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When I began the ROPE technique about two weeks ago, I wanted to try an awake OBE.  I relaxed, felt heavy, and then I saw my room but my eyes were closed(astral sight?).  Then, I couldn't move.  Even my breathing stopped.  Is that normal?  Is that what it feels like?  When I couldn't move, my chest stopped going up and down(my breathing).  Is that what's supposed to happen?  It is at that point when I think I can see myself lifting out of my body.  I never thought about mentioning this in any other post becasue I thought it was nothing.  Anyone that can shed some light on this is greatly appreciated!

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I was wondering if I AP in the RTZ and it is windy out, will I blow away or be taken to another plane?

I know kinda silly question.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Hey, guys!  I began doing the ROPE technique as described on RB's Treatise on Astral Projection and this is what happened.

I was lying down, raising energy to AP.  I had not tried to do this in years.  My head, where I felt the energy building, began to tingle, vibrate, and I started to feel an exit coming.  The sensations were too intense, and since I was not used to the sensations, I stopped.  I kept a glass of milk by my bed(I heard Wiccans say that eating and drinking after energy work helps close the chakras).  When I touched the styrofoam cup, nothing happened.  BUt when I placed it on my lips, I got a shock.  It did not hurt but it took me by surprise.  This happened every time(I tried this 3 times) after I did the energy work without being able to go out of body.  Then, I began hearing thumping on my walls and a voice calling my name.  A day or so later I noticed I was getting more and more tired, depressed.  Then, I started to sense a bad vibe near me.  I stopped everything and have not tried to do much of anything since.  I emailed Robert and I agree with him.  It is energy depletion.  But my main concern is this: am I causing the depletion or is it an entity?

Has anyone else experienced the shock on the lips?  Is this a normal occurrence for beginners?  Is there any negs around me?  If there are negs around, given my history, how do I proceed my work on these abilities safely?  I am not scared but I get frustrated from trying and having these things routinely occurring?  BTW, one of our neighbors has a teenager that has dabbled in magick.  The mother says something is in the girl's bedroom(this happened to me as a teen as well--not practicing magick but a malicious presence in the room).  Could it feel or sense what I am doing and be curious?  ANy ideas or suggestion would be appreciated!

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

[For furthur background refer to thr thread Astral Meeting in the OBE Discussion Forum and read my post(Ladylea). I will include as much info as poosible. If anyone has a question, please ask. This has remained unanswered for a long time. Any help is appreciated!]

For furthur background refer to thr thread Astral Meeting in the OBE Discussion Forum and read my post(Ladylea).  I will include as much info as poosible.  If anyone has a question, please ask.  This has remained unanswered for a long time.  Any help is appreciated!

When I was 15 years old I met J, 16.  We decided to go steady on Valentine's Day.  He told me one afternoon that he could enter people's dreams.  He proved it.  

He told me about a group where he used to live could AP, use telepathy, etc.  J stated that I was a part of that group but I did not know it.  Slowly, I began dreaming of a plump, bald-headed man in a brown robe with a tannish colored rope around the waist, pointing at the entrance of a tunnel.  Apparently, I was to enter.  A couple days later J asked me if I had seen anything out-of-the-ordinary.  Infact I had.  I saw the images of two boys around J's age in my mind's eye.  I told him.  I'd never met them in real life.  J asked me to remember any details about their faces and I described them.  He said it was T and M.  Friends of his in the group.  He informed me that if I did not want them there then they wouldn't be.

A week later I was still having dreams like those above.  I was talking to J about fate and us when I glanced at my left wrist.  I saw three bright red spots on the inside of my wrist arranged in an upright triangle (he had told me earlier that they formed in triangles to kill evil beings in the astral--strange to me now but how can I not believe a little bit of this after everything else) each approxiamtely one cm big.  I was taken aback.  I told J.  He stated that it was normal and there was nothing to worry about.  He assurred me not to be scared.  He said it would disappear in a couple minutes ... which it did.

*Before* J and I became a couple on Valentine's Day we would sneak out.  One night I was pushing my mom's car down the drive to crank in the street when I saw a dark figure (which looked like J) watching me.  When I went to investigate it, or he, was gone.

