Messages

On topic:

The concept of (mental) 'energy' was invented so that you could work easily within your mental realm. Its more of a technical term than a thing, just like a 'thought', its not a thing but a process in your mind, but is  very 'real' in a sense. You can study the energy and you will come to a conclusion that its perception can be very real once you develop sensitivity towards it.

Unfortunately, the word energy clashes directly with the physical energy (=that which does physical work), and causes a conflict of beliefs. In physics also it is a concept. A very useful and convenient one. To avoid the conflict I generally use the term Prana. Again some people might think that its old-fashioned or new-agey thing. Its the only option available.

It's not useful to ask whether its real or not (you will run into a debate at most instead of truth), more useful question is - how can I benefit from it ?

Well, I don't guarantee that you will. But like many other things in the world of psyche, you must try it to know it. Experience is everything here. No amount of book reading will make you wise. So go ahead and act on his suggestion (IAC fellow) and see what happens.

Don't forget to update us all. All the best

From the AstralViewers forum:

"I just banned Summerlander guys, I'm sorry but he has just become too much. If anyone still thinks he didn't deserve it I remind you that that there and more then four good, active members who have left because of his attitude. I can't keep him around if all he does it fight with everyone. Maybe he can eventually come back but for now he can't."


Wow...

All he does is fight with everyone...

I tend you avoid answering him, after reading a few of his posts here. He is generally too defensive of his opinions and it seems he is more interested in showing how smart and knowledgeable he is compared to others. His energies are sometime unbearable. Too brute. Almost every thread he posts into turns negative.

This forum is too precious to leave just because of one person. I request you all to show compassion towards such people and forgive them. Please stay here and share your knowledge, however diverse and non-traditional or crazy it may sound, its all good if it makes you a better person.

Peace

Hi and welcome

This forum is about 10 years old and was founded by Robert Bruce.

I guess you are stagnating because of reduced 'energy'. OBEs consume a sort of energy that needs to be replenished. It accumulates on this own but if you wish to have frequent and vivid OBEs then you should try to gain some of it by using energy techniques. NEW, Pranayama and chakra activations are good techs.

The first OBEs are mostly energetic because of the high amount of energy accumulated till that age. (If you had a healthy and emotionally fulfilling life till that time). After a few experiences the stored energy is depleted. It also decreases with age after increasing for about 30-40 from birth.

It should not be confused with the physical energy we get from metabolism. Some people are especially gifted, they never seem to run out of it. Rest of us must do the hard work.

Ya interesting, always more to explore...

For anyone who is curious about the rest of the 14 chakras, here are the names to Google :
7 above : Vyapini, Vyomanga, Ananta, Anatha, Anashrita, Samana and Unmana.
7 below : Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Rasatala, Mahatala, Patala
(top to bottom)

When you're OOB, do your chakras come with you or do they stay with your body? 

A good question but you are confusing the mental space with physical space. In physical space everything stays where it is. Its your consciousness that is moving, only your perception has changed, no longer restricted to physical world or sense perceptions. The word "out of body" is little misleading because its more accurate to say "free from body". I prefer the word AP.

Chakras are non-physical things, its very difficult to understand them in terms of physical location, because there is none. If you are a materialist rational man, you may logically conclude that they don't exist. If you are a new-ager kind and you have a little bit of experience with chakras, you may conclude that they are real , as real as your body. A spiritually evolved person will simply laugh....

When you are wide awake in physical, the sensations from the chakras seem to be coming from 7 locations in your physical body. If you cut there or do an xray or anything like that, you won't find anything unusual there. Your consciousness is totally focused in physical, you can't see beyond the body and conclude that they are in those 7 locations. There is a high possibility that you are wrong. At most we can say that something produced those sensations.

When your consciousness is focused in ethereal (pre-AP), these chakras seem more real and they are on your ethereal (RTZ) body. You start perceiving them there. Once you are astral or beyond, the chakras take on various forms depending on how you perceive them (and yourself). Sometimes nothing will be seen even if you are dead sure they exist. Sometimes people who know nothing about them, never heard the name, will be able to see them vividly and they appear as real as you and me. This makes you wonder, because the first person (s) who reported them must be having no expectation or intention to make them appear.

You can easily trace the chakra (or any other sensation) back to physical. They will shift places with your shifting consciousness. In the process you will be back to physical, wide awake , and e.g if its your heart chakra that you are tracing, it will be felt as a fast heart beat. If you take an ECG at that time, it will register nothing abnormal at all.

