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The Seth Entity and His Work; Part I, fiction
I start this thread(s?) with the hope of integrating a lot of the various ideas and experiments posted in other threads and how the Seth materiel seems to address many of these issues.  (Most of the time I can only paraphrase what Seth wrote, because I cannot remember verbatim his texts.)

Where to begin.  Hmm.

I'll just go with what comes to mind as I go.

I just came out of another visit to the "Fictional World" thread.  And it got me to thinking about why we, in fact, define the fiction that we do as, well, "fiction."

What is "fiction"?

Before we tackle that question, let's first think about what we decide is "real."

We define and then decide, in the coarsest sense, our reality and thus what is "real", by what we observe with our five primary senses.  We smell a rose, and we decide the smell is pleasant and "real".  We taste a lemon, we define it as tasting sour.  That is "real".  We see a building on fire in the distance, and we conclude that a building is burning.  The fire is real.  The building being on fire is real.

When we see the building on fire in the distance, we know only that reality, barring any other information sources but our senses.  So we know a building is on fire in the distance.  It's real.

Hmm, let's get closer to the building on fire.  Now we can smell the smoke of the fire, and it seems a bit more "real".  We are getting more information about the event, so we can define it more clearly.  We can make it more real by gathering more information.  We smell a very pungent odor of burning rubber.  We have further defined the reality of this event by concluding that there is a lot of rubber burning in the fire.  That would correlate why we see such thick black smoke in the fire.

Let us get closer still to the fire.  We are 2 blocks away from the fire, and ask a policeman nearby what the fire is all about.  "It is a tire warehouse that is burning", he says.  We have just had a further definition of the reality of the event, because now we know it is a tire warehouse on fire.  And when we get around the corner of the building on fire, and feel the immense heat and hear the sizzling of rubber, we have further confirmation of the reality of the event.   We can see, hear, feel and smell the event.  We have defined this event as being pretty darn "real".

The next day, our roommate comes home from a business trip.  "Hey, did you hear about the fire yesterday at the old tire warehouse"?  "No."

Well, gee.  Was the fire real for our roommate?  He received no information about the fire before this point.  The event did not register to any of his senses, and so not only was the event not real to him, it did not exist for him.

"Do you choose to accept that a fire happened yesterday at that warehouse?"  "No.  I have fond memories of that warehouse", he replies.  "To me it is just a fictional event.  I did however see an incredible car crash when I was away.  A DeLorean had a head-on collision with an Aston-Martin."  To you this sounds incredulous, because you know, or think you know, that in the area this person traveled to, both DeLoreans and Aston-Martins are very rare and so the chances of that event happening are nil.  It is not "real" to you.  It's just fiction until you decide to accept it as having happened.

To one person the event was real, to the other it is fiction.  It didn't "happen."

So what exactly is "fiction"?  

Well, one could say that fiction is the opposite of what we accept as being real.

The Seth entity had a lot to say about this.  One of which is one of his prominent points in his writing..."Your beliefs form your reality." Or, in a variation, "You form your own reality."

Without getting into a thousand arguments about how to make the event real for the roommate, and how any event or reality one person perceives can be perceived by all, let's look at something else Seth wrote..."You all participate in an objective reality based upon the root assumptions of your universe.  You agreed to do this before you were born."

Can we assume with the logical mind that just because something does not exist to our primary senses that it is fictional?

Now I would jump ahead a bit and out of order, but I must in order to relate this to the Fictional World thread, and some of the ruminations that have occurred there.

Seth said, "Every thought you have spawns a new reality that takes on a life of it's own, and the vividness of that reality depends on the emotional strength and intent of the thinker."

That will segue into a new topic, I reckon', when the "time is now".

Discuss.

Hey there, sorry I have been away...been buried in a different reality of my own...Damn video games, hehe..

Nick:
No worries, move threads to where you deem them to fit.  

Kazbadan...

quote:I disagree a little about the nature of reality. Using the example of the house in fire: the house is in fire even if people is not knowing of that fact.

Reality exist by itself, even if we didnt exist. We your idea, you are assuming that reality exists just because of us (maybe is that so in a different level) when it´s the opposite. We exist because of this reality.

-but what i said, means that it may exist other reality and universes that maybe will never be known by humans. But they still exist...

Kaz, that entire line of thought is perfect for the next rhetorical refutation...

Even beyond Zen, this one comes from Einstein, and the fact that he stated this so many years before Seth makes me giddy.  (I apologize, I do not have an exact quote, again...)

