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You are trying to force things (force always creates resistance) instead of watching it grow.

For the same reason I don't venture out into a forest to see what combinations trees have grown,

seems to me you expect to find something new in what already exists in the outer world. Why not just go there and enjoy it's presence and beauty ? Go there, shut of your logical thinking, close your eyes and listen - you will be surprised what you can discover in this boring forest.

It appears to me a many dimensional maze that has the same value as looking at and creating art

it indeed is a kind of art. Actually a atom has a lot of similarity to a piece of music - and it must change to be perceived as such. In it's frozen (dead) state it's just a probability waveform that describes where something *could* happen - if anyone would care who is not saying "why should I watch it, I know the result anyway ..."

but not the behaviors of machines or logical structures that build on other machines or logical structures.

Logic behavior or equations as we know them are only valid in the physical world we live in. And even here the logic equations are no natural law but rather the result of the underlying system. In our computers [1 & 1 = 1] or [1 ^ 1 = 0] is only valid because the underlying system is unipolar binary. If you had a ternary, bipolar or fuzzy system the "logic" would behave differently and seem to us very unlogical. Such logic could e.g. result in forms that cancel each other out. Our system allows only for a simple variant of that. It is called interference and is used in noise canceling. If we could create the four forces/fields (or rather the 4D waveform) synthetically that creates the illusion of matter, we could create such strange behavior. There is a very good reason that such "logic" does not exist in our PMR: if it would be 'allowed' then two spheres placed beside each other would not combine to a larger structure, but instead anihilate each other and make the PMR collapse - but this doesn't mean that our limited understanding of logic is all that is possible.

It appears to me as lacking an important long term stability needed for building structures on other structures, like I can change the "physical world". [...] The life forms that can be made in astral dont seem to have the stability needed to build other things on.

the forms in the PMR neither have that stability, but we don't notice that normally because the decay time is long enough. Everything is instable.

It all frustratingly makes so much sense to me what are the limits of possible realities, where we are and where we can go from here, what reality can become.

The limit is your imagination. From your words I read that you are a logical/rational oriented (aka 'leftbrained') being. Rationalists mainly use existing things, analyze them, take them apart and can put them together in a different order - all based on existing things and laws.
To create new things you need inspiration. Something new can only exist outside the laws that define the system you are currently trapped in. Thus you must be able to tear down the walls that "define" (or limit) your thinking. Beings who can do this naturally we call creative 'artists' (aka 'rightbrained'). The difference between them both is that rationalists are externally oriented and artists are internally oriented (based on the thinking). Artists have/use the connection to the source, while rationalists ignore/deny it. But also rationalists can learn to use it.

[...] but like is not like (-) goes to (+) like magnets so (+) (+) can't go together like there is force which stops it but (-) (+) get together instally so from this example how correct is that you attract what you are?

It has to do with resonance. It's like a radio or tv tuner from the old days; you can only receive (and perceive) what's broadcast on the frequency you are tuned into. Everything else is still there, but you can not perceive it, because you are not tuned in.

This is what the LOA means; if you are tuned into misery, then what you receive and perceive is exactly that.
Got it ?

Tahira

I think the label is what is confusing people. They have no idea what you mean when you talk about "dark" things. [...]

I wanted to say something similar. Does 'dark' always mean 'evil' ? There are some beings who shy the light, who prefer solitude over the company with others - often for good reasons. The dark beings I've met in the PR are the most insightfull I've met so far. Darkness is the screen for the light to appear on; on a perfect white screen you only can have dirty/dark spots - which are always seen as a flaw. In a perfect (white) world all that can happen are bad things.

On the other side: are 'deamons' always bad and angels good ? Or is it just a matter of how we perceive the information field and what our subconscious mind creates from it ? What I've learned from the magic books so far (and even a mathematician, who totally rejects any non-scientific ideas once told me exactly the same about the very basic fundamentals of mathematics and thus all natural sciences itself) is that it *all* is just symbolism, i.e. nothing means anything. It's entirely up to you to fill the symbols with meaning. But if you want to communicate with others you need to have the same the same set of symbols or a translation table at hand ...