I have another incident that happened in 1992 that was similar.  I was awake, listening to music.  An embarrassing moment later I walked into the hallway and saw J's dark silhouette.  He was trying to speak but I could not understand what he was saying.  He had told me when he was learning to AP, T would AP and meet him in the RTZ and talk.

Has this happened to anyone else?  What does it mean?  Were the red dots an attack or a silent message or a sign?  Can anyone explain what happened between J and I?

Any furthur information to help me find out what this was would be great!

Thanks!  ...I hope nobody thinks I am weird.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I have not tried to AP in five days due to energy depletion and this problem I never thought to ask about.  I feel frustrated while trying to perform a real time AP.  I get to the point where I can feel my etheric body lifting out of the physical one and I see my surroundings with my eyes closed.  As the image becomes clearer I cannot seem to keep my eyelids from opening at that point.  I can see myself as I am lifting out but then it is like I realize what is happening and my eyes open in astonishment at what I am doing.  Sometimes I think I just want to tape them shut!  Has this happened to anyone else?  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

A week ago I was raising energy to AP.  My enrgy was very intense but I did not project.  I experienced a shock on my lips when I placed a glass of milk always after energy raising.  After three days of energy raising I started to feel tired, depressed, and achy.  I told my sister.  We downloaded NEW from Robert's site two days ago and found that this is a symptom of energy depletion.  

How can I avoid this in the future?  What did I do wrong?  Is it wise to stop praticing AP and work on my energy first?  Also, I started to feel a "dark" presence near me and a voice saying my name.  I ignored the presence and after two days it has gone.  Could I have attracted something when I started energy raising?  In short, I have experienced dark presences since childhood when my father(a whole other story) started dabbling in biofeedback, AP, and magick(not the nice kind--which I have never attempted).  




If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

 You had a great experience!  My problem with OBE's is shadow memories.  I do not download properly to remember the exit.  Usually I "wake up" midway through.  But--just as Robert says in Part One of AD--I cannot recall the previous part of the OBE despite being aware of what is going on when I "awaken".  You give me hope that I can do it, too!  

I enjoyed reading your post.



If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I am glad you have the support of one parent.  Good for you!  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I am reading Astral Dynamics right now.  In Part One, Robert discusses the mind-split effect.  It could be real-time sight.  This I have experienced since childhood without realizing what it was.  When I was 5 years old my sister and I shared a room.  We would make a game of it.  Sometimes it was hard to see(through my eyelids).  If you have a copy of Astral Dynamics, reread Part One.  If you have the means to purchase it, I highly recommend it.  Robert's theories and concepts seem so true to me.  It opened my eyes(pardon the pun) about things I had experienced before without noticing what it actually was.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I would love to know any remedies to this since I too have experienced headaches after energy raising.  I wonder if it is due to blockages or related to what DjMidgetMan stated in his first post.  Is it dangerous to raise too much energy?  I would suspect anything done too much is not good.  However, my concern is that it would cause damage instead of doing what its purpose is.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I love the various opinions in this thread.  My viewpoint is a mixture of things.  Maybe everyone does not agree with each view of "good" and "evil" but some insightful observations were discussed.  I agree with Winged Wolf: just because something wears black or looks evil does not make it so and the same thing can be said about good.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Fallen Karma, I too have experienced the point of not breathing when I am about to pull out of my body.  I bought Astral Dynamics last Friday at Barnes and Noble.  I am learning a lot and I am reading it slow, to take everything in.  I plan on working hard on NEW, breathing exercises, AP, and other things as well.  I find Robert's word choice extremely easy to understand.  I call it "reader friendly lessons".  Don't give up!  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Winged Wolf, I think you offer sound advice but you did not live there. My mom did call the police and one night someone was chased in the field next to my house by the sheriff.  No one was caught.  What happened to me was not just teens and the like.  It went further than that.  Your advice sounds good but sometimes it is not as cut and dry as you think.  The teens were doing the satanistic related things but my father was practicing ceremonial magick which, as I think you know, is entirely different.  It takes a lot more skill and discipline.  I posted a response here to offer advice and share.  It feels like you are attacking me for sharing.  I agree that we draw on OUR own experiences in order to help others.  So please respect my POV.  My experience was different from yours and I am sorry if you feel like I handled it incorrectly.  I was fifteen, living with my mom and sister(both experiencing it), finding out that my father was using ceremonial magick against us, and finding a barn that sacrificed animals to the devil.  If you could have handled it  differently, then I congratulate you!  You only hear a small part of my experience here in this post.  I do not think I deserved your attack on something you did not experience first hand.  If I misinterpreted your intent in your post, I apologize.  But to me it feels like you lack compassion about a subject that can be scary, confusing, and dangerous(depending on the level of involvement of the participants and their skill) to those never exposed to this sort of thing before it occurs.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Edited by - LadyLea on 05 March 2002  01:35:21