Einstein was standing outside his home in Austria with a friend.  Einstein says to his friend, "You see that tree out there?"

His friend replies, "Yes."

"Turn around and look the other way.  Now...is the tree still there?"

Fascinating mindflex.  And also quite important in light of recent ideas in these recent times.

I apologize for not being able to be more involved with the thread at the moment, but stuff going on here I need to deal with.  Keep discussing!  Good stuff, and the segue has been set already!

Welcome to the life of many, Nar.  Painful, ain't it?

Keep digging, you'll eventually find an answer I reckon'.  Have I found one?  Nope.  But hope is not just soap-on-a-rope.

We'll get there, eventually.

Never forget Warren Robinett.

http://www.icwhen.com/book/index.shtml

Nothing new to report here, other than an odd dream about a dragon here or there. (Was red... it even breathed fire, too.  But it was kinda' violent).

Having trouble remembering anything remotley coherent.  Can't really write about something you cannot decipher into images/feelings.

*sighs*

I cannot help you with that, I don't know why I remember certain dreams or not.  

Couldn't remember any from Thu night, and last night was "eh".

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4/11/04

A room full of strangers, light levels were low.  They are all on my left.  To my right is a door leading outside, and it is bright and  sunny.  In walks a woman, and behind her is a cross between Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan.  Like a Jackie Lee, hehe.

He pulls out a throwing star, and throws it into the forehead of some guy to my left.  He starts twitching violently, and then falls to the floor.  He does this to like 6-7 people, point of view keeps changing during this, usually around the door area.  I think that these people are dead, but they are not I find out in a little bit.

He then hits me in the head with one, and I fall to the ground.  All the people that have these throwing stars in their heads are now on the left of this door as looking from the inside.  They are just kinda' there, laying down.  Then somehow there is an indication in the air "to begin", and the remaining people charge us that have these stars in our foreheads.  

The view is now from ground level, like I am in a crouching position.  The first person that charges me is some strange woman, and I deflect her to my left and hold her to the ground face down with my right hand on her neck.  I feel everyone else on top of me, like it's a huge pile of people wrestling each other.  I notice that this woman's neck is very thin.  I think to myself that she and I are going to sneak out of here.

Dream ends.

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Oy vey.  Well, this one didn't seem to last too long.  Can't think of any details that need extra commenting upon.

ROFL, I can't believe this is news!  Didn't Masters and Johnson come to these same conclusions like, oh, 35 YEARS AGO?!!?!  AHAHAHHA.  Scientists should spend more time and money coming here to the AP to study some stuff that MATTERS!

[V]

Since I'm thinking about the subject, there's one more aviation dream I need to get off my dream-chest. []

Never wrote it down, never told anyone about it before until now.  Some details are lost, and I can't even be sure of when I had it.  It was at least 2 years ago, maybe 4.  Somewhere between 2-4 I am sure of.  And the sucky thing is, I remember having it twice in a short time-span, perhaps a week between sessions.

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It was night-time.  I was at a very large airport, somewhere.  It was very busy, busier than you would find at a real airport.  Planes would come in to land, planes would go an take-off.  Look, here comes a plane.  Holy excrement, it just flipped upside down and plummeted onto the runway.  Emergency equipment would come out and suddenly the mess would be gone.  A few minutes later, another one would turn on it's side after taking of, do these crazy cartwheels and crash.  Crash after crash after crash would occur through the night, and there were all these people around just staring, like people stare at car wrecks.

I kept thinking to myself, "Why on earth don't they stop this?  This is madness!  For God's sake, shut the airport down!"  It was as if this were just a normal occurence to these people, to this weird society.  Like a frickin' spectator sport.  Planes would collide, people would cheer.  Clean up the mess, another one comes down.  Like every 3-4 normal takeoffs and landings and then there would be a crash, and people were camped out around the place to watch.  Just utterly horrible.
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That's all the detail I can, or care to, remember.  I'm not afraid of flying, and there is no trauma in my family or friend network involving airplanes at all.  Hell, I love to fly.

As much as I hate to admit to myself, I am absolutley sure I was entrenched in the dark side of the collective human psyche in this one.  People are way too interested in disasters for my tastes, heh.

Bleh.

G3mm4...

I thought about it some, and in truth most of my dreams are not about airports; it's just that if you could put the vividness of dreams on a scale of 1-10, then many of the vivid ones in the 8 to 10 range involve aviation.  That's a more accurate way to say it, heh.