You've become conscious of the feelings, now you have to have the right relationship with them. By being mindful, you can put them to a halt before they take over. It's OK to notice, but unconscious reaction can be put to a stop through being mindful of thoughts and feelings. And I know, it's easier said than done, but it gets easier and more instinctive with practice.

A very good answer. Thanks. I also agree with Dazino.

Feeling other's state-of-mind is a spiritual power (siddhi), which is a by-product of your spiritual progress. With power comes responsibility (sorry I had to say this ). Your responsibility lies in acknowledging that feeling and unconditionally accepting it without being affected by it. If you feel more adventurous you can try to help that person and show compassion. This is beyond the abilities of a normal person to do this (including me), so the best action is to remain unaffected and avoid the situation in future.

If someone is sending you their suffering and you remain calm or avoid them, you may be perceived as indifferent or cold hearted, which is fine no big issue. If someone is attacking you and dominating you and you avoid him, you will be perceived as weak, big problem, isn't it? You must deal with it using 'common sense', just don't harm that fellow too much , and forgive after you are done.

It is unfortunate and bitter truth that in the modern world you start encountering negativity as soon as you step out of your house. For some poor chaps it starts as soon as they get out of their room. It can be a family member or even your spouse. For a Buddhist monk this is a perfect playground for practice, but an ordinary person who has become sensitive to energies finds it very discomforting. When they find that the negativity is omnipresent and making them sick, they give up the path they are walking, only the strong ones continue.

Initially , avoiding others helps a lot. If its a stranger or office buddy, its easy ... just mind your own business and don't see them much. Its a problem when its your relative or partner. If it becomes unbearable and long term, its better to part. (Please think before you do so, there can be other ways).

Other way is to build a positive shield around you. I frankly don't know how to do that. I've always taken the road of avoidance, even engaging in 'false-fights' so that the person stops talking to me. (I don't recommend a real fight or harming the person). Seeing more positive people and reading and watching positive an uplifting stuff helped me a lot. I've gone into the path of avoidance so much so that I have no TV and do not read newspaper, do not gossip, do not participate is those sick games people play with each other.......... and a long list of do's and don'ts.

I never felt any chakras outside the body yet. I'm working on it.

All I can say is that I read in books that there are 7 that are lower than the root and there are 7 more that are higher than the crown.

The lower 7 have served their purpose, they were active when you were going through the evolution from mineral to animal form. Human root corresponds to animal crown. (that is they are developed to that extent only, except may be for a snake and a cow). Its not so cut and dried though, its more like a continuum of activity which diminishes as we go higher in chakra scale. There can be a particular animal individual who transcends its crown and this results in a human form (birth).

There are some people who can feel them and can descend down by activating them to re-experience the animal existence. However, its a matter of common sense that this is dangerous and should not be done for fun.

Humans have the well known 7. Our crown becomes the root chakra for our next evolutionary stage, which is of a demi-god (Devas is Sanskrit). They have much finer bodies, just like an astral body or light body, and they are very much like us but superior in all respects. You can get an idea of the difference when you compare an intelligent and good-looking human to a chimp, that are just one step below us. In higher body we will go through the next 7 chakras to progress even higher.

Some people who have advanced in their spiritual practice ( must be in millions now) can feel the one above the crown. It pulsates when you attend to it or you can feel it with charged hands as a sensation. Some rare people can see it. Activity there usually means that your days as a human are almost over, and your next birth will be in a superior body in a superior world.

Please take all this info with a grain of salt. Its a great source of motivation but I have no way to prove its truth.

5. How can you prove your answers are true?

Its really simple. Experiment and experience. You will find something.
If a few smart and reasonable people agree on commonalities, it is established beyond doubt.

10 years ago I called it all BS. After reading books and many OBE experiences, I opened my mind (actually the experiences shattered my beliefs into nothing, leaving me looking like a fool...embarrassing...). After continued experiments (Yoga and meditation), I've reached a stage where I can feel each chakra physically just by willing and taking my attention there. The 'feel' is a real sensation and varies in strength from mild tickle to acute pain.

I could have written in detail how each one feels to me at this stage, but since the experience varies for an individual depending on his level of progress, my description would mean very little. Its a subjective thing (with some exceptions) and everyone must experience it themselves and compare notes. Its just like seeing a red rose and agreeing on the color red, although no one can prove that it is red to a blind (=inexperienced one).

