Messages

ok, first of all,

SuPeR_DeLuXe,
The name of the CD was just Tibetan Chants, a commercial CD with tibetan chants and mantras. They have not returned since, so might just have been a coinsidence they showed up at that time...

kevin,
First of all, as I explained, the CD is a commercial CD with tibetan chants and mantras. It is commercially available for anyone to buy from commercial CD stores. I however bought it from a "new age" store, looking for something to drive out some negative spirits... claiming this CD would do just that, so I didn't think it could harm.

After having had the beings visit me, and posted this I did a little research and found this small quite on a website giving a short description of Tibetan Buddhism:

"a whole range of ferociously fanged and clawed protective embodiments of fierce energy who, despite their appearance, are said to be inspired by compassion"

Which sounds pretty close to what I experienced. It should be noted here again, that their APPEARANCE seemed "demonic", but I seriously doubt they were negative.

They actually seemed very nice, if it hadn't been for the appearance... very effectionate, wanting to be close... Kind of like dogs do when you are sad. The word "compassion" here seems to fit very well, they had long claws but were very careful with them not to scratch me...

It seems very likely to me that the "demonic" spirits mentioned in Tibetan Buddhism are protective (demonic LOOKING) elementals... No wonder they get away negative spirits considering how they look

As for the book, already have it... bought it about a week ago... and once again these beings were NOT negs.

This seem a little off-topic, but I just have to ask... Been playing tibetan chant music for a few hours while asleep... It is supposed to protect against negative spirits... thought it could cause the negs a little more problems by having it run during sleep.

Now is the thing, I have now been woken up over and over again the last few hours by these "things". It seems my entire bedroom is filled with them, and I am thinking the chant music might have attracted them. I have not been able to see them, and even if I had, I am not sure I wanted to...

These things have woken me up... and I have felt them kissing me, touching me, being close to me, having these huge claws... They do seem very effectionate, and there are even several of them in my bed... They seem quite humanoid, but they are not human, long claws and everything... Been putting their heads against my cheek, kissing me... and seem to be really curious as to who I am... They do not seem negative, though having strange things with sharp claws touch you are not high on the list of nice things.

I am kind of wondering if anyone knows if there are chants that perhaps attract certain elementals?

I have lately noticed that some "friendly" negative entities has put a mask over my head. This mask is not noticeable when touching the face, or the hair... When touching the haid it is like there is nothing there... However when I touch my neck upwards, I feel my hands going under something... I pull it off, and feels like a mask covering my entire head.

I have some spirits around me that are usually quite nice, however they do NOT get happy and nice when I try to take this thing off.

Anyone know what it might be?


PLEASE, no guessings! I do not want comments by people giving one guess after the other... If you do not know what it is, please do not reply... I much rather have no replies than a page full of guesses, I have enough of them myself. It has been many months since I posted last... Please show me that it is actually possible to post something on this forum and get clear relevants replies.

Thanks.

Alright here is a bit of an odd question perhaps, please only give serious replies, and do NOT reply if you haven't read the whole thing.

I have for quite some time kept getting "attacked" when I get out of body. Sometimes pure negative entities or demons looking weird, and a long while this Hitchhiker guy. Lately however I am quite sure some spirits has been responsible for most of it, I kept seeing the same guy all the time. He tried many things to get on my nerves, including sleeping in my bed causing this annoying, not funny "mergin" feeling making it impossible to fall asleep. And when I got out he kept attacking me, it was not nice.

Then one day I managed to have several OBEs in a row, I went out, fought with him, back to body, out continued etc, asking several times what he wanted. After a while I managed to get him to stop fighting me, and have a serious conversation instead. It turned out he was quite nice actually... apparently he wanted me out of the apartment, not sure why... I told him that even if I leave, someone else will move in so it won't do much good. We spoke a bit, I appologized for not being able to move out etc. I returned to body, managed to get out again, couldn't see so I began doing a conjuration when I finished it one out of the three times required, he jumps on me... tells me to stop it, that it causes an explosion... (conjurations are certain words and meanings you say for the purpose to get rid of negative entities). I was suprised, and told him really? I never saw anything when doing the conjurations, and I only did it at that case so I would be able to see, he let go of me and we continued to speak.

There are many reasons why I don't really consider him "negative", first of all, he can if he wants penetrate the circle of protection, the negative ones doesn't seem to be able to do that... Second the conjuration doesn't really effect him, even though he does get "scared" and runs away a while before he returns etc.

Anyway, we spoke a bit, I appologized again for not being able to move out. He seemed fine with it, and told me they could switch post (three of them, but the two other's didn't say much). He went on by asking me not to burn down the house, which probably referred to not using conjurations since they caused for him "explosions". I can also add that they do know they are dead. I returned to body willfully after finishing the conversation, he wanted to give me something, some paper or what it was... I reminded him that I could not bring "souvenirs" to the body, he replied "ohh of course".