Hi,

meanwhile I've come to believe that 2012 was nothing but the end of a cycle of the maya calendar - nothing more, nothing less.

I mean, look at the state the world currently is in. Does this look like an ascension ?

Besides this; some years ago I frequently read in a forum that was run by a hypnotist with leaning to mystic (at times it seemed he is actually more kind of a witch, anyway ...) who did quite a lot of not so normal things. One of them was a channeling session with a higher being. I don't know how this contact was established in the first place, but when he got the permission of the being for a interview, he asked the participants of the forum to provide questions for it. One of them was the "Ascension Theory" of 2012. The answer of the being to this was quite disillusioning. It said "There is ascension and descension. But in general, it's more a descension." On the question why, "Because every soul in the line has to get it's turn."

There was another session where he tried progression or contact with a being from the future (not shure what it actually was). In this session he asked the future being about the past (our future). It stated their history was quite peacefull, although in the distant past there was a last one, but big devastating war somewhere between 2000 and 2025. On the request to try to be more precise it said "I guess it was more around 2015. But it became so serious that outside intervention was necessary. Many died. This was a lesson to mankind."

Unfortunately I can not find the transcript of the session anymore. I'm always skeptic about such statements and more hold on to a "time will tell" attitude, but what I recall from memory from these sessions and compare with the current developments makes my flesh creep ...

Everything happens in parallel, past-present-future. So channeling information from the future is as likely as channeling information from the past. But it's not guarantied that on our way through timespace we will come across that exact point where we got the information from - but once we are past the last exit decision branch on this route, things that are to come will come. The question is: are we yet ?

Hi,

It's a really great technology. Jurgen Ziewe is in the process of programming an entire world for you to explore with this unit.  http://vimeo.com/93016921

just in case you don't know - there is already a entire world available to be explored with the rift - it's called SecondLife.

O M G - either I'm to ethic or to stupid to sell such boxes - technically I'm skilled enough; probably the second one ...

Projection happens in you mind, so *ANY* object you give the power to do it will do it. May it be a technological gadget or a magic tool, or differently said: there is no difference in "effectiveness" between a block of wood or a plastic box with some knobs on it. The only difference might be that you believe stronger in it when you pay hundreds of bucks for a cheap and amateurish assembled plastic box.

What does being wealthy mean to you?

Wealth to me means to be able to do what I want whenever I want it, without needing to bother with other tasks that I don't like but have to do to pay for my living expenses - now and in the future. This could be being employed and having a job that really (!) fullfills me and that I like, it could be being selfemployed with something that I really (!) like. It has nothing to do with money and especially not with the ability to buy status symbols that almost everyone these days so seems to be after. I'm not defining myself by my material properties, since this stays here when I leave anyway ...

A AVS unit is only a tool. I use it solely to achieve a NP focus. You are correct that it consumes your physical eyes, but not necessarily your mind. You can be viewing the lights, but also see a completely different scene, via thought =action right through them. Other times you can experience a dual awareness.

You are right with this. I see it as a tool only too, but mainly experienced dual awareness only. But instead of discussing brands, why not going into the (boring ) technical details ?

I designed four sessions which differ only in length but use the same approach. I start out with harsh sounds modulated at higher frequencies and programmed a constantly falling modulation, using the same modulation frequency for the LEDs and as binaural beats. The deeper it goes, the more the lights are dimmed and the softer the sound gets, until I reach the deep part of the session where the lights are turned off and only a smooth sine sound with ~4Hz binaural beats is present. Unfortunately the Proteus has only 16 steps for the light modulation, so there is no smooth fade out of the light towards the deep part. Interestingly, although the LEDs are only red/green I can see all colors (even turquoise and yellow) during the induction and wakeup parts. I can see all kinds of abstract imagery in psychedelic colors, even a kind of a tunnelflight, but this is more like watching it on a big 2D-screen and no 3D experience. It's all visual, meaning it's caused by the overloaded visual system. Sometimes I'm getting flashes of dual awareness, but somehow I don't get deep enough to get to F10 by this.

