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This is a topic that people seem to polarize on.  
Some schools of thought say that one NEEDS a teacher and guide for spiritual progression.  
Others say that this is a hinderance and one can easily raise their consciousness through their own devoted effort.
For example, people learning Kabbalah, Sufism, Remote Viewing, Yoga etc. all seem to need a teacher for different purposes to help them along their way.  This makes sense, but at the same time we live in a society where one almost NEEDS to be their own guru.
Most of us work or are in school, and even if one finds a teacher, moving and family issues are so frequent.
Can one really know how to improve themselves and what steps to take?  
If so, what are the practices that a guruless spiritual seeker involves him or herself in?  Journaling, meditation, and what else?  
SOmetimes I feel like making my own way through all the information and hardships is difficult without someone to assist and other times I feel as if it's the best way to be.  
Please add your opinions about the matter and if you're in a similar situation tell me how you deal with these issues.

Hello friends,
It's been a long long time since I last posted on this board.  
I'm working a lot these days on spiritual development.  OBEs is what got me on this path, but now I see that there is so much more than just OBE stuff.  I've ever met some pretty bad people who are into this stuff.  
I have begun meditating, practicing yoga, reading up on all the mystical traditions, and trying to be mindful and present in everything I do.  Of course none of this is easy.
Robert often talks about what a hard life the spiritual minded folks will lead.  This honestly scares me, though I would rather take some pain along with spiritual advancement than leave that path.  
This is from
This is from one of Robert's articles:
"Being good and striving hard for spiritual development is often not enough. Strength and spiritual maturity are required to accomplish great things in life. And these things always have a steep price tag. If ones hearts desire is to do great spiritual works, then one needs great spiritual strength and maturity. If these are not preexisting, life has many ways to teach what is necessary to realize ones goals. Hard life lessons are usually involved and many fall by the wayside.

For example, if one aspires to a spiritual level where one is capable of healing the sick, or casting out bad spirits, or seeing into the future, one must understand that these are not easy things to learn and do. All require great strength of character and spirit. If one does not have these, one could not withstand the negative spiritual forces the realization and use of these abilities would invoke. Taking this into account, one must either rethink ones goals and expectations or be prepared for it when life provides the necessary. The lessons involved may entail great suffering, physically, emotionally and spiritually. If this is accepted, and the lessons weathered stoically and good-naturedly, they will be of far shorter duration than they might otherwise be. This is sage advice to all who aspire to great spiritual attainment."

What is everyone's thoughts on this matter?  Have others who are involved in spiritual progress going through a lot of hardship or can this be transcended?  Is Robert right to say that it is almost inevitable?  

Hello!
I was curious what all of you think about third eye development.
I have started doing yoga recently and a large part of the deep meditative practices include concentrating on your third eye.  
I am not sure what to think.  I know Robert stresses that you need to develop your whole energy body piece by piece.  He said it's dangerous to start with this sort of work.  
At the same time, many of these antient practices which as yoga, call upon one to work heavily on the third eye.  
I would not want to start concentrating on my third eye in meditation if I thought it would cause serious spiritual problems.  
I have been reading a lot by many of the sages and seers of India and it seems as if third eye work is a staple in deep spiritual development.  I know that Robert says the same thing.  Should I be cautious with this and do NEW at the same time as I'm doing my yogic practices?  I'm not sure if these systems would clash or if they would compliment each other.  Does anyone have advice on this?
Thank you!
-Usiim

I've read Robter's book a few weeks ago and though I've employed energy development and meditation I am somewhat unsure about what other defenses to try.  
My problem is that my girlfriend has had psychic nighttime attacks throughout her life.  Nothing like a posession or anything like that that I'm sure of.  Mainly just hearing voices, seeing shadows move, being drained of energy, feeling of "another person inside her mind".  She is an intelligent girl and gets scared very easily.  
This is one reason she would be seen as an easy target.  I also feel as if it might be hereditary.  Her whole family goes through these types of things.  She also has bad sleeping problems and once in a while has projected without knowing what it was before she met me.  
Well, last night I was even home alone and I had a dream(?) where I would feel like I was sort of awakening, maybe a partial projection, but I feel as if I need to gain control of myself and I feel as if there is a negative presence there.  
In my dream a woman comes to me and tells me that it is a psychic attack.  I tell her that I'm scared to directly attack anything or to cause too many problems because I am afraid of a greater attack.  She says that she does ahead and does whatever she can to get rid of these things.
I then say a Muslim prayer in my dream mind, since I was raised Muslim, it rings in a beautiful way and it seems as if it is beautiful and a strong resistence against whatever it is.  I feel as if the prayer is a light in this dark and eerie sleep.  I use this prayer as a mantra.  
I wake up confused and wondering what to do about this this problem.
Where should I start?  I have read Robert's book and I don't know what to employ without worrying too much about a NEG reprecussion.  
As for my girlfriend, I want to desperately help her, since i feel as if her NEG problem is rubbing off on me.  She is very scared and feels as if doing nothing would work.  I don't know if she's ready to change.  
If I use a lot of the countermeasures and work on being more spiritually wholesome, will that in turn rub off on my girlfriend?
I'd appreciate any advice.  Thanks!