[Two Bears]

Here's my two cents--for what it is worth.

I lived with my mom and sister in a house that was 1000 feet from a barn that was used as a place for ritualistic killings.  When they discovered I had discovered their place of worship, they killed a pit bull, white in color, drained it of blood and placed it facing my house.  It escalted from there.  My room became the home of a spirit that loved to scare me.  Being me, I never showed my fear but I am sure it sensed it.  However, these people doing this were skilled and dangerous.  One night I walked outside to water and feed my dog when I looked into the huge field and saw a tall man smoking a cigarette, watching me.  I only saw his silhouette but that was enough.  My heart froze.  I, being defiant as usual, shrugged my shoulders and went inside--pretending it did not phase me.  But I told my sister immediately.  The next day Katy had a cut on her neck where it looked like blood had been oozing.  When we finally moved, we found knives under our beds--among other things.  I saw demons and even faced a couple myself.  Two Bears, is there a difference between a neg with green eyes and red?  I've always wondered.  I digress.  My point is this: If you are facing satanists, it is always best to be cautious but defend yourself against the psychic/spirit attacks.  If it is too much find help from a pro.  Not only were there those kind of harassing incidents but we were followed and chased.  I don't know why I wrote all this.  I guess it is because I am dealing with it even today.  The animals I saw then still haunt me.  The way they were killed and I pray they did not suffer.  But I do know that it took moving out of that state for the paranormal activity to stop--at least most of it.  Now, especially since I started trying to develop my abilities, some strange things have started.  But this time most of the activity is positive.  I live in the Southwest and I have a Indian spirit watching over me.  He revealed himself to me as a wolf(I am serious).  I think the reason why we are having positive paranormal activity(most of it) is because our house is over an underground river.  

A part of me really needed to purge myself of this.  It is difficult to talk to people about it.  Maybe someone here, in these forums, can benefit from my experience. I learned I was stronger than I thought I was.  And I am still here!

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

[is]

Hi, Sirran!  I have had experience with this.  I was the dreamer.  I have learned from people here in the forums and from real life that it takes a person skilled in this area with enough energy to control the dream.  

For me, J was the person that came to me and took me out.  I do not know if it was LD's, OBE's(more likely).  But I can say it is possible.  Read my posts in the OBE forums!  There is so much I can describe from my point of view but it would take too much space in one post.  IF you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them.  Right now, I am trying to learn to have OBE's in an controlled environment instead of depending on J to bring me out or do it without realizing it.  

Also I think there is an etiquette to it.  J said he had to have my permission before he could dream with me.  There has to be trust on both sides as well.      

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Hi, Timewalker!  And welcome!  I don't know if I can answer your questions because I am a novice at OBE's as well.  However, the main reason I decided to learn to AP/OBE/WILD/anything else is to learn more about myself and the world around me, even that which is unseen by most of us.  I too felt a pull since the age of 10 to develop my abilities.  Maybe in doing so I can help others--which I hope is where my path leads me.  I think it is great that you are seeking answers to your own instincts!  



If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Edited by - LadyLea on 25 February 2002  13:55:24

Thanks guys!  I have another question.  When I get out of body will I resume breathing again natually, without effort?  If this is the sensation that comes pre-exit and rejoining, then I must have been doing it right!  Let's see if I understand it better now.  When I am about to leave my body, the paralysis, the ability of not breathing, will all go to normal when I am out successfully?    

