Messages

nay
stop trying to pretend you're concerned.
the effort is pathetically obvious, although the agenda is not?!?

ten lbs. roughly. but i'm in a very sedentary state...one bcuz it's cold & muddy outside, and 2 bcuz i've painting a lot. i SIT and paint from the time i wake up in the morning till i go to sleep at night. the only activity i've gotten in the last couple months is cleaning the house.

if it had been warmer out i would have added more physical activity for sure. you can shed a lot of weight in a very short amount of time w/ fasting. & it doesn't have to be high endurance, but regular stuff. a walk every night, or even just some yoga or a bike ride. when you fast...and start living off fat stores...that 'furnace' can be kicked into high gear easily. you're body really gets off on that too. not only does it feel that it's actually accomplishing something it was made to do, but it's decreasing the toxic loads in massive quantity. a win/win situation.

i'm having a problem with food in general. my body isn't going for it. not that it's anything bad. i have thrown up a few times, but that was stupidity on my part. too rich, or too heavy. bread is a definite no, and dairy isn't that great either. it's important during this phase i'm in...to "listen" closely to what my body's saying. it's saying a lot by the way :confused:
basically that eat to live thing...not live to eat.

["conflict of any kind...is a waste of energy".]

MJ asked:

why is a belief system bourn on nothing but personal belief equipped to do such a thing?

'such a thing' i'm assuming is coming up with answers & proof?!? not sure exactly if i'm understanding the question, but supply and demand to begin with...and a lot of people investing a hell of a lot of time in what they are very serious about. a lot of fortune 500 companies & the government willing to foot the bill on all manner of things (i won't bother listing).
it's work, it's prestigious, it's a high-status social club, and it keeps us sheeple distracted from any independence of it (for the most part)(i feel).

you said...

We could look back a thousand years or so when we lived on a flat earth, covered by a crystal dome with stars embedded in it, and Gods heaven and the sun revolved around us. Eyes saw through projecting light and bacteria were taken as evil spirits... People took this as true personal knowledge and based their view of reality on it, yet with our current world understanding it is obviously quite wrong.

first, i don't really see how the perspective (in general) has changed much, and second: the details aren't of interest to me...i was looking at the system of beliefs themselves. they had theirs, we have ours, and therefore nothing has changed. i personally wouldn't go as far to say 'they were wrong & we're right (or at least on the 'right track').
we don't know that. we don't know that at all.

what makes today's philosophies any truer? I don't think they are.
(which makes the second part of your question (only to me)...
yes, pointless.
are we just supposed to believe whatever we want as that is all that matters? i suppose that could be seen as the case, bcuz your average person needs to 'believe' in something, but that's not where i'm coming from (personally). i pick up beliefs just the same as anyone, but only to examine them, feel them through, and then set them aside. nothing 'wrong' with ideas, theories, or egos (for that matter)...i just prefer not to get stuck in them. i'm always the first person to stand up and say i don't have any idea what's going on, and i'm also the first person to walk away from someone who tries to tell me how it is. that's just me.

inguma wrote in reference to krishnamurti...

but couldnt read it because I disagreed with so much.
(picks up book and opens at random - first thing I just read is "conflict of any kind - physical, psychological, intellectual - is a waste of energy".

first off...there is very peculiar cadence to jiddu's words that seem to make it extremely difficult for most people to get far in to. second, you said you COULDN'T/DIDN'T read it, which would stand to reason why you're having a problem with the 'setting aside of conflict'. JK was not a complicated man...the profoundness of his wisdom was he said exactly what he meant and nothing more. haven't read "book of life", but if it's like his other work (dictation style from lectures within groups)...you will see he is constantly requesting that individuals not go off on a tangent with his words, but simply "examine" what's being said in the present.
and in your chosen text he said, "conflict of any kind...is a waste of energy". and how can anyone argue with that?!?
one of his main goals was to get people to see that they attempted everything under the sun, except being present. constantly drawing on past experience and projecting it into future scenarios...without ever taking 'account' of the here & now. (that kind of stuff just pisses people off, if not messes with their mind too much. me? i love it & can't get enough).

i really do urge you...if you still have the book to at least read one chapter. i do agree though if you haven't totally digested it that it's not something typically well suited for bibliomancy.

as for the rest of your argument...JK (as well as myself) was in complete agreement that anything can be learned from anything. his teachings (for lack of a better word) for the most part was about 'not getting stuck in anything in PARTICULAR.

as for the rest...i won't comment on the moral or political correctness of your posts, and would appreciate the same respect in return. of course it's not an ultimatum of any kind.

Do you intuitively think that comments like this are going to help lead to a productive and positive outcome?

yes...i am a IP, but i never made any claims to being a saint. the energy behind what i said in "opening up"...was honest. i can't be anymore genuine than that. my purpose isn't 'productive & positive', and that doesn't mean that it's 'unproductive & negative' either. some people might like to go around patting one another on the back, and candy-coating blather, but i don't much see the point in it.
i can use the following excerpt from selski to nay as an example...

