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That is a good point.  I feel fairly sure that I have forgotten many of my lucid dreams because I haven't recorded them.

Lotus Legs, (padmasana)What do you think causes your LDs? Do you do meditation, cerebral breathing, chakra work?

 Padmasana?  I'm guessing that's the Hindu word for LotusLegs or something.  Would you please clarify?   If it is, then I'm definately gonna remember that.  Thanks.

I've recently started having great lucid dreams.  I used to have just one or two every month and they were always really short:  I would realize that I was dreaming and wake up right after that.  But last week I had two fairly long lucid dreams and another last night.

I think having lucid dreams helps with astral projection.  Let me put my Lucid Dream up here, just because I love to tell people about my lumic dreams:

I was in my dorm room.  This part was pretty long, but it was actually nothing  like my dorm room, but I was absolutely sure that I was not dreaming, but then I saw a red purse move by itself.  At first I thought this was just a little strange, but because of my lucid dream training, I figured I might as well check the purse out and do a dreamcheck.  I went over to where the purse was and there was something strange.  I couldn't believe it!  I WAS actually dreaming.

I ran out into the hall, which was huge and felt more like a mall.  There were other people there, and they were dancing; happy that I was aware of my dream state.  My friend came running down the hall and then flew toward me.  I said, "I'm going to try to phase through you!"  We flew right at each other, but I felt like it wasn't going to work, and we crashed into one another.

I was psyched.  I was going to do a bunch of stuff in this lucid dream.  At least, that's what I thought...because I then saw this hot girl walking by me.  I said to myself, "Don't do it!" because every time I tried to have sexual encounters in lucid dreams, they would always end, so I said, "Don't do it!"...but I did it...  I'll leave it at that, because...while we were doin' it.... i closed my eyes.  Uh oh!  Whenever I close my eyes in a dream, I usually then open my real eyes, which is what happened.  I didn't get the do all the stuff I wanted to do, but I did have fun.  I'm looking forward to having many more lucid dreams and, soon, Astral Projections!

Thanks for reading,
Lotus Legs!

P.S.  It's late, I'm not gonna bother with spell check

I especially agree to what you said about the people on this site.  They are helpful and unbiased.

Wow Michael!  That's a pretty cool projection there.

I was most interested in what you said about having your OOBEs when you are "uneasy."  I'd like to hear more about that.  What kinds of uneasiness have you had OOBEs with?

Maybe I'll read the exorcist and try the same thing you did?

By the way, do you usually have OOBEs when you get to sleep late, or when you get to sleep earlier and getting a good night's sleep?

That's an awsome experience there.  The few lucid dreams I've had don't match up to that.

It seems very scary that you woke up time and time again in a dream.  That' freaks me out.  I can only hope that if I ever get into that kind of situation that I will keep my head on straight (not literally), and calmly try to go with the flow...

spooky

Good For you!  Keep it up; you're way ahead of me.  I haven't had an OBE yet.

ME NEXT ME NEXT!!!

Members,

Please list your RTZ experiences, or any other experiences, that you feel are proof of Astral Projection.

Many of us are doubtful that Astral Projection is simply Lucid Dreaming where the spirit does not exit the body.

I always leave a little room for doubt, but I'd love to hear about more RTZ projections.

Good Deal!

I get the feeling that Laberge did not regard supernatural applications of "dreaming" because he is trying to protect his reputation as a scientific individual.

I think there are a few hints in his book that imply that he either believes in, or hopes for, the supernatural possibilities of lucid dreaming, (AKA Astral Projection.)
For Example:  He studied under a linage dream yogi.  He also said something along the lines of, "I hope science will some day be able to learn from (the dream yogi book)"

I think he is implying the more fantastic things that might be found in this dream yogi text.  (i.e., real-time projections. precognitive dreams, etc.)

Perhaps, for the sake of being acceptable to the scientific community, he left out these fantastic ideas entirely.  I for one believe this is could be a good thing.  If the rationalizing world were introduced to Lucid Dreaming, it would become more and more common.  This could become a foothold for the supernatural into the scientific world.

I have been trying to become a more experienced APer, but I feel that I have too much doubt in the supernatural.

I want very much to believe that my spirit can leave the body, etc., etc., but I also leave a little room for doubt as well.  I believe that the supernatural is scientifically plausible, so I always take things with a pinch of salt.

The problem is that with that doubt, I may always have something keeping me from APing.  Luckily, I read a book by one Steven Laberge called Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming.

He is very scientific.  He backs up his claims with broadly documented studies, and cites many sources which I will probably read as well.