Next time, a few days later I went out of body, was laying/sitting on the floor now after having rolled out of bed. I feel a hand on my arm, I grab it, I begin to see, and he doesn't really act as negative as before, but says some strange not so nice things. I tell him to help me up instead, he pulls me up to my feet. I tell him that I stopped doing the conjurations because of them, so the least I could expect he being a little nice. He tells me that he is dead, and not sure how I do it, and if it is "legal" (probably getting out of body). I reply that I know he is dead, and doesn't care about that, and that it is "legal".

I spoke to him a bit, tried to get him to tell me his name, which was very hard... didn't seem to want to give it out. I returned to body pretty quickly in the middle of trying to get him to tell me more about himself and who he is.

Next time I got out, I began by not beeing able to see, I felt on my arm, suprised that I did not have someone holding on to me, the spirit tend to do that when I get out... I began to be able to see somewhat, and couldn't see anyone around in the room. So I decided to walk through the walls and "so something".

Now to the point... Next time I got out, which was this morning, perhaps an hour ago. I woke up after having somewhat "negative" dream (i.e. emotions). Though I don't think that is the reason, I have had that before without anything like this happening... I woke up, I drifted deeper wanting to fall back to sleep. I had my right hand "out" and felt hands touching it, "tickeling" it, holding it and just dragging their fingers on my arm, not sexually though. I also felt the same thing on one of my legs. I have felt this kind of thing before, but only on my hand, and then it has been mostly touching of hand, not my whole arm and not this much. I knew it was my astral hand and leg, so I layed there a bit, thinking of it, feeling it, wondering what it can be all about. First I assumed it was the three spirits that was back. I felt that I should be able to leave body if I wanted by just getting a little deeper. I thought about it, hesitated, didn't feel like meeting negative spirits at the moment, assuming they were negative. But decided that projections were too precious to neglect, so I did some rotation thing, and got out of body, and bed.

Now is the thing, it wasn't just the three spirits, I could yet not see, but felt hands all over... It was like my entire apartment was filled with spirits. And they were now kind of carrying me, like on a live music show and stage dive... Only that they were all "touchy", not sexually, but having their hands all over me. I acted nice, and said "hey all, what do you want?", but the "shock" probably took me by too much surprise and I was back in body.

Now is the question, what on earth is going on!? Besides the attracted by negative dream thing, which does not make sense... not this many, and I have had much more negative ones without anything like this... (again, negative = negative emotions such as sadness).

Can it be that the three spirits went and got backup? They seemed nice enough once we had spoken, he stopped attacking me, and I stopped doing the conjurations at night etc.

I was on a nightclub last night, can it possibly be that all these followed me home last night? That seems a bit odd, that many... and why?

Do they want something? What do they want? They might not be as negative as they appear at first... I mean the other spirit, seemed pure evil at the beginning, but once we began to speak, he was pretty nice.

What should I do here? Thanks.

[Hitchhiker]

For months now I have the following problem, quoted from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics:

Hitchhiker
A rare type of problem that effects aproximately one in two hundred projectors at some time in their life-a real-time or low astral problem-is an OBE hitchiker, which can happen to seasoned projectors as well as novices. After the exit you come aware that some being is holding on to you from behind. You often see a pair of arms encircling and holding on to you. This being may be silent, or may speak and make threats or threatening sounds. It will often answer if spoken to. You may feel you are carried around by it, or you may feel you are carrying it around yourself.

If it answers at all, this being will usually give short, cryptic, negative or nonsense replies, which may or may not contain threats. It may even state it is there to help you in some way-do not believe this. You will usually be able to turn around and see your hitchiker. You will often see a rough looking male face with glaring eyes."


It was however only a few days ago I connected my problem with this part of Robert Bruce's book. First time I really felt him grab me I was flying up in the air, happy because finally I had no vision problems. Then suddenly someone grabbed me from behind. I felt his arms around me, having them around my arms so I would not be able to move them. I asked who it was, and I got an illogical "cryptic" response which only purpose was to scare me.

I turned around, began doing a conjuration, I saw him limp away in fear. His face looked like being a man in the 40's or so. I chased him, kept doing conjuration, angry at him, because I was sure he was the one responsible for many other problems I had earlier, including vision problems, "pokings" etc. I chased him a while, and then returned to body.

Next time he showed up he held me much tighter, I began doing the conjurations, tried to get him off me... He had his bony discusting arms around me, his head on my left shoulder and only laughed in my ear when I tried to get rid of him.

Except from the first time I haven't really tried to speak to him. What he said the first time wasn't exactly something one "wants" to hear when one has a strange being around you in the real-time zone. There hasn't been many times when he didn't grab me, always from behind. I have tried many things, but he doesn't seem to want to give up.

Now is the weird thing, in the beginning he was 100% nasty, discusting evil. After a few times he basically just grabbed me around, I tried to get rid off him, but he didn't do much else... Just kept clanging on while I tried to fight it. So far it's understandable, negative entities always wants to prevent one from exploring the astral, scaring etc, and does whatever necessary.

But now is the thing, lately there has been a change... Now he has begun to "attack" me in my bed. About a week ago or so I was going to sleep... I was starting to loose myself in random monologue and start to dream... I rolled over, changing position, now just seconds from falling asleep... Then suddenly he grabs my arms... Totally shocked I jumped out from bed, I had no idea I was split! In other words, he cannot be subconcious.