What I am wondering is whether

• the actual binaural beat frequency (or multiple of then) is making a difference or not
• the frequency of the carrier wave is making a difference (well, of course, 500Hz is annoying and 1000Hz even more so, but does it make a difference if I use 200Hz or 220Hz ?)

Hi,

though I'm neither using the Laxman- nor the Kasina L&SM, I have some experience with MMs. I have a Proteus and designed a few sessions for it. You can get some quite nice effects from them; they also help quieting the "monkey mind" and keeping you from falling asleep and thus balancing on the border of consciousness and getting some hypnagogic images.
However; I recently wondered about their efficiency regarding AP and LD. AFAIU for AP/LD/OBE one needs to switch to the "minds eye vision". But instead of providing visual sensory deprivation, all MMs are heavily using the physical visual sense; actually overloading it to create all sorts of psychedelic visual effects. So in my understanding physical visual stimulation should be contradictory since it keeps you from tuning into the minds eye. Also; binaural beats might help or not (since noone knows the "right" frequencies). Looking at e.g. the gateway series from monroe himself, it looks more as if his sessions were mainly based on hypnosis (not that this lessens his achivments in any way). Though he was using binaural beats, the actual cause of his success seemed to be the hypnosis and not the BBs.

So MMs are definitely nice tools, but can one really induce a full blown AP/LD/OBE with them ? As far as I'm concerned, I never was able to.

Hello,

The approach to use GSR as a means for biofeedback is everything but new; even R. Monroe himself used it. Its also not the first time (as claimed) that this is used as a means for controlling computer games. "Journey to wild divine" and  "Mental Games" are two other programs that use it and are quite some time on the market now.

Biofeedback systems are great for learning how to control your brainwave frequencies.

Indeed, but GSR measurements have nothing to do with brainwave frequencies. With them only the level of relaxation can be measured. If you really want to measure your brainwave frequencies then you need an EEG. They start at ~100€ (Neurosky Mindwave), but I'm not shure how reliable and usefull their measurements actually are. The cheap ones I have seen so far are at best some fun toys.

With all the above mentioned things you need to sit in front of a computer and this probably is the least optimal situation. If you really want something for improving meditation practice then I'd suggest a "Proteus Mindmachine" & "Thoughtstream" GSR-Interface. The Proteus is a nice audiovisual synthesizer capable of generating binaural beats (aka "Hemisync") and the Thoughtstream can be used to control various parameters (i.e. sound frequency, blinking frequency, light intensity). The factory settings of the Proteus hardly provide the result one expects, so in most cases its necessary to create ones own programs. For this however, one needs the knowledge of how hemisync actually works (i.e. which frequencies lead to which result), but I am not shure if this knowledge is public available (after all, its the commercial base of the TMI) or if there is any solid correlation between the beat frequency and any state of consciousness at all.

All I can say so far is that you can design sessions that help you with falling into (at least) light and average trance quite fast. I also succeeded to get into the borderland state (hypnagogic imagery) with one of the longer factory settings (#11). You don't need the GSR-Interface for this; the Proteus alone is sufficient. You also can use any audio background (e.g. ocean surf sounds) from an external audio player with the Proteus if you like.

@Jdeadevil

How can you become the person you intend to be if you refuse to have been the person you were ? Also a tree can not grow in the air, it needs to be rooted in the ground.

