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all you guys have one thing in common: lack of education. most of the time you hear something you do not need proof.

While there may be some people who have a 'lack of education', not everyone here has. This year in September I should be going to university to study Biology, which I hope I will achieve a masters in. Providing I get ABB at A level of course.  (Exams in less than a week )

I admit I was pretty skeptical until it happened to me, but I did not dismiss other peoples opinions and experiences. Why don't you try it for yourself and then see if you believe it or not? How can you say something is not real without even trying it?

When I hear something, I do want proof - this is one of the reasons I am agnostic.  But that doesn't mean I will ignore what someone says if they have no scientific proof, as there are many many things that science have not discovered - new things are being discovered every day. And yes, I will try the card trick when I have become more experienced at OBE's because I myself want proof. You say you don't believe Selski, which is fair enough as you shouldn't always just believe what someone says. But if you are not willing to try it for yourself, then what else can you do?

Related to your comment about the eye:
I've only projected twice I think, but both times I started with a complete lack of vision. Only after a few minutes did I have any sight at all. As you say, our eyes see but it is our brain which interprets it (as far as I know anyway, I don't know too much about the eye it never interested me). I believe this lack of vision at the start is my mind not knowing how to interpret the new information it is getting, and only after a while is it able to change this into vision. Even then my vision is not completely clear, (it often fades again) so it may take many projections before I am able to see clearly (before my mind can interpret the information accurately)

Thanks for your help, and my name was just something my mate just came out with when I was trying to think of a name for a different forum.

The only Megson I know is someone called Gary Megson. He is football manager in England?!!
Yeh I hadn't heard of him before, but the next day I found out he'd been appointed as Nottingham Forest's Manager... so it might have been on the tele downstairs.

It doesn't mean it's a lucid dream – and don't knock lucid dreams – they are in my opinion a better quality experience than RTZ OBEs!
Yeh I like lucid dreams, I get them quite a lot now - I had one last night in fact. Although then I tried to turn it into an OBE... everything went sort of swirly and grey but then I decided that I'd rather just have a lucid dream... also I think I was slightly afraid of having an OBE from that state since I haven't done it like that before.

Is it possible to induce an OBE from the hypnogogic state?

Think I may have had another one, although at the same time it did seem very dream like - although I did awake in sleep paralysis. Went to sleep about 3pm, woke up went to toilet, back to sleep. At some point became lucid in my dream. Pulled myself out of body (after a big struggle), went back in a few times again I think... pulled myself back out (is this common?).  Was in my room... got to my door (or appeared at my door) could feel it tried to go through it and couldn't so I opened it (this is what made it seem more like a dream) and walked passed my brothers room. He was sitting playing on playstation. He looked at me (so then I thought I was actually just walking around normally, not having an OBE), and said something to me about Megson (no idea who that is). Walked down the stairs, went into dining room - Mum sitting on laptop, Dad sitting across the table. Mother said to me something about Zola. Then was back in body. Came out again. Decided to go out of my room, through my window. My old curtains were at the window (I've had two new ones since then) instead. Put my arm through my window to see if I could go through it.  I could, so I put myself through the window. I think that my house extension wasn't there (had it done a couple of years ago), as I was hanging onto my window ledge deciding whether I could fly or not.  However I think my garden looked like it does now which is quite strange... making it seem more like it was a dream to me. Was out on my street looking at the house at the top of my road. Decided that I wanted to go to my boyfriends, arrived there. But he was talking to me I can't remember what and then we kissed.

My brother was playing on his playstation, my mum downstairs on her laptop but I knew both these things before I went to sleep.

So in summary I have a few of questions:
If someone is not asleep, and you see them in an OBE does that mean that it is just a lucid dream?
If things look different in your house does that mean it is a lucid dream?
I also got no noises while leaving my body, just vibrations, do you have to hear the noises?
When I first came out of my body, I couldn't see through my eyes... and when I could it was like I didn't have them open but was staring through them instead. Is that normal?
I also couldn't see my body on the bed, there was nothing on it

Oh ok, I don't really understand it from the thread I'm guessing you have to buy a book or cd cos it was talking about things I had never heard of. So if that is a partial OBE, perhaps when I am touching the objects I am actually OBE'ing then without realising it? And if i was to carry on going I would be out? Because if so then I think I am really lucky because I get these things on almost a nightly basis without trying.

I have looked at the phasing stuff, and I don't understand how this relates to the images I see as I don't listen to any music beforehand. The images (I suppose objects is a better word) are 3D, when they first began I used to think they were real... that's why I began to touch them.

Thanks a lot, I wasn't comfortable with moving around because I was scared that I wouldn't be able to return.

I went to sleep about 5pm, and when I woke I couldn't move. I was really scared, but I had heard of OBE's before (although I have not ever tried to have one, I did once try and have lucid dreams but now they come without trying) so I thought I would try to move. I could see my floor, just as it is in 'real life'. Everything was in the right place. I moved out of my body a bit I think, it was really difficult to move. I ended up sitting on the floor, resting on the back of my bed and I could feel my bed  behind me. I tried to turn my head to look at my body  but I couldn't move it it was like a dead weight. If this was an OBE, why could I not move my head and why was it so difficult to move in general?

After this, I went back into my body and then for the next 15minutes I would say I was switching between a dream like state, awake, and the paralysis state I had had at the start of it.

I also have another question, sometimes before I go to sleep I see... images if that's the right word in front of me, which I can reach out and touch. When they first began this would make them disappear, but now they stay but my hand goes right through them. They can vary from anything to outlines of people, to one time some scissors hanging above my head.