Why should we believe?

[DH]

I approach 2012 with some fascination, with all of the prophecies and studies, etc.  But I just want to know -- why should we believe this apocalyptic vision over the others that have bombarded humankind for thousands of years?  Christian "prophecies" have predicted the second coming of Christ and a new age "in our generation" since the Apostle Paul.  But Christians aren't the only ones.  The New Age predicted by people like David Spangler and others  30 years ago has yet to occur.  And does anyone remember the hype that came from every direction over Y2K?  What a bust!  I'm not trying to dis anyone's beliefs.  There's a lot of what I read about 2012 that sounds good, but I just want to know -- why should we believe this vision over all of the others?  Apocalyptic visions have come and gone and the world still keeps moving on, along with a human population that doesn't seem much more enlightened and civil than its ancient ancestors.   Please convince me why we should believe.    DH

[Principle]

Regardless, If you believe this will be the date armageddon will occur or not.

You have to look at the knowledge and information provided by the source,
not individuals with their own beliefs, opinions and views.

If you consult someone from Mayan civilization,
They will tell you the Earth will enter a new cycle.

So far, The mayan calendar has been 100% Accurate.

[DH]

How do you consult someone from Mayan civilization?  And how is this different from some of my friends who have "consulted the Holy Spirit" and believe that Jesus is coming back sometime soon?  DH

[Awakened_Mind]

I wouldn't say any of the prophercies or religions are something that "we should" believe in. As if we haven't a choice.

You have to take the information given by each, scrutinise and see what you believe afterwards. The Mayan prophercy has very strong supporting evidence. While I would consider some of the recent interpretations to be an exagerration of the original framework of insight, I still believe it has merit nonetheless.

I'd agree that it is important with controversial issues to chose wisely what to accept, but I would also stress that we chose wisely what to ignore.

-AM

[Hannah b]

This is just too mathematical and logical in order to call it a belief prophency.


http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
http://www.13moon.com/prophecy%20page.htm

[DH]

Thanks for the feedback.  If anyone else wants to add his or her 2 cents worth as to why the mayan vision is accurate and more credible than other endtime scenarios, I'm still open to fact-finding.  DH

[Principle]

The Mayans are very advanced in science and math,
It is not a "Faith" belief, such as the example you used about consulting the Holy Spirit.

They are calculations.

[CFTraveler]

Gee, where to start?  First of all, apocalypse means 'unveiling', not 'the end.'  So when the book of Revelation was written, it was in a time when their established world was ending- The romans had destroyed the temple, and they were forced to scatter to different places, and their religion, which was the center of their culture, was changing also, so it was the end of the world for them.  This established an 'end of the world' mentality left behind, so that subsequent studies of Revelation were tinged with this coming of the kingdom, which became part of the religion, and the 'end days' were then moved ahead.
So the idea of there being an 'End of The World' is ours, in a cultural way, one we have inherited, and it tinges our culture- look at the movies we make, the scifi we read, etc.
Now if you look at the Mayan civilization, you have a civilization that looked at time very differently than we do.  They saw time as resonance, not linearly, which accounts for the way their calendars worked.  They had three calendars that interlocked with each other, and divided time in different ways- you had yearly time, for such things as crops, you had ceremonial or 'holy' times, for religious or spiritual pursuits, and you had epochal times, which spanned thousands (I can't remember if it went up to millions) of years.
For them time was like a frequency on a scale, like musical tones.  You harmonized one tone with another and came up with important dates and such.  This was a vastly different way of looking at times than what we have.
We look at time as a straight line, and divide our days, months and years in such a way.  So we are trying to understand a system that is based on cycles with linear minds.  In our minds, time starts and ends at a specific point in the line (the end).  But to them, it wasn't that way.  Remember, that 2012 is an endpoint in one of the 'cogs', but the epochal time goes on- it's just in a different way.
So, what I'm trying to say (in my long winded way, sigh) is that just because someone accurately predicts the end of a way, doesn't mean that the world is over.  What you believe is up to you- but this is a fascinating subject.
BTW, as to the question of someone mayan to talk to, I don't know if Jose Arguelles is mayan, but he is a present-day student of the mayan calendar, and has written many books on the subject.