Perhaps some people are simply not as strong/strong-willed/gung-ho/mature about negs as you are Nay?

ahh...isn't that all nice and sweet on the surface, but comments like that is what i see leading to more conflict. it's like fertilizing dandelions. of course the reply was even sweeter, as nay commented that it had totally changed her thinking. just my skills at work here, but i'll have to see that in actual application.

i posses no ill will for what's transpired between nay & i in the past (or anyone else for that matter) i'm not keeping record, and i don't want to play "that" game...but i appreciate the in-put none the less.

nay is free to say whatever she wants to me, and if she believes it's too much for the passive ears of this forum...she's got my e-mail.
as matter of fact...you all do!

soul

For starters it only works through five sensory observation, whereas any spiritual studies require six sensory observation. This goes to show that science as it is today is not adequately equipped to make theories or observations on such things as negative entities or energies.

i don't see science as adequately equipped to deal with much at all..save measuring, tagging, and wasting vast sums of money. i guess that's where my ego gets a little perturbed (and somewhere a lesson lays hidden). it's changing (slowly), and i suppose i could be happy with that, but i still see a lot of trampling taking place in the process (per usual). not to mention (as someone already has) the 'agendas' of those who hold the checkbooks (the conspiracy of which is a whole thread of it's own).

this 'observer' logic is vital, not just to the ease of everyday functioning, but to the evolution of our species in the long term (IMHO). i have to admit that in the past it's something i pushed with a fairly heavy-hand. it was just so perfectly life changing, but i've only come across one other person that embraced the simplicity...and that was the old man that gave me my first jiddu krishnamurti book "Awakening of Intelligence".
i can't stress any of this material enough (in his own words...not in the dogma that's delivered on the websites [but i guess that's a decent place to start]). for anyone that has those really hard questions, and tends to be more then a little stubborn in their beliefs...the books are worth their weight in gold. there's a ton of mystery within the human consciousness and it's does very well, to at least explore these things before attempting to make sense of the unconscious & unknown.

for anyone with c2c streamlink, there have been some amazing shows in the last week. namely...(02/14/06) w/ Steven Hairfield: Changing Times & (02/08/06) w/ Charles Upton: UFOs, End Times & the Antichrist
Author Charles Upton. Upton made some interesting comments about demons that are in-fitting with what's being discussed here.

i also believe it was Upton that commented on krishnamurti. who (i had no idea) was an extremely poor child that benjamin creme (assoc. w/ the buzz of the new maitreya: see "share international.) scooped up off the streets of india (along with his colleagues from the "theospohical society") to raise as the new messiah (their first attempt)...that went terribly wrong when jiddu eventually (in years) decline this position, and began his lectures on the "observer/ego". people from the west might never have heard of krishnamurti, but in the east & europe he was basically seen as a god since his childhood. despite the reverence he managed to come round full circle to a point where he wouldn't even accept being called a "teacher". this is just to say...that as far as ego is concerned & the "I"-center process...this guy's perspective is invaluable!

streamlink is well worth (i think it's...) $9/mth!?!
i listen to the shows during the day, and download the ones most interesting.

anyway...that's about it.
save for looking forward to nay's reply.
333

selski,
sound input. i think it's difficult for most people to be handed any kind of status and not get their ego out of whack. it's expected for the most part. it's highly visible in a number of forums (esp. watching someone's perspective change...when you've been acquainted with them as a fellow member, and then suddenly they're a 'mod'). your post was needed. it's always nice to get some human & humble 'emotion' from the other side (of the buttons).
i appreciate it anyway. i think for the most part the mod's here are decent. as you pointed out, it's a fairly simple job...but some folk are gonna use it to the best of their avantage...and...well...what are you gonna do?!?

nay,
here's to the multiverse. the one we all hold a place in.
and here's to respecting each beings purpose in total, and the time-frame in which they move through it. i wanted to bring up the word 'hate', bcuz it's a powerful word you use frequently. i don't believe there's anyone here that hates you. i'm probably one of the most alternative minds on this forum, in reflection to yours (someone that would 'appear' to be against you), and i certainly don't hate you or anything else on an individual level for that matter...so i think that puts you pretty much in the clear.

if i was a therapist i'd have to ask, "why do you think everyone hates you?", but i'm an intuitive practitioner...and i already see the 'why', but's not my place to call you forth. i can't help feeling the patronizing energy in your words though, and something i do honestly believe you could spend some energy working on. you're only two years older than me; so i feel okay saying...that your age (although it might colour your perspective), in no way gives you the right to treat people as stupid or less than. you know about the light side of things. it's what you preach. in fitting with that you must also know that 'to each their own'. i really feel you have some trust issues to work out. bcuz FAITH is what seems to be lacking in your energy. faith that everyone is going to be fine.

don't bother jumping all over the place with that, bcuz i'll tell you exactly what i mean. you push the love, the light, the positive...but yet (although you attempt to transfer this on to others [namely me])...you seem to have quite an affair with hate, anger, darkness, and negativity. i can sense the excitement in your words. the way you sink your teeth into them every time they come up. i believe it's your 'attraction' that you struggle with, not mine or anyone else's. i have complete faith that people can move in all direction without ever getting stuck for long. and it's through this movement (the current colossal invasion you speak of) that the next generation is merely 'exploring'. and it's through an amalgamation and understanding of both sides that there will come peace. not to have everyone turn their backs...esp. when they know something is there that is demanding their attention.

