REUTERS : Mexican government will release Mayan secrets on "2012"

[vagusnerves]

REUTERS :

Mexican government will release Mayan secrets on "2012" phenomena :

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-mayansecrets-idUSTRE77G4F620110817

[teddybear]

Interresting

Please post the link to this program when we can see it

[Xanth]

You realize you're only fueling more fear, right?

http://www.ourultimatereality.com/newsletters/TruthAbout2012.pdf
From: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_2012_and_the_transition_of_the_ages/truth_about_2012-t34335.0.html

Adrian put that together... and it's very well done.  I'm not saying I fully believe anything anyone has to say about it, including Adrian, HOWEVER, he debunks a lot of what is in the "article" you posted.  The article you posted only serves to further fuel the fear in the world surrounding this fake date.

Here's a really good quote from the above PDF:

Well quite simply that any claim about the outcome of "2012" based purely on "prophecies" of any kind are nothing more than superstition with no basis in fact, but could become fact if enough people believe it.

We humans are our own worst enemy... the problem is not enough people realize it yet.  :/

[CFTraveler]

A couple of things-
First, why would the Mexican Gov. have any 'Mayan' secrets?  And, the actual Mayan elders have already spoken on the subject.

[Karas]

A couple of things-
First, why would the Mexican Gov. have any 'Mayan' secrets?  And, the actual Mayan elders have already spoken on the subject.

part of the "divine plan". Wouldn't this be a comfomation that something is def gona happen? Like alot of us know this already but for a goverment to come out and wana tell us "secrets" that they kept for 80 years kinda confirms everything we belive and reserched on. But of cause they like the fear verson of 2012 and not ours 

[vagusnerves]

You realize you're only fueling more fear, right?

http://www.ourultimatereality.com/newsletters/TruthAbout2012.pdf
From: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_2012_and_the_transition_of_the_ages/truth_about_2012-t34335.0.html

Adrian put that together... and it's very well done.  I'm not saying I fully believe anything anyone has to say about it, including Adrian, HOWEVER, he debunks a lot of what is in the "article" you posted.  The article you posted only serves to further fuel the fear in the world surrounding this fake date.

Here's a really good quote from the above PDF:
We humans are our own worst enemy... the problem is not enough people realize it yet.  :/

I merely posted a link to a report by REUTERS.

I did not think that a report by REUTERS can also be equal to trash posted on a blog by a nut case, and also fuel more fear.

Anyway, I have read Adrian's article on 2012 at least 5 times already over the last 3 weeks.

As for "superstition", anything can be termed a superstition, depending on one's intention or perspective.

A Christian may condemn Hinduism of superstition, but an atheist would think Christianity is superstitious in its belief in a creator god.

By the way, I would like to very respectfully point out that  having a whole section on 2012 on this forum has been generating fear ever since it appeared, and its continued existence would generate fear constantly.

That's just my opinion here, while also respecting yours, too.

[Xanth]

By the way, I would like to very respectfully point out that  having a whole section on 2012 on this forum has been generating fear ever since it appeared, and its continued existence would generate fear constantly.

That's just my opinion here, while also respecting yours, too.

I would also like to point out that it's not the section itself that causes the fear... but the posts from the fearful, paranoid people who post in it.

This is just another example of what Adrian was speaking about when he says that "We create our own reality".
People can use these sub-forums to continue spreading fear, but that fear only begets more fear...

Personally, I would love to see a lot of these forums removed.  But that's not really up to me. 

[CFTraveler]

part of the "divine plan". Wouldn't this be a comfomation that something is def gona happen? Like alot of us know this already but for a goverment to come out and wana tell us "secrets" that they kept for 80 years kinda confirms everything we belive and reserched on. But of cause they like the fear verson of 2012 and not ours  

I'm not sure what you mean by this- what is confirmation of something?  The fact that everyone else is also saying it?
Mind you, the Reuters article actually speaks of what the son of a  Puerto Rican actor is saying- being the son of a well- known actor is not really a valid representative of the Mexican Government.  Even if he's friends with someone in it.
Unless I missed something from the article....

[Stookie_]

My theory: It's some filmmakers that are taking advantage of the 2012 hype while it's here, and getting the word out about it now so they can get some funding as well as pre-advertise the movie. What better way than through a major news source? Reuters probably have money invested or own a part of the production company.