You are welcome Blue Sparks. I'm a bit surprised that you did not Google it, because it is a common knowledge (or has become such due to the net). I'll post a few links.

You can show this link to the people who still believe it is some ear pathology:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=19230598560&topic=3930

(Actually if its absent in someone , I'd call that abnormal)

Ancients have taken this art to its extreme. The tech is called Nada Yoga. (Nada=Vibrations)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nada_yoga

The source of all "Ear Ringing Yoga" is an approx 3000 year old text called Nadabindu Upanishad. Its just two pages and compressed, but that's the only way they could memorize it and pass on orally.

http://www.frankperry.co.uk/nada_yoga.htm
(Skip to #18 please, the intro is a bit confusing)

A regular AP practitioner will notice how close to his own experiences of sounds and related altered states this teaching is. He will also note that these verse are going to sound like a mystical mumbo-jumbo to an average materialistic rational man, who never had an encounter with AP or OBE or meditation in general. (Once you know this you will stop arguing with them )

There you will also encounter a number of Sanskrit names of altered states which have no English equivalents. Its like a fill in the blanks exercise for most of us, but an experienced meditator will understand them intuitively.

"Shifting gears" is a good metaphor , I feel this too. Sometimes you will notice that you have stopped breathing, and panic out of it. But its mostly that our awareness of breath is dissolved, body goes on autopilot.

Yes, I agree, everyone has it always. Just a matter of stopping and paying attention.

IMO, it is important for spiritual quest because it is a good indicator of your 'energies'. Just as the sound of an electric motor indicates its speed.

I think there is much more going on with these white noise sounds in your head than some of you give credit.

................

I'm kinda curious as to why no one else is reporting or documenting such things?

It is well documented and its role in spiritual training is well known. Its call BrahmaNada (Cosmic sound is a loose translation of this Sanskrit word) or "Hu" in Chinese. English has no word for it, except the "ringing sound in head" which people confuse with tinnitus.

It is nothing special if you see it, just random firings of neurons while they idle. But good use can be made of this. Focusing on it takes you away from the physical. Once you become oblivious of physical and the mental chatter stops, doors to the non-physical open. Its so simple.

I have it 24x7 in my ears. It changes in tone when meditating (or AP session). Pure tones usually mean you are close to exit. During normal waking its mostly a pink noise and sounds like the "TV CRT noise".

The fact that you are hearing it means that you are sensitive enough for subtle energies. You can develop it further by meditating on it. You can control it simply by pressing your index finger and thumb together gently (of both hands).

While you are meditating, there will be moments when it suddenly turns off and complete silence occurs. It is not that the neurons have stopped their firings, it means that you tuned out of physical for a second. When this starts occurring you are very near to achieving the ability of AP at will.

All the best

An intense OBE consumes energy. I also often feel tired and disoriented after a full fledged OBE. Dryness in mouth and general weakness.

This is one of the unexplainables, after all you were just laying there motionless, no hard work.
I can't say what causes such energy drain but it can be regained easily by a good diet and long sleep. It eases with time (and so does OBE sensations). Do not try everyday, have long pauses. This also improves lucidity.

I've experienced plenty of classic OBEs and other non-physical experiences to varying degrees of awareness and this LD/OBE differentiation doesn't resonate with me. So you're saying I need to practice more until it does? Ha!

You are probably missing the point. One needs to practice more not to become an expert in putting things into boxes and label them, but to experience higher and higher states and to understand why the states are labeled like that.

The newbies must be told that there are higher states than what is commonly called an LD, even if you have perceived it as a continuum and tend to classify all of the range as an LD or whatever. Someone (eg a mystic) may wish to call his entire range of experiences from ordinary dreams to enlightenment as 'non-physical states' but it is going to be utterly confusing for a newbie while the advanced crowd will get it.

Now it can not be disputed that there are distinct qualities to these altered states depending on the level of awareness. This is not just an opinion, this is fairly established. It is ok to label them and agree on the names. It helps the exploration. For a scientific person, classification is a must to understand and communicate. Monroe is a good example.

Most of the people on this forum have heard of only two - LD and AP. An informed Westerner has probably heard of (and experienced) 10-12 such states. A master Yogi can count hundred or so. You can see how the ability to box things finely is a measure of progress.

There can be many reasons why someone fails to see why these things are labeled so and so. One reason might be that he is unable to hold on to a specific awareness level and bobs up and down at a dizzying speed. This happens e.g when you do drugs. So its all "one" for such person. If one does practice hard and holds on to the states and studies them deeply, he will understand why masters tend to draw lines. That was my intention of asking people to practice more.