It is currently 8:30 in the morning.  I planned on sleeping until 9 today but I woke up at 6:30 to think about this experience much more.  
I had a dream that Jim Henson's son was a large black man and I wanted him to get me a job.  
I realized this was a dream and calmly did the rope technique and kept telling myself I was leaving my body.  
I emerged in my room.  It was dark and I wasn't too excited just being there in my house.  I concentrated on leaving and hopefully going to an astral plane.  
I went through a shift in perception...
Then I materialized in one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.  
It was a beautiful tropical place and I feel as if I've been there before.  In fact, I think I might have been.  The water and sky are the most vibrant blue you could imagine.  I feel a cool and refreshing breeze.  
I find myself on a high up boat with probably ten or twelve people on it.  There is a woman with two children that I talk to.  
After some small talk I ask the woman if she knows what Earth is.
She humorously says," OOOhh, like the Mediteranean!"  I find that hilarious because it is the only think she thinks of when I mention Earth.  
I ask her where we are.  She says we are in Urg.  I keep telling them how beautiful it is and how much I love this place.  
I then realize that in order to remember this experience I should probably head out soon.  I tell them that I should get back to my body in a little bit.  The two children look sad.  I promise that I'll return sometime soon.  
A man laying on the boat enjoying the sun laughs at me.  
I say how I won't remember if I don't leave then.  I tell them all goodbye.  
I then keep saying remember over and over to myself.  
I feel a falling sensation and I'm back in my bed with chills going down my spine from such an awe-inspiring experience.  
I'm still thinking about this quite a bit considering it only happened a few hours ago.  Maybe I should attempt to return to Urg sometime soon...

These days I have been confused on the place faith plays in spiritual development.  I know that many many religious people go on and on about how great faith is.  Is it believing in the indesribable that one can never really put into words and make others understand?  Or is it simply a nice way of saying following something that you simply feel is true?
Part of my feels as if SOME faith might be needed.  For example, it is difficult to show clear proof that there is a God.  That word itself might be limiting for some, but whatever one would call that "divine light".  For me, I do believe in God but if someone asked me for proof I wouldn't be sure how to satisfy them.  I guess the inner feeling is what really counts.  
This brings me back to the idea of faith.  Maybe that's the biggest faith one can have.
I have also heard many people say that faith is simply a blind belief in something one is not sure about.  
At this point in time I just am not sure what to think about faith.  I've been reading some Thomas Merton a little these days and he seems to talk about how faith is so important to leading a spiritual life.  I'm really not sure.  
Perhaps many of these great spiritual and mystic people see faith as an indesribable force that one simply "feels" and "knows".  This could be similar to what the Hindus desribe as the Brahman.  It cannot be put into words.
I'd like to know what others think about this.
It's a complicated issue and I know there will be a lot of different viewpoints on this.

Hello friends
I'm new to this forum.  Some of you might know me from the Astral Society though.  Anyway, I had a strange experience yesterday.  
I was studying in the library at my college with a friend.  I started wondering if it was possible to go OOB in a crowded place.  I was feeling tired and relaxed and decided to give it a try.  
The confusing thing, is that it worked only for, what felt like maybe 30 seconds.
I heard strange murmuring of people turn into strange, otherworldly sounds.  Then I started vibrating and ended up seeing outside.  I was only slightly above my body.  
I swung my hands in front of my face.  At first I saw nothing, then I saw what seemed like see through-like hands that were very fluid.  I then read a sign that was up and had clear letters.  I later verified this when I awoke!  I hadn't read it before the OBE.  
ALso, my friend was next to me studying and I tried to yell at her and grab in her direction, but she didn't notice.  I had trouble moving around and eventually the noise must have snapped me back into my body, and back into conciousness.  
This was an extremely interesting and bizarre experience.  Has anyone else had anything like this?  
I didn't know it was possible to do this in a crowded place.  This experience also gave me a verifiable thing, which was the sign with big block letters which I examined in this state.  
Any feedback would be helpful!
-Usiim

It seems to me that most religions lose a lot of their spirit when they become "institutions".  Especially when government and politics become so involved.  There is always that beauty and spiritual depth for those that care to dig.  
Siddhartha is one of my favorite books by the way.  All is Atman...