It's speculation, but that's the type of thing the film industry does these days. At the side of the page it has related articles, and says "analysis and opinion: Film investing puts your money where your marquee is"

[Xanth]

I wonder how I can take advantage of it to make money... Hmmm...

[Volgerle]

Smells fishy, you know why? It's in the text:

"...Mexico prepares to launch the far-reaching (and tourism-inducing) 2012 Mayan World Program."

Btw, I would NEVER trust any goverment announcement / 'disclosure' anyhow. And this ('tourism-inducing') thing makes it even less plausible to me.

[vagusnerves]

I'm not sure what you mean by this- what is confirmation of something?  The fact that everyone else is also saying it?
Mind you, the Reuters article actually speaks of what the son of a  Puerto Rican actor is saying- being the son of a well- known actor is not really a valid representative of the Mexican Government.  Even if he's friends with someone in it.
Unless I missed something from the article....

The government made a mistake of agreeing to disclose the secrets to him ?

[vagusnerves]

Smells fishy, you know why? It's in the text:

"...Mexico prepares to launch the far-reaching (and tourism-inducing) 2012 Mayan World Program."

Btw, I would NEVER trust any goverment announcement / 'disclosure' anyhow. And this ('tourism-inducing') thing makes it even less plausible to me.

"Tourism-inducing" may be the editor's or writer's comment, and left to be proven.

[vagusnerves]

The only thing left for those who are really interested is to wait and examine what will be revealed.

If it is true that commercial reasons are the motivation, they are not sufficient  reasons  to label something as false, as something true or genuine may still be used to make money and induce tourism.

.

[Volgerle]

"Tourism-inducing" may be the editor's or writer's comment, and left to be proven.

no...
http://www.travelweekly.com/Mexico-Travel/Insights/In-2012,--Mayan-World--program-begins/

[Stookie_]

Good find Volgerle

[vagusnerves]

no...
http://www.travelweekly.com/Mexico-Travel/Insights/In-2012,--Mayan-World--program-begins/

Good. The next thing is to determine if the CONTENTS of the Mayan 2012 secrets are true, genuine, false, etc.

Even something that is true or genuine can be used for commercial reasons, without being less true or genuine in the process.

[CFTraveler]

Something about the comet the correspondence is based on:
http://www.universetoday.com/87619/worried-about-comet-elenin-faqs-from-ian-musgrave/

[Volgerle]

Good. The next thing is to determine if the CONTENTS of the Mayan 2012 secrets are true, genuine, false, etc.

But we might never know if these are "contents" of Mayan "secrets" at all, as they might be made up by the governments 'spin docs'- well, at least we won't before 21 Dec 12.  

I'm asking myself: if the Mayans know this stuff from their mythology or whatever, why would a Mexican government now guard these secrets? They are NOT the Mayans. Or why would they determine if and when to publish it? And why only now, doesn't this (planned) moment of publishing makes it even more suspicious now?

Btw, I 've heard and read quite often that many of the supposed descendants (currently estimated at 7 million scattered across Meso-America) as well as scholars and Maya experts ("Mayanists") said that there is nothing special (means: no known related prophesy) about this date (which is just the end of a calendar cycle - not more).

"Indeed, current debate about 21 December 2012 results from contemporary confusion from projections, assumptions, and
misunderstanding about the science and beliefs of several ancient cultures of the Americas."
- M. Van Stone (Maya scholar, Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies)
http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/2012Part1.pdf

[Xanth]

And anyway, as CFTraveler said, the Mayan Elders have kind of already "spilled the beans", sort-to-speak.  There are no "secrets" to be told.

[CFTraveler]

But we might never know if these are "contents" of Mayan "secrets" at all, as they might be made up by the governments 'spin docs'- well, at least we won't before 21 Dec 12.  

I'm asking myself: if the Mayans know this stuff from their mythology or whatever, why would a Mexican government now guard these secrets? They are NOT the Mayans. Or why would they determine if and when to publish it? And why only now, doesn't this (planned) moment of publishing makes it even more suspicious now?

Btw, I 've heard and read quite often that many of the supposed descendants (currently estimated at 7 million scattered across Meso-America) as well as scholars and Maya experts ("Mayanists") said that there is nothing special (means: no known related prophesy) about this date (which is just the end of a calendar cycle - not more).