You try to get rid of your past, but why ? Your former self had much interest in doing what it did, and obviously enjoyed it - and your later self will maybe be enjoying things your current self not even dares to imagine. All of them are parts of you and you are a part of your greater self. Trying to get rid of your past is as pointless as trying to relife your past or trying to reach the future. There is only NOW. You became the person you are now because you did what you did. This has nothing to do with time, it is about events. Obviously they served their purpose. If they did then there is no need to 'relive' them unless they did not.

I'm so much different now, [...] not being interested to further my understanding of lucid dreaming, losing my interest altogether in Web Design/Coding, my curiosity and child-like self has faded

It's all about you. You decide what you do and for the track you are heading down. You decide for the route of personal growth or the route of materialism. Don't try to escape your past by heading into the future, you'd only try to run away from yourself - what's impossible. But clinging to the past keeps you from getting forward. Take what you've learned from it and try to make something new out of it. If there was something you loved, reintegrate it into you current life and let go the rest, but don't try to relive the past.

With 21 you are still very young. It's hardly possible from this vantage point to see where it's going to.

I have to say one of the most fun things to do while out of body is fly through space. I've seen some magnificent things. But one thing I was wondering is has anybody ever went through a black hole?

Not a black hole, but something like a wormhole. It definitely must have been an gateway between two dimensions. I was traveling down (or rather up) a tunnel at high speed when suddenly I noticed I am heading towards something. When I looked at it i could see slightly through it, but the image was completely distorted (a kind of dynamic fluid distortion) and hazy. It had a two dimensional quality, at best described like when you are looking at the ground of a shallow pond through a rippled water surface - not quite like that, but that's the best way to describe it. When went into the "gate" instantly an entire threedimensional world enfolded around me. This world had time and space, inhabitants and its own history. The gateway however disappeared when I was in it. I managed to stabilize myself for a short time there. It felt completely physical; I could feel the sand running through my fingers. What confused me a bit was a kind of lag between the touching of something and the physical sensation - like I was not completely "in phase" or incompatible with this environment.

At some point I dropped out of the reality due to lack of energy. I gave it another try, headed down the tunnel, entered the gate and was there again. Then I dropped out a second time and tried a third run the same way. It worked again, but to my surprise this time I found that although I reached the same location, I obviously missed the time coordinate - I went to the same location probably the equivalent of a few hundered years later. Where at the first two visits was a technological civilization, at the third only a post-technological world with woods and very few poeple remained. Actually I only met one long haired, shabbily looking guy.

I never knew what monroe meant when he said he was "heading down the freeway" to the exit ramps - til this day. It is the best way to describe it. It was a stunning experience. The experience of going through a interdimensional gate was completely different from everything that I have seen so far in any hollywood movie.

Written by the inventor of the DAVID mind machines:

http://www.mindalive.com/articleeleven.htm

He takes a poke against the hemisync-industry founded by monroe, debunking it (binaural beats) as having weaker effectiveness than his method (isochronic tones). It at least it is backed up by some scientific research, however since he wants to sell *his* products one has to take this with a grain of salt.

What in the end is strived for is dissociation. In my opinion BBs are helpfull to quieten the mind w/ monotonic sounds and keeping you from falling asleep - thats it. The rest that monroe did was conventional hypnosis. If you have ever listened to one of his tapes and hypnosis tapes from someone else you instantly see the similarity. Not that this lessens the effect in any way. I just think BBs are overrated, and even monroe himself said they are just a tool for the beginner and are not needed by the more advanced person anymore.

Isochronic tones are not using the calming effect but are rather seem to be using the "information overload" method. Thats similar to a buffer overrun attack on computersystems. While on computers this is used to inject malicious code into the system the human brain disconnects in selfdefence from the data input. Thus the IT obviously cause a stronger (measurable) reaction of the brain.

The inventor of the DAVID mind machines is a advocate of the "the brain creates consciousness" theory while monroe advocated the "the mind is not the brain" theory. They are irreconcilable. The first one tries to hack to brain to manipulate consciousness, the latter tried to disconnect the consciousness from the brain.