everyone works to a higher calling and there's nothing to do but accept, respect & have faith in that. i know how firmly you 'believe' in what you believe, but do really want to have that responsibility? do you really want to be the one to tell people what's right for them? seems like some impossible shoes to fill...but that's just my opinion (per usual).

and as a side note....seems you might benefit from not always keeping score. it's hard to get flexible when carrying all that old weight around.
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as for the thread,
it's typical that the subject of the 'observer' isn't of more interest, but it really is the major player in this discussion...and those with a scientific slant really have the worst case of it (observing).
relying on technology/science & the exterior develops huge egos, whilst
relying more on the interior...one is more open to humbleness.
nobody needs any "proof" anyway. that's the answer to the big question. that there are no answers. just distractions.

here's to never trying to divert others from their independence and inner workings in any sense.

here's to spending time getting to know yourself (your observer) and how morbidly dependent it can be when catered to 24-7.
and here's to getting out once in while for a little 'free' time.

love soul

26th day of fast/cleanse.
just beginning to add a few heavier items. had a half an apple for breakfast, and little hummus rolled in cabbage leaf for lunch, and yesterday had a bowl of brown rice porridge/soup type stuff.
oh...and some valentine chocolate!

it's hard to describe how good i feel physically, mentally, etc. haven't gotten through the whole cleanse as planned. should be doing the kidney cleanse now, which i'm not...so i'll be keeping my menu to an absolute minimum for at least another month (curbing off the fast, but continuing the cleanse in a more subtle/slower manner) i have hardly any interest in eating, which is great. no cravings, no urges. so i can be very thoughtful about what i'm putting in my body.

as i mentioned my roommate has not changed her diet, and the house is full of junk food, cake, ice cream, chips, etc...and it's all become very foreign looking to me now. i don't 'see' it as food, and it's not a temptation.

saunas are great, body scrubs are great, exercise & sweating is also, but fasting is special, and can be (should be) combined with other methods of detox. fasting for more than a week is a ritual experience that breaks addictions...as opposed to 30 mins of working out, or a 15 min sauna. these things are great if one is already in top condition, but for those that feel less then 80%...fasting is a really sound & effective solution.

anyway...just check in
soul

[hmmm?]

I really hope you aren't being passive aggressive.. ya know the kind.... where people act all nice, yet aren't really meaning it...

:laughing4: OMG...that's too funny coming from you.

Do you guys actually think I enjoy being hated by you?? Do you actually think I get some sick joy out of it?

hmmm?

I spent most of my life....
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...I opened myself up sooo wide for you people and you didn't see it.

just a little wider...just one more time.

... but negs are like friggin fleas..you flick them off and they are GONE!!! they have nooooooo control over your soul, your being, your brain...NOTHING.

wow...that works huh?!? have you ever thought that maybe neg's don't like to be around you? since there seems to be this colossal struggle that a lot of folks are having, and you just breezed through the whole thing completely unscathed?!? that's so strange.

why don't you tell 'em what it was really like...when the zombies crawled out of the quite darkness to devour you. why don't you try getting in touch with your humble side, and relating to people...instead of always tossing that joker card around. i've never, ever seen you really open up. not here anyway. you really have a nack for treating people unfairly. not me, bcuz i couldn't care less...but others that are striving to understand.

it's just my personal opinion of course, but i really think you've got a lot of growing up to do when it comes to respecting other people, their opinions & experiences, and the time-frame in which they accomplish their lessons.

you know...what you dish out come backs three fold.
from what i've seen...you've got a lot a words to eat.

my god nay...just shut up about it already. you're being too obvious.
it's sad. james isn't the one attempting to cover up his actions. it's you.
(always projecting). not only is your 'observer' the most important thing in your existence, but you want to hang that stench on everyone else as well.
(i'm not mad...i'm just tired)

as much as you try to belittle and ridicule people whom are in agreement with me

girl...you're slippin'!

i'm not going to respond to the rest, bcuz 1) you have no idea what i do & 2) the above statement pretty much sums up how your mind works.
(now matter what i try to say to someone that's paranoid...they're going to take it as an attack) that's fine all the more power to you, and all that. you stay "right" where you're at, and i'll just keep moving along.
as for the 30 yrs. it's my astral experience in total. some folks just seem interested in 'dragging' the negative out of it...not me.
(it was a play on words...not a ply for sympathy).

anyway...
i think anyone with an ounce of intellect can read between the lines of your post and see a real life neg at work. i don't have to go out of my way to point out anything. you do a much better job of it than i ever could.

sorry for YOUR pain.
soul.

as most here know...i've been 'afflicted' for roughly thirty years. i don't know how i've worded it in the past, but obviously i've never been clear enough about my perspective, or my experiences. all that aside...it's been ten years now since i picked up my first j. krishnamurti book and began learning of this "observer"...i haven't stopped since.