Now I was standing next to bed, I felt his arms around me again. I grabbed the wrist on him, and was totally surprised, felt nothing like he used to... It felt 100% human... Warm soft skin... and he seemed to loosen his grasp around me (but still holding on steadily) when I put my hands on his wrist... A few secs later back to body.

This morning I split again, I was in bed, and before I had a chance to get up from bed, he grabs my arms, holding tight. I think I had bed covers over eyes, because my sight was very dark (strange but other people have confirmed that having covers over eyes can darken the astral for some strange reason (you still see, but darkened)). But I did see a clear dark shape of a man standing over me. Looking fully human, I put my right hand on his side, below his left arm... Trying to use creative ability to scare him off... There was no difference between how he felt and how any other physical person would feel. He didn't really do anything... he just stood there in front of bed, with a steady hold of my arms.


I don't know if it is the same guy in the beginning which felt bony and discusting, and this one. But he does prevent me from exploring the astral, and it is really going on my nerves. I have done conjurations before bed, I have a circle of protection around bed before sleep... I have several esoteric pentagrams over bed and around (put up as an attempt to see if they would help). If he is negative he should NOT be able to grab me while I am in bed!

The last two times I have gotten no negative feelings of him at all... Except from frustration that he ruins my precious projections.

Except from him being a negative entity, there are two possibilities I have been thinking about... A few months back, there was a murder around here, a guy stabbed several times. Also a few months back, a friend of mine commited suicide. I have started to think it might be any of them, confused, and scared... I have heard that spirits trapped in the past like that, such as ghosts etc, tend to stay around people and places they knew when alive. Also about a week after the suicide of the friend, I did see him using real-time sight sitting next to me in bed... though I of course cannot say if it was real or not, I wasn't split so wasn't able to communicate (in fact it frightened me quite a bit at the time). So that would make sence...

But on the other hand, it would not explain the negativity in the beginning... So perhaps just a negative entity pretending to be nice? But still should not be able to penetrate the circle of protection, and I would still get bad vibes I think from him if that was the case.

I am sorry this was a very long post... and I bet most people won't even bother reading it all... But if you tend to respond, please do... Any advice is appreciated, this has been going on my nerves for quite some time.

When I began to practise projection and meditation there were no problem reaching the hypnogogic state, nor getting close to sleep without actually falling asleep. However this has changed, nowadays it is basically impossible to even get remotely close to sleep. This has bothered me some time now, but only recently it has become a real annoyance. I recently have come to realize that in order to progress in a good way from where I currently am, I need to learn to approach the hypnogogic state - which is basically impossible.

I am pretty sure I know the reason for this problem though. A while back, perhaps 2 months ago I decided that I wanted to master silence of mind. Silence of mind has many benefits, both for meditation and otherwise. However I probably went about it the wrong way, and instead of doing it progressively while maintaining a good deep meditative state, I just turned off all monologue all together.

Eventually I think I became pretty good at it. I managed to get into a quite deep trance state, feeling energy "buzzing" throughout the entire body every time I meditated (not projection symtoms). As well as going from only the 3rd eye chakra active, to crown and throat without energy raising.

However doing this, shutting of the monologue, and putting more effort in this instead of reaching a good near-sleep boarder and maintain the meditation there. Seems to also have caused the body to get accostumed to not entering a near-sleep state during meditation sessions. So now when I realize I really need to approach this state, it is litterally impossible.

It does not matter what I do, it just isn't possible. I can keep concentrated upon one task, foce mind chatter, no chatter, pretending to go to sleep etc, without approaching the sleep boarder or hypnogogic state.

It should perhaps be added that my 3rd eye and crown are really going on my nerves at times. The fact that I seem to have made the body accostumed not to enter the state I want, should be enough. But that my 3rd eye and crown chakras are going haywire everytime I try to meditate or approach sleep, sure doesn't make it easier. Feels like I wear a tight heavy helmet with extra pressure and pulsation at the 3rd eye spot. Approaching sleep with this in itself is more than hard.

Seems the post got quite long for such a basic question, but want to make sure I am not being missunderstood. If anyone has any suggestions, hints etc they are welcome. I don't want to take a "break" a couple of months just to get back to the beginning. Please don't come with suggestions such as "keep concentrated", or "don't think about it" etc.

Thanks

I have a question regarding which has been most beneficial for your AP work.

Usually when I enter a trance I can do two things, well most of the time at least. I can either put my body to sleep, keeping a clear surface mind trying to keep thoughts from popping up in my mind. While doing this I relaxa my body more and more. I either just concentrate on not thinking, the blackness, heart or something else to put my full focus on while having a clear surface mind.

When doing this I get my body into a very deep relaxation, and eventually manages to keep a clar mind for extended periods. When doing this I feel I am "deep", and manage to keep my concentration, I never get any hypnogogic images popping up. I often feel a "cobweb" tickeling over my entire body, but especially in face.

