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And yes, everything is relative to having an experience of it, no matter who is the experiencer and what levels/layers of awareness they are open to. In my time I came to the conclusion that the only thing to prevent you from experiencing anything you choose, is what you beleive about it and how much energy/higher vibration you can tune up to.

Interesting..................Perhaps I will have to look into this further myself in my own investigations of the astral.  Can't seem to go far though, I always get pulled back into my body almost immediately. grrrrr.

In reply to your post, Yes i beleive that the astral planes are physical, but NON-spatial. there is a diffrence.
~Z?~

Indeed, like to other guy said, its not like you can land a space ship on them.

But then again, thats probably what astral inhabitants would say of earth. Conclusion? Spaceships are relative  

Hmmm maybe we need to update our perception of what "space" actually is. (not outer space, but distance and dimension)  uggh, this is talking a toll on my brain.......

Was skull rock 'real'? I haven't been there myself. What is 'real'? In 5D if you imagine it, then it is 'real'. Beings can choose to experience your reality or not. If none choose to experience it with you, that doesn't make it any less real. In 4D you get similiar effects, but have to deal with time, however slow or fast it flows. 6D and beyond is beyond the scope of your original post.

Huh? Right now you are making no sense whatsoever. It sounds to me like new age garble rather than experience, whats with all the D's? what kind of dimensional theory is that?

Look as far I know, there are 7 planes so far, according to mystics, each with a corresponding body.  My focus is on the second (astral), hopefully to gain a better understading of its nature. I have projected, but i have'nt been beyond the real-time zone, however my obe's are extremely clear and I can distringuish them from dream 1000's times clearer and better and no doubt it's the same with RB.  So hence I am looking for input from experiencedastral projectors regarding their thoughts on this subject.

From what I've studied, it seems astral worlds are actual living environments, similar to earth, in such enviroments there has to be a certain level of stability and objectivity inherent to the inhabitors of these worlds, in other words, relatively speaking they are physical.

What exactly is your question?

What Im saying is that the description of which we call "physical" might be an entirely relative thing depending on your position in the planes and vibration.  Here on rearth, revolving around a sun, in these bodies, we think we are "physical" however the inhibitants of skull rock and other astral realms might perceive themselves to be just as "physical" as we are. I need real input from experienced astral travelers here, not just conjecture, I want to see what they have to say on this subject based on their experiences.

Interesting, I was just thinking, well, reading a passage in RB's astral dynamics in which he said he visited a realm called "skull rock".  In it he described seeing lving things (fish, sharks, other wildlife etc)  He described seeing a boat with sails like batwings (is that right?) and humanoid mediteranean-looking sailors/fishermen, all in an apparently solid world.  What interested and struck me the most was that he saw a "sun" like in our world.  The presence of a sun, rather than some natural artificial backlight made me think...what if these "astral" wolrds are actually solid worlds, real places?  

Notice how even our world in the real-time zone is shifty and malleable (you can move through walls etc.)  Maybe solidity is relative? Maybe there is no real definite "physical" universe "at the bottom" like many believe. Maybe the "astral" world is so changeable because we travel to it in our astral bodies and not their equivalent of a physical body?  If this is true it has interesting implications which I can't fathom right now.

Any thoughts or input?

   Let me tell you, for me it is quite difficult to reach OBE, I've only reached partial separation, so I'm looking for ways in which I can better improve my chances.  One thing is consistent: My will and mental energy always weakens towards the end, when I am reaching success and I come out of trance.  Could it be subconcious? I think I have some fears, wheher it be of the unknown or something unclear I just run out of juice before I reach it.  Like, I always have this thing, right when I reach the separation point, that I can't go any further anymore, like my astral body won't go any further, and it keeps me from success.  This can get extremely frustrating......I don't know what else to say.......Any help?

        I found a great site dealing with dimensional theory http://www.crystalinks.com/portals.html, it provides a decent theoretical foundation for it's premises.