My Big TOE by Tom Campbell. I can't believe more people who are into AP don't read this book. It would save a lot of time.

He certainly has some good points, but I think his TOE also doesn't really hit the target. If everything is just "rendered" when we look at it, there would be no need for particles and/or waves at all (simulators don't render objects from particles or waves. They rather render particles and waves as objects). What about the inside of the matter (e.g. a brick) ? According to his theory it should not be there - or at best - it is only created when you break it into pieces and create new surfaces, but the pieces themself then again had to be hollow. According to what science knows so far and what many APers reported, matter is a volumetric phenomenon, i.e. the brick is not empty and thus the matter inside also exists if noone looks at it.

Certainly, the "ME" could be a programm - but it really doesn't matter if it is running on mushroomware (a virtual computer in a virtual reality) and ceases to exist when the brain decays, or if it is runnung on some multidimensional supercomputer and is deleted when the lifetime of the character is up. It doesn't matter - the result is the same. Even if the character could be restartet in (or cloned to) a different reality, it is still only a bunch of data in some computer that sooner or later will be extinguished when the system is shut down.

I just had this idea that may sounds far fetched. But what if all we are all part of some game on a massive playing field?

This idea is not new. In the early 20th century David Bohm (a well known quantum physicist) came up with the idea of the "quantum hologram" - which is not quite the same but heads into the same direction. An increasing number of scientists nowadays support the simulation-idea. The theory is called "Digital Physics" and is more or less nothing but the theory that the entire physical universe is a simulation. Surprisingly the number of hints to support this theory are increasing, e.g. the recent discovery that time and space indeed might be quantized too. But the strongest hint might be the weired wave-particle-duality. The most recent interpretation is that as long as the properties of a certain particle are not relevant (e.g. for kollisions, bindings or interactions with other particles) or are not explicitely asked for (e.g. by a measurement), the particle simply does not exist as physical matter but only as information which has a wave character (a ripple in the probability field). The entire physical world thus might be a particle simulation system, but since particle interactions require a huge amont of compute power a data reduction algorithm is needed. Here the wave-particle-duality comes into play - it is only calculated what is needed.
Physical matter is an illusion created by energy fields. This is almost certain - there's nothing solid about it at all. I'm a scientist myself. The first thing I had to give up when I started with particle physics was the idea that matter is something solid.

So far the science facts. Robert Monroe (a well known OBE-pioneer) made on his journeys some observations that support the theory - he even said "far out" he could find the emitters that create the wavefield that builds the foundation for the physical world. I cannot comment on this.

The entire "Matrix-Trilogy" (movie) is based on the simulation idea, although I don't know where they got the idea from.

Last but not least R. Monroe discovered (or rather was informed) that there is something like "losh" which is part of a oeconomy in the NPR. He found some very disturbing things that he never could rule out.

Strongly believing in not beiing a victim doesn't help the chicken in the laying battery.

So far: Yes, the PR seems very much like a simulation. Who set it up and for what purpose ? That's the real question ...

You can't prove this to anyone, no matter how many evidences in whatever form you come up with. Everyone can prove it only to oneself through experience. If you don't experience it yourself it will remain a belief. Most don't even believe it if they experience it themselfes (e.g. telepathy, precognition). Those who experienced it  know that it is real - all others don't want to be bothered with it. They are so consumed with the physical world, they don't want anyone to even scratch on its foundation. Astral projection just proves the existence of nonphysical or multiple realities. But to see that life is just a small part in the grander scheme of things is just to much for them. After all they came here to focus on a specific problem of their personal development and forget about everything else what might distract them from it. Most are not even able to take on responsibility for what they did in their current life; so if you try to tell them that they have to take on responsibility for everything they ever did (this is what is behind the proverb "nothing happens without a reason") then this is just to much for them.

I tried to prove (my limited) psychic abilities to a few persons, but I've given up on this. It's impossible. They don't want to leave their treadmill - and they don't even want to know they are running in one !

