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Details below. Note this is a UK radio station, however if you go to the programme link below you can find details on how to listen on-line.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/whatson/prog_parse.cgi?FILENAME=20040126/20040126_2030_49700_7423_30

After Death, What? Mon 26 Jan, 20:30 - 21:00  30 mins            
Bright lights, tunnels, meetings with dead relatives, life reviews are features of near death experiences. In this programme we hear the stories of those who have had these experiences and from scientists and theologians undertaking new research to understand this strange phenomena.

Cheers

Math

In his book Astral Dynamics Robert Bruce talks about 3 different levels of trance; light, full and deep. He also gives detailed descriptions of how each of these levels of consciousness feels (p223-226).

Is anyone aware of how these might, if at all, correspond to the various Monroe Focus Levels. e.g. perhaps light trance is like F3 etc.

Thanks

Math

In the last month or so I've managed a few projections from dreams into my bedroom in the RTZ (although twice I've noticed some dream imagery inteferring with a view of what I know is really my bedroom).

Anyway, on each occassion I've tried to leave my room by travelling through the wall but always get stuck in it. It feels like I'm trying to swim through treacle and everything gets darker/fuzzier and then I end up back in my body [].

Has anyone else experienced anything similar or have any idea what I can do to get out of my house? I'd really like to be able to get outside and fly around.

Cheers

Math

Hi I posed a question in another thread "is mind split theory right???". However I would like to restate it here in its own thread as it seems kinda seperate and I still have questions about it.

quote: Math wrote:
Hope you don't mind if I chip in with something else here which has been confusing me for a little while...

Does the mind split theory mean that you could be attempt a conscious OBE and succeed but have you waking consiousness stuck in your physical body. Implying your ethereal body is wondering around doing stuff you don't know about while you are busy still trying to project. Then when your ethereal body returns it may or may not download its memory. If it fails then you never remember the projection. But if it does what happens to your original memory?"

quote:Huwie replied
Yes, Bruce says that that exact situation can occur when attempting to project. He says that you can successfully project your astral body but fail to move your consciousness into it. This will leave you paralysed inside your physical body until such a time that your astral body chooses to return to it. At that point, depending on the success or failure of 'downloading' shadow memories, you may or may not receive all the memories of what you were up to during the projection

Thanks for your reply Huwie. Now I wonder can anyone tell me if being left paralysed is (i) the proper full body paralysis where it takes superhuman effort to move or (ii) the my body is numb and I seem to have lost touch with it paraylsis.

I've managed to project a few times for brief moments from lucid dreams and now I am trying for fully conscious exit. I would hate to think I'm   lying there trying to project when I already have but don't know it!

Thanks

Math

Hi

I've been working through the excellent 90 day Astral Dynamics Workbook, I'm only on day 28 but have also been trying some exit techniques.

Up to now the nearest I've got to any sense of vibrations is a gentle oscillating, a bit faster than rocking. However a few nights ago I "woke up" while I was still asleep. I then started to experience intense vibrations\buzzing - kind of like a washing machine on its spin cylcle. I found I could then push myself out of my body and I started to glide towards the window for just a few moments before springing back to my body.

The whole experience seemed fuzzy and dream like, not a "vividly real" experience that many others talk about. Also the vibrations were more of a buzzing than well, vibrations.

Are these the vibrations that others experience or was it all just a dream?

Thanks in advance

Math

Thanks AstralAdam.

Maybe focus is something I have overlooked in the past. I shall certainly try it.

Math

quote:Are you going to stick to Discovery 1 until you've mastered it then?

I don't know about mastered it, but I will stay with until I become familiar with the state of consciousness induced.

I am finding focus 3 to be deeper than I had envisioned. I find my senses shut down to a large degree, although not to the point where I loose sight of my body altogther. I find myself envloped in blackness with occassional swirls of colour. I also get the sense that I am on the edge of floating within the blackness. I suppose I could be slipping past focus 3?

Anyway I'm looking forward to focus 10 [].

Cheers
Math

It seems very good. So far I have listened/participated in Discovery #1 (track 1 cd 1). This takes you from waking consciousness to Focus 3. It also introduces the concept of an "Energy Conversion Box" into which you place worries/concerns etc. and an "Resonant Tuning" excercise.