OR

I put my body into a deel relaxation mode, and instead of clearing my mind I just pretend I am going to sleep, and try to get as close as I can to the sleep boarder. I do try and keep my mind relatively quiet while doing this, but also try to get closer to sleep. Eventually I am near sleep, my body is quite deep and I can get an occasional hypnogogic image. When doing this I get close to sleep, and often fall asleep, having a very hard time keeping my concentration.

Now is the question, what is most beneficial? Should I just try and keep concentrated but 100% awake, not thinking of entering a near-sleep boarder, and just deepen the trance as much as possible? OR should I try and get as close to sleep as I can, while having put the body into a trance state, and while getting close to sleep try and learn to hold my concentration?

Not long after I began practising projection and meditation I began to feel my 3rd eye when I entered a trance. I felt it as a mild to intense pressure, and a few single times lately as a second heart pulsating in synchronizity. A while back I began to feel it not not only in trance, but also when relaxing in other places, like at the computer and TV. It's not really a problem, but it can get annoying at times having an intense pressure in the middle of the forehead.

Now is the thing, a few days ago my 7th chakra suddenly became very active while sitting at my computer (the crown chakra). It felt like my head was being pushed down, and then like a scalp massage, quite nice. Since then whenever I relax BOTH my 6th and 7th chakras activates. It feels like having a heavy tight helmet on with some extra pressure in the middle of the forehead, sometimes pulsating a little.

It's not really a problem, but it can get very annoying. I am not sure what to do, I have heard it is a good thing, but it really doesn't feel good all the time...

Any suggestions ?

Thanks.

I don't consider this a problem in say, but sometimes it gets a little annoying. As I explained in another post earlier, my 3rd eye always activates when I am in trance - feeling a mild to intense pressure (and lately on occasion strong pulsation). But lately it seem to want to activate itself even when I am not in trance. This only happens when I am relaxed, like sitting at the computer, watching TV etc. I get a mild to intense pressure, depending on the occasion. I guess it's good that it is active, but sometimes it gets annoying. I "can" make it stop by somehow focusing the brain in a different way, but this usually causes a headache after a while, and it's not comfortable...

I guess I just want to hear if anyone else experiences this? I guess it's all good if it excersises the 3rd eye more, but sometimes it just gets annoying...

Suggestions ?

Just did a trance practise, usually during it I feel my 3rd eye as an average to very intense pressure, However now I got very deep, and the 3rd eye went totally haywire. It began to feel like a second heard, and started pulsating in synchronizity with the heart, it was very intense.

I am used to intense pressure there during practises, but this was way beyond that. Just thought I'd check if it's something to worry about? I know it's probably a good thing to feel it has a lot of activity etc. But this was very intense, perhaps it's not such a good idea to let it go that far? (I didn't really try to make it like that, it basically just happened).

About 5 mins ago I stopped the practise, and I feel a little dizzy now actually...

Thanks.

Two things going through my mind regarding trance problems currently.

First of all, for some reason my heart always wants to speed up and/or beat a lot harder when I go into trance. I think this has to do with excitement, but still I am not really excited... I have been practising trance for many months, and one would think the "excitement" would have vanished by now... And for the people who imidiately start jumping to conclusions that it is the heart chakra, I am pretty sure it's not... Well it could be, but sure doens't feel like it... Sometimes I manage to get a steady low beat, but then I start thinking about it and voila it's beating hard/fast again... This is perhaps not a huge problem, but sure is annoying when trying to go into trance...

The second problem is more of a real problem... Often, if not most of the time or always, when I manage to get quite deep. My body is very heavy, and I feel I am really starting to get progress in the deepness of the trance. I feel I am about to hit the edge where my body feels strangely heavy, and light at the same time, which I have entered a few times. POFF and my body is fully awake, not numb or anything. When it happens I don't feel that I have broken the concentration, and I sure didn't move the body...

Anyone having any thoughts ...?

Thanks.

I think I am being attacked...

First I wake up many times during a 12 hour period, feeling I should be able to get out, but can't move my astral body for 2 penny... I think it's just me... I fall back to sleep, wake up, back to sleep etc... Thinking I am too excited, or some other reason.

I woke up again, very tired, so tired I barely knew I was in bed... But I was concious and for some reason wanted to see if I could activate real-time sight (where I see through eyelids but still feel I am in body). After som trials and errors I could suddenly make out my body behind the closed eyes. I started to feel I was becoming split, and could feel my entire body. Then I felt a huge weight on my back, like someone was pressing me down real hard. I started getting scared ( I think I "felt" something too I.e. negative emotion). So tried getting back to physical which I managed after a few seconds.

I started thinking I was imagining it. So I fell back to sleep, woke up and felt I "should" be able to get out. But wasn't able to move my astral body just like all other times during the night. Then I asked for help to remove whatever was on my back. And suddenly I felt very light, and felt myself floating up, but I of course ruined it by starting to think of my physical body etc...

Now I began to be convinced I was being attacked by something... Layed thinking of it, trying to enter trance, and sleep, switching between the two seeing if I could get out more after the help. But didn't really succeed...