for anyone that's never read krishnamurti (who i believe the be the most knowledgeable in this understanding) there's little point in explaining. what james has brought up is not only a truth, but something i have worked very hard to in the past to overcome. of course...the observer is always present, and she can react at will to & in reflection of a lot of ignorance. i allow her that at times...allow my human-ness, as the behaviours of which are just as intriguing to me, as the unworldly side of things.

i was introduced to the astral at a very young age. there were no books, no forums, nothing. it took me a long time to accept what was going on, and it took even longer to share any of the information. a point that's pushed over and over in this arena...that people who are tuned into the 'whole' of the other-side utilize the experience to justify all the crap that goes wrong in their lives...but for a long time (for me) it was the opposite. everything that was crap in my life, justified/coloured my experiences in the astral (and everywhere for that matter). i am very well aware of this concept. i can't speak for others. i'm not here to hinge my understanding on others beliefs. it effects me not. even my own experiences...now, with the ability to be able to put this 'observer' aside...effects me not. and that won't really make sense to anyone who has never grasped the concept.

does that mean that i write everything of my past off to a twisted, obsessed mind? no, of course not. but i don't throw any weight into it at the same time. they are JUST experiences. nor does it mean that to come from a loving/intelligent & respectful space that i have to pretend to understand 'less' (or more) then i do...or play to anyone's misgivings.
i continue my work in ALL areas, bcuz this is what's available to me.

ideas are changing all the time. frankenstein was a scary dude in the past (nothing more). he's filled out now. people can grasp the complete character...not just the superficial face-value of a monster....and folks are more open to embrace other aspects. the victim, the child, the survivor, the misfit, bcuz we've all been there at some point. i shouldn't use the word neg's in my posting's, bcuz it's a lazy word (in my application) that does not mean the same thing, but at the same time there's little point in me attempting to turn anyone elses experiences around. some people come into contact with these things they don't understand...and i'm here for those only. to help curb the fear, help alleviate some misunderstandings, and i'm capable of seeing the seriousness as well...where it comes into play in peoples waking lives.

there's one mentality i just can't seem to accept (though i try). it's a combination of extreme arrogance & ignorance at once. if someone is confronted with any experience, but in this example...a negative one (a demon, a neg, an injury, or disturbance of some kind). it is neither my place to attempt to turn them away from that experience, define it for them, belittle them for it, or manipulate it for my idea of a greater good)...i believe any of those actions are most destructive. a person enters into ANY situation in order to learn and increased their understanding. curbing that is no ones right, and to me...it's a huge sign of the most severely obsessed observer. the one attempting to do god's work...even god doesn't get involved in the lessons.  

i don't understand why this necessarily sets me so far apart?!? why this function gets so deep under the skin of few people in particular. a lot of fear to deal with yet...i guess. a lot of insecurities, and not enough FAITH in other peoples abilities!?! i'm not trying to get rich off anyone elses distress, nor i am poking fun at a trauma, or pushing the extremely limit view of mental dis-ability. i'm not pushing anything at all.

people either feel me on this, or they don't...it doesn't matter one way or the other. people allow themselves to be lead astray, people feel stuck bcuz they don't want to leave the cage, and some people needlessly put themselves in negative situations again and again for the drama & rush. i'm not here to say what's right, and i'm not here as an example as what's wrong. thankfully i feel there is less and less need for that function.
so for some...the youth might represent another dimension of ignorance. to me...i see the opportunity at vastly broader understandings.
and it's about time.
***************************************************
soul

wow...somebody forget to take their med's!

yeah...i was here for a bit reading through the post before i decided to comment...problem with that?!? was this thread not started a month ago?
what's the last few hours have to do with anything?
plus...i'm pretty sure i'm allowed to walk away from the computer, leave the site i'm at open...and not be concerned with what you think about it.
you're so funny!

anyhow...i'm tired of dealing with YOUR negativity. so there.
ms. projection...ban me?!? for what??? sharing my opinions?
my experience?
ban me bcuz you don't agree.
that's real light & lovely of you.
too much BS for me to make sense of.
---------------------------------------------

and to jingo...i'm not sure exactly what you we're asking in the first part, but the rest...no. of course no one persons experience is WORTH MORE than anothers, but when it comes down to it...that's all it can really be about. you're own experience. not someone else's.
i wasn't trying to get complicated with it.

as for what's outside the cage...all manner of possibilities. in my 30 yrs. of astral & unworldly experience i haven't found many that share the same. maybe touch on a few things here and there, but without limits...there's too much going on for much of anything to overlap. maybe that's the general rule of thumb for people who are just beginning to cross over, but for 'us' seasoned explorers...we're typically way 'out there' alone.

I'd perhaps give more respect to someone who goes against convention (and yes all this neg belief is convention in these circles) and finds their own way, rather than jumping on the most popular belief bandwagon.

I COMPLETELY AGREE!
SOUL

[COME AGAIN?!?]

man...where have i been?!?
what to respond to first???

first. syncro...what kind of proof do you want/need? seems to me this was just a ploy to fuel another argument...although you mentioned it was not.
proof for anything IMO is pretty non-existent itself. all just theories.
(you'll get a lot of those just about anywhere).

and nay...hmmm

I do know that these negs exist, I never said they didn't.

