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Hey guys,

I think there is another good way of approaching LD-ing. I have had the most success from learning to train the subconscious mind to alert the conscious mind when you are dreaming.

By doing this, your conscious mind wakes up during the dream. Because the body is still asleep, this puts you in the perfect state for LD.

Robert Bruce gives a number of methods for how to achieve this. The one that works best for me is using reality checks during the day when you are awake. Train yourself to regularly check your surroundings. Ask yourself such questions as:

Am I awake?
Am I dreaming?
Do my surroundings seem real?
Are they the same as I am used to?
etc.....

When this becomes a normal part of your day, you will find that it happens in your dreams as well, allowing you to ID when you  are dreaming!

Give it a shot, hope it works for you.

Mike.

Wow, thats all really interesting stuff!

Do you guys have any thoughts on the ability to project from a lucid dream? Often when I begin to lucid dream, I find myself floating in my room or near my body, like I have suddnely projected. Is there any good way of checking weather you are lucid or OB? I used to look at my hands to see if they are solid or opaque, but this doesnt seem to reliable anymore.

Mike

Many posts have on this forum have have put forward comments and questions relating to proof and validations of OBEs. More often than not it seems that the proof lies in the belief and knowledge of the projector that the experience is real and valid.

Although I do not require solid proof of experiences, I cant help but wonder why proof is so diffucult to come by in a way that is believable and presentable. Is it a universal filter that forces people to develop their own beliefs to a degree that they 'know' (even if it takes many lifetimes)?

It seems apparent to me that each person must experience the opposites and extremes of each aspect of life (at some stage) so that true choices can be made, and true levels of existance can be experienced in places other than the physical world. Maybe if this were not so, and everyone was uber spiritually aware (due to proof) then this progression could not take place. But whats the meaning of it all?!

I guess its a topic that can go around in circles with no real answer, but id like to hear what people think of it all!

Mikeman

Although I have had quitea few projections, none of them have been conscious in that i sit down and decide to project. When I attempt this and enter the trance state, my breathing and heart beat become so strong and deep that I feel like I am about to die! My heart feels like it is working too hard...[B)]

Robert Bruce in Astral Dynamics suggests that this is not actually a physical sensation, but is the projected double trying to raise enough energy to exit...nonetheless, I still feel like I am physically going to die!!

Does anyone have any input as to this being a physical or energy-body sensation??

Wanting to live,

Mikeman

Hey guys,

I am curious to hear if anyone here has had exactly the same dream as is described below...as I have recently met 3 other people (all of whom have OBE and some are psychic)who have had EXACTLY the same dream, down to the detail. It was peculiar! I went to my phychic the other day. She was telling me about this dream she had when she was younger... after she had said only a few words, i was able to finish off the description, with her inserting details at the same time.

...In a deep sleep...[|)]

I appear sitting on a stool in an enormous room with a black and white checkered floor. The walls of the room are so far away i cannot see them...there is just blackness, and the floor spreads in all directions around me creating a horizon in the distance. As I sit on the stool i can sense a balloon typed object infront of me, but cannot see it. The balloon is so large I cannot comprehend its magnitude. I begin to feel very very small. This contrast in sizes becomes more and more powerful as I can feel the balloon growing in size. This feeling of contrast becomes so overwhelming I am woken up.

I have had this dream countless times, and also get the sensation when I am awake now. I tend to get it on the days that I have OBE, but Im not sure if there is a connection.

Any thoughts guys?? Just seems wierd that several different people with similar abilities have had the same dream!...hmmm

Have a good one yall []

Mikeman

Hey everyone, Just found this forum and am having fun checking everyones experiences out.  

A few months ago i had my first OBE completely by accident. In fact, i had no idea what was happening, i had left my body and couldnt stand up because i kept flying away around the room. I would get deep vibrations and paralysis while just minutes after going to bed. Once i knew what was happening i could fly outside and above the city with no worries. But now that i want to keep having OBE its not happening much anymore! Sometimes it happens when going to sleep, but usually i get closer during trance. Does anyone elses OBE's have an attitude like mine? How did you all start having OBE?

Mikeman

Hey jenia_san,

In my opinion, OBE from lucid dream is definately possible! The physical state of being completely conscious while asleep seems perfect conditions for an OBE to occur. On several occasions I have OBE from a lucid dream simply by being aware of it, and can usually feel the vibrations in my physical body as I begin to fly around in the lucid dream. Does this happen to you? For a long time I was curious weather this was actually an OBE just like you are, and after some experimentation, decided it definately was!

