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I think having like-minded people around and getting together in person to practice or just talk or whatever can be great (and those people can be hard to find, but precious if you do), but I would really advise against joining a 'spiritual' group of any kind, no matter how benign it looks. That's all I can really recommend right now... The community aspect can be beneficial but as soon as spirituality starts to take on religious traits, which it often does when there's organized teaching going on, things can tend to go wrong. That said, I'm going to be taking a Qi Gong course soon and have no problem with that sort of thing, because I'm not joining anything. Courses =/= organisations. Just be careful.

It's an interesting thought that if you look at various religions together, they have certain traits in common... Not that that necessarily validates anything. Do you also know how similar they are, or not, in terms of what 'criteria' the soul is judged by? Because that's quite a relevant issue to those of us who are still alive and can influence our future selves, and certainly from what I've heard from some Christians, it isn't necessarily about the quality of your behaviour and being if you haven't accepted the right religion. Whereas others would say that it's all about developing your consciousness, or your behaviour in life, or your motives deep down regardless of what you did. So many theories...

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with! I don't mind skeptics either, as long as they're open-minded and willing to change the paradigm if the evidence calls for it. And I can't really blame them for going for what they perceive as the most reasonable explanation... As long as they're not obnoxious about it I don't mind listening to it, and on the positive side some skeptics make very good points and can actually be helpful Many of them are trying the best they can with what they have.

To be honest I think the only way these kinds of subjects will really reach the masses and be taken seriously is if they're studied properly (with results, mind you) and that the research is publicized enough... It can actually help a lot of people consider it in a different way than if it's seen as New Age nonsense...

I've had a personal horoscope done by an astrologer and it was eerily accurate on most points. It seems to be able to portray certain character traits of a person at least, even in the general sense with just the 12 signs...

I've also had times in my life where my horoscope for that day was strikingly relevant. I got them as emails in a mailing list I couldn't cancel, so I would read them at the end of the day just out of interest. A number of times they were spot on - a minority of days overall but still enough times for me to consider it seriously - but it was more about the 'mood' of the day.

But there are so many variables to consider and that can change that I'm not sure anyone can predict the future. At the same time, people sometimes see or dream things that happen in that exact way possibly years later, so who knows?

This reminds me of a program I wanted to buy from Robert Bruce. A good man... It's just I do not have $400 at my disposal right now. Besides, the pulse offers SO MANY useful techniques and you can ask as many questions as you want and get a very good answer. Always have liked it here.

I started to question Robert Bruce when he started talking like his programme is cheap enough for anyone to afford (these days? really?) and that people would regret it in the afterlife if they don't. I've been on his mailing list for a while, and I've liked some of what he's written, but on those points I was not impressed. And I won't be giving him any of my money...

I always end up scratching my head when some of the posters on this forum talk to each other... Newbie Won't stick my nose in your business though.

I have to at least agree with the notion that the source matters. Not necessarily what the source is, but that it's something or someone you want to listen to or learn from. Deception is a dangerous thing.

Thank you Doobie for sharing your experience with his programme. I'm fairly sure now that I'm better off saving the money, learning more about hypnosis myself, and finding and/or making my own binaural beats. Since it doesn't seem like he has anything targeting my specific problems (which would have made it seem more worthwhile) it seems kind of pointless to get the programme.

I had an experience once where my hands felt like they were up by my face, even though I knew exactly where I'd put them, resting against my stomach.

I've also had one where my entire body was positioned outside of the bed I was in, hanging horisontally mid-air, with my head still locked in place.

It's just a sort of bodily awareness elsewhere really. You can snap back easily by moving, but those body parts were 'out' before that. It's a good sign! I think those people who have out of body experiences by manually leaving their bodies somehow manage to pull themselves out by the body parts that are out already.

Honestly, we all have to survive in this physical reality.  To do that, it requires money. 
Charging money to teach the stuff we know is a small price really.  For if they didn't charge money, they probably wouldn't be able to survive here long enough to not only learn the skills, but to pass them along. 

Yes, I understand the rationalisation for it, but there's just something that feels off to me about charging for spirituality. I'm not really comfortable with people making a living doing it. Many people can't pay... But it's just my personal feelings about it. I'm ok with other people thinking about it differently... Good thing there's a lot of good info out there for free though.

I really respect Thomas Campbell's approach of keeping his day job, uploading his book for free for anyone to read, and conducting interviews and giving talks... I don't know if anyone else saw the video of Robert Bruce's interview with him recently but there was an awkward moment there when Bruce talked about how talks tend to pay better and Campbell said that oh actually he doesn't charge to do talks. It actually makes me want to buy his book anyway, even if I can just keep reading it online for free.

Wow, that's quite a high price... I guess some people feel very differently about charging money for these things. And I wouldn't expect to have it down after 5 sessions anyway. If only it was that simple...