I don't get many of them as vivid as the ones posted below, as can be gleaned from the chronological span between them.  And if they are not of a certain level of detail, I don't bother writing them down because they don't read in any sensical manner.

Here's an example of one from last night that I would not have bothered to jot down.

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6/9/04

I believe it started in some strange woman's house.  I know she was married, husband had just left.  Air-conditioner was running, and lots of water started flowing onto the carpet from the A/C, as if it was set-up to drain into the house.  Then LOTS of water started flowing into the house.  Lots, like the A/C was generating a small waterfall.  I open the window and look down at the A/C from above, and there is a wall of water flowing up, over the top and into the house.

Woman was trying to seduce me somehow (succubus?).  Then she was in a bathtub, telling me to look at her.  I told her it was wrong.  She kept flaunting her body in another room now, we eventually started kissing.  

Shift...

Now the house is filled with the rushing sound of water.  Water is flowing everywhere from the huge rainstorm outside...I remember seeing lightning flashes.  The house had changed, now it was a huge old wooden house, water is running down from above all over the place, different floors...I checked the attic, the water was not coming from a leaky roof, it was dry in there...

I checked the basement, and to get to the basement you had to push down on one of those folding staircase-type deals that you usually use to get to an attic.  I push down the starircase and it open up into an outdoor field covered with a huge open-air hangar-type building.  So the house was in the attic of this outdoor environment(?)

Was a long building, next to a Home Depot.  Seems this is some huge structure my ex step-father was building for a business of some sort?  I go to one end where there is a vegatable garden growing, a strange man is there picking the crop.  He hands me a tomato, a large bunch of green bananas  (I clearly remember him saying they were some kind of "sweet..."  Can't remember, it's faded).  He says they are extras, to take them.  I take them somewhere, (all fading now)...

Shift to a large family gathering, many relatives from my dad's side of family are there, plus many strangers.  Some recognized me...

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Well anyhow, as you can see, for me dreams that are not clear and vivid are impossible to write about in a coherent matter.

As I am in between jobs, I have more time to try and fall into a dream state, and usually what will happen is I will sleep normally, and then after waking up I will try to "fall asleep" again, and over the course of 3-4 hours, can induce another 2-3 dreaming sessions.

I wish I was able to get further and get lucid (I have done this only rarely, can't get the knack of it), or AP and whatnot, but I am too distracted mentally to practice any breathing exercises.  I am sure some wonderful adventures await me if I could do so, but alas, I'm stuck in this wacky dreaming rut for now.

Well, I do not have the problems of a wife or a boss, and so my dreams are your dreams.  I can give nothing else.

Hell yeah Cairnsb, let's hear (read) your dreams!  I am going no-holds-barred on mine at this point, because I simply no longer CARE.  I know that once we are done here, it is all going to be known anyways!  So why be embarrassed about your dreams!  

Dreams are fun!  Let's have some fun!  FUN!  Key-word!

A couple of notes here for the above...

A) I wrote that out as a pure journal entry on each morning-after, and in the context of a certain online guild I am a part of, so names might seem odd.

B) If many of the dreams seem to be centered around airplanes and airports, I would only say that this may have something to do with the fact that I am under the main approach path for JFK airport in NYC.  There are planes coming in at all odd-butt hours of the night...Big ones.  Perhaps them flying over have influenced the framework my dreaming consciousness has placed these memories.  It is something to consider.  But also consider that I have flight training experience as well.  Who the hell knows on that bit.

All I know is, these are wildly entertaining and complex dreams.  I hope you enjoy reading them as much as I have experienced them, and if you care, I can push my journal to this website instead of my old guild.  (They were not that interested anyhow, unfortunatley  ((    )

I think I lost one of my dreams in making up this post, compiling it from various .docs.    Nevermind the preamble and names...You won't be distracted by them.  Also, note that this is my last-ditch effort to try to find a common ground.  If I do not after a few months of this, I'mm off and away to a better place.  Teehee!

After last night's dream, I started to think back about another one I had in 2001, and while it was vivid as hell and made me think, I totally filed it away and left it for dead because it just seemed nonsensical to me at the time.

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Sometime during the summer of 2001 I had this very short dream where I was at Chicago's O'Hare airport. I was outside, kind of standing-floating over a road or parking lot of some sort, and the sky was crystal clear blue. It was morning and I was standing north. I looked to my left and saw the main airport terminal. I looked to the right, and off in the far distance I saw a plume of black smoke rising, on the horizon. Dream ended.
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Well, I'm not going to bother speculating what that one was about.