Quite a while later I finally felt I could go back to sleep. But tried to keep mentally awake while body entered a trance. I tried to get real-time sight again (I tried a LOT of times before this in bed btw, no success what so ever). But finally could make out some things through my eyelids, think they were fictional though (not the real-time sight as above where I could see body), and I could hear sound/music I knew wasn't there. Then BAM split. Now I felt I was fully split, tried to get up. But noticed I was paralysed, I fought like crazy but impossible to move. Then I realized I had the weight on my back again... And it "felt" like it kind of moved, but it was so little that I am not sure about that. Anyhow I asked for help again, waited a few seconds. But the fear became too strong and I "willed" myself back into physical.

I did conjurations when in bed, I did a circle of protections before going to bed... I imagined myself surrounded by protective light shortly before the split took place... I imagined my body being covered by fire...

Huha? What more can I do, just wait till they get bored?

okey this has been going on for like 2 hours now...

I am sitting here at the computer, relaxed and it feels like my astral body is falling into a hole, just to return to body a few seconds later. Feels like I am going doooown, up, dooown, up, dooown, up, doown up etc

If I go with the flow the down movement can last a little longer, and I get a pressing feeling at the top of my head (7th chakra?).

I have gotten suggestions everywhere from ear problems to the astral body loosening...

If anyone knows, or have "good" ideas of what it might be, they are welcome.

When I began practising projection I after a month or so, a few times by accident I came to see "through" my eyelids. This was explained as real-time sight by Robert Bruce in his book, and something one could stumble on. When this happened it was just like watching through the regular eyes, room was normal except from a few minor changes (like no bed cover).

Only a few posts down I explained something similar, though with the difference that I was actually "there" felt my body as real as physical. I was told that I split, and the last time when feeling body I think that is a good explaination. I was 100% concious, felt body, and it sure wasn't a dream/LD.

However this morning something else happened which makes me even more confused. I woke up very tired, felt I could drift into sleep very quickly (not like the above, when I felt quite awake). However I did know I was in bed, and I looked into the darkness of my eyes. Then all of a sudden I could see through them again!


The thing that connects the real-time sight experience, the question a few posts down and this is that I had the same "kind" of sight. I.e. "grey" or "night". The experience a few posts down was fully clear, however this was a little blurry. Still I knew I was in bed, I looked at the blackness and slowly I began to see through them, still knowing I was in bed.

I then saw a cat on my bedroom floor. I was thinking "hmm... perhaps that is the cat I was feeling in my bed for about 1,5 months when first started trying to project" or something to that extent (I was sure I had a cat "running" around in bed at that time .

But then with that thought two more cats suddenly appeared, I was concious when this happened but "drifting" (not as clear as post below). So two more cats kind of made "sense". And then all of a sudden I was in a dream, full color and not in my bedroom at all... I was laying in bed in a room of my old house. And it turned into a normal unconcious dream.


Lots of text... but what on earth is this!? Is that I see real? Is it made up by my mind entirely? Is it a mix of them? Before the two extra cats appeared and I started to loose conciousnes, the sight was the normal "greyish", "nighttime", "looking through eyes" thing. When the other two cats appeared, it slowly got "color" and my conciousnes began fading...

Sorry for all the posts regarding the similar thing, but this is really starting to confuse me...

okey my heart is pounding pretty hard now... Something weird just happened, suggestions are welcome.


I woke up (I KNOW I woke up, because it wall all light I was awake etc). I had been waking up and going back to sleep a few times, and thought I'd do the same. But wasn't too eager. I rolled over from my side to my back. I have never been able to really sleep nor AP on my back. I though, "this isn't working I can't sleep on my back". And the next thing I know my bed is being lifted! From laying straight down, the side of the bed where my feet are was being raised! I was fully concious during this and started freaking. Thoughts like "am I APng?", "stay calm", "I should perhaps try and get out of body" started popping up. But it wasn't like an AP (to judge from when I've been out). The bed continued to raise, and when the bed was raised so much that my legs were about to fall behind my head I really freaked, and was either because of that, or because of other reasons, but I was then awake like normal.

One of the reasons I don't think it was an AP was because my room was very bright, and the sun is shining outside. But when this happened it was greyish. Just like it's been the times I accidently got astral vision (i.e. not split, just laying in bed trying to AP and then seeing through my eyelids.

However this time was different... I FELT the whole thing! It wasn't like I just watched the bed going up. I FELT IT! I felt it just as well as if being physical.


I'd really like to know if it was some sort of weird dream (I never lost conciousnes, at least not that I noticed).

Something similar happened a few hours earlier... But I thought of it as nonsense... I had a dream where a recently dead friend of mine as well as some other old friends was in. I woke up in the bed, but drifted on the edge of sleep. Wasn't really awake... but wasn't asleep either. I was in bed, had the similar "greyish" feeling... Like in the middle of the night wearing night goggles or something. And noticed that the recently dead friend from the dream was sitting next to my bed. I was concious but felt the subconcious had a bit of control (i.e. edge of sleep, too tired to see using your phyical eyes... But still knowing you are in bed, and feeling my body). I of course assumed my thought of the dream had continued a bit in when I woke up, since the subconcious was still active...

I still don't think it was my friend... freaky still...

However the bed thing was a lot weirder...