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Edited by - LadyLea on 25 February 2002  13:44:00

Hi, Eric!  I am sorry you live in a place that is filled with that sort of element.  I once lived near a place that was exactly as you describe.  It was awful and memories of that place still bother me--not fright but asking the question why(which will never be answered really).  I tend to think like the other responses as to whether your soul would be in more danger dying in that area.  I can understand your concern though.  IMO when we die and pass over the area around us does not concern us anymore or us with it except for family members and friends.  Also, it might depend on whether we have let go of this world(avoid being a discarnate being) and go home(where we came from).

That is my two cents.  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

David, I have experienced other abilities since the age of four.  I have been able to sense other spirits around.  When I was 6 I was visiting my grandparents.  They had a good deal of land that was filled with "strange feelings".  One day I was sitting on the back porch, looking at the distant hills.  Suddenly, I felt like I was being watched.  I focused my attention on one hill in particular and without knowing what was going to come out of my mouth, I blurted, "Indians are up there."  My great-grandmother said that the land used to belong to the Choctow Indians.  That was my first experience like that but not the last.  Also, at times, I can sense what a person is thinking or feeling.  Not their exact words but impressions with a image occasionally.  Some other things occurred at an early age.  

However, when I was raising energy--it was not a half-hearted attempt like someone said--I have never experienced the sensations of that much energy before.

I am learning but not everyone's pace at certain abilities are as fast as some others here.  I don't fret over these strange noises.  But they are kind of irritating when you are first starting out, huh?  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

[Great show on Art Bell tonight!]

Great show on Art Bell tonight!  

My mom and sister wanted to listen but they are not night owl's like me so I taped it.

Looking forward to PPSD becoming available!

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

I agree with you as well!  I witnessed some evil doings.  But the word evil is nothing like the real thing I felt then.  

I was eighteen when this happened.  One day I was crying violently, listening to "In The Air" by Phil Collins while thinking of my father, the Barn(as I call it), and my friend that committed suicide.  I walked into the bathroom, shut the door and reached for a razor blade.  I felt alone.  My spirit was dying(from the pain I kept hidden inside) and I could not think of a reason to stay.  I wanted to be released from the pain.  As I was bringing the razor to my wrist I felt a presence and heard a male voice say, "What do you think you're doing?"  I was taken aback.  I felt a hand on my shoulder.  No longer did I feel alone.  I did not continue in the way I expected.  I cut my arm up though in an attempt to release the pain I'd kept inside for three years, maybe longer.  My mom came in and asked me what I was doing.  She knew all the things that I'd been through.  I began seeing someone to talk about my past.  A professional and she wanted me to write a book about it.  She was the first person besides my mother and sister that I told that too.  It feels good to share a small part of it here.  

It was not my father who told me about the candle and the flame.  He tried to turn me to black magick(Boy! do I have stories to tell about him).  It was my boyfriend who I call J on this site that told me about the concept.  I apologize if I confused you in my former post.  

Maybe I will see some angels!  I feel them though.  Oh, yeah!  I just remembered.  I was sitting outside, enjoying the desert night, wondering where I fit into the world.  I felt a presence.  Instinctively, I looked to my right.  I saw a wolf, not a flesh and bolld wolf but a spirit-like form, walk toward me.  It watched me and I watched it.  It stayed for three minutes or so.  It was a meesage to me that I have a purpose.  Besides, IMO if you commit suicide, you have to repeat the life again.  AND I DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT!  ONCE IS ENOUGH!  But when my guard is down I feel the negs as well.  I try to ignore the negs.  

I thoroughly believe in angels AND Gabriel!  

I have a question.  Why is it everytime I try to improve my abilities I have strange things happeneing?  Someone responded to a post I made on another forum that maybe it has to do with my past, i.e., my father for one.  

BTW, blue is my favorite color(referring to your username)!  A friend said my aura was baby blue.  I guess my mind and aura are color coordinated!  That was my rather bad attempt at humor.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Several times over the years I will be asleep when I feel someone bumping my bed and calling my name.  Irritated, I would look at the foot of my bed and a bright white figure stood there.  It resmebled J.  I'd tell him to leave me alone and that I was tired and I'd ignore him until he left.  Sometimes I'd hear my name a couple more times and a couple more bumps but it stopped.  Then, I'd dream of J right after when I fell asleep again.

Do you have any friends that are into AP?    

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Hello, Moon Shadow!  I have experienced some of the same things as you except they happen while I am trying to exit.  I have only tried to AP consciously on several occasions myself but strange things always start happening.  