So anyway, here's what went down last night in Hoo's la-la land.. It was very strong, and very bizarre. Enjoy, if you can.

Captain's log...

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3/9/04

It opens up in some airport, where I had just gotten off a flight and was looking at a sign which told you which terminal had the baggage of each airline. I had just gotten off a Virgin Airways flight (which I did not know until I looked at the sign with all the airline names), and the sign said terminal 65 for Virgin, with an arrow pointing left. Then headed to some odd "waiting" area that had the sense of an old high-school room. Nedd was there, along with many people that I seemed to know in the dream but with only vague familiarity. I knew that all in the room were on the same flight and had come back from some vacation together.

The room had windows on one side on my left and was on ground level, and as I was staring out the window I suddenly noticed this jetliner coming VERY VERY (think lightspeed) fast right at the window I was standing behind. In a blink, this plane went right through the room/building, but made very little to no noise, and sliced through everything like paper.

The main portion of the room where the plane had gone through was gone and in it's place there was what I could only describe as a "fuzzy reality", where existence was blurred.

Looking at the walls, there were very thin "slits" where the wings had passed through, on both sides of the room and wherever else there was a solid object.

Looking down at my feet, I saw this scrape line along the floor that indicated the where end of the wing was. This mark was no more than an inch from my toes, and I looked to my right and saw my briefcase there on the ground, right at the edge of this mark. The brifecase had gotten clipped a bit and was missing a little bit of the leather covering in one corner.

On my left I saw Nedd standing there, same deal with feet standing super close to this "line". I said, "Holy excrement nedd, that thing missed us by like an inch or two! Holy excrement!" Absolute feeling of awe and fear. The other people in the room didn't seem phased by this at all. They just had a kind of relaxed jovial feeling one might have right after a nice vacation.

Now I am standing outside, walking to some reporter who was looking back at the building. I turn to look at the building, and could see it was made of either red brick or old brownstone. There was a clean hole where the body of the plane hit the building. I looked farther out behind the building and saw another hole punching through the view of a row of residential houses. Think of a hole in a photograph.

The reporter said, "Boy, that was something else." I said, "But my god, all those people in those houses!" I remember having this terrible feeling about that plane crashing through countless houses. There was no smoke or fire in the distance however.

Next scene is back at the beginning of this, all EXACTLY like before. Every nuance, every sensorial element. I am standing at that sign for the luggage, and my eyes fall onto Virgin Airways, terminal 65. The arrow pointed left. Everything was the same until we got to the room.

I am back in the "holding" room, but there was no incoming plane this time...The room was the same as before the plane tore through it in the first sequence. Nedd was not there. This thin brunette with some unrecognizable black outfit was sitting at a small square desk. I walked passed her and heard her go "Ow!" I turned around and said, "Sorry, did I hit your hand?" Right as I said that, I realized I had stepped on her toe and mentally thought, "oops". She pointed to her bare feet and said, "No, you stepped on my toe." I looked down and sure enough, she was barefoot. Red toenail polish. I felt like I knew her in some way, but did not recognize her.

Next scene flashes to the people on my flight all going up an escalator to get their luggage, and the line was long so I tried to find a shortcut on the left side of the escalator. I had to duck under this thin red rope or tape. It then started to get too dark to see anything so I turned around and walked back to the people shuffling onto the escalator, ducked under the same red tape/rope that was strung like a "do not pass" line, and started going up. When we neared the top the dream ended.

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3/15/04

Very vauge...

An old American car trying to make it's way through 5 feet of water, and stalling out. I had wondered what would cause all this water to be here, and was then transformed onto a scene of lots and lots of snow melting and the water cascading down the river valleys.

Pretty much the end of the dream there.


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3/19/04

A large room with a giant elevated "platform" of sorts in a corner of the room. This platform was coated with and was a container for some sort of bubbling acid. When objects were thrown into this acid, they would sink and one of two things would happen...

There would be bubbles coming from where it sank and nothing would happen. These objects were "duds".

Or, there would be small bolts of blue lightning on the surface, and then this cylinder of circular energy would start rising from it, and inside blue and green "energy streaks" would start forming a new object. After a moment, a new child's toy would be there, hovering over the surface, like a toy airplane, robot, or some other trinket you would find in the bargain bin of a toy store.

The object would then poof and appear on a table nearby, complete with retail packaging and a sense of monetary value.

Usually, objects made of plastic would generate toys, while most other objects fizzled and did nothing.