After reading his book, I have come to make LD synonymous AP.  I know Robert the Bruce's Treatise mentions that he believes that LDing is a weak form of AP, but Steven Laberge describes what he calls the WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) which is a method that sounds all too similar to Robert Bruce's projection technique.  My point: What Laberge calls LDing, The Bruce calls APing.  They are one and the same.

I could go on and on about this book, but BASICALLY what I'm trying to say is that the idea of the spirit leaving the body can be a frightening thing for many doubting APers, but there is another way of looking at it.  TRY IT OUT IF YOU HAVE THE DOUBT!

ALSO, if you have no problem with the supernatural, this is still a good read because there is so much to it.

I had a dream that I totally and utterly died in FIRST PERSON, but did not die in real life.  Your friend is clinging to a false truth (aka untruth).

Here's my dream.

I was hiding behind some junk from some gang-members or something.  They were walking past me and I hoped they didn't see me, but one of them did.  I got out of my hiding place and pretended like I was supposed to be there, but one of them held something shinny (I didn't have my glasses on, so I couldn't tell what it was, but I was fairly sure it was a gun.) He shot me in the head, right between the eyes.  There was millisecond of intense pain and then there was nothing.  I floated in total blackness for a few moments.  I remember thinking, "If this is what dying is like, then it's not so bad..."  I started to feel my physical body and realized that I was dreaming, but slipped out before I could move on to a cool lucid dream.

There you have it.  I'm still alive. (at least I think I am...   )

I think it would be a good idea if forum members had another ranking system based on a person's skill at astral travel.  There are pleanty of people who are ranked premiere members who can't even project as well as skilled projectors who are ranked as starting members.  If members could differentiate between these people, trainees might have an easier time trying to find someone who can help them.

I've posted this message to discuss the ever-elusive Alpha Trance.  Well, it can be elusive to some people.  I have heard people on this forum describe it as mind-awake/body-asleep, mind-asleep/awareness-awake, mind-awake/eyes-aleep, etc.

  People also express how important it is to AP that a person be able to achieve and maintain trance meditation.  I have read that "AP is not hard once you achieve this state."  (Someone even mentioned that, after achieving a trance, she simply "rolls" out of her body, which implies that exit techniques are not as important as achieving trance)  But since I have not projected yet, I am not sure whether or not I have achieved trance meditation. (even though I have experienced some pretty intense sensations.  Like what The Bruce describes as a feeling of being "swollen" or "far away; not sure where you are.")

I hope that people will post the answers to these FAQs:

1) How does a person KNOW they are in a trance?
   What are the signposts?
   What is the mind state?
   How long does it take for different people?
   Etc.

2)How does one achieve a Trance?
   What are the different techniques?
   What things are important to keep in mind while meditating?
   What is the core principle that is universal to all techniques  of achieving a trance?
   
3) What techniques do different people use once they have achieved trance in order to project?
   How does one execute these techniques without loosing that trance?

(AND WHAT ABOUT THETA TRANCE?)

Hey Major,

I understand what you mean by staying awake being the hardest part.  I tried last night, but I can't remember dozing off.  I'll try again to see what happens.

I've been doing energy work and meditation fairly regularly for about a year now.  Do you think that this method works well regardless of chakra development and such?

Tonight I plan on making myself a little more uncomfortable (at least for the first few hours) we'll see how that works.  I'll let you know what happens tommorow morning.

(this is a reply to your last message to me about Bruces' doc.)


Oh I see Patrik,

That really gives me something to chew on, but, as always, there is nothing much to do except practice.

words are very hard to work with when describing meditation.  For all I know, we may be doing the same thing.

The technique I use and have heard of from many sources is to be aware of nothing.  Then again, it's more like I'm aware THAT I'm aware of focusing on nothing.  Somehow observing the self as if I were not myself.  Often times, this works better for me, but only when I'm in a focused enough state that I can maintain such awareness.

When I say I prepare for this awareness with focus exercises, I mean that I need to do these exercises so that I am dedicated enough to the task at had to carry it out.

Blah Blah blah.  I could go on, but basically its important that each person do what works best for them, I just think that the best technique for a person isn't nessicarilly the easiest, but one that builds a good foundation.

Hey Pat,

I think I just found something that would better explain your problem.

Go to this page <http://www.astralpulse.com/guides/oobe/oobe_8.htm#5>

This is part of The Bruce's Treatise of OOBE.  If the link doesn't work, go to the astralpulse homepage, click on training, Treatise on OOBE, look at park 7, and click on Lost Focus During The Exit.

If you haven't read this whole document I would suggest doing so.  If you have read it, but it's been a while, I suggest reading it again. (I've recently found several answers to my questions that I didn't know were in the document until I read up on them.)

