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You always hear that the first step is the hardest, but then you learn... you've got a lot of first steps to go.  

I think your subconscious mind started adding dream imagery. You may well have been still out-of-body at the end, but your mind began adding things.

In my dream, I rode in the back of an SUV, driven by a woman named Amanda. In the rear-view mirror, I caught the reflection of her eyes. They were completely black, similar to an alien's from the X-Files show. Amanda was a pretty girl I worked with about eight years ago, but she didn't seem so pretty now. It made her frightening, and this was all it took to make me realize that this wasn't real.

I said out loud, and excitedly, "I'm dreaming!"

Unfortunately, I should only have thought it, because she turned in her seat, catching me in her empty black stare. Her look was malevolent, and she said to me, "I heard that."

Since I had become lucid, I quickly took myself from the SUV, reappearing in a park. Unfortunately, her black eyes had disturbed me more than I expected - I felt creeped out. I decided to astral project instead of lucid dream.

Instantly I found myself in my astral body, but unable to travel. I could move my arms and head, but that was it. I could actually feel my hands gripping the bed sheets trying to pull myself along (which is the first time I've ever physically felt anything out-of-body).

As part of my struggle, I repeated as a mantra, "I'm dreaming!", as I still had those darned black eyes as a frozen image in my memory. My voice came out as a distant croak, and I struggled to scream it repeatedly to find my voice, as though it would give me more control.

Unfortunately, the struggle and stress caused me to awaken. I found myself laying on my back. The sheets were not clutched in my physical hands, and my body felt very relaxed, as opposed to the flailing struggle I'd been doing astrally. My wife slept easily beside me, enforcing the fact that my physical body had not mimicked my astral turmoil.

I lay in bed after that staring at the ceiling, almost afraid to close my eyes again, still feeling those black eyes as though she had been an actual evil entity. Finally, I became angry. I wouldn't let some dream entity ruin my dream and astral playground. With that, I rolled over and determinedly went back to sleep. Unfortunately, no lucid or astral experiences followed the rest of the night.

I have many dreams with deceased family members, and I believe strongly that the dead use dreams to return to talk with us. If you are astral or lucid, it makes it easier to talk with them and realize you are being visited, instead of having a mental or dream supporting cast visit.

My mother too is sometimes visited by my grandparents. Howver, no other family members besides my mother and I have had any experiences like this (or that believe in it).

Much of my belief in this is that neither my mother or I had talked to each other about this until recently. We both firmly believed we were visited this way. It was neat to be able to discuss it with each other and see so many similarities.

Although I started a new thread on my flying attempts, I thought I should add my technique here as well.

I realized I've been trying to fly all wrong. I've always tried to lift up off the ground, similar to levitation. I found it is far easier to fly by going head first forward, similar to a Superman pose. I don't know why this is such a big deal, but I had absolutely no problems last night when I tried it this way. I denied gravity easily, and was able to do any type of stunts or go anywhere with no limitations.

Ever since the first time I lucid dreamed, I have attempted to fly. Many of my attempts were doomed to failure, some worked, though nothing made it easy. Through six years of practice, I could not find an easy way.

What finally worked was throwing myself head-first into a superman position of flight. It seems simple enough. However, I have always tried to rise straight up from the ground. By traveling headfirst, with feet behind me, I was able to have close proximity to the ground without feeling the tug of gravity. I tested it a few times, landing, and then trying to fly again, and found it easy.

What might make this easier for someone trying to fly in a lucid dream is to run first, before flying. The momentum will give you the sensation of traveling. Dive forward and fly.

I find astral projection very difficult to do at will. That's why I am very happy to know how to from lucid dreaming, because that is far far easier.

Your friend would not necessarily need a lot of control. Emotional attachment (friends and family) would allow a projector to directly project to that person without having to figure out how to get there. Many books that just touch upon astral projection use that as an example of how to learn... focusing on visiting someone you know when attempting to project.

small_triangle -

If you feel that the meditation is pointless, walk away from it. While it might make it easier for you and your goals, and you might gain some rewards, time is too precious to waste on something you don't believe in. There are many roads...

With projections, they can be confusing because of the (what I'm going to call) altered state of consciousness, which does give it a very dream-like reality. Study it for anchors, things you see which aren't common for your dreams (which is often most of the experience), and that maybe you can confirm about your surroundings as well. OBE's present a different way of looking at thigs, since you aren't looking at them optically, and projecting from a dream allows your subconcious mind to create dream-like imagery if you let it.

While practice does make it much easier to stay asleep, in your second dream you stumbled across how to stay in your dream without waking up when you fell to the ground. It's the same idea as spinning in place once you become aware. The sense of motion fools your mind and keeps you asleep. I'm sure someone can go into more detail how this works, but all I care about is that it works.

Telos -

This excerpt is from Out-of-Body Experiences - A Handbook by Janet Lee Mitchell, Ph.D.

Quote: "The point of view is the definitive difference between the two experiences. In an autoscopic experience one sees from physical eyes to a double in space; in OBE one sees from a location in space that is different from where one's body is located. In medical reports however, experiences were often cited as autoscopic even though the point of view was from space to the physical body." -End quote.

Hi Nay!

You're probably right, I don't need to go back, but I want to have ways to prove my experience. Plus I get to lucid dream all of the time, so I like to get away from it to play in the astral as quickly as possible.

Last night I was visited by two ghosts in my dreams, though they were strangers. Their presence both helped me go lucid and possibly hindered my projecting.

