Messages

Reply to Omcasey

Yes your clarification does help, again it seems we were talking about to different things, and I now know what you were talking about.

In trying to understand, I believe I haven't left the barrel only come closer to the top. Distractions lead me to hesitate leaving the barrel, instead I dip back down. Each time getting closer to exiting the top but never fully committed.

"In the thick of it, a helpful torque is created by asking ourself "what am I fighting?" and "what do I want?""

Well some of my hesitation could be contributed to not having answers to the two questions posed. If I were to try to give any answer right now I would probably be making it up and lying to myself.

This is my reply to your comments on the post. Id like to start by saying thank you for your input, and please be patient with me as I have a hard time not just writing, but discerning meaning from the written word. In all honesty I had to have my mother go over some of your comments just to help me understand what was trying to be conveyed.

Reply to Interception

Yes many friendships can be lost due to introverted behavior. From what I gather introversion will be a common theme on this site.

"Outside this "ship" there is just nothing. Not empty space, nothing at all. Like when you fold 3D space down into 2D and again into 1D... then fold it again into "zero D". It it uncomfortable to focus on this. It is outside this vessel as much as something like that can be said to be anywhere.
I then try to bring this emptiness inside me, unsuccessfully. It is very hard to describe. It is also rather uncomfortable to try to do. It does bring with it a kind of loneliness that I have not found anywhere else." This description is extremely accurate to what I was attempting to describe. If your trying to bring that feeling in and failing to do so the "ship" may be to blame. Its hard to breath in a lung full of water if your in a submarine. Keep in mind that the ship might be there for a good reason.

Reply to Omcasey

Your comment was extremely insightful

"I experience it as an embodied yet utterly open consciousness/system" I believe based on what your describing that not only are you more in tune then me, but may also be describing a void internally separate form the one I describe, or simply bringing/creating aspects in to the void you are creating. Possibilities are numerous. The void i describe is one of my own creation, and not "the Void" as many talk of, I have been to both, and can tell that my personal void is created by me without outside interference. In that regarded it lacks or blocks the utterly open consciousness/system you describe. I do agree that altho it is not something that is truly scary, the human instinct in me finds my personal void very disturbing. After all no mater our level of introversion humans at our core are pack animals, and separation from the pack=consciousness/system triggers fear.

Your analogy with the barrel took me some time to understand. I believe your describing the rabbit hole, jumping in can bring a system shock allowing insight and new ideas but staying to long leads to a spiral down to the bottom, and any insight gained unusable.

I have spent much of my early life at the bottom of the barrel nearly falling throw. Not in till my late teens did I realize i was there, and started climbing out the top. Since then I have made several trips back down in to the barrel, simply to try and find usable insight, but with each attempt finding less and less reason to do it again. In honesty I haven't really looked around out side of the barrel, due to being still fixated on the point of why I was in there to begin with. That fixation is slowly fading and I am sure it will dissipate and allow be to move on, but its a slow process, I have a hard time letting things go sometimes.

"May I ask? - your post takes us into your late teens, what is your age now? approximately.
Where are we in your story?"
The post isn't really in to much of order, scatted brained ranting more like, comes form my inexperience writing. I'm now in my mid 20s and find only the last little bit of the post to be recent development.

Reply to Karxx Gxx

"I can say that I grasp enough of this... ...scent of what you immerse in yourself."
This is very accurate to what I first experienced before moving it into LDs were I excel in control, and creating my artificial void. If your trying to create a personal void for what ever reason I recommend moving it to a media you are more comfortable or have more control. Keep in mind that I could of used my artificial void for a number of things other then what I describe.

"The only criticism I would say is you can always go more extreme."
"It is neat that you go to extremes to feel better about life. To be the devils advocate,"
"One day it wont work,"
Yes, Yes, and Yes.