This little paragraph is good news for me because it means that I may have projected already, but lost my focus and didn't allow my astral body to impress the memories onto me.

I hope this helps.

I don't feel that way at all Holy Reality.  Last trance meditation I had when I was using the simulate sleep feeling worked pretty well. I hadn't slept much the night before and didn't sleep at all that night.

Have you been establishing a good solid focus at the beginning of your meditation?  I usually don't feel like doing it because I think I can handle it without a preliminary focus exercise, but whenever I don't do it, I always lose focus and tend to fall asleep.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but I'll tell you what feelings I get when I do trance meditation:

I like to start with a focus exercise (to get rid of daydreams.  Are you doing the opposite?) where I hold the number 1 in my mind as long as possible without breaking focus (I usually go up to 6 or 5)

Next, instead of falling or floating down, I try what some one else has called "turning the sleep key" (this is just giving yourself the feeling of nodding off to sleep.) until my body gets heavy and I continue to stay focused on either nothing or on my breathing.  What I haven't figured out how to get on command is the feeling of largeness/swolleness/feeling of being far away, which I consider to be reaching the trance state.

Blah blah blah...maybe I've said more than you wanted, but the point is, I think you would do well to stay up all night this Friday and look for the feeling of sleepyness.  Pay attention to how you feel in this state and I guess you should be able to "simulate it" for your meditations.

The thought had crossed my mind that people might not be truthful about thier rank, but I thought that most people would be sincere.

I guess what I was thinking about when i wrote this post was people taking every scrap of advice they find on this site and trying it all at once.  I know it is good that a person should find what is most comfortable with them, but I also think that the biggest problem with new projectors is the lack of consistency in training.

so on and so on... but these are all things that we're just going to have to learn ourselves and another ranking system wouldn't solve them

I think this is pretty much what I go through every time I hit that strange feeling of heaviness, lightness, largeness, etc. and any time I try to do anything other than maintain the feeling, it goes away and I feel the same way you do: like I've lost the trance and am fully awake.  I don't know if it's a bad thing because I always become very very clear-minded and awake after I've reached and lost this state.

I don't have any definate answers, but I think I'll just try to focus on sticking with it for longer meditation periods.  Instead of reaching this state and trying to project after a few minutes, I think i'll try to maintain this state for an hour or so.

From what I gather, the biggest proplem with my inability to project is a lack of long-term dedication, but I'm improving.  I used to not want to meditate for more than an hour, now I wish I had three hours most of the time.  The point is, I'm just going to keep trying and continue to improve.  Looking back and noticing my progress really pushes me forward.

I guess basically what I'm saying is take things one step at a time.  If we keep working with the trance state, mental focus, and especially energy work, we should both be able to project sooner or later.

(My heart does the same thing sometimes and I know its not my heart chakra.  I'm not sure what to tell you, but your probably right in that it's not that big a deal)

Thanks AlphaOmega,  I'll try that technique.

I've heard, "When you are in a trance, you'll know it." However, I think i've gotten to the point where I really have no idea what sensations I'm looking for (even though I may have reached a trance).

I used to think that when I felt expanded and lost I was in a trance, but then thought I should be waiting for more sleeplike feelings (like mental and physical heaviness), but these sleep-like feelings are nowhere near as intense and wonderful as the expanded state.

I was once at a point where I thought a trance was simply when my body was a little tingly from not moving very much.

I guess my real question is, "What does a trance feel like?" and I'd like to hear it from some one who knows FOR SURE.

(No offense, but when trainees who have never achieved OBE are telling other trainees what they THINK is right, it could really throw people off.  I think there should be a ranking system that let's everyone know what level of APer a member is on this site.)

Well, blackstream, you're probably ahead of me, but I do know that you're experience has some signposts of AP that others have posted on this forum.  I'm starting to read more and more posts about people who use exit techniques as simple as rolling out of bed.

You've probably read similar forum posts yourself, and it makes me wonder if I'm doing things the hard way by trying to get out with the rope insted of reaching a state that feels like I'm ready to AP.

You say she has had no experience in AP.  I recall reading elswhere on these forums about how the work that is needed to AP is more a safety precaution than a barrier.  If the spirit is not ready to project, it won't, but perhaps she is an exception.

My point is that she might try the AP exercises suggested by Robert the Bruce (namely energy work).  Of course, this idea would only hold water if she not "spiritually fit", so to say.  If, however, she is experienced in meditation and such, then I don't know what to say.

I agree with what someone else said about never hearing about physical problems as a result of AP.  I still don't AP yet, but I've read a lot about it (two books and pleanty of other articles) and they have never mentioned anything like this.

(I also agree with the doctor thing...yeah.  She might have a condition which has nothing to do with AP.)