There was a sense of excitement when throwing in an object to see if it would either fizzle out or would generate those initial blue lightning bolts. If you saw the bolts, you knew you succeeded in creating something new.

I saw on that table some really large and complex retail packages, and asked how those objects were made.

I was told that these little things being thrown in would only generate consolation items, little nothings. The real goods were generated by finding a certain object that appeared outside once every two days, and this person pointed out a window to where they could be found.

"Every two days an object to make a complex item worth a lot spawns out there, you just have to be the first to find it", pointing to an outcropping of stone and brush outside, across a small field. "How would I know what the object is", I asked?

"You have to ask people with more experience", was the reply.

I sensed that there were even better objects to be found to the right of where he was indicating, in some other part of that field, and that nobody had found it yet.

Dream pretty much ended there.

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3/25/04

An odd one

Opens up in a jetliner parked on an airport ramp at night, with snow and ice covering the taxi-ways/runways. The plane is empty except for me. I look into the cockpit and somehow know that this plane only needs a 2-man crew, even though there is a seat for a flight engineer. I remember thinking, "I hope I can ride in the engineer seat during the flight."

The copilot gets on board and intends to taxi out to some other place in the airport...He gets in the left seat and starts moving the plane around...At one point he does a three-point turn like in a car, to change direction. At this point there are voices coming over the com radio, clearances being given and whatnot. In the co-pilot's frustration at trying to move the plane around, he hastily steps over the communications and asks for clearance.

A sec or two of silence follows, and someone says over the air, "Good job, asking for that over the intercom." The peeps on the radio all start berating him, calling him names. The co-pilot now has the plane heading straight down the taxiway, but seem highly upset at what just happened and keeps saying to himself, "Damnit, now I have to make that phone call, I'm in so much trouble."

He somehow just leaves the jet while it is moving, to go to a payphone behind us. The plane start moving faster down the taxi-way, so I jump into the seat and jam on the rudder pedals to try to brake the plane (brakes are activated by pushing toes forward on the pedals). I am putting all my weight on them, but the plane keeps skidding around because of the snow.

I get very confused as to why the plane keeps yawing to one side or another while putting equal pressure on both pedals, hearing the brakes grind. I see on the right side ahead a small private plane, and am trying to keep the huge jet from rolling over it, but it does, and crushes it with the nose-wheel, just missing a wall that is there. Now the plane is skewing left again. I try throttling each engine counter to the direction we are heading to get the plane to go straight, but it does no good.

Each time I get it to go straight down the centerline, it just starts skewing left or right. Soon there is on the left side what looks like an embankment and the plane is about to fall into it, but I hear a woman's voice yell in my dream-mind, "Don't let it fall over the side!!!"

Then I sense this same woman running after the plane down the runway, yelling, "You have brake with just one pedal, then hold it with your hand!!!" I have no idea what that means, and she keeps yelling this over and over.

Now the plane has slid a u-turn and is heading the other way. It finally clicks in what she means, so I brake with the left pedal for a few seconds, then jump down and grab the pedal with my hand, and the plane finally slows down and eventually comes to a halt.

I am then outside the plane facing the nose, and am holding onto what appears to be a long telescopic antenna attached to the front of the plane, about 50 feet long. I can hear the plane creaking as it tries to slide down an incline, but I am still holding it at rest with this now imaginary point in air attached to this long horizontal antenna/metal bar.

Scene flashes to me standing at this small plane that was crushed, looking at all the pieces scattered about like the Delorean from Back to the Future III. I am thinking, "That was not caused by me, was it? That stupid co-pilot should not have left the plane!"

Next scene now flashes to a few passengers and the chief pilot walking along Community Drive just south of Northern Blvd in Manhasset. The passengers seem upset the flight was cancelled. They ask the captain why it was cancelled, and he says, "Because it's over 12 hours late."

Dream pretty much ended there.
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4/2/04

Was in a university of some sort, and had a sense of not needing any of the classes. I was peeking into a classroom and observing an old professor giving a lesson on some unknown subject, was a woman. I remember having fond memories of taking her class in the past, whatever class it was. (In-dream memories or feelings, not related to any RL association.)

I remember I had just been in some terrible accident and my left leg was injured, and some unknown friend of mine had been killed. I actually remember a sharp pain as I tried hobbling without a special cane/support I had with me.

Suddenly the professor was now a man teaching, and I was in the classroom with my cane. The man was angry at me for "cheating" at the class by looking in on it. I said to him, "Hey, I'm late because I was just in a bad accident!" and was feeling very angry at him for him not understanding the reason why I was late without me having to tell him.