I have gone to extremes, you say "your extreme would probably simply being with other people. You cant tolerate them, or feel some uncomfortableness with them. You should look into that at the least. Or imagine being with people."
I do this quite often I didn't bring it up as it has no relation to the artificial void I talked about. Often times in my LDs I create uncomfortable scenarios in order to deal or at lest desensitize myself to them. Public speaking, social awkwardness, stress. I have to much anxiety as person and negative visualization is a great help at dealing with my issues, also its a trade mark tactic of Stoicism .

Yes sometimes It doesn't work, humans are meant to have a scope of emotions, and having to little, or to wide of a scope, makes you feel less human.
Ive often experienced such extremes of both negative and positive energy that they just seem muted. That's a tell tell sing for me that Ive gone to far, and am losing my grip on understanding the emotions, a case of to much information that can't be processed. The solution is to back out of it and find a neutral ground, before trying to push further.

"big sign that you are finding out who you are" I agree, tho I feel life is more about making your self then finding it.

Reply to Bob_the_floater

I've had my run ins with MJ and worse tho now a days coffee and cigarettes are crutch.
Most of my true friends are my friends because of my lake of filter, I can be a weird mix of abrasive and comforting.

Reply to LightBeam

I believe your more a tune then me, but I understand what your describing I have the same experiences to a lesser degree. Not a complete introvert I have my joys in extroversion as well and often seek that contention, but then strive to get away latter. I'm at both far ends of the spectrum at different times.
"There is no wrong and right. There is only the necessity of learning." I agree

Hopefully that covers everything, anymore comments or questions are welcome.

I'll be posting hopefully in the next couple of days about a unusual experiences I've had reluctantly-not a spelling mistake.

Nomennescio out

Lets start with a question. How often in your LDs, or other experiences, are you alone?

I mean really alone no imaginations of people, no guides looking over your shoulder. Absolutely and totally alone, to the point that if you had a mental breakdown no one, nothing would hear or react to you. You would be left with only yourself to find comfort. Existence in a void, something impossible in reality, but possible in LD. Now what if anything should you feel? Should there be fear, anxiety. Most people don't want to be alone, yes we may chose to be away from people at times but that's not alone. Very rarely is someone alone to the point that they could not reach out and chose to not be alone. I'm talking about lost in the mountains, stranded on a dessert island alone, just without the mountains or the island. To a point that reaching out is hopeless, no communication and nothing to interact with.

You may simply think, yeah I do that all the time its called meditation, well that's closer to what I'm talking about. Tho meditation is a walk in the woods, compared to the feeling of lost I am trying to relay here. I often LD being alone to this extreme degree, and every time I begin to enter this void, I feel my body moving uncomfortably, and breathing heavy like its about to hyperventilate. It's scary, and very uncomfortable, so why do it. When I finally sink in to that feeling of emptiness, it's a controlled space. There is nothing there no thoughts, no emotions, The fear of entering leaves. This void is scary because is feels as if once you go there you can't return, like leaving all of your belongings on the beach and trying to swim to the bottom of the ocean.

There is something comforting once your there tho, it's probably the closet's thing to a none experience as you can get. In a world wear we are bombarded with things we should do, people we should talk to, stuff we need to buy, videos we need to watch, and this constant idea that we need to seek comfort in all things. I find it necessary to seek this extreme form of meditation. To seek discomfort and fear, to find a sense of hopelessness and despair, It brings a contrast that is sorely lacking in my life. And well "Things don't have to be constantly happening to remind you of being alive." - some guy.

When I reached around 5th grade depression hit me hard, around 10th grade I started showing sings of my mental illness, something I won't go in to detail right now. The age of 17 I was extremely manic. Taking off from home to skate board, 3 days latter I ended up in panama city, 2 days latter being detained by state patrol for skating on a interstate. Until my little trip I never truly felt alive, it took freezing nights sleeping under a bridge with my legs cramping up. Thing I would pass out and not wake up, to bring contrast to my life. It was a wake up call, but I didn't get the message. At 18 living in NC I left after a drunken party went south, 8 days throw Christmas I skated to Knoxville TN. Dying of cold and exhaustion, I finally realized why I felt this call to destruction. My years living in lucid dreams, fulfilling my every whim of my young imagination had left me numb to life. How can reality compete with something so amazing.