I'd really want to know if these were some kind of weird dreams?? These experiences had the same type of "sight" as when I've had "astral vision" a few times. Except that I really FELT the bed thing, it lasted a lot longer, I could look around and emotions didn't seem to stop it as easily.

Also it wasn't like it was muddy or anything. I saw perfectly fine, only that it was like waking up in the middle of the night wearing night goggles.

Seriously, doing a concious projection from being fully awake is impossible. Sure it's hard to do it by wake-ups, when just waking up from a dream etc... But at least that's possible.

I have practised concious projection for quite a while. I am able to get "deep" into trance, and beyond the heavy body feeling (i.e. if you go deeper than the very heavy feeling, it gets a strange feeling of being light AND heavy at the same time). I am not sure about the brainwaves, but I would guess upper to middle Theta are common.

The problem is no matter what I do, I just can't seem to get close enough to sleep. I often enter a dream (not hypnogogia), which I loose conciousnes in and snap out of within less than a second.

I sometimes can get a sence of loss of reality, and deeply tranced in the practise I am doing.

But if I am gonna compare to the states of mind and closeness to sleep I've been in the few times I split, or was in the middle of splitting, I am not even close!

Because of this it makes sence that I don't get the vibrations when doing the practise. However as I said, I DO loose myself in a dream to semi-dream for a very short time, and here I often get vibrations... (but since it's a dream I "accidently" snap out of it... loosing the vibrations).

I always try and watch myself fall asleep, to get more familiar with the the boarder state... Even though I sometimes get some success on this... All it seems to get me is into deep meditation or insomnia, *lol*).

I know there's probably not much help to receive on this... But any suggestions or hints are welcome.


By the way, I meditate using holo-sync regulary, and often use this time to practise projection. Same thing applies here though, I get even deeper, but impossible to get close enough to sleep.

I thought I had this all clear for some while, but have been reading a lot of the older posts discussing phasing.

I have always considered phasing to be a means of internally getting to the astral realms. Meaning one "steps into" a hypnogogic image, or enter the astral through a gateway/portal in the 3D blackness. I have never done it myself, and getting to a "3D blackness seems like an impossibility", but in theory anyway that is how I have figured it to be.

So far so good.

But when doing this I took for granted it would be like stepping into a lucid dream, only fully conscious and "REAL". In other words it is all 3D, one can touch, lift things etc. With the difference that in an OBE one feels "separate" from the body, and more like air. And in phasing, one uses a sort of "dream body", not aware of the physical body, but not feeling separate as a classic OBE.

However from reading a lot of older posts. I am more getting the feeling that those who do phasing, are more like "watching a TV screen" and interacting with it. They are not really aware of their bodies, but they DO know they lay in the bed. And they can't jump and feel like they are jumping, like in a lucid dream.

At the moment I am a bit confused. I have been working hard to get "successful" in phasing. But if it does not feel like you are really THERE I don't know if it is worth it. Better to put all the effort into the classic OBE, regardless of the memory problems that can occure.

In short, when phasing do you step INTO the astral, or is it more like interacting with a TV-screen or remote-viewing ?

Thanks.

This question is probably a bit odd, but I am starting to go nuts here so I'll give it a try...
(sorry for the long post, but please read it)

Reaching the hypnogogic state used to be quite easy, or rather I got there during practises, meditation etc without wanting or trying. However I have lately wanted to learn how to reach this state on will, and now I can't seem to reach it EVER, *lol*

I know what you all think, do not think about it and it will come... However that is not true... Weither I want it, or not, I cannot get it back...

Just to make sure everyone knows what I am talking about, and at what state of hypnogogia I am referring to. It's the state between being awake and asleep. One gets in touch with the subconscious and it starts "throwing" images at you... These are images you actually see, and are pretty much never based on thoughts, emotions etc. Usually illogical still-images or animated scenes. They are either like watching a little greyish, but still clear dream... Or they are VERY, VERY vivid, like watching an actual photograph or movie (the later is more often places and faces-often which you do not know).

Getting the first type used to be no problem at all, the second more vivid "type" used to happen from time to time. If you get into a trance, these should appear after the neural discharges stop (the "lightnings" and light flashes you see in the blackness). Regardless how long, and how deep of a trance I get, and even though I am close to sleep, the dicharges ended, being tired, just slept 10+ hours, morning, night, day etc. I just don't get them to re-appear!

The scientific term for this state is hypnogogia, but according to most sources this is the state mystics call clairvoyance (just in case you still don't know what I am talking about).


On a side-note, prior to these images appearing one can also see lots of geometric shapes and colors. As a child (like 12-15 years old), I used to be able to see these shapes without problem at all, and used to look at them, since they created nice shapes and increadible images etc. Then I stopped watching them for several years, and has since then not been able to reproduce them either. If I can see these I am pretty sure I can get the hypnogogic images to appear as well (even though these are a lot easier).


To make really sure you know what I am talking about, these images are the ones people use to "phase" into the astral.

Sorry for the long text, but if ANYONE has ANY hints, books, websites etc on how to best reach this state, I'd appreciate it. However, please don't give me suggestions like "just stare into the blackness", "don't think about it" and things like that.