I *think* I recognise Focus 3 as being the state I can usually get to by myself when I'm wide awake and do meditiation/trance state practice. This again confirms that I need to go further to be able to induce an OBE. The only way, up to now, I have been able to get further is by entering a sleep cycle and "snapping back", which is a very hit and miss affair to say the least.

I have read that some people find Robert Monroe's voice "gets in the way" i.e. They are really getting into a particular focus state when his voice cuts in saying something. So far I have found the guided voice to be very helpful. There is one point where it does "make me jump", but that's at the end of the exercise when it's time to come back to waking consciousness. I think the important point is, as many other people have iterated, that the CDs are intended to provide training to enable you to get to a particular state of consciousness. Once you have enough experience with the CD you can then get there by yourself.

Anyway, one other thing worth mentioning is that this appears to be much more effective for me than my homemade focus 3 CD (made using sbagen).

Cheers

Math

Order arrived this morning as promised. []

Math

There is a page here http://www.astralpulse.com/locale/ with info and a picture.

Cheers

Math

OK, spurred on by reading one of Robert Monroe's books I decided to order from this site myself today. Ordered Wave I by phone and spoke to a very nice lady called Ruth. They have a special offer on at the moment which meant I could also get a mindfood/metamusic etc. CD for free []

I was told order should arrive by Thursday - Can't wait.

Math

Hi Huwie

Have you looked at http://www.relax-uk.com/.

I was thinking about the gateway experience just before Christmas when I come across this site. I must admit I don't know anything about the company and was a little nervous of ordering from them. So I ended up making my own CDs using sbagen (free and comes with presets for f3 - f27)

If you decide to order I would be interested to know how you get on.

Cheers

Math

Thanks Jeff

Sorry the question was a bit vague - your answer was good []

quote:There is just this 'knowing' feeling that comes along with this state of mind, where you KNOW that you can have an OBE at that moment.

Yes during my few successful OBEs I just knew I could exit.

quote:Once we get to this position, we can usually allow ourselves to LET GO a little bit, allow that forward momentum to continue, and then snap our consciousness back into place as an OBE is taking place.

The bowling ball analogy is very helpful - I relate to the letting go and snapping back but until now had never identified it as part of the process. Thanks Jeff this has really helped me.

Hi chupacabra

quote: I'm wide awake and then catch myself right before i fall asleep which jolts me into awakedness, not very smooth.

I getting to know that feeling well. lol.

Math

Hi Jeff

I've been thinking very carefully about your post (thanks for your last reply), particularly as I'm just about to start trance work in my 90 day Astral Dynamics (AD) programme. The question I have been asking myself is what exactly is the trance state and has my idea of what it is been wrong. I think your post has provided the answer for me []

Image this scenario of someone trying to fall asleep []
"I must get to sleep, relax a little. Am I aware of being awake in by bed? I know I'm in my bed but it doesn't feel like it, maybe I'm asleep - no not yet. I just saw an image was that a dream? Maybe I'm dreaming now, no I'm still awake...relax more..."

This is clearly ridiculous, but my attempts at trance work have been a little like this.

What you seem to be suggesting is that the trance state is in fact *falling asleep proper* (not just body) while maintaining some level of awareness. Robert Bruce in AD talks about keeping your surface mind clear, so instead of getting lost in meaningless images and ramblings (as often happens when falling asleep) you can maintain a clear mind and remain aware (NOT awake).

Now if this is the case and the trance state is asleep but aware then... because you are asleep, but not dreaming in the normal sense of the word, you percieve (not see with your eyes) what people often refer to as an astral screen that displays swirling colours and lights. I think this point is very important. i.e. The astral screen replaces what would be under normal circumstances be a dream/dream imagery. This also explains how dream imagery can intrude into your view of the RTZ. It is in this state that phasing/projection is possible.

This appears to be backed up by my own limited experience. I have managed to project twice from from a semi-aware state (both projections were very short as I got stuck in my bedroom wall). On each of these occassions I had been trying to project from what I thought was the trance state but gave up. I then rolled over to fall asleep but then on the very borderline of entering a dream I just stepped out of my body - I didn't use the rope technique or experience buzzing/vibrations I was just very easily able to step out.

