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hmmmm I dont think its the same.
Extacy gives you a mass rush of euphoria but its more like a cloudy, wasted euphoria...
AP is more leveled euphoria and you feel clear headed along with it, there is a certain purity that you just cant find anywhere else. (IMO)

Id rather AP

Nobody's talking about extacy, we're talking about acid and DMT. Extacy is not a hallucinogen.


As for the main topic, here's my 2 cents, but I'm certainly no expert:

There's a theory that before there was any physical matter or energy there was basically a pool of consciousness. Not an intelligent god-like being who decided to create the universe, but a pool of unphysical being and knowing and feeling. The physical universe, for whatever reason (my aunt thinks the reason is so the consciousness could learn to love itself), then began to create itself from that pool. So billions of years later, as life began to evolve on earth, natural selection gave most animals the ability t harness this consciousness into an individual being/personality. This is done by our brains and nervous systems. Without our brains, we are not unconscious, we are just free-flowing consciousness that the cosmos is filled with.

I smoke a fair amount of pot. For a while, I think I was smoking too much for someone who didn't yet have much experience, and it started fogging up my thinking and perception of reality. Pot isn't really a hallucinogen, it just makes things seem a bit different, and I was interested in trying something to make me trip. So I tried 10x salvia (which is a hallucinogen stronger than lsd) and had a BAD trip. After that, I didn't smoke pot for a while, and as my mind cleared I began to realize that all drugs do, even pot and alcohol, is destroy your mind. Literally, they don't sprinkle fairy dust on your brain and then all the bad effects are "side effects," destroying your physical brain is literally how drugs work, its just about all they do. So I limited my pot smoking and swore off hallucinogens and anything stronger than pot.

Later though, I began to get curious about LSD. It seemed appealing to me that I could trip like I did on salvia, but also walk around, go to a concert, or whatever it is I want to do at the same time. When you smoke salvia you just lay down and trip for about 15 minutes then feel high for a few more minutes. When you do acid you can at least sort of function, but crazy things happen like your senses can switch (you see sounds and taste sights, etc.). But, since I came to the conclusion that destroying your brain isn't beneficial, I stayed away from it.

Later, I heard of the theory of the pool of consciousness I talked about, and came to a new conclusion. While you destroy your brain, you destroy what separates your tiny bit of consciousness from a mass pool of consciousness. You destroy your cage. You destroy what makes you an individual. There is a time and a place to be a physical individual, and there is a time and a place to run free and wild. Lessons are learned from all experiences. With this information, I decided that I'm going to try LSD as soon as I can get a hold of it.

As for the risks, the main risk of using any psychedelic drug is having a bad trip. If you do, its just an experience, and learn from it like any other. It WILL scare the excrement out of you and you will pretty much want to die in that moment, but all feelings and all thoughts are here to learn from. You are still exploring your consciousness. Bad trips still mean something, so if you have one, just analyze what happened once you're sober and see what you could learn from it.

The other risk is a big one. You don't have to worry about trying stronger hallucinogens (except maybe DMT, that sounds sketchy to me for reasons I'll explain later). What you have to worry about is people pushing "euphoric" drugs on you. Heroine (and all opiates), cocaine, and meth are all physically addictive and dangerous. And I want to make it clear that a PHYSICAL addiction isn't something mental power simply prevents, a physical addiction is when your BODY physically needs the drug to function properly. Cigarettes and alcohol are also dangerously addictive in that way. Don't even try these drugs that promise euphoria, they aren't worth it, and if you happen to play around with psychedelics you're likely to end up in the type of group where one person, a friend of a friend or something, is addicted to something and wants someone to share their pain, so they'll try hard to convince you.

And here's the DMT paragraph. DMT is naturally produced in your brain in order to make yourself dream. Other chemicals naturally produced in the brain include dopamine, seratonin, and melatonin, chemicals to regulate happiness and sleep. Funny thing is, having a crapload of one of these in you isn't necessarily a good thing. Too much dopamine causes your dopamine receptors to grow, so those receptors need more dopamine for the same effect. After using LSD, most people have more seratonin than before, which is a good thing, but if they do too much too often, their receptors will grow. This is how drugs can effect your brain, even "harmless" drugs like pot and alcohol. So how does DMT effect brain chemistry? Although much less research has been done on DMT than any of these other drugs, I can make some assumptions based on what I know. Smoking synthetic DMT often may cause your receptors for DMT to grow. Since DMT is the chemical for dreaming, it may take more and more of your brain's DMT to be able to dream if your receptors grow. This means you risk temporarily losing the ability to dream. I also hear that DMT can be psychologically addictive. The difference between psychological and physical addictions are that you don't need to feed your psychological addiction in order for your body to function. In a psychological addiction, you just constantly think "I want this drug..."

There's a theory that your dreams take place in the astral world, which would mean that lucid dreaming is effectively a type of astral projection. This would also mean that using DMT can bring you to the astral world, because DMT is the chemical that causes you to dream. This theory isn't very widely supported though. There is some interesting evidence I've seen, one example being a personal experience in which a friend and I saw each other in a dream, and the next day talked about it. If our dreams happen in our own minds, this would be highly unlikely. So if you want to try DMT and decide for yourself if the place it brings you is the "astral" world, feel free, as long as you keep the risks in mind. A bad trip can also occur on DMT and can be MUCH more intense than other hallucinogens. DMT is the strongest hallucinogen I'm aware of. I would suggest lucid dreaming as an alternative, not only is it safer, but it is actually fairly easy, despite popular belief. Most people don't realize that there are some pretty simple methods to lucid dream. Check out the youtube channel "GizE," he has loads of good videos on step-by-step lucid dreaming, VERY clearly explained.