The students and the professor were all eating cake, they had huge slices of yellow-food cake with pink (and green/yellow?) frosting, and I was ticked-off I could not have a slice because I was not partaking in the class (?). I remember the professor holding his cake on a plate, standing there, berating me for "cheating" on his class by looking in ahead of time.

An old RL friend was there trying to console me, comfort me in some way while I stood there propping myself up on this weird cane. I got very fed up with being berated and understood that I was somehow "beyond needing any of this."

I headed down, or rather kind of just appeared, in the lobby of the university building. I was carrying a stack of books with me to the exit, which was a typical revolving glass door, except it was spinning too fast for me to enter. I was standing right at the edge of the rotating door, feeling it brush by my hands, knowing I could not enter because it would crush me.

Suddenly I am outside the building looking back at the door, holding the books with two hands while also holding myself up with the cane. Weird. It was daytime, time of day indeterminable, no direct sunlight. I observe that the revolving glass door is now rotating at incredible speed, and increasing.

To the right of this door is a large-screen projection TV behind a glass display case with some unknown show on.

As the door continues to increase in rotational speed, its diameter is shrinking more and more the faster and faster it spins, contrary to physical law. Faster and faster and faster it is spinning, and I can now feel and hear it vibrating. A sense of panic starts to develop as I sense great danger because of that door. Faster and faster and faster it keeps spinning, getting smaller and smaller, and is now sending ripples or waves through the "physical reality" of the structures around it, making the glass walls, floor and ceiling "shimmer". It starts to break up/interfere with the videostream playing on the TV on the right. Some Asian girl is now standing in front of the door and watching it with the curiosity of a small child, and I scream in my mind for her to get out of there, but she doesn't hear/pay attention to me. I am fearing for her life. (This might have been someone I knew in RL, from Taiwan, but I could not see her face in the dream. Most likely was just an unknown person.)

Now my old RL friend from before is to her left, and I try to tell him to get everyone the hell out of there, for him to get out of there, to get the bonk away from that door, but I cannot speak. Yet I know I am communicating with him through thought, and he just kind of stands there.

The "vibrating sound" is very loud now, the whole reality is "shimmering" with these ripples, the door an absolute blur, and I can sense it is about to explode/implode/whatever.

I start hobbling away with the books and no cane, and each step on my left leg sends a sharp pain through it, fearing for everyone inside the building.

I somehow see behind me without looking as parts of the door start to come free, and here the full dreaming state ended and I found myself in that funny place between dream and awake state, where the mind tries to fill in the rest of the detail. I stopped it from doing that and woke myself up.

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4/16/04

Vivid astrals, tough to describe.

Bright sunny area with caves nearby. Am "living" in this cave network with RL ex-fiance'. Day and night transit very rapidly here...Day turns to night very quickly with no real twilight. There is something very very important in the night sky, and every night we have to view this object.

Upon dream start, it is daytime and there is an enclosed bulletin board downhill from this "cave area", and behind the plexiglass is a star-chart which shows where in the night sky this object is. I take out the star-chart and in glowing-white lettering are labels for the major objects. The object that is very very important is labeled "BBE", and right above it is an object labeled "BB9". "BBE" is the uber-important object that must be seen. It has some sort of connection with an ancient city. Nighttime comes and the object can be seen with naked eye with only dim fuzzy detail. Using some sort of "device" we have, we see the object as a less-dim fuzzy object, heh. But it is the most important stellar object in the sky for some reason. Very old, very ancient.

There are light sexual overtones throughout this one for some reason.

There is a dark-skinned man living in this weird cave area with us, total stranger, but is non-threatening. When daytime comes, somehow the sunlight is shining down through the ceiling of the cave complex.

Shift...

New place, new dreamstate. Am in a large metropolitan city of some sort, and I have a subpoena to serve. It is neither day nor night, but rather both at the same time. It is dark-light. Lots of people and cars everywhere, have trouble finding a place to park. Find a place to park, and start walking to some unknown destination. I walk through a school-yard where tons of kids from broken homes and neighborhoods are leaving school. Kids everywhere of all ages, from like 8-15 YO.

I get to this company building and enter. In a large room is a lady behind a desk. I say I have an employment record subpoena for one of their employees. The woman calls on the intercom for some guy to come to the front desk. I notice there is a New York Post in the in/outbox on her desk, folded, but I can't make out any text.