Hello friends,
I haven't posted on Robert's website in a long time.  I'm glad to see these new forums.  
I am a Muslim and follow the Sufi path.  I am not saying that I am a Sufi or that Sufism is at all different from Islam.  To me Sufism is the spiritual heart of Islam.  In the end, all of these labels are not important.
Islam simply means Submission to the will of God.  Sufis main concern is raising conciousness by overcoming the Nafs(ego/lower self).  This is done through love.  In the Qur'an it says that everywhere you turn there is the face of God.  For the Sufi, the most important thing is La Ilaha Ilallah.  That is that nothing exists besides God.  That means that everyone and everything must be respected and every action must be done with grace and love.
To me the message of Islam and Sufism is beautiful and simple.  I do not think that it is unique though.  Islam claims to be simply a continuation of messages given to 124,000 messengers throughout time.  These include Muhammad,Abraham, Moses Jesus and many would add Buddha, Krishna and others to the list.
Of course, as Carl Jung says, there is always a shadow.  There is a dark side to every religion and I think its dangerous to ignore it.  Islam has its dark aspects just as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism and every other faith does.
Islam is a path that many walk towards enlightenment and peace.  Just look at many of the great mystics of Islam such as Rumi, Hafiz, Ibn Arabi, Bawa Muhaiyaddeen and Hazrat Inayat Khan to see the beauty in the religion.  
I suggest reading Atom From the Sun of Knowledge by Lex Hixon or anything by the above.  
I'm not an expert on Islam or Sufism, I am still learning.  

I agree that asceticism is something many people take from this.  I know that none of you are speaking of self imposed suffering.  
Where does inner peace fit in?
Doesn't living a spiritual, balanced life prevent many of the negative aspects of life from affecting us?  Do the ups and downs stay, yet our attitudes towards them evolve and cause us to see the depth in everthing that happens?  
It seems like there is so much contradiction.
I also agree that a spiritual life should be a part of our daily lives.  We should be spiritual beings no matter what we're doing.  Seperating them gets us into so many problems.

Doesn't like attract like?  I always believed that raises our conciousness creates peace and harmony both inside of us and in the outside world around us in a way.
Perhaps it is my young age(only 20...) that causes me to fail to see the wisdom of hard life experience as a teacher.  In a way I see it, but I would like to know if it's the only way to progress spiritually(psychic powers excluded), or if one can do it on their own will an bypass some of the sorrow using the wisdom of others as well as our own intuition as a guide.  
Thanks for all of your replies!  Many minds are greater than one...

Thanks a lot for all the helpful comments!  It's overwhelming and very encouraging for me.  
You all have good points.  Many of the great spiritual and religious figures speak of using our intuition and life experience to improve ourselves.  
Let me now get into the nitty gritty of all of this.  If you can be your own guru, how do you reorganize your life so that today you are a better person than yesterday?  My problem is that I feel as if I have all the tools in front of me, yet I am not using them.  This question is important to me because sometimes I feel like it's very difficult for me to better my life, and be consistent in my spiritual practices and purity of mind, body and spirit.
I want to be aware of negative parts of myself and able to correct them on a daily basis.  I would like to be able to live a spiritually wholesome life built on my own beliefs and understanding.  I know Robert talks about this a lot and it's something I admire about him.  Many other great mystics such as Rajneesh and Vivikenanda say the same.  This takes so much dedication.  I would like to hear advice on how some of you act as your own spiritual advisor.  
Keeping a journal of spiritual progress seems be helpful to me.  
Please feel free to share any of your thoughts.  
I appreciate it!

Thanks for all your advce!
I don't think she is interested in working with the spirit world.  It's funny because though I'm into OBE and all that kind of stuff she is sort of frightened by it.  That's the main problem.  She also tries to make excuses and make it seem like maybe it isn't the case with her.  
I did show her PPSD.  We went through it together, and sure enough a lot of the stuff that he described, she had gone through.  I swear, I heard her say, "Oh ya, thats happened to me before" about 20 times.  
That's pretty scary stuff.  I told her that we should try doing some of the exercises and countermeasures but she is a little scared of the idea.  
I'll try talking to into it again.  It's hard because she really is one of the nicest people in the world, and as Robert points out in the book, it's sad how NEGS are probably even more attracted to sensitive and open people.  
I'll do my best and any other advice any of you can provice will be greatly appreciated.  
I would use the hose technique but we live in the city.  Is there an equivilent we could use?