Becoming lucid during a dream and waking up outside the body are not even close to the same thing.

Not even close.



To claim that the experience of one gives knowledge and experience of the other is so misleading as to be flat-out wrong.

I agree completely. This is more than an isolated opinion.
(Although you could have said it less obviously, to protect the beliefs of sensitive people )

LD is a less aware form of altered state, AP (OBE) is a more aware form. These are very distinct and only those who have experienced both can appreciate this sentence. I speak from my experience, the main difference I found was that in LD you can change things, like make someone appear or make a house vanish and other fun stuff. In AP you have less control, which means the reality is more solid and not of your own making. Its as good as the objective reality of physical.

Other major difference I found was that people in LDs are dummies, almost puppets. In AP you are more likely to encounter real 'people'. (You can't prove it but you will have a hard time doubting them, they seem real in every sense). Its another matter that one can 'rise' from an LD to OBE or can 'fall' from OBE to a mere LD. It happens in seconds, so its easy to confuse the two and I do not blame those who got confused and formed a belief. Its natural.

So a difference of level of awareness. There can be even higher levels of awareness than AP, like being aware of both physical and Astral at the same time , while fully awake 'here'. There can be even higher, like bilocation or multilocations in various planes including physical. It is sad that there are no words in English to name these, but if you read the original Sanskrit and Tibetan literature, you will find the words, hundreds of them, one for each distinct level of awareness.

Those who cannot differentiate between an LD and an OBE need to practice more and achieve an OBE instead of compromising on calling an OBE as a dream. Sorry no offense, just a friendly push.

"... but a master can stop it, even turn it back."
I'm assuming Psan's statement is also based upon witness accounts.

I can assure you that I did not pull them from thin air.
This forum and AP community have given me a lot, just trying to repay a bit.

I have no claim and ask you to verify everything in case you wish to act on it. (I do the same). Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge. To know you must experience.

Its not possible to experience anything by simply reading witness accounts, but that's a good way to explore into new territories. No harm in posting others experiences.

In what way _worthy_ ?

It is said that it awakens great powers, so some people are after it for just that. It becomes a responsibility of the Guru to choose the right people. Secondly, there are people who want it badly but are not ready mentally or physically. It demands a strong person both in body and mind. Usually takes a few years of preparation.

So how do they find out if one is worthy ? Either by using their abilities or simple tricks. If you send a letter or attain a group initiation, you don't instantly become a Buddha the next day. Its not possible (except for Buddhas). What is done is that only a small tickle of energy is transmitted, a spark, and you are told to practice everyday (say 2 hours) to cultivate it. (40 days of intense practice, 6 months of good practice and then regular practice. Usually the symptoms appear in 6 months to 1 year)

Those who are not serious quickly give up, those who are too closed minded or skeptical, laugh at it and move on. Power hungry people usually stick to it but lack the necessary peace of mind and "Sattvaguna" to achieve anything and resort to usual means of gaining power/money. At last only the worthy ones are left, may be less than 1% of all those who attempted. Nature is a good filter.

Well I don't have personal proof or any references handy, but this is based on many stories of gurus igniting the kundalini of their students just by touch or silencing it if it causes too much trouble.

The process of such ignition is called 'Shaktipat' (descent of power) and is some kind of energy transfer.

Nowdays its possible to receive it simply by sending a letter with your photo to the authorized guru (or by email also possibly) and if you are worthy they do it. I can't say how effective it is. Its no longer a big secret these days.

kundalini - once started it can't be turned off

Its flow can be started and stopped. It feels very real. It has a "mind" of its own and once triggered, it tends to start on its own sometimes. If one is a novice, it becomes a bit difficult to stop it, but a master can stop it, even turn it back. But it takes effort to start the flow and maintain it, thats the goal, no one would like to stop it.

IMO, when you practice AP, it rises up and releases you from the body. On the way up it produces vibrations, pulsations, lights and noises (even pain in newbies, but mostly a tingle for experienced AP`ers). When it goes down again you are back in the body. It often produces tiredness and a metallic taste in the mouth.

Google for ... Kundalini Tantra Swami Satyananda Saraswati ...
The best and most detailed book on the matter, includes almost all the methods and step by step. You will perhaps find a pdf and if not the book costs a little bit less than a burger.