COME AGAIN?!?...that almost knocked me out of my chair! oh no, wait...that was a neg! i'm not going to take it any further than that. i actually think that we're not too many pages away from each other on the whole neg thing to be honest. i think the tension has more to do with you refusing to see me as an intellectual equal...and that my dear is not only a totally different forum all together, but an insecurity. no biggy though.

i think CFTraveler made the best point.
and all my support for Inguma!!!
(it's not worth the energy trying to explain what's outside the cage...half don't care, half don't want to hear it, and all together no one can 'believe' it) it's all about personal experience, not proving & validating ones self, but you already know that.

anyway...seems i missed the bulk of this discussion. most likely best.

someone prove to me that earth is round, and i'll bother proving that these so called "neg's" (for lack of a better word) exist!

LOVE & LOTS OF FOOD FOR THE LIGHT
soul

it was all done as a stupid joke, but...he who laughs last, laughs loudest.
it should have never been allowed to go to print. it did, bcuz they knew exactly what they were doing. now there's repercussions...not to the degree that they expected, but repercussion none-the-less. the tables have turned, and no one is willing to be held accountable. it's BS IMO.

i wish everyone would stop calling them cartoons. it's belittles the whole situation. anyway...it's a sign of things to come. be cautious. be careful who you lip off to, or cut off, or laugh at, or step on...or at least be open to the possibilities that not everyone is going to take it the same way. it's one thing to roll your eyes and tell them to get a sense of humour, and it's another thing to wind up with a bullet between your eyes.

the act in itself is/was ridiculous.
it's the mentalities of everyone involved that's scary.
no one was in the right.

2cents
soul

my feeling was more in the direction of not utilizing his intuition, or possibly being too distracted/busy to pay it attention. i get the feeling that all those things might have been 'laying in wait'...that the outcome here and there (i'm not saying all) was foreseen, but the course stayed the same. there were no corrections made in light of gut feelings...a premonition of sorts that came into play (was manifested) bcuz there is no deviation from the set path.
there are ALWAYS subtle signs. sometimes we recognize them, most of the time we don't...till afterwords when we say, "ohhh".

but i agree for the most part with the above posts...something in a higher plain searching for a sense of humour. sometimes as simple as that. giving a good laugh, and just moving on/letting go. we can all be so quick to take score, and hold to experiences like that, and feed off them, which in itself can manifest a lot more of the same. you might get out bed and stub your toe, spill hot coffee all over yourself getting into the car, and get a flat on the way to work...if that's the main topic of conversation for the day (or the next several days). if you keep retelling/reliving the scenario there's a certain energy that's created...that's conducive & receptive to more of the same. it's taking on a victim energy that cultivates more situations to keep itself alive, and not only that but it multiplies when it's transferred into others perspectives about you.

MHO anyway
soul

reading your post the saying, "nothing left to lose" comes to mind.

personally my life is pretty parallel...don't think i'm looking 'down' upon your situation and attempting to give advice, or candy-coat.
just wondering about that saying, and if there's some passion you've always stashed on the back burner? something on a different path from where you are currently? might be time to change course?
obviously the universe doesn't seem real open to the path your on now.
any thoughts on that???

soul

this isn't new news...and it fits with the flop. women becoming more independent/leaning towards the masculine, and men becoming more, and more effeminate. anyway...seems like down the road it's all going to get way clinical. like drive through impreg-nation. you'll get to check off a list for eye & hair color, cultural traits, personalities, sex, etc. and they make up a dna cocktail. secretly breeding out all the weak stock.

i also find it interesting that men are capable of breast feeding. they don't produce the same quantities of milk, but with regular attempts can force lactation...in order to elevate the mother, and pacify between feedings.

Amen Brother James.

Pretty much my view on things as well...that there is always something useful to retrieve from any post/conversation/experience if you're interested in seeking it out. I'm not against "old school" as far as hands-on basics are concerned, although I do lean a little more towards old-old school. Wood burning stoves, handmade furniture, quilts and the like. Hearkening back to when things were made by hand, and the hardships made life healthier.

I have a theory about that in relation to neg attacks. Something about mass produced material items carrying a energy that's conducive to negativity hiding out, or at least vibrating on a level that serves no greater function most times then aesthetics. This in relation to the ol' school stuff that was a labour of love. The Japanese always come to mind with their practices of Feng Shui. Life not being over-burdened by accessories & chachki. Everything serving a purpose. Each item, not only cared for & respected as useful/appreciated, but made with a great amount of care & wisdom (esp. in regards to the materials used/the natural resources.)

Whether it's a garden, home, office, or a simple Bonsai tree...it's honed to a smooth, flowing energy that benefits health & the positive, and these spaces/items are not conducive to neg attachment. MPO.
Something to do with living with "intention" & being mind-full.

Anyway...still appreciate/respect your openness to get your hands dirty.
Fewer and fewer guys willing to do that anymore!?! 'Tis true.