Thank you for sharing. That was really worthwhile to listen to, especially the part about the source of the data (part 9). I really like the question-and-answer format... Quality as usual.

Thanks for that, personalreality I hadn't heard of him before but I'll look into his work. I actually already have two books on self-hypnosis (including one by Forbes Robbins Blair that I quite liked, called Instant Self-Hypnosis) and have written my own scripts before, and have the points I want for an astral projection script written down at least. I just haven't written it out properly yet.

Your idea of adding that on top of binaural beats sounds good. I actually tried one like that on Youtube (that one was by Rick something) but I'm more comfortable with scripts I've made myself... Probably the case for a lot of people.

Agreed about many of these guided audios being basically hypnosis sessions. Many of the ones I've heard are as textbook as they come, but people rarely acknowledge that... Maybe because it would spook people and make them worry about someone getting inside their heads.

Challenges and monetary rewards aside, I think a lot of people need something more concrete to go on before they're able to really explore these topics. New Agers and the like don't have a very good reputation... And many people are just wired to want things verified - which I think is just natural. To me it seems like providing more evidence could ultimately change things for some people. Skepticism is healthy in itself, as long as it doesn't mean dismissing an idea without good enough reason... Some proof could put these things at least a few notches above fairystories for the scientific-minded. Proving something to other people isn't a goal for me personally, but I still consider it worthwhile.

I can only name one person out there who combines hypnosis with teaching astral projection, which is why it's interesting to me. For those of us who have additional different issues than the average person who tries this, it's quite possible it may be of help.

And at least with him you know roughly what you're getting and I can say confidently that he's not trying to hook people into a religion or something... Which is the potential downside of spiritual teachers.

I don't really like the money aspect of it though. It makes me uncomfortable, because there are so many people out there who can't pay.

Thanks for your input Lionheart. I'll take that as a 'no' about there being anything in the programme itself that specifically addresses subconscious limiting beliefs. I may need to work something out on my own... I've come to believe that hypnosis has an effect on me from trying it on other things (and that belief may be all that's needed, right?) so it may be able to help with this too.

@Xanth: Yeah that's a point to consider too Thanks.

Thank you for your answer. My problem isn't so much about it being real vs not - I've done it before. My problem is that while I KNOW on some level that I can do it, there's another level that's convinced I can't (other people can, just... not me), and it's really getting in the way. Do you think the hypnosis sessions in his programme might be of help here? Cause whatever else I've done only seems to access the surface parts, if that makes sense...? On that level I'm convinced, but the problem lies deeper.

Lionheart, since you own his programme, maybe you could answer a question for me. As I said in my post above yours, I'm considering buying it, but it would help to know if the content addresses my problem at all. As we're all well aware of, there's an element of 'believing you can do it' involved in our success (or lack thereof) with astral projection. The problem is, I don't. On some level I do, I really do, but I've come to see that one of the problems I have is that there are some deep-rooted issues with not believing it's possible for me to be successful at it. (It's a long story but basically it's been drilled into my head over many years, unintentionally from basically everyone that's contributed.)

Do the hypnosis sessions address problems like mine in any meaningful way? Basically, is there anything substantial in his programme that you think could turn the ship around for someone who has the self-belief thing down on the surface but not beneath? If it could help address this then it would be well worth the price tag, because nothing I do on the surface seems to put a dent in the underlying things, so I could use some help in some form. Hypnosis has helped me with other things, so I'm thinking it might be worth a go. I would appreciate any input on this, thanks

Good thread! I'm not familiar with most of the suggestions here, I think I have some reading to do

I would also suggest My Big TOE by Thomas Campbell. It's available for free on Google Books. I'm not finished with it yet (it's a big book) and it can be quite a heavy read, but I'm really enjoying it so far. He's one of the guys who worked with Robert Monroe in the early stages of The Monroe Institute's research.

I've had the same concerns as the OP, something sounds a bit off... I'm still undecided about his programme, which is why I haven't bought it - yet. But I'm considering it since there are people here vouching for its quality... Lionheart saying it's good stuff makes me consider it seriously. I'm not entirely convinced about his (Jones') motivation though.

As for the marketing - some people truly believe that something is/works better the more you pay for it, so raising the price is just good marketing that works on some people. (Others find it problematic though - personally I don't believe in making money off spiritual things because I've been trained to see it as more of an altruistic thing, but that's just me.) Regardless of his credentials, he's quite a big name so if he can increase his prices for a private session, maybe it's understandable that he would. He does cater to the celebrity crowd, who might not like it at all if it sounds 'cheap'. Sounds like a ridiculous price to me and I wouldn't pay for that, but some would. Fair enough.

To be honest I find his marketing and videos less offputting than some of what Robert Bruce has said (and his tone much of the time). And he's actually much less pushy than Bruce and some of the other programmes at Mindvalley (same marketing company he uses).