Some of the things I checked were:

i) Weather hands faded away when they are looked at
ii) Weather senses such as hearing ect were sharp and super real or dream-like as in normal OBE

What do you think?

Mike

Excellent! Ill just push through it. Thanks guys!

Wow, so you think rapid eye movement could be a cause. I hope the symptoms reduce as time goes on and with future conscious exits. Thanks for your help [], ill start by taking my pulse when it happens next. I took my pulse last time simply by feeling the heart beat in my chest since it was so pronounced, but I guess this probably isnt an accurate measure as I could be feeling the heart chakra pulsating (is that right??). Also, I dont know much about REM so ill delve into that and throw a few web searches into the mix to see what I can find...

Mikeman

Hey samsara,

In my own experience, physical sensation during OBE seem to be enhanced. I feel the briskness of the wind very much during OBE, but like thelou said, there is no discomfort, just the experience. Do you seem to have concious thought during your flying dreams? If you do then maybe they are OBEs!!! Any re-entry or exit sensations?!? These are all good indicators too.

Also, next time you have a flying dream, it may be very helpful to look at your hands to see if they melt away. I think it is quite a common and good rule of hand as to weather it is an OBE. I use it all the time and seems to be very reliable. If they do melt away it is likely an OBE, whereas if they do not, it is likely a dream. I have wondered before if one can dream about the hands melting away?!? That might throw a spanner in the works, but so far this has worked for me!

Let us know what happens []

hey cairnsb,

Sounds like you used your 'real time vision'! Do you remember if you were able to use your body? I find paralysis occurs often during real time visions, and also experience the ear buzzing, vibrations and falling sensation. These are mostly symptoms of raising your energy and entering a level of trance.

Have you OBE before? Its just a step away from OBE, and with a little focus on pulling away from your body you can buzz out usually quite easily (as long as your cat doesnt act up hehe). There are alot of techniques in 'Astral Dynamics' that you can use, but i think you will find that any technique that involves centering your attention outside of your body will usually work quite well.

Focusing on the buzzing in the ears seems to be a good measure of how much energy has been raised. You guys agree?

Mikeman

hey antigravity and findtruth

well, it does work for me, but I think everyone has their own techniques. I have been lucky in that OBEs started happening to me without any effort on my part. They just happened! sometimes while going to sleep, sometimes during meditation.

However, now i can sometimes bring in on conciously. I think you will find that once the mind is clear and your body goes to sleep(with your mind wide awake=lots or wierd sensations) you will be able to think much more clearly without coming out of trance. Make yourself feel as if you have no body and you are just floating in space. When you feel vibrations use a technique to get OB! If you were like me the first few attempts, you get a rush of adrenalin that can sometimes pull you out of it. I think you can beat this after your first few attempts.

As for how long it takes to OBE, its different for everyone! But energy work DOES HELP ALOT!! It is also important in spiritual development, so you cant go wrong. It will make OBEs alot more natural and common for most poeple.

Hope ive been of some help hehe, this is just what helps me. If anyone else has ideas, jump in

Good luck with your attempts! post them up []

mikeman

Hey guys, I think an important trick is NOT to contentrate. If you can practice clearing your mind of those (damn) surface thoughts and leave your mind like a clear slate, absolutely no concentration is required. The clearness of mind leaves no space for thoughts to be generated...I find this is when it all begins to happen, and a strong trance state begins [|)]

What makes this easier, is that often once this stage is reached, even very concious thoughts usually will not be enough to break your state. Energy work helps ALOT! The separation should occur if all goes as planned.

Keep it up! [] and kiauma is right on:

quote:This is not a hindrance. This is an opportunity to work through your fears, to find your weakness and get past it. This is the spiritual path.

It takes time

Mikeman

Wow! [] thanks for all your contributions! Its exciting to hear that other people have experienced almost exactly the same thing. Plus, it seems that the differences in experiences can be attributed to different perspectives and beliefs. But nonetheless, we tend to describe the same experience in different terms.

thelou, I very much agree with your thoughts on the size differential relating to being a part of God. The dream feels like one is able to experience the magnitude of "God" for just a moment. Maybe in this physical plane our brains cannot deal with this and wake us up.