The wall behind her turns transparent and I can see a large area of space behind her with desks, but no people. Some guy comes out from a door behind her to her right and asks who it is for. I show this gentleman the subpoena and say, "See, the subpoena is for..." On the sub is a very long company name, but I cannot read it. It is like blocked out. "Well, it doesn't matter", I say, "Because here is the authorization from...Michael E...Chiango? Chiako?" The guy says "Chiango, yes. But he doesn't work here."

At this point strange things happen all at once. In remembering back to this instant of the dream I am positive beyond all doubt that the first name for the deponent is Thomas E., and the last name was Ciako, Chiako, Ciango or Chiango. His address on the authorization was Albany, NY.

I immediately sense that these two people are lying through their teeth and have hostility toward me, but I can sense that the guy is working there, and was several floors above me.

I now have a flashback, in the dream, of going to the last known living address of this Thomas, and it is an apartment building with an enunciator board. I don't see the name on the board, and sense that he moved out long ago.

I point my hand toward the wall in the direction I entered the building, turn it transparent and tell the guy, "See that building there across the street? Thomas used to live there long ago." The guys nods and mumbles some things I cannot understand, but finishes with "...and anyway it would have to be processed through the Mobil corporation." He refuses to take the subpoena. I look back to the woman and the man, nod to myself and walk out. Just as I close the door I open the mail slot of the door and shove the subpoena through it. I can see the guy's legs, and he is walking briskly to the door. "You have been served, fool" I think to myself and take off running, to the left as you look outside. I can sense the guy chasing me. I round the corner of the building and see two choices...On the left is a staircase to the roof of the building, to the right in general is the metro area I came from. I decide to head to the right.

I am now wandering this city area again, and have completely forgotten where I parked the car, and I panic a bit because I know I can't leave this place without the car.

I come again to the same school-yard, kids are still everywhere. There are parents and teen brothers and sisters there as well, walking with them. I stop at the corner of this fence, and take my right arm and somehow raise myself straight up with my elbow on the fencepost so I can see over everyone's heads. So weird. Imagine putting your elbow laterally on somebody else's shoulder, pressing DOWN and feeling yourself move UP.

I see a staircase ahead that leads up to a street (as if this schoolyard were depressed 10 feet below street level.)

I am wandering the streets again, and there are still lots of people everywhere, but now I notice lots of cops also.

Shift now to some weird office space, where my RL client is working. His usual assistant is instead an old RL friend of mine named Patricia, and she hands me a piece of paperboard with two pieces of sticky tape on the back and asks me to paste it to some door before I leave. I stick it on some door and see an odd sequence of numbers on either end of this strip of paperboard.

I am now in a back room of this office, where there are old board games of all sorts, a shelf with an Atari 5200 that is half apart but still works (don't know how I knew this), and a bunch of old Atari 2600 cartridges in excellent shape. I am happy it still works and that there are two 5200 controllers with the unit, except they are not the normal kind with the analog stick on top and 12-digit keypad below it, but the stick is in the center and says "Atari 5200" in the upper-left corner of it.

Pretty much ended there.

I think it is a smashing idea! I have a smidgen of a dream journal I have kept, a work in progress...

Damn website, I am having major post problems...

Anyhoo...Michael...Please seek me out in your dream state.  I will be the gibbering idiot.


Heh, just seek me out, aye?  I do not know how else to describe me.

Poopy, I want to see this, but it is nowhere near NYC yet.  

Heh Aileron, the Teachings of Don Juan would tell you that it didhappen for your friends, so they shared in a certain reality while you branched off into a different one.

But of course, we're just splitting hairs here, because if any of it is true, then it doesn't matter what happened in actuality, but only what was believed to have happened.

Possibilities?  Endless.  Probabilities?  Possibly.  Believable?  Impossible.

Who is to know?

BAH, Patty, get rid of deck A!

Make it a totally random deck now!  You are advancing, so allow the deck to advance too!

*chuckles*

Then do what is not so obvious...Take a quiet moment, and open up the cabinet under your bathroom sink.  Toss a card in there without looking.  See?  There do be many ways to objectively get around your problems with setting up your experiment.

After all, how many times do you children or hubby go under there?

Hello aphexcoil...

I feel that there is such a preponderance of evidence (prima facie), that the burden is now on science to disprove the phenomena.  And if you keep on exploring your buzzing and vibrations, you too may find the "proof" you are looking for.

Read them all and you may start to doubt your disbelief once more...
http://www.near-death.com/index.html

Patty...