The first ghost was an oriental woman. She looked either Japanese or Chinese. Her throat was bloody, but not in the damp theatrical sense, but more like something had bit her or she was in a very horrible accident. Obviously she couldn't talk, but she was a very good starer. My dream wasn't lucid, and I was in several different rooms. Everywhere I went, she would walk  in shortly after, stand in front of me, and stare. I tried to communicate with her. She nodded when I asked if she had a family to go to, but that was it.

Then another person appeared, this time a white male, a little on the stout side, and looking in his late 20's. He was able to talk. At this point in my dream, I was playing a video game, so when he appeared, I asked him if he could play games as a ghost. He said no, the buttons wouldn't respond for him.

So then I realized I was dreaming and immediately tried to astral project. I left the dream easily and quickly and went directly to my astral body. The thoughts of the ghosts were fresh in my mind, and I fleetingly thought of possession. I brushed the fear aside, choosing the desire to astral project over remaining in my body beaten by fears. I raised my head and torso out, and flailed around a bit to get the rest of me out as well. The room was dark, but my astral site picked up blurry movements from my attempting to roll. Perhaps the areas of dim light were the ghosts waiting for me, or just my astral site detecting objects. I don't know because the projection ended there. It lasted only a few seconds.

Because I woke up a little freaked out, I think the emotion must've been there strongly enough to ruin the experience. I'm still considering it another success, because even though it didn't last as long as previous ones, I still got out of body.

I have no way of knowing at this time if the two ghosts were real or a dream cast. If they were real, this throws my theory of just being visited by dead family out the window. However, my fear of ghosts, even gory ones, has diminished quite a bit, maybe making it easier for them to visit. However, the communication is rather poor, and if they don't look dead, I'd never know.

thanks upstream for the very informative response. I didn't have a clue what to tell them, just, "Glad it's not me."

Hi tayesin!

I just read over your white light method from your site. Does rising up into the light cause any problems for you if just trying to step out into your house, or do you find it easier to have a destination farther away in mind, or into the astral planes?

I am going to try it for at least a few nights and see what happens.

My very first were when I was young, maybe around 7 or so. They were spontaneous. I remember falling through the floor and finding myself in our downstairs. Then I woke up on the couch where I was napping. I was able to remember everything about the downstairs, such as the pair of scissors on the nearby table, a door being cracked open just a little, etc...

My first experience once I knew what astral projection was happened through exiting a lucid dream. I was able to walk through my living room, notice how much cleaner my desk was in the astral, and observe my son watching television. What was interesting about this is that I was able to observe the color of the clothing he was wearing, but not the type of clothing.

Not everybody feels the vibes, and though it is a common experience with many projectors, it isn't necessary. Maybe you'll experience them later in your experiences. They are very noticable.

I've never felt the vibes when projecting from dreams. If they're there, I pay them no attention.

I have never seen it, but I have never thought to look for it either. I guess I've felt that if I saw it I could be limited. I've read accounts of people having difficulty moving because the cord was tight and refused to allow the projector to travel.

I think I'll make my next out-of-body goal looking for the cord. Even hampered, it has to be interesting.

Hey upstream,

Can a b&w dreamer increase the arrousal of the brain somehow to gain access to colored dreams?

I've always dreamed in total color, and my lucid dreams are very vividly in color. However, there is a woman I work with that dreams only in black and white. She is very interested in lucid dreams, and has attempted to lucid dream, but with no luck.

Are there any lucid dreamers on this forum who dream in black and white? Do lucid dreams gain color when before there was none?

For example, the idea of floating down the stairs must come with an innocent feeling of wonder and thrill. Interestingly, I had the same thing as a child in exactly the same way as you did. I was always under impression after waking up and walking down the stairs that I could easily fly down the stairs. In fact, I almost did once at around 7 years old so strong was the belief I could do it. Luckily I didn't, and many years later I realized this belief was on the basis of numerous times I flew down those stairs in unconscious OBEs, which I only started to remember many years later.

This is the exact same early childhood OBE that I had when young as well. For me though, it was scary and uncontrolable and I would panic before I reached the bottom, ending the experience. It reoccured so frequently, it stopped bothering me and I let myself stay with it, which took me soaring out the front door. Unfortunately, by no longer panicking I only had the experience two or so more times before they ended.

I can still remember the feeling it gave me in my gut from the dropping sensation...

Hey b -

Are you familiar with energy work? It's the closest I can explain to drawing energy. For instance, it's like taking a deep breath, feeling the breath pull more energy to you. I don't think it matters how close you are to the ethereal body, as the silver cord should be the only connection you need.

Good luck on your continuing endeavors!!!

Would you have any suggestions as to how to get 100% phased in as you say?

You betcha. Set goals for when you are out of body. Don't wait for things to happen, make things happen. Focus on drawing more energy from your ethereal body (which is hanging out with your physical body) to fuel your out-of-body experience.

When I was learning to AP, I asked a friend to stop by out of body and "help me out". He said when he showed up but couldn't detect me. I, however, detected him. I knew exactly when he arrived, but was unable to separate.

I read somewhere that projecting in groups is easier as well....

I've had someone walking around in one of my astral projections as well, and I've developed a theory.

I believe that when you project from a lucid dream your mind is still "dreamy", for lack of a better word, and the moment you aren't 100% phased in, your subconscious can play around. Out of body, we have the power to create astral images, and if our mind is tired, the subconsciousness does the creating for us. Hence, the supporting characters. It could be called lucid astral projecting.

YOu should be able to train yourself to remember them. Do you keep a journal? Its improtant at least in the beginning. Also don't get out of bed immediately. Sit there and try to remember as soon as you wake up as a priority. Once you've ran them through your head a few times, then write them down.