Warning: Do it at your own risk ! Be wise.

I started this thread to ask if I have to do energy work in order to project.

Short answer : No.

There are methods that need no energy work at all. Use Frank's phasing tech, it may work. Good for those who are in some kind of hurry (I'm not kidding here).

But if those techniques fail, you must fall back a bit and be patient, do the difficult and slow ones. You should wait for a few months before giving up on a technique.

If the energy raising and all those mental exercises also fail, you must fall back a bit more and start with Yoga (the physical poses and breathing etc). That is , if you want to AP desperately.

If you find sitting still and remaining silent impossible or the breathing techs are making no sense, you feel nothing at all, then you must fall back to the very basic level and set your life straight first. It simply means that your life either has some major unsolved issues or you have karmic problems.

Sometimes the first AP comes very easily. I have a feeling that it is 'given' to us as a gift. You just need a very strong desire and intention to AP. After that the magic fades and you are on your own mostly.

There is no such thing as future life of yours. Yes there can be a life or many lives in future, but there won't be you. You had no past life. There were lives before you, but you were not there. You as an individual have only one life, which is this one and it is happening now.
The individual is also an illusion created by you. The identity has to be updated every second as the flux of body, mind, relations, situations and events rushes past 'you'.

There is something else that persists among all this impermanence. It is not you and it is not affected by karma.

So karma. Of what i know each action results in "vibrations" and it eventually comes back at you.

Its meaningless to talk about something when you don't know the real meaning of the words you are using. Karma simply means action and there is no such thing as 'vibrations' and nothing comes back at you that you can call 'vibrations'. It can be someone's opinion but its meaningless without the whole context. The word vibration is hugely misused word.

Karma is action and it produces more actions, nothing else. All actions are happenings, neither good nor bad in ethical terms.

A good place to start learning is from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

I forgot to add that there are techniques to simulate death without actually destroying the body and experiencing the 'thing' that remains. People have done this many times, but somehow this 'thing' can't be explained in language, it can only be experienced. One such technique is called Samadhi. There are other more difficult ones like Kundalini activation. I will write more some other time, but Google is the best way to know about these.

Hi and welcome to Astralpulse. Now you won't be able to leave this site
I enjoyed your long post and it sounds a lot like my own story, except I'm a bit more fearless and carefree.

Summerlander has already given an in-depth reply and I agree totally with whatever he says, and would like to add a few more bits.

You are experiencing something rare but not so rare. People have been experiencing such states since thousands of years now and everything is well documented. As is the case with subjective experiences, there are a million interpretations of it. Especially in east this art was cultivated as a science.

Linking AP with death can be a bit premature, no one knows for sure. AP will not take away the fear of death, except (that's a big except) in rare case of you meeting an evolved entity who shows you the truth and actually convinces you. Mostly your APs shall be fun and exploration without any proof. If you are serious about it, you can develop it so much so that eventually you get a proof (positive or negative) of a consciousness independent of physical existence. That should be the purpose of AP scientifically speaking, but for most its merely a curiosity.

Believe me the 'you' who is afraid will surely die and become soil again. With the brain gone, the personality that calls itself 'I' will be gone too and all the sense perceptions are gone too, which means the physical world dissolves for 'you', nothing remains. However, man does not know everything, his field of experience is tiny, so there still remains a possibility that something remains after death, maybe an essence of you that is more or less active depending on how aware it is. Some people call it soul or higher self, and developing it is the prime goal of any spiritual path. This is a plausible hypothesis and should be explored.

There are objective aspects to the AP, which you have correctly identified, such as vibrations and other neural phenomena. These are indications that something special is happening in the brain/consciousness system while AP takes place. The fact that this is still beyond mainstream science is enough to make any rational man curious about it and start exploring.

All the best and keep us posted.

I guess you are younger than 18. It's a standard practice in this world that old people do not listen to kids, they tell them. It makes sense from an evolutionary point of view. Mostly the trick of being patient works. Wait for the right time if you wish to have your own way.

You seem to care too much about the people. You try to change them, its impossible. Even if you can, they change back after a few years or sometimes in few seconds. People are dynamic, not rocks. Its a waste of time to change others to suit your own likes. Instead try to change yourself, adapt and evolve.

Often we don't find ourselves in situations of our choice. Its best to use some diplomacy and act as if everything is ok, instead of reacting too much. Spiritual evolution is a personal affair, do not expect people to do it for you nor you should let them affect you.