What I'm thinking is that everyone has an astral version of themselves hanging out in the astral all the time.

That's exactly what Michael Newton found out in countless LBL-hypnosis sessions: A part of our soul never leaves the non-physical world. How much does, varies from person to person. Some are leaving a larger part behind, some less and instead go for a split incarnation (two parallel physical lives) and some do a physical/astral split.

Hi,

Can there be time distortions while astral projecting by practicing?

Since the astral is beyond the physical and we now know that in the system the physical emerges from is no time at all, we shouldn't expect any time correlation at all. I recently had an AP which must have lasted a few hours of physical time. I didn't look at the clock, but when I first got conscious in the physical again (at the first interruption) it was dark night, when I finally awoke it was dawning. In this time I had four experiences: three to the same location, but one of them into a different timeframe; and one into a kind of exercising area (black void with one single object in it). My consciousness was seamless over all experiences even into the physical reality upon awakening. I didn't notice any unconscious phases, although they might have occurred when I dropped off the particular scenery. But it was not like I was used to it: getting unconscious on the physical side, going through the "wall of unconsciousness" and waking up in the non-physical; this time it was a seamless consciousness even when I was changing the worlds. I never before experienced anything like this and it was stunning. The time in the astral might have been several minutes, in sum maybe an hour.

Hi,

I read on a thread here on the forum that sometimes tooth metallic tooth fillings can pick up radio frequencies, which may account for hearing the music. I do have metallic tooth fillings, though I've never know them to act as receivers at any other time.

Maybe if you are in close proximity of a strong radio station - but close means a few hundred meters. And this also only if it is an AM transmitter. Ultra short wave stations use a different modulation method (frequency modulation) which can not easily be decoded by a simple rectifier.
I'm occasionally too hearing music in states of alternate consciousness. It either is something known (in full blown surround sound) that my consciousness recreates, but sometimes it is something completely new. Then it is not just a simple monophonic melody but a full arranged and mixed down pice of music, once even including a full text ! Too bad that I could not download it The best I can do is remembering the melody, forcing me to wake up and hum it into my voice recorder to rebuild it later from scratch. But forcing you to wake up from this state is like jumping into ice cold water - I never dared to do it, thus most of the music I couldn't bring into this world this way.

Hi,

when I read about the mindsplit years ago I found it a rather strange phenomenon since I never experienced it myself, so I had no reference for it - until recently.

It happened to me at what I'd regard as a failed projection attempt. I got conscious at night because of some loud noise. When I figured out that it was the vibrations I tried a projection but obviously hadn't enough energy. I perceived the projection attempt as being a shapeless energy separating from the physical body, but at the moment I should be in the projected state I fell back into the physical body but still was in a partially awake state (i.e. conscious in the physical body). I had a very weak consciousness, so it was hard to stay counsciuos. I could see a slight white-bluish glowing from what I thought would be the arm of my physical body (maybe it was just the in the physical body remaining energy body copy), that's why I thought the projection attempt had failed. Then I saw a tall figure standing a half meter beside my bed, looking down at me. I could clearly notice - although I not realized this yet at this very moment - the resemblance of this being to my own daily appereance - facial features, size and shape did match. Then the being sat down onto the bed and started to lay down / roll into my body. I could feel the unification. I was close to panicing since I never experienced anything similar and already thought of the possibility of being possessed now. Then I rethought everything and noticed that the being looked exactly like me - the only difference was the hairstyle. The being had the hairstyle I'm wearing at day perfectly styled and not the mess that the physical body had at this moment. Still puzzled I reminded the mindsplit robert bruce wrote about and found it described my experience to a T. The memory I have is the memory of the physical version, the experience of the projected double is completely lost.

Experiencing your projected double reuniting with your physical body can be quite freaky, even seeing yourself beside you is something completely different than seeing your image in the mirror.