Only been on this board for about a day, and this is already my third post, but anyway...

This isn't so much a question, more of a curiosity. I have many times seen people say to be "focusing on the third eye" in order to induce the vibrations and cause the separation. However this can mean a lot of things, and would be interesting to know exactly what they mean, since many people seem to have success with it.

I know several people have success with separation by gently "rolling" their eyes upwards. And by this way I guess one could say they "focus on the third eye" since they are when eyes closed "looking upward" towards that area.

But it could just as well mean that they picture an eye in the forehead, and concentrate on this kind of like a visualization.

Perhaps they visualize the area in the middle of the forehead? Focusing on trying to "feel" the forehead?

They might also be focusing on a sort of "pressing" sensation at that area, which I seem to get a lot when practising. Been thinking it was some sort of weird "headache"/pressure even though I am fully relaxed. That is until I read about it in Robert Bruce book. Don't know if it is of any importance, but feels kind of like someone is pressing their thumb quite hard in the middle of the forehead, and a few times a full palm. It's very annoying, doesn't hurt, but the pressure is quite intense... I am even starting to be able to "induce" it not even when practising. Not sure if it is really anything, but still a possibility that is what they mean.

Perhaps they focus on hypnogogic imagery, which some times seem to be considered "third eye images"?

In a nutshell, if anyone knows, let me know, thanks.

I don't know if these are signs of me getting close, doing something wrong, missing my "chance" or of no "importance" at all, but they are starting to get really annoying.

I am entering a trance, very heavy, getting more and more tired, my mind is getting quite "groggy". I get small conscious "breaks" for a fraction of a second, not effecting my state of mind, practise or feel. Then I get another one of these "breaks", and now all of sudden I am 100% mentally alert, heavyness gone. I wait 20 sec, and I am yet again heavy and tired/groggy.

This usually happens after about 45 minutes.

I really doubt I split, but this is starting to get annoying, and usually destroys the practise.

If anyone know what I might be doing wrong, or have any suggestions they are welcome.

Hello all,

I have been practising projection for quite a while, but am still to get my first experience. I have quite a number of times managed to get very vivid hypnogogic images when practising. That is images close, or as real as photos or watching a movie. When these happened I found them interesting, but didn't pay much attention to them.

Lately I've found out that these, and state when they appear, can be used as a doorway into the astral. I have since then tried reproducing and getting these images back, which has been impossible.

If I just put myself on the edge of sleep I get hypnogogic images, but they are greyish and not even close to earlier experienced.
I have tried putting myself into deep trance, to the point where heavyness and the "feel" of the body is gone. Where as I then aproach the hypnogogic state, without success.

If anyone have any tips or suggestions (beside "just let it happen" etc) let me know, it's appreciated. I have had them numerous times before, so I would think I should be able to get them again.

Might also use this opportunity to ask a question related to the trance. I manage to get myself heavier, and heavier, when I after a while get to the point of barely feeling the body at all, and it's all of a sudden very light, heavyness gone. Though when having been in this state for a while, the feel comes back and the body is awake again. Suggestions?

Thanks.

lol Moonburn33, it wasn't a complaint or comment based on fear or frustration. I was simply curious if someone had experienced anything similar, knew what the reason they came might have been, or even had an idea what kind of beings they were.

It wouldn't harm you to act a little nicer, automatically assume that every post is fear based or a complaint.

kalratri,
I am not sure of the exact purpose of every chant on the CD, but the lady that sold it to me claimed it protected against negative spirits. So I thought I could just as well try it out, only to give my neg "friends" something more to worry about

I was kind of thinking if perhaps the reason the chants worked was because it attracted some sort of elemental, which the negative spirits preferred to stay away from, and that is why they might have worked.

>Well you're just saying "tibetan chants", do you know what the chants are for?
>Each chant has a specific purpose...

I am not sure of their direct purpose no, except that they were supposed to repell negative spirits, track list:
1. Tanggula shan
2. Temple Spirit: First Light
3. Sunrise Mantra
4. Khatmandu
5. Water Mantra
6. Asiadrum: Roof Of The World II
7. Essence Of Light
8. Temple Spirit: Twilight
9. Earth Mantra
10. Shangri-La
11. Temple Chant

of course might just be a coinsidence, and not have anything to do with these chants at all, and only passing by

Considering they were able to penetrate my circle of protection, I have to assume they aren't all bad... Also they were pretty careful with the claws, it scratched my back once when it was being affectionate, but they did not with purpose use them against me.

As for excersise, not really my cup of tea, thanks

EnderZ,
I suggest not just trying to float out, but actively get out of bed... But if you do try to float, do not just "imagine" floating, make sure you "FEEL" it, feel yourself raising up more and more... Try to get yourself to the point of not feeling the bed any more. Floating up like this can be quite tricky, especially if you want to float away from bed, onto the floor... Tricky thing and not recommended as your main technique to get away from body.

No I was never able to feel spirits before I began to practise AP and trance states. It is something that has developed over time... Now I can sit at the computer, and feel the cat jump up on the chair, into my lap This however doesn't mean I can feel all the spirits all the time... If I am standing making dinner, and there is a spirit next to me, looking at me... I wouldn't notice.