OBEs on the other hand can be very difficult to achieve. I don't know of many simple, clear step-by-step explanations in any books or on the web.

As for how the actual experiences compare, I'd listen to what ShaMagus has to say; he's tried these drugs and I haven't.

I listened to a binaural beat practically guaranteed to cause astral projection. I relaxed myself to the extreme as if I was about to try to project as usual, then listened to the 30 minute beat. It didn't cause projection, but when I got up I felt like I was high...REALLY high...For a couple minutes. It was pretty weird.

So it didn't work the way it was supposed to, but it was a free one on youtube. I found some elsewhere on the internet guaranteed to cause astral projection in minutes, somewhere around 20$ for an mp3 download. Is this a rip-off, or do you think this can really work? I'd prefer an answer from someone who's tried this. Thanks!

Being eager and insanely excited about the possibility of astral projection, I need the book that'll get me there the quickest. Please don't misinterpret this as me being impatient enough to sacrifice the quality of my education on the subject. I'll go through each step as carefully as possible, I just need to know that the steps are effective enough to be worth the time and effort. I don't need any books filled with persuasive essays for skeptics, or the science of it, or any of that, all that can be saved for after I've finally had my own OBE.

Thanks for any help

I have said this in many posts before and I'll say it here again. Stop trying to project from your bed, you train yourself your entire life that bed is for sleeping. Try projecting from a comfortable chair and you will have results.

really? i never thought about that. thanks!

I'd like to open up my chakras, but I have no idea where to sart. How do I know which of my chakras are closed or open? Is there a chart somewhere on the internet of the characteristics of each chakra?

Last night I tried for a couple hours at least before falling asleep, then woke up a few time and tried again each time. This moning when I woke up I spent another couple hours trying to project. Each try involved the "rope method" but some were less focused on the actual rope than others. The first thing I tied was the suggestion of putting my thoughts into the little metal box...I did find myself concentrating more on the rope an on getting out of my body, but I don't think I got very far. I felt my body starting to fall asleep and my mind staying awake, but couldn't keep that going very long before losing focus and snappin out of it. Then for the next hou or so I tried letting my thoughts run wild, which I think got me farther. The only problem was that every 10 minutes or so a thought would ceep in that I felt I needed to elaborate on, and I'd lose focus and just stay on that train of thought until I frgot I was even trying to project. Eventually I fell asleep. I don't remember my dreams last night, but I sort of remember having the slight suspicion that I might be dreaming...But I wasn't fully aware. I feel like if I had tried jumping in my dream to prove to myself whether or not I was awake, I would've began to fly and realized I was dreaming, and it would become a lucid dream. Unfortunately I wasn't conscious enough to think of trying that...I woke up a few times duing the night and continued the rope method combined with letting my thoughts go free, and I didn't have the same trouble with focusing as I did befoe, but I would get frustrated at the time it was taking to see results, and obviously I kept falling asleep. This morning I tried again for a few hours and I just couldn't keep going, eventually I had to stop because it was just taking so long. Does it always take hous to get out, even for experienced astral travelers?

I'll try some music tonight, but the problem I see with that is that I'm a musician, and I might spend all night trying to analyze what I'm hearing.

Truthfully you don't need to shut those thoughts up. There are a number of times I have been going through things in my mind and the next thing I know I am in the Astral. When you are focused on anything besides the physical you will phase. If your mind is full of thoughts, let them consume you so much that you let go of all physical awareness. You will all of a sudden start seeing hypnogog imagery or experiencing vibrations, hearing Astral sounds etc., the just go with the feeling. Sometimes we spend so much time trying to quiet the mind that we get frustrated. Being frustrated is counterproductive for projection.
Good Luck 

Wow, this an interesting concept...I guess I'll give this idea a try and see if it helps

Hi JC45,

I am also having some difficulties to focus and keep my surface thought away. Recently I tried the method of Robert Monroe that he described in his Hemi Sync audio CDs: the energy box. The principle is simple, visualize quickly a heavy box (like the metal box in the old time) open it and put every thought that you have in mind or that could popup during the exercise inside the box and seal it. To seal it I imagine the metal entering in fusion so it can not escape.
I thought this method won't work on me but it actually did the job surprisingly, the thoughts never appear during my exercises. And when I don't use it so many ideas popup.

I hope this will work on you.

Thanks! I'll try this tonight and let you know if it helped at all.

I've been very interested in astral projection lately and I attempted it for the first time a couple weeks ago. I heard some people get it on the first try, some take years, but that a typical time frame is a couple months. On my first try, I think I atually got surprisingly close! I relaxed more than I ever have before and tried the "rope method" and felt some vibrations after a while. I've still only tried the rope method every night since then, but have never gotten as far as that first night...In fact, I think I'm getting worse and worse at concentrating, and I don't really know why! I can't really silence my mind, I'll be trying to focus on the rope-climbing but something will creep in my head and sort of take priority. I guess its because I've always been a deep thinker, when I had first heard of spiritual people in cultures such as ancient India trying to silence the mind my response was "why would anyone wanna do that?" So my mind is just always going and I'm always thinking about philosophy, music, art, my day, my friends, my band, girls (lol I am a teenager yaknow...), politics, religion, my family, and whatever else pops into my head! If anyone has any advice for SHUTTING MYSELF UP I'd greatly appreciate it!! If I can't fix this problem I'm worried I'll be trying this for years and never accomplish it!