Love Soul

yeah...that was a lot of writing for not saying much at all!?!
but double points for JAMES for bothering to read it!!!

Sorry Not much longer.

on the other hand i was thinking...

what if the division 'here'...those that wish to go forth, and those that insist everyone stay put...is mirrored with the 'underworld'?!? what if...all the wildlife on the other side is just as ol'school as here? where they too are insisting that the newer versions 'stick with the program'...and the main reason neither side has ever been able to pass threw into the other?!?

what if...for each open-minded individual that strives to explore, and push threw that veil...there is one on the 'other side' achieving the same!?! And what happens when the balance is tipped??? is a new space created in the center where all the open-minds meet? do those with closed minds stay behind in the same ol' world...never knowing anything has changed?

anyway...be grateful it's only day 5!
SoulJahhhhhh

["how do we "know" that our minds are our own?"]

James Wrote:

We are never completely lacking in control of our lives or helpless to make choices, ever. The belief that we are is the nothing more than an insidious tool used by organised religions to keep people under their domination.

No one has to look as far as organized religion to find the struggle for domination...the seed is planted in the above concept that 'we' are in control.

Have to excuse how this might come off...5th day of fast...might be vague and sketchy. (Nay...don't bother!) My mind is working in rather large, all encompassing circles.

Thinking a lot about the multiple aspect of 'self'...pushing the conversation through the tired ol' schizophrenic 'beliefs' with the fairly common understanding that our spirits are a multiplex of various understandings & functions...falling under one general perspective (for the kiddies...kinda like a shopping mall. one main mall hosting thousands of different shops and services), and ultimately that the flesh and bones of it all; our physical aspects categorize us all as part of the 'animal' kingdom.
There's a lot more going on than "I am me...plaint & simple".

True, many a great mind has been driven mad over the possibilities. And simple enough it should be to see the conflict within every person...a constant struggle between the conscious mind & animal mind for control, and more so balance. We all enter into this world (as humans) with the exact same equipment. Each of us a physical construct (like a computer), with a cosmic soul (like software...all developed from the same ultimate source). Folks may argue this of course, but my point is more that I don't believe anyone needs to be told about 'choices' or 'control"...or which end is commonly believed to be "up". I have to give credit where credit is due...we all have the same programming after all.

Everyone that works with a computer understands the basics of windows, but of course it's not the only operating system. There a million out there to draw from thin air. Windows isn't even the "best" operating system, but it's the mass-produced one...the original lets say, and there are those that swear by it's creation.

Coming to the conclusion that I shouldn't be writing in this head-space, but what the hell?!? I'm the one that continues to pose the irritating question..."how do we "know" that our minds are our own?"
In an absolute sense I think it's ridiculous to assume that it is. Just the fact that we are continuously bombarded with conditioning from the moment our first cell is divided...it's impossible to separate what parts of ourself are genuinely original, and what is merely a call to expectation...what we pretend is us. What we "take on" in order to optimize our systems operation isn't necessarily a sin....works like FireFox...an 'open-source' directory of the millions of possibilities available at any given time; constantly being redeveloped, and exchanged for optimum function. All the little odds 'n' ends that are added to the original system. What might-not be useful to one person...might be highly useful to another. What might seem like a great concept...might actually suck in it's design, etc. (and all the little "extensions" that have yet to developed).

Ten years ago this website itself would have fallen under great scrutiny, been called a farce by well-meaning persons that had everyone's best interests at heart. It still hovers on that fence...as the scientific minded struggle for answers to the unanswerable...and work to gain control over the general theories...whatever! It's still more MYSTIC than not, and no degree of preaching will ever change that. In order to FULLY understand all that lays outside the boundaries of the physical...one EVENTUALLY needs to let go of their CRITICAL (monkey) mind...and open them-self up to experience. The true explorer (who is willing to enter into the complete unknown...has no way of preparing himself.) He must walk in with the understanding that he knows nothing...leaving all previous conclusions behind. That in itself is scary. The main reason the majority of animals herd and pack. The reason Sheeple stick to the farm.

I might be a fool at times, but I am no less intelligent than anyone else. I have sacrificed a great deal to explore the 'unknown" as far as it allowed. To come back round from that only to have the land-dwellers conclude that I am nothing but crazy...a depressed, dysfunctional, anger feeding nut-job...that mentality is a joke. Usually not as extreme as Nay's point-of-view (I'm saving up to buy her a GREAT BIG picture window!), but still that common eye roll, that look that says without saying..."What outrageous childhood fantasies are these that I have no time for!?!"

Only makes sense that the general populace would welcome the lighter, more upbeat side of the "unknown"...if they accept any of it at all. Still...my heart goes out to those (like me) that look past that, and continue to look past that even.