"You serve Him by servicing the children of matter. When you do that, you are within reach of His infinite arms, you are surrounded by His love, which will bring you to perfect peace. "Faith, that is faith alone, sometimes fails when the winds of bitter experience blow. But the faith that is born of knowledge provides a foundation which is so strong that no wind of circumstance can disturb it.

"Blessed are those who believe and have not yet seen, but thrice blessed are they who know and, because they know, place their faith in that which is not yet revealed to them, because they know that the laws of the universe are operated by a power which is love and wisdom.

"You should all have perfect faith, because it is a faith born of knowledge. You have had the proof of the power of the spirit. Now you should have the faith that all things work wisely and well and that, if you put yourselves in tune with the laws of the Great Spirit, then you must reap the operation of those laws.

"You can all banish from your minds the thought that anything that is unenlightened - or, as you would say, evil - can ever touch you. You live and move under the protection of the Great Spirit and His laws.
___________________________________________________________

This is an interesting view of faith.  I fouind this on that spiritual truths forum.  I guess faith could be believing in your true self without getting caught up in the physical ups and downs of the world.  I don't know...

I have yet to try the catch basket technique.  Maybe part of me is scared to tear apart all my beliefs.  I know that this is something I have to do though.  
My list really isn't going to be that long.  Other than OBEs.  
Would belief in God go on a list of old beliefs or not?  I would say that I believe in God but that I can't really prove it in a logical way.  What do others think?

Maybe another aspect of faith is feeling the indescribable.  Maybe it's not about God, Allah, Brahman, Buddha, Divine Light, spirit being something we "have to believe".  Perhaps its a matter of not being able to trasnlate those feelings into words.  Faith might be the place inbetween words and profound spiritual experience.  One could never prove that this exists because our langauge and our physical experiences on a day to day basis give no means of expressing this, let along proving it.  
Maybe there are even different levels of faith.  There is the low level, which would be following what others tell you.  And the highest would be experiencing something that's beyond human description.
I kind of agree that even OBEs have to be taken on a kind of faith.
I'm still not sure exactly and I don't mind if people disagree and bring up other points.  This is still a confusing issue for me.

One easy way to prove this to yourself is to try and meet a recently deceased loved one.  You could argue that this is merely a concoction of the mind, but once you do meet them, you'll know the truth.  The first step to proving anything to anyone is to experiment and see for yourself.  
Good luck!
-Usiim(ers)

I enjoy listening to psychedelic, atmospheric and ambient style music when trying to get into different states.  I have some recommendations, but let me first say, that I have strange taste in music.  I would understand if not everyone finds it agreeable.  
The Boredoms::Vision Creation Newsun
I think the band the Boredoms are amazing.  Their last two CDs have been moving from the noise rock, into a very tribal, atmospheric groove.  Julian Cope compared his first listen to this CD with his first OOBE.  I highly recommend this.  I listened to this CD before an intense OBE once and I think it put me in the right mood.  They are a Japanese, psychedelic/noise rock group.  It works for me.  
Brian Eno: Apollo Atmospeheres and Soundtracks
This album was composed as a soundtrack to an outerspace documentary.  The music is largly airy and beatless.  It will put you in a trance very quickly.  Eno is the master of creating rich rooms of sound.  In this one he recreates the feeling of floating through sounds.  Many of you might know one of these tarcks as being on the Trainspotting soundtrack.  I recommend this CD as well as being good for inducing altered states.  

Most music with too many pop hooks or loud lyrics can distract me when trying to "go somewhere".  I also have some cool jazz cds and ambient compilations which help a lot.  
-Usiim

MY first OBE was about two years ago. The first two times were spontaneous and the first was rather terrifying to say the last.  I heard low murmuring and as I decented from my body, the voices got louder, trying to scare me back in.  This happened a few times and eventually I fell back into slumber and woke up horrified.  I did not understand what had happened.  
This was most likely low astral wildlife as Bruce calls it.  SInce then, when I had heard these things, I ignore them and everything is fine.  The past few times I've had no problems whatsoever.
-Usiim