After a few more years of struggling with life I found a better way to give my life contrast, instead of giving myself life threatening system shocks. I began using lucid dreams to provide contrast. After all if I can make life boring by dreaming a better one, then I can make life amazing by living out awful experiences in my dreams. I found bring myself in to a state of fear, loneliness and hopelessness, drastically improved the quality of my waking life. After all water can be sweet when compared to a lemon. Nowadays I use this void as a reference point for life, I sink in to the most uncomfortable and painful feelings I can imagine. By compression making a life I was numb to, feel like a blessing.

It wasn't until latter that I found a school of thought that aliened with this idea, Stoicism. Remembering that it could always be worse, and that even tho suicide is always a option, it is better to have a poor existence then no existence. That's how I personally tend to sum it up, of course there's much more to it then that. Not trying to control external forces instead controlling your reaction to it. Finding reminders that most of what we pursues is not necessary for a good life. Often times I find myself sleeping on the floor without even a pillow to remind myself how comfy my bed is. Many might say I push my mental state a little hard doing this, but I unsure you how ever bleak and unhealthy my habits may seem it is very necessary.

All this brings me back to artificial loneliness, aka my little personal void. I have found in the last year or so that I am beginning to enjoy discomfort and loneliness. I find myself thinking about living in the woods for extended amounts of time without interaction, and being perfectly content. I personally believe that all the crazy going on the world is driving me to seek isolation. Most of my friends have gone bonkers, and I find myself detesting them. There are very few people I can tolerate the company of anymore. I'm slipping in to my void during LDs more and more. Not to find contrast but to just be alone, Truly alone. I feel as tho the space I used to mentally train my emotions is now become my safe haven.

In all honesty I don't know were I was going with all of this, I don't wright out my thoughts much, so I guess this is more of a rant. I am interested to see if there are any parallels between our experiences. Feel free to pick apart my post and give criticism, I'm thick skinned, and prefer honest contrast to soothsaying. I imagine many of you will have points of views I haven't thought of, or considered on my use of LD, and I'd love to hear them. 

Anyway Nommennescio out

Hi LightBeam and EscapeVelocity, nice to meet y'all. Also Hi mom.

LightBeam, Yeah free vacations are great but additive, in my personal experiences it takes to much joy out of realty. Course not saying LDing is bad, just that moderation is key to maintaining a healthy happy life.

EscapeVelocity, as far as my earliest experiences most are long lost in the files. I'd have better luck trying to recall the first time I went to sleep and not hand a experience. With didn't be come notable till around 9. Tho I do plan on sharing some of my more interesting LDs and other experiences so just keep a look out.

Hi Nomennescio here, figured I'd hop on this form to see what all the fuss is about. Before I start I'd just like to state that I'm rather dysiclix dislixic dislexic, ... I think they made that word hard to spell on porpoise. Anyway please forgive bad spelling and horrific grammar.

I've heard all kinds of things about astral projection. I'd like to calm I have a scene of it, even if I don't know all the terminology. I don't really talk to much about my astral experiences with others. Granted I don't often have astral experiences anymore, I've intentionally put a damper on that. However Lucid dreaming seems to be my specialty, despite having tried to damper that as well.

To put it simply I was addicted to astral, out of body, day dreaming, and especially lucid dreaming as a kid, anything that let me escape reality. Took years to kick the habit, but still have trouble not lucid dreaming. I've managed to make due with it, so not really looking for help or anything, just giving background to my experiences. What I'm hoping to get out of this forum is just communication with others on the same subject, I've hit the limits of what I can do without outside interference. Hopefully this forum can stir up some new possibility.