All those that are being lumped into this...naive, "don't have the maturity or intelligence to know better/know what's best for them", CONFUSED and LACKING types...those comments are a waste of energy.
People are dying all over the place from countless things daily. The miners for instance that risk their lives to crawl down deeper and deeper shafts to heat the homes of people that would never consider doing that work...that don't even have the intelligence themselves to think that "miners" are involved! Coal comes from a big truck, right? And Hamburger comes from a grocery store!
When these people try to speak as if they know what they're talking about...it can & usually does tinkle me off. That's my ignorance responding to their ignorance. There are a lot of folk out there that never think to question the current 'conventional' programming they've adopted, bcuz at the time it seemed the best "choice"...or they're too scared to try a new approach. (man, there are some passionate activists out there for "old school" thinking)...unfortunately for me not old enough.

My closing point is that no one here is truly concerned for what anyone else is going through. There is no empathy from the old school. Only criticisms & confinements. These kids (and others) that are jumping off cliff into the unknown with free abandonment...conscious or unconscious...they know exactly what they're doing. They're redesigning our collective understanding...reaching out for "nothing" in particular. Just doing it for the sake of survival. They're suffocating here in this closed space. They need more information to work with...they're far higher functioning computers...old minds can't hope to understand without frying their circuitry. Let them go! Don't add useless weight to their flight, by trying to program their cosmic hard drives with old, worn out software, just bcuz it's what you trust and understand. What right do you have to stash some personal sentiment onto a spaceship...to say that some aspect of you has reached the stars?!? There's only room out there for those that have suffered their own understanding. Bumps and bruises along the way is not a good enough reason to stay put!!!

Note: "YOU" is no one in particular...just the general idea of a closed mind.

Soul

i've never tried any dry fasting. i think most people are dehydrated to begin with...so at LEAST 8 glasses, yes. it's hard. as lola said...you definitely need the liquids to flush the toxins out of your system!
i got a little sick of the juice mix, so today i made up a little oatmeal (about 1/2 cup cooked) blended with 2 qrts h20. mmmmm :confused:
not bad actually when you haven't eaten in four days.

today was actually rougher than i thought it would be. thought about food all day, but didn't give up (save a teensy-tiny bite of pop tart (of all things!))

sigh...only 10 - 17 days to go

4th day of fast/cleanse: started a day early.

doing the "master cleanse" (just the fresh lemon juice & cayenne, replaced maple syrup w/ fresh juice (2 apple/2 carrots), some ground flax & pumpkin seeds. also a couple tablespoons organic yogurt (although homemade would be better as the bacteria cultures are alive). also doing the p&b shake (psyillium & bentonite), which is a colon cleanser.

a few cravings here and there, but more from boredom than actual hunger. my roommate is eating normally...so steak, fresh baked biscuits, homemade pizza...is a bit of a challenge, but anyone that fasts understands that once you get over that 3-day hump...the worst of it is over (hunger-wise), and there's no point in breaking discipline.

already i'm feeling a surge of energy (small, but noticeable). right now it's an 'edgy' feeling (like too much caffeine). once the bulk of toxins are worked out of my system...the energy gets smoother.

ordered hulda clark's parasite tincture (wormwood,blk. walnut hulls and clove), some probitotics, amino complexes, and strong multi-vitamins last night from herbalhealer.com. should arrive in a few days and i'll step the cleanse up a bit.

fasting for small periods of time (24hrs - 7 days) is mostly just to give your digestive system a rest. the feeling is immediate where that's concerned...but cleansing is different in that it has to be done in a specific order or you can wind up really sick. it's not risky...there's just steps that must be followed. always a digestive/colon cleanse first to make sure one is hydrated & eliminating toxins properly...this is followed by the parasite cleanse, then the kidney flush, and lastly the liver flush...none of these i've tried before (so i'm looking forward to results).

Dear Nice Dream,

24 hrs. is a fine way to get into the habit of fasting, but you won't notice anything significant health-wise...it's more about developing discipline. i'm all for having one day a week of 'rest'. important to stick with it till the next morning...and eat something wholly healthy for breakfast! (musli, fresh fruit, yogurt, etc.). my problem with 1 or 2 day fasts is that without food the body immediately thinks it's starving. it will shut down; leading to "decreased" energy, and will also convert all incoming food (after the fact) into fat stores. fat is the best thing on earth...from a survival perspective, but it's also a sponge for toxins. the idea of micro-fasting should be a lifestyle change (or at least committed to for a month: 4 fasting days) and should be combined with a strict restructuring of the diet....otherwise you wind up doing more harm than good.

it's okay to do one here or there just to know or say you can, but it's not really accomplishing anything in the way of health. more like a personal challenge (which i'm all for).

it isn't until "after" the 3rd or 4th day...that your body begins "burning" fat stores. your body increases in energy & becomes very warm, and other effects are a clearing of the mind, and an increase in senses, and all the cool things start to happen that demonstrate how 'out of touch' we can be even with our own selves, not to mention the world around us.

anyway...best of luck on any challenge you personally undertake!

Always...Soul

wtf?!? yeah...okay call me insane bcuz I have a real problem with violent behavior and abuse...with KIDS being gunned down in the streets by militia!
if anyone is painting a really clear picture of their dysfunction...
it's you my dear, not me.

calm is nothing new...i hear that a lot, but 'eerie' calm...that's funny.
why would that haunt you? thank god you don't get to define who i am (except in your own small mind, which is easily laughed off)...otherwise you'd have me and a lot of other fearless, open & great minded folk locked up. ha!