But if the binaurals work then it might be worth it just for that. If it works, it works. If buying his programme activates some sort of placebo effect that actually works on me then I'd consider that a small price to pay for a good result to be honest. The placebo effect is, in my mind, a good thing as long as it does no harm. I would absolutely love to have a placebo thing that worked on some of my health issues, so why not this...

I think I've sort of talked myself into buying it now If that 2-for-1 offer happens again I'll probably post about it on this forum. And I think it has a money back guarantee too, not that I don't have a tendency to miss the deadlines for those things but at least it's something.

It's only 'the wrong time' if it frustrates you if it doesn't work. This can lead to a lot of frustration with it in general, which you really don't want, so make sure you just let it go and avoid getting worked up about it if the successes don't happen straight away. Take it with a smile and try again some other time. Other than that you can try anytime - feel free to try whenever you have 20 minutes alone, or 5 minutes even...! If you're getting symptoms that means you're getting somewhere, so keep trying Keep experimenting with different times but don't get too hung up about what you can do when. It seems to vary anyway. Remember also that it can take a while before people get their first one, sounds like you're well on your way if you've only been at it for a month. Good luck!

It may be more complicated, or it may be as simple as it seems at first glance - you may have been partners in a previous life, and now is the time for you to reunite and continue exploring together. I would just embrace it, and maybe you'll be able to find an answer sometime, together. Two people trying opens all kinds of new doors for verification if you both find the same things in your search.

Good for you anyhow! Is it ok to be a little jealous?

Even Thomas Campbell encourages people to question what they're doing and find ways of testing things, proving things, making them objective somehow, finding out if it's all in your own head. I forget his wording. But this is essential for exploring reality, not just the reality we can create. I thought his description of how he felt when he had a verifiable shared experience with Dennis Mennerich was really interesting. They were working with Robert Monroe at the time and were in separate sound-and-everything-else insulated rooms describing their experience into a microphone as they went. Their experiences matched. I hope to do something similar someday.

In my opinion, and that's all it is, there needs to be some proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that at least ONE of our experiences was real in the sense that it took place with the consciousness outside of the physical body, even if it's just getting through half a deck of cards on the top shelf and getting them right. If we don't have that, then it's essentially just like television - entertainment. And if it turns out I can't verify anything, then that's what I'll consider it.

I'm finally to the point where I'm so mad inside that I don't even feel mad anymore, I just 'am mad'.

You might get a different perspective on all this if you manage to find yourself in the absence of this "mad" feeling.

Thank you! I will try that combination, hopefully it'll work as well for me as it does for you...

I've been getting interesting results much more consistently in the last few weeks with both my mantra meditation (self-made after reading that chapter of My Big TOE ) and binaural beats as well as other practices, it seems like I'm getting closer now... Nice to be 'getting somewhere' again, it's been a while.

Btw you have a very good way of encouraging people We need more of that in the world!

If I should mention one thing which could be considered the "entire thing";
what's remarkable with My Big TOE is that it's _not_ about Campbell's
TOE. He never describes his own TOE. The title of the book is, in my
opinion, incorrect.

I'm still working my way through My Big TOE, but I find this statement puzzling. He spends a LOT of time deriving his Big TOE in the book, most of the book as far as I can tell. I can maybe agree that it's a bit on the heavy side, but the information is there, in detail. Sorry but saying otherwise is, to me, like saying you've read a chemistry book that didn't teach any chemistry. He rarely shares experiences now, and half of me really agrees with that approach - it can give people preconceived ideas which can then materialise, and it can make people go out there to try to replicate what he's found, even though his metaphors may be different from theirs. At the same time I would find it interesting, and probably downright inspiring, to hear more about what he's found 'out there'. But he explains his TOE according to what he's found, encourages people to investigate to develop their own TOE, and explains how to go about doing that. I really don't see the problem. And I don't get the feeling he wants people to agree with him. Just investigate.

Thank you Lionheart. I'm more worried about getting an infected file than spam to be honest (although the email requirement is a barrier, kinda), but good to know it didn't cause problems for you. I might try the shorter versions of them that are up on Youtube for free and if I like them, get the full versions from his site.

Any particular favourites by Paul Collier? I checked his list and there were so many! And I don't think I tried the right ones, they were a bit... odd. If there are nicer ones I'd be happy to try them though.

I used to agree with the criticism that we can do without BBs and want to be able to do it on our own so why use an artificial aid at all, but now I think as you do, that they're just training wheels. Nobody criticises children for using training wheels when learning to ride a bike, lol. If it works, it works - everything else is just preference. If this gets me there faster I'm happy to use them, I don't want to be purist and miss out. The only thing I don't like about them so far is that some of them give me a very distinctive headache and a very 'wrong' almost sickly feeling inside my head. Thankfully I've found some that don't, so I'm still experimenting to find ones I really like