>I've herd over and over that when you sleep or dream i think, you really are projected. Is your astral body just
>right by your physical the whole time? when i've herd that said, I always thought that our astral body was just
>roaming around the astral planes without awarness. But im guessing to be able to feel entitys like that, then your
>astral body is in the RTZ next to your body?

When you are asleep, you are in fact out of body yes, however you do not know it since you are unconcious. If you visit someone who is asleep, you might see then in their bed, close to the physical body... or walking around the apartment, acting silly. Can also happen he is some completely other place, like in another city, or at a friends house. You might have travelled to the friend, and you are both asleep, communicating with each other, both seeing the other in his/her own dreams... Or you might be communicating with a spirit, clouding the appearance by the spirit of subconcious images, thinking he is your friend.

I am not quite sure how it works regarding being in the planes and the real-time zone. If you are dreaming, and suddenly realize you are dreaming, hence having a lucid dream. You are now still surrounded by the subconcious images, and the background story of the dream might still be going on... If you now feel your back, you might feel that the silvercord is attached to the body. You can now clear away the subconcious images, and project to any place you like, just like in an OBE (can be tricky to get into the real-time zone, but possible).

On the other hand, I have experienced being in an unconcious dream, and suddenly a cat jumps on me for no reason in the dream... I then wake up, what I thought was physically... only to realize I was woken up out of body by the non-physical cat, and that was why I created a cat in my dream.

It is possible you are using two different bodies, one in the real-time zone, and one in the planes. By having a being shake your astral body in the real-time zone, you are transferred from the body in the planes to the one in the real-time zone... It might also be that you are out in the planes in your astral body, and the cat jumps up on your etheric body... This makes your astral body snap back into the etheric one, your astral body are now inside the etheric body... Realize you are split, and now pet the cat using your astral body, moving the astral body outside the etheric one again.

I really know too little on this subject, but it is a really interesting one... and earns some investigation.

>A few times while in a deep trance, I've felt some feelings around my legs,
>kind of like the covers on top of me are moving in some way, like if they
>where being scrunched up over and over again if that makes sense, but just
>ignored it. Was that just vibrations or do an entity?

Very hard to know what you mean exactly... it does however not sound like an entity, nor the vibrations... Might just be signs of the trance and relaxation, the numbness making itself more noticable, but can't say for sure. In any case I suggest you ignore it, all physical sensations are distractions when it comes to the split.

EnderZ,
I know if an entity is in bed with me because I can feel it, how it feels depends on the level of relaxation. To take an example, I have/had a non-physical cat that used to sleep with me every night. I would go to bed, lay down, making myself comfortable... I can then feel a cat jumping up into the bed, walking around, making itself comfortable. When this happened in the beginning, I was constantly opening and closing my eyes, feeling that it felt just too real not to be a physical cat.

I could then feel it walk over to my back, and lay down against me. When feeling it walk around the bed, it is no difference to a physical cat and the non-physical one. When it however is laying against a body part, it feels physical, just with less "substance". As I get more and more relaxed, the cat starts to feel more and more solid, when at the end when I am just falling asleep it feels fully solid and physical.

I have woken up by this cat a few times in the middle of the night, feeling it on my chest, licking me in the face, wanting to cuddle... Since it is walking on my astral body, I am woken up out of body, and can pet it using my astral hands. Lately I have a few times when it was sleeping next to my ear heard it purr, very faint though clearly. I have however not felt or seen it for a couple of weeks now... I had another animal in bed with me a while back a few days, I think this one might have scared it away.

This same thing applies to feeling humans sleep next to you. Quite a while back I had a problem with a spirit that wanted to sleep in bed with me. The problem here was that it wanted to be so close to me, that his body was going "through" my physical body. This in itself does not feel nice when wanting to go to sleep... But the real problem was that as I got closer to sleep the spirit next to me felt more and more solid and physical. When I then did hit the sleep boarder and became unconcious, this spirit felt fully solid... And since it occupied the same space as me, it felt as if our bodies were "merged", this was a very uncomforting feeling... which caused my imidiate wakeup... Had a lot of problems sleeping a few days because of it... I eventually just ignored the spirit, pretended it was not there... and it eventually got bored and left.

To your comment regarding your wakeups, it is of course possible you wake up split. But it is also possible you just wake up from a dream, being in your physical body and then return to sleep, you can only tell by experimenting. If you wake up, see the actual ceiling, and then suddenly black and you do not see the ceiling any more... it is very likely you were split for a few seconds, too sleepy to realize.

Next time this happens, just sit up, don't think about it... just sit up... if you then suddenly find yourself laying down again, you were split and out of body

I don't think that is anything I am interested in... I have no interest in writing fiction, or novels... Assuming I in a future did write a book, it would be with the intention of telling my experiences to help other's, and guide them to their own understandings, making it as accurate as possible.

It might be true that most people would consider it fiction, however there are a small percentage who is truly seeking true experiences, and would appreciate genuine information, and those are the ones to write for.

I know myself that it were people who tried to tell things the way it was, telling what they experienced, that inspired me the most in the beginning.