(strange how you didn't reply to my calm letter, but to the last allegedly angry one...what that's say?!?)

are you mad? i am your mother, and there's a great lesson in that, and when you're ready to deal with it...and all the rest of the things you jerk and dance around. well...you'll see when you get there. talk about adjusting.

no meds, imbalances, undirected anger, or alcohol at this end sweets.
sorry.
333  

and ps...it's not me that's afraid of darkness, distrubances, demons, depression or the like...it's you.

[Serious]

Just curious why the words together?!?
= Serious Chemical Imbalance???

The idea that SOME people might "legitimately" be suffering an 'actual' physical/mental problem? And then throw all manner of other causes out the window, bcuz there isn't some pharmaceutical company somewhere with their hands out, pushing drugs, commercials and fear at the populace???

Believe me if there was a "depossession" pill...the corporations would risk every dime they had to get their greasy mitts on the market and squeeze.

Nay...you are a left brainer. Maybe it would help if you were more clear on that point. That you don't believe in anything, unless you yourself can squeeze it in your little palm. I get the mental picture of trying to teach the concept of spirit to a monkey.
(and some of my best friends are monkeys!)

Anyway...only so much amusement from primates slinging poop back and forth. Later
333

I watched Sarafina last night. My roommate is always asking me why I like watching grotesque movies, which I believe is mainly a control tactic to keep the TV constantly on CNN. Sarafina = grotesque?
I told her, "because it makes me angry"...it impassions me.

Previous to this I had been working on a post about Nay's question in regard to an explosion of attacks, and what I couldn't seem to find the words to sum was before me on the television. Kids under blatant attack on a physical, daily basis, suppressed, treated as less than human, gunned down in school yards, dragged out of their beds in the middle of the night & tortured. Of course it's a movie, but I think everyone understands the children I speak of. Children all over the globe suffering. Some right here in the 'civilized' world.

But there's something that's very clear to me about the children of less 'developed' countries...the enemy is visible, and though no less confusing it creates a place to focus energy. It gives them something to fight against. On top of which their lives are wrought with hardship, which childhood is a small measure of. They grow up quick. They learn to cope with adversity and still...even though starving, freezing, struggling, and losing massive chunks of family to disease or murder...there are still smiles. Place these children in one hand, and American children in the other, and somewhere in between is my point.

Yes, there's an increase in so called psychic attack, and yes...I believe a great deal of it develops out of a need for attention and acceptance, but it's a call out for help none the less. There has been some discussion about the video gaming generation leading to an increase in cult mentalities and practices such as Vampirism, Gothic ritual and the Dark Arts, body modification, etc...but like possession or astral attack...it's a symptom. I think what is more curious is the cause.

Anyway to avoid too long a post. Something has definitely torn open...and I believe it to be the fragile mass psyche of children everywhere, and although drugs might be readily at hand to 'curb' the effects...it's nowhere near the answer. Slapping a band-aid over a gushing wound does nothing (and the side effects can be just as bad for ones health as the disease).

I think it's a lazy, thoughtless approach (even therapy)...it's parents all over the place pushing the children aside once again; leaving them with the short end of the stick. It's the outcome of the "me-me generation"... sided with the arrival of highly sensitive and empathic indigo, crystal and star children. Generations of greedy, hording, self-absorbed, ignorant, money-mongers that have ridden the train of efficiency, luxury, disposibility, and unaccountability as far as the tracks would take them, and never once thought about what they would be leaving behind for others to deal with. Children have become a statistic of the largest disposable income...they're a market nothing more. Laden with rules, agendas, and expectations before some can even walk. Five year olds having anxiety attacks because they don't have the right clothes to attend kindergarten in! Is that a dysfunctional mind...or some twisted fuc*ed up conspiracy at the hands of men?!?  

Mix the above with the non-existence of "rights of passage", and decent common skills & responsibilities that provide the basis for self-worth...and we've all got a big problem on our hands. Quite possibly we have (as a nation) become too morally and politically correct, and a backlash is natures way of keeping it all in check. It's where I've come to see the simple work of someone like Ted Nuggent become something of a profit, and welcome the concept of handing a child a rifle.
Desperate times call for desperate measures!

So Nay...it's no small question you pose (what is it with todays kids?!?). It's a massive problem that would involve restructuring nearly everything that surrounds us...the educational system for one. All "systems" in fact.
It's standing up and taking responsibility, and getting active in all manner of things. It's teaching by example...and I'm not talking about your kids...I'm talking about ALL children (even the grown up ones). Or...everyone can keep doing exactly as they want to do and let the entire mess play out. Already there are some strides towards organic diets, home-schooling, natural remedies, the power of the purchasing dollar, getting back to basics, etc. In time all will shift back to what is truly important...of course there has to be a lot of pain and suffering for those on the cusp. It's either put up or shut up for now.

You can't point the finger at the VICTIMS...and isn't it ironic that that seems to be your issue...these kids screaming out, and spending all sorts of energy in hitting that idea home!?!?!

Just my two (heavy) cents.
Soul