Once when I was seventeen I was lying in bed trying to AP and I heard the sound of feet scraping against the carpet.  I tried to ignore it but it got more persistant.  It continued for fifteen minutes even after I decided to stop.  The only time I had a successful AP( without help from others or with memory recall) was last January which was a great experience(I think I wandered off after I realized I was out and lost memory recall).

Two weeks ago I decided to try again.  The first three days were fine but I heard a male voice say my name both inside my head and near my ear.  Then, I'd feel a presence and it would say something I did not understand but it was sexual in nature(weird, I know).  Once my concentration was broken when a thumping started on my wall.  It was frustrating.  

After a couple days of this I began feeling tired, depressed and achy.  I asked others about it and they mentioned energy depletion.  I am beginning to wonder if something, a neg or other entity/spirit, is around me.  I have always had feelings of both good and bad spirits around me(I have a strange background that I try to avoid talking about but I've shared some things on this site).

I think it is great that you feel a good spirit around you.  

Could the footsteps you hear be your own?  The reason why I ask this is because you stated that you heard them when you're about to rejoin your body again.  As for the fluttering noises, it could be your energy IMO but I'm not sure.  

I hope I shed some light on your questions.  This is a great place to post them.  I wish I could answer more definitively but I'm sure someone more experienced will post soon.



If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Hi, first of all!  

I was once told something similar to your post about light and dark.  He compared good and evil to a candle's flame.  As I meditated in a dark area with a candle, I was struggling with issues of being good or evil(due to my father's practice of dark magick--which I've never done).  I asked about this.  He stated, "Good is like the flame, whereas, the evil surrounds the light.  In the heart of people there is both.  There is no black or white, only different shades of gray.  Darkness surrounds the flame but there is always light shining through, penetrating the dark, offering hope."  I found this interesting.  

I also believe it to a certain extent.  There has to be a balance or the world would break apart in chaos.  Although I would love a world with no hate, violence, or despair, we would not as spiritual beings learn.  I have always had both.  Sometimes if something really good happens something just as bad happens a week or so later.  I find that their is a respect for light and dark even though we may not see it.  I will try to explain my view as best as I can by using nature as an example.  

IMO good(light) and evil(dark) is very much like nature.  A lion can sit for hours around zebras without making any effort to kill it.  But then, without any warning, it will strike out.  Also consider a waterhole filled with crocodiles surrounded by gazelles, baboons, and various fowl being forced to live in a confined area due to lack of water.  For example, baboon A approaches the water's edge because the temperature is 100+ F degrees and must have water to produce milk for her baby.  Baboon A risks the dark(waterhole filled with crocs) to survive.  The crocodiles do not kill baboon A because they are not hungry and want to conserve energy in the heat of the sun.  But then, baboon B approaches the waterhole for a drink due cool itself a half hour later.  This time the crocodile(s) go in for the kill.  Just like baboon A must take the chance baboon B does, thus, creating a balance.  Now the crocodiles are not free from the dark either.  A croc can succomb to the heat as the waterhole is depleted of water as the drought continues or to another croc as a food source.  Or a croc can find a way to survive by digging a 2-3 feet deep hole to stay cool and conserve a little moisture to survive until the rains come.  It is a touch and go environment just like everything in life is.  Whether we are deserving or not does not matter because such things as light and dark have to blend into the environment to make gray, a balance between the two.  Without the dark there would be no order.  Without light there would be no order.  Loss and hope are two variations of light and dark.  Sometimes the loss is needed to reach hope.

I hope I explained my opinion in a way to understand how I feel light and dark are both needed.  Sometimes it is not easy to accept it when we are dealt a blow from darkness but there is always a ray of light coming from somewhere--if we look for it.

That is my view.  I hope I explained it and did not confuse you.    

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

Edited by - LadyLea on 20 February 2002  13:58:14

[However,]

I am not 100% sure but I think you did.  I recall seeing a tunnel once yet different from yours.  However, Maybe the tunnels are not the same for everyone.  I am sorry that I cannot help you out much there.  But ...

I found your LD/OOBE extremely adventurous!  And I enjoyed reading it.

I am glad you were finally able to OBE again!  

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.