     I've always speculated opon the plausibility of alternate universes/realities/dimensions.  The subject has just fascinated me.  There could be infnite "me's" in other planes, playing out every possible outcome like it was an algebraic equation.  If humans somehow discovered how to warp from one dimensional realities to another, we could expand our population and exploit the resources of such worlds indefinitly.  Such a discovery would be the most important in human history.  It would produce for us boundless wealth and oppotunity, we could line every street in the world with gold if we so desired.  The opportunities are so unfathomably huge, I don't even think I can sufficiently imagine them.

     This is why I am on a quest of sorts.  Robert Bruce and many other's have related their experiences of other planes and worlds while in astral form, travelling out-of-body.  I will henceforth, continuously develope and train my energy body systems, to manipulate ever more larger amounts of energy.  Perhaps a massive expenditure of concentrated energy would be enough to rip a hole in space-time and travel to other dimensional localities physically? I am 95%, this or something like it, is exactly what will happen. I must keep researching and training..........

       Whilst pondering on the many questions surrounding life and it's issues, I thought it be relevant to post my findings, and how they seem to eerily resonate with observable truth.

       Frist of all I would like to say hello and introduce myself. I am a semi-novice energy practitioner and self-styled student of Robert bruce's "NEW" energy system. I bought his book a year ago, and his theories and experiences just astounded me.  What did it the most was his energy system, which extremely effective for me.  So far I have not been able to atral project, but have been very close on numerous occasions, each occassion ending abruptly because of my fear.  I hope I will one day get rid of it and finnaly leave my body, untill then I'll just train.

    Well anyway, as I began this topic I was thinking about the not-so-easy topic of existence and it's meaning.  I came up with this procession of logic.

1)We exist (sense our surroundings in every way we can, think, memorize etc.)
2)Everything seems to be transformed energy (matter is energy)and energy cannot be either created nor destroyed.
3)"Non-existence" by it's very definition "does not exist" so there is no such thing as non-existence, existence exists because there is nothing else.
4)In other words there is no cause or pretext for existence, existence is because it is the opposite of non-existence, whcih does not exist.
5) since there is no cause or pretext for existence, existence (or energy) is infinite, there is no end to existence, it is the fabric of reality, we have therefore, always existed, in one form or another


Whew![xx(][:I] There! "the mystery of life" [][^] was really not a mystery at all....it's just scary wehn you think about it though.

Any questions or input?

quote:Originally posted by TradeMAAK

The same with me! I've been trying this for some 4 days or so. I have no fears but still when I start to feel my astral body I try to get it seperated with different techniques, but it just doesn't want to leave. When I get very, very close, my eyes start to open and I must concentrate on closing them, which is hard because they just want to open themselves. I am relaxed or at least I think so, but when I get too relaxed and don't think about anything many thoughts start to run around my mind. Maybe I should try a different approach? What do you think about this problem?

Dude! It's hard is'nt it!  I really don't thinbk it is fear so much as it is just simple lack of PURE concentration.  You really need to concentrate to reach OBE. Seriously, but those thoughts just won't leave me alone.  Im going to try it again, and this time concentrate to the fullest extent untill I run out of mental juice.

quote: I have also wondered about this, however there is one major problem. The laws of physics may be different in these alternate universes, thus if you were to enter it physically you may cease to exist. I actually had a book on this subject so i'll see what else I can discover.

 Hmmm yes, that could be a problem. But, on the other side of the coin it could be the greatest discovery and opportunity ever found by humanity. Greater than the discovery of space and the galaxies. Infinitely greater than that. I guess the only way to avoid that scenario is good old trial and error. Perhaps sending a robotic device of some sort through the portal/door/whatever and so it could come back with info? If it did'nt come back we'd know what happened to it.........

quote:Originally posted by beavis

A polititian who isnt stupid or an pillow-biter does not exist. The nonexistance of such a polititian is a fact, and facts exist.

Whats a "polititian"?  LOL your post here makes absolutely no sense to me? Can you be more clear as to what you are trying to convey? Do you know how to open up a sentence for a response? To spellcheck? Even if you were trying to mock me, or poke an argumentative hole in my last post, nobody would be able to laugh because first they don't even know what your saying.