Would you agree with this?

Cheers
Math

Thanks for that post Jeff []

The part about "your eyes must be asleep" really does make sense to me. However I'm not so clear on the body not asleep part.

Is what you are suggesting an alternative way of getting into the trance state? i.e. let yourself fall asleep but in a way that allows you to keep a strong intent/thread of consciousness going that allows you to "jump out" when you get deep enough.

If I try that at the beginning of the night I find I'm fighting a loosing battle as all I want to do sleep zzzzz.

However I have met with limited success very early in the morning (5ish), when I find it much easier to maintain my focus []

Math

Thanks Hypnotist

I assume the levels Robert Bruce talks about correspond to Light to  Somnambulistic.

Are you familiar with the Monroe Focus levels? These focus less on physical body symptoms and more on internal states of consciousness.

e.g. "Focus 10 is a level in which your mind remains awake and alert while your body sleeps calmly and comfortably"

I think astral phasing can happen at Focus 21?

Math

Hi Alpine9

Check out these links

(1) A free (open source) generator - http://uazu.net/sbagen/
(2) A shareware generator - http://www.bwgen.com/.

You can also buy CDs

(3) Monroe institute http://www.hemi-sync.com/shop/customer/home.php

Finally check out the sticky topic "Free Holosync® alternative available for download" just above []

Hope this helps

Math

Thanks, it looks great. I'll try visualising it during some of my mind taming exercises.

Thanks everyone, I guess multiple failures to get through the wall only reinforces my belief that I can't get through it.

As suggested I think I might try and (1) improve my awareness before blindly trying to get through the wall (2) focus on arriving on the other side of the wall, rather than on the wall itself (3)try some affirmations to re-program my doubts.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm usually not completely conscious when this happens kind of asleep but awake at the same time - its difficult to describe. In order to remember to do something other than try to get outside I think I might need to work on re-programming my intention. I think this might be a good idea.

Your post implies that I am getting stuck because my vibrationary rate is  not high enough, is this right? I was under the impression that I should be able to pass through physical matter in the RTZ?

Hi guys I just started reading this topic sounds great. Can someone point me in the right direction of the definitive picture for API? I think I read somewhere there was a web page devoted to it?

Thanks

Math

Thanks Jeff that really helps []

quote:I say "pre-OBE vibes" because some of you think that the pulsating feeling you notice while relaxing is a mild form of the vibes

I had wondered if that feeling was the vibes - I did doubt it as they seemed too mild and relatively easy to induce.

quote:I believe those who're too focused on the physical will feel these vibrations, because they are still focusing on their body, and using their body as a benchmark for their OBE progress....when you really should be using your mind as a benchmark for your OBE progress.

This confirms my experience that I get nearest when I let go and forget my physical body - I shall focus more on this, mind taming and not falling asleep and less on whether I feel vibrations/paralysis etc.

Math

No stranger than being able to travel to other dimensions []

Can you tell me if the full paralysis comes on

(1) a long time before the vibrations?
(2) just before the vibrations?
(3) After the vibrations?

I seem to have little difficulty getting into a trance but find I have not been able to project - although I have experienced thumping heart and yesterday strange smells (garlic or onions I think).

When I first started the rope technique I found my arms tensing - I've managed to keep them relaxed now but every now and then I, especially when I imagine myself leaving I get a kind of quick wave of tension in my torso.

I think I get nearest when I let my mind go and drift to the borders of sleep. Its after doing this that I sometimes get the brief projections into the RTZ from a dream.

Math

Hi

Hope you don't mind if I chip in with something else here which has been confusing me for a little while...

Does the mind split theory mean that you could be attempt a conscious OBE and succeed but have you waking consiousness stuck in your physical body. Implying your ethereal body is wondering around doing stuff you don't know about while you are busy still trying to project. Then when your ethereal body returns it may or may not download its memory. If it fails then you never remember the projection. But if it does what happens to your original memory?

Hope that makes sense

Math