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Hello everyone!

Newbie here, I'll try not to be too annoying http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0> This seems a very interesting  and unique site. Maybe someone here will have heard of this lucid dreaming problem I've encountered.

I've had limited success with attempts at lucid dreaming, (with one recent incredible exception, hopefully not the last!) One of the difficulties I repeatedly encountered is the following weird "effect" for lack of a better word.

A few years ago I began trying Castaneda's famous 'looking at hands' technique.  Astonishingly, it worked immediately, every time. (Beginners luck maybe? lol)  At a certain point in dreaming, I'd remember to look at my hands and become lucid. Almost right away, my viewpoint would begin flipping back and forth in a very disorienting manner.  Front view, back view, floor view, ceiling view, very quickly flickering back and forth. This caused me to wake up pretty fast, very frustrating.  I gave up using the 'hands' techique because of this although I'm not sure that really had anything to do with it.   Someone once put forth the theory that during OBE and dreaming we may have 360 degree vision, obviously not being encumbered by a body in these states.  The person who suggested this thought perhaps my inexperience with this 360 degree vision caused the flipping sensation in some way. Unfortunately they had no idea as to how to overcome it.  I have of course surfed around/researched other materials for info and found no other reference to this particular problem.  It's too bad because as I said, this technique worked every time in terms of becoming lucid.  The other spectacular lucid dream was, I believe, a lucky WILD.

Anyhow, just thought I'd try checking if anyone here might have any knowledge/practical information on this perplexing problem.

Thanks!

Are you sure you weren't dreaming?

Quick update on Orb's technique:

Finding it a bit more difficult than I though it would be.  Usually I have no trouble with imagination-type exercises but I'm finding it hard to visualize seeing all around myself.  Having trouble maintaining awareness of full-astral body reversal, a leg here, an arm there, or the head by itself,  but not all at once.  Having intermittent pain during practice which leads me to suspect a belief-system conflict or something like that.  

*sigh*  A bit tedious to work those out sometimes.  Doesn't help not having a clue yet what the problem could be...

I've been a member of The Monroe Institute for around six years.  I have not attended the residential courses but have lots of experience with the Gateway tapes, the Going Home tapes, their H-plus tapes and other experimental tapes available to members.

My experience has been that any number of bodily sensations can accompany the F10 state.  I found that with minimal practice, F10 can be achieved and stabilized with ridiculous ease.  Itching, twitching, aches, energetic sensations,   noises  (even loud astral 'booms') do not necessarily disturb the state. That was a major advantage of Hemi-sync for myself and many others I'm sure. It allows you to "get the feel" of altered states by helping you sustain them through interruptions which could potentially bump you back into 'normal' consciousness (designated C1 by Monroe)  After a very short initial practice period (a month?), I found  I was able to enter F10 in a matter of minutes, with or without the tapes.   The longest I've gone without practice is about a year, and was able to instantaneously achieve and sustain F10 again immediately when I resumed. I found and still find no difficulty achieving or  sustaining the state , without the help of the tapes.  F10 for me, has turned out to be a sort of all-purpose state from which I've been able to explore in what seems like limitless ways (so far).  

Brain entrainment...worked pretty good for me http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Just to add a thought about eye positioning during practice, I believe the upwards position of the eyeball is the natural position the muscles take in deep relaxation. I found that complete head-muscle relaxation (forehead, jaw and neck) seems  to automatically bring about the upwards eyeball position, which in itself seems to effectively aid meditation. In my experience.

Orb:   This came to you in a dream? Very interesting...although it does sound a bit tricky, it seems to make sense somehow.  I'll give it a try tonight.  

Thanks very much http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Kakkarot:  Thanks for your response.  

People on this forum may very well be 'different' if I get your meaning.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0> But then, that gives us (may as well include myself since I'm here, heh)  the same general sort of difference... which means we might not be as alien as we think.

I don't understand though, how mankind (or anything else) could be "just not part" of nature...? How can anything exist outside of nature?  

Nature includes, or is comprised of, or IS,  everything... no?  


Questions, questions...lol

This most likely will prove unhelpful but here it is anyway:

The one WILD I had recently seemed to come about completely on it's own.  I was simply laying there thinking, not trying to have a lucid dream. At least, not consciously.  One minute, I was laying next to my husband preparing to have an afternoon nap, the next moment, with no perceivable break in consciousness, the dream environment built itself around me in a breathtaking way, with an almost audible "whoosh".  I remained lucid for an extended period within the dream and was able to test the environment (i.e. dream water feels exactly like real water) until losing lucidity after what felt like quite some time.  

On reflection I think I was able to maintain lucidity because although very pleased and awed, I somehow remained unexcited and simply began exploring the environment and observing and noting the types of 'dream-physics' we all know and love.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  Nothing scary or untoward happened and no instablility of viewpoint occured as I mentioned in the other thread.

Sorry can't offer more than that...

This has been a most interesting discussion. I have some questions for Kakkarot if he or she is interested?

Quoting Kakkarot:

- i used to treat nature with far more respect than i ever did a human...

-i was once so much more a part of nature than mankind that it was  extremely difficult for me to even talk to people without them thinking me a freak due to my weird thinking. and i never feel at ease with humans

-The rules of nature are nothing like the rules of mankind, tyrone. when you know what the law of nature is, and understand it, then you will understand what i mean.

Questions:

What is the law of nature?

How can mankind be outside of nature?

Have you considered that your attitude towards your fellow man was or could be responsible for your feelings of alienation from him?

Without prejudice http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Triss