A couple of you have mentioned the resemblance of the black and white checkered floor to astral plane entrance structures. Is it possible to enter (or feel the affects of) these areas either conciously or during a dream? Im not sure what an astral plane experience is like (apart from reading Astral Dynamics) as during OBE I have only been able to visit the RTZ.

Lifebreath, could you please expand on your explanation of "syzygy"? Is it similar to the Yin-Yang ballance of energy?

If anyone else has had any similar experiences id love to hear them.

Mikeman

Far out, just wrote a reply that came out all screwed up! oh well...

Anyway complexette...Yeah it would be pretty crazy to have your hand flying around! I think she is pretty used to it now though, she has had over 100 visits to day. Most of the visits aim to teach her how to heal others. The spirits tell her that they came to her because she is a doctor and is therefore influential, respected. Also, she has the correct energy level to be open to it. As for weather she tells her clients that she has been taught to heal through autowriting or not im not sure! Ill have to find out more.

An interesting aside: I gained confirmation of OBEs and Channeling through my aunts autowriting...

My grandfather recently passed away. Within a few days, i recieved messages from him during meditation and partially during OBEs. My aunt was unaware of my experiences. A couple days later she channeled my grandfather also (through autowriting). In the text that she wrote, he mentions and confirms the experiences I had! Amazing

Tayesin, that sounds really interesting, are the texts from the visitations available? Its hard to believe there are so many skeptics on topics like this when there is so much evidence!

I agree, habit seems to have a significant affect on perception during OBE

Catmeow, have you ever thought about having 360 degree or spherical vision while OOB? This might work as imagination tends to have a big affect on the creating of a reality while OOB. Ive never thought about it, and generally have trouble remembering to do things like that while OOB...

My brain hurts trying to imagine that...[xx(]
Come to think of it, how come most cant do that when OOB? its not like we have eyes or anything?

Complexette,

quote: Originally posted by Complexette

"Why, How could channeling happen during an OBE? Is that normal, should I be worried???" Complexette/ Jamie

I believe it comes in different forms for every person. My aunt is woken up in the middle of the night by spirits, and her hand automatically writes pages of script. She is a doctor and many of her pacients that have passed away come through to her. Even people she does not know come through with messages for loved ones. During OBE I recon 'channeling' is likely to occur...to even be in the OBE state your energy must be higher than usual. The higher your energy the closer you become to having the energy level of a spirit being. If spirits can lower their energy level slightly it allows us to communicate with them. I think its all very natural and is nothing to be afraid of! If it happens then it is meant to, and do your best to try and learn from the experience! enjoy it []

Have you heard of 'Conversations with God'? It is a text by Neale Walsche. It is a dialogue between a channel (Walsche) and God. Check it out![]

Hey, just wanted to add that i know quite a few people who hear bells just before they channel a spirit. I think the vibration of bells is important in raising energy for some reason... any thoughts?

Mikeman

I didnt help much hey! I recon more energy work while not OBEing would get the energy running a bit more smoothly. Also those breathing exercises mentioned in ASTRAL DYNAMICS during OBE can help draw energy from the body to gain vision and control. I usually find these to be pretty affective (but not always!). If you relax and focus on seeing this can often solve the problem also. If you are already doing these things, sorry! Its hard to know how experienced you are...[]

I would think that if a lack of energy was raised, maybe this would affect your bodies ability to remember the event as actually occuring (as well as not being able to see!). I find that my clearest memories of OBEs are when the energy raised is high...you too?

Hey CSteel,
Thought you might be interested (as I was to hear yours!) to know that my first OBE's were exactly the same as yours; paralysis, real time sight etc. I had my sea legs first time out, but eventually got the hang of it. It happens to me often now when i try and go to sleep, but havnt had much luck bringing it on conciously. If you get it going id be really interested to know how [8D]

Thanks nick! Will check that stuff out. Actually, I have read Astral Dynamics, but I think i might try and get ahold of the other one too. Its so frustrating that while i was indifferent about the whole thing I was  having more experiences than i could handle, and that once i started using techniques (After reading Astral Dynamics) everything stopped. My body must just be 'out of the zone'.

Have you had success with that Draege? Like you said, the less you want things, the more they tend to come to you...grrr

With regards to the black hole shamozel, one would think that if a singularity had the ability to cause space fabric to reach a point at which the laws describing it break down, that other planes entangled in the physical space plane (astral plane included) might also reach a critical point at the singularity. Darn that was a long sentence..! What do you think?