I had an idea regarding your verification attempts; perhaps you could alter it slightly in your favor, and it would sure be exciting to hear if it works!  First, my own amateur analysis of your experiment.

Perhaps your foreknowledge of what the cards COULD have been before projecting was influencing your results (Deck A).

First, take a look at the pattern of your results based on your expectations.  They are intriguing.

First you saw a ten of clubs.  Then jack of clubs, then something else.  Then the attempt to shift the card to five of diamonds, and finally you saw a king of clubs and settled for that.

As to your expectations, you went into deck A knowing you would have 1:2 odds of being correct, and knew what cards were in deck A.  Yet when you failed with a ten, you kept going until you felt satisfied.  That entered a bias into your experiment, but even that had a surprising result.  After the ten of clubs you saw no spades and no aces.  Yet the correct card was the jack of spades.  You saw all "around" the correct card but could "land" on the suit.  And look at the progression; Ten, jack, king.  Strange that it would go in order like that.  Then during the false awakening, you first saw the king of clubs again, and then saw the the missing suit (spade), and the missing denomination in the previous sequence (queen).  Just too odd.
     
For deck B, you again kept "seeing all around" the correct card (five of spades) but could not "land" on it, and so kept seeing four and six.  Perhaps your attempt to force deck A to be a five skewed your draw from deck B (although that seems a stretch)?

So while you knew what cards were in deck A, and had a 1 in 2 chance of being correct, you saw a ten the first shot and so didn't even get a chance to play the odds, so to speak, hehe.

But look at deck B!  1:52 odds, and you were right there!  All around the correct card, just not quite.

Now for the idea...

If you can get your husband involved, it would be better I feel.  There is a good chance that you are leaving a residual energy signature on the cards which could be messing up the verification attempt (true tarot readers acknowledge this phenomenon, and are aware of energy contamination).  Instead of two decks, have Mike fully shuffle a deck and place a single random card face down in the spot in your bathroom.  To add a little twist, tell him to put a coin under the card.  It might be best if he does not look at the card, lest you pick up his subconscious knowledge of the card once you are in the Astral.  As for the coin, it doesn't matter if he knows what it is, because you will be trying to identify not so much what coin it is, but what the date on the coin is, ala Frank.  (Great idea by the way Frank!)  

If he cannot or will not participate, then you can do it yourself of course.  If you have to do it, I am not sure if the coin thing would work regarding trying to identify it's type.  Even without looking at the coin while placing it down and covering it, your subconscious will know what type of coin it is based on it's size and weight, and that's not good science I reckon'.  But surely it won't know the date!  Try waiting a day or two after handling the cards before trying to project out to identify them, to allow your energies from the cards to fade.  That seems long enough.


As for me and hoo I am, Hello!   I haven't been doing much OBE practice lately.  After reviewing Robert Bruce's texts, I got some vibrations in my chest after only 3 days of practice.  A really heavy thrumming, as if my chest turned into a vibrator under a Lay-Z-Boy chair.  After that I stopped because I realized that I have a LOT of chakra work to do before getting serious with it again.  For many they don't have to, but for me, my chakras are an absolute mess, and as my mom told me after I explained to her what I did, Kundalini isn't a toy to jump in and mess with without proper conditioning of the body.  

About 2 years ago the majority of my dreams have become lucid.  It is rare for me to simply have a "plain old dream" anymore, where I am oblivious and am just a spectator with no knowledge that I am dreaming.  And they are getting more and more intense.  Within the last few months, they have gotten to the point of intensity where I intuit that they are interactions with other astral beings.  Those are the rarer ones, for sure.  It is quite exciting.

Well, that's my spam for now.  Give that a go Patty, and maybe my silly idea might work for you.  I hope so, for what you are going through with verifications is exactly the same sort of thing I will be going through once I can pull off a conscious OBE.  I am really going to want to verify for myself, but if someone else could verify their own it would give me a small sense of satisfaction.

Ciao!

As someone said in in a previous post, mankind has been grappling with the question from time immerorial.

Yet only 800 years ago, St. Thomas Aquinas was the best and most qualified expounder of all the issues that truly matter to us all.  Considering all the philosophical and religious turmoil that was happening around him in the 13th century, that he could set down his Summa Theologica could only have come from Divine inspiration.

Thankfully this gigantic tome has not been altered to fit the needs of selfish princes and kings for the aquisition of power and control over the people as time has marched on.  And thankfully still, someone was crazy enough to put all five volumes online.  

Some good reads...
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/100200.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/107500.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608b.htm

Peace.