"Indeed, current debate about 21 December 2012 results from contemporary confusion from projections, assumptions, and
misunderstanding about the science and beliefs of several ancient cultures of the Americas."
- M. Van Stone (Maya scholar, Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies)
http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/2012Part1.pdf

This is correct- the connection to 'endtimes' had to do with the person who wrote about them, a Mayan man who lived on a monastery and schooled in eschatologic prediction.  He lived with Christian monks and had dreams about the Apocalypse.  So it's not that two different cultures had the same belief, it's that one culture imposed it's belief system on the other and then told everyone about it.

[vagusnerves]

But we might never know if these are "contents" of Mayan "secrets" at all, as they might be made up by the governments 'spin docs'- well, at least we won't before 21 Dec 12.  

I'm asking myself: if the Mayans know this stuff from their mythology or whatever, why would a Mexican government now guard these secrets? They are NOT the Mayans. Or why would they determine if and when to publish it? And why only now, doesn't this (planned) moment of publishing makes it even more suspicious now?

Btw, I 've heard and read quite often that many of the supposed descendants (currently estimated at 7 million scattered across Meso-America) as well as scholars and Maya experts ("Mayanists") said that there is nothing special (means: no known related prophesy) about this date (which is just the end of a calendar cycle - not more).

"Indeed, current debate about 21 December 2012 results from contemporary confusion from projections, assumptions, and
misunderstanding about the science and beliefs of several ancient cultures of the Americas."
- M. Van Stone (Maya scholar, Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies)
http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/2012Part1.pdf

And anyway, as CFTraveler said, the Mayan Elders have kind of already "spilled the beans", sort-to-speak.  There are no "secrets" to be told.

 This is correct- the connection to 'endtimes' had to do with the person who wrote about them, a Mayan man who lived on a monastery and schooled in eschatologic prediction.  He lived with Christian monks and had dreams about the Apocalypse.  So it's not that two different cultures had the same belief, it's that one culture imposed it's belief system on the other and then told everyone about it.

PART    1 :

In the first place, experts, researchers , etc, are neither infallible nor impeccable.

Consider the following :

Corruption of Science: Fraud and Errors in Scientific Studies Skyrocket  

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233364-Corruption-of-Science-Fraud-and-Errors-in-Scientific-Studies-Skyrocket


PART   2 :

The Straw Man Fallacy :

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

Stage 1 :

The Mayans believed that the end of one great cycle of  13 Baktun (5125.26 years) is marked with catastrophes/cataclysms, and a NEW great cycle starts after that. The world does NOT end, and it continues into a new cycle. Before the joy of motherhood is the pain of childbirth.

Don Alejandro ("Wondering  Wolf") said (EXTRACTS) :

Our books are the Mayan Codices. For us, this is our writing. The hand is a book. We have 5000 codices. We study these.

The Harmonic Convergence began the Twelve Baktun, Thirteen Bahaou and will end in 2012 or 2013 by your calendar. This will end the fourth period of the sun by our calendar. There will be huge problems. Catastrophes and cataclysms will befall us. So I have been asked to speak to you and all over the world, of these prophesies and other elders, too.

Mayan astrologers know a lot but do not say everything.

During 2012-2013 there will be a great comet and a red comet. We are all creatures of the earth, but in space there are others. Comets might fall elsewhere.

EXTRACTED from :

http://awakening-minds.com/2011/08/mayan-elder-speaks-of-prophecy/

Stage 2 :

Christians project their beliefs onto such things and talk about "the end of the world" in relation to their beliefs of the Apocalypse.

Stage 3 :

Straw Man Fallacy : The belief in ANY form of catastrophe / cataclysm in relation to the end of one great cycle of the Mayan calender is condemned as if it MUST  be a foreign Christian Apocalyptic element introduced into the Mayan beliefs about the end of a cycle.

ADDITIONALLY, the 2 extremes :

On one hand : there are GULLIBLE pople who will totally believe in any nonsense proposed, claimed, etc.

on the other hand : the SKEPTICS who have been projecting their biases and prejudices that there CANNOT be any cataclysm/catastrophy in relation to 2012 , and are thereby are no better than their gullible opponents ?