[IC]

We believe whatever gives us peace to the mind, whatever seems "right" to us, isn't it?

[Selski]

CFT - that was a great post and made sense to me    Thank you, and have a karma for breakfast!

Sarah

[DH]

So, what I'm trying to say (in my long winded way, sigh) is that just because someone accurately predicts the end of a way, doesn't mean that the world is over.  What you believe is up to you- but this is a fascinating subject.
BTW, as to the question of someone mayan to talk to, I don't know if Jose Arguelles is mayan, but he is a present-day student of the mayan calendar, and has written many books on the subject.

You weren't "long winded."  You wrote well!  It's a complex subject.  Thanks for the time.  DH

[DH]

The Mayans are very advanced in science and math,
It is not a "Faith" belief, such as the example you used about consulting the Holy Spirit.

They are calculations.

The Mayan understanding of the universe was based upon their observations within their cultural belief system and religious indoctrination.  I still don't see how their calculations are any less a "faith" belief than than the apocalyptic calculations that have come from others groups.  What science (minus the metaphysical slant of course) backs the mayan calculations?  I'm not trying to be difficult.  I'm just a seeker.  DH

[Hannah b]

The Mayan understanding of the universe was based upon their observations within their cultural belief system and religious indoctrination.  I still don't see how their calculations are any less a "faith" belief than than the apocalyptic calculations that have come from others groups. 

DH,
the humans that have accustomed the Mayan knowledge are still only humans, who we can see today in Central America up to today.
The Maya,the origin, is way above that. It has nothing to do with the "human maya" cultural belief system and religious indoctrination. The calendars have been "tought" to the human race, but the origin in higher dimensions than our 3D earth.

Many cultures that have been created by higher civilizations (well...actually all have been created this way) and most are somehow connected to 2012.
http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new4.htm#kali (watch out tons of info here  )

More about the origins of Mayan civilization (and others) is in this great book:
Gods, Genes, and Consciousness
Nonhuman Intervention in Human History  http://www.hamptonroadspub.com/book/364/ex/1

here is a quote from it :

The Pleiadians

The Pleiadians have been important to humans for at least 60,000 years. That's how long the Dogon of Mali in Africa claim Pleiadian connections in human history. Similar myths can be found among those of ancient Greece and China. Writers José Argüelles and Aluna Joy Yaxk'in link Mayan and Pleiadian cosmologies. According to Argüelles, the Mayans may have tracked and communicated with the Pleiades. Other Central and South American peoples, particularly the Toltecs and the Incas, included the Pleiades in their rituals. In more recent times, Swiss UFO researcher Billy Meier reported contacts with Pleiadians in the 1970s, and Barbara Marciniak began to channel them in 1988.

Marciniak's book Bringers of the Dawn set the stage for an outpouring of Pleiadian material in the 1990s. The AB collective she channeled claims to have common ancestors with humans. Marciniak says they are concerned that we come to understand our true legacy and take responsibility for ourselves rather than remaining subject to ABs who have their own interests at heart.

These Pleiadians say some of their ancestors came to Earth in the distant past, seeded the planet with love and creativity, and gave some of their DNA to the human species. This shared DNA is why they consider us their distant cousins. They want to help us remember who we are, develop our telepathic skills, learn how we are connected to all facets of the universe, and understand our earlier incarnations on Earth. They tell us that another group of ABs ¬(creator gods) raided the Earth about 300,000 B.P. and rearranged human DNA. This point began a new phase in human history where we were disadvantaged by the DNA manipulation. They say the ABs spoken of in the Babylonia/Sumerian tablets were those who enslaved humans at that time. They also say these ABs engaged in nuclear warfare among themselves and left a legacy of radiation.

A favorite source for information on Pleiadians is the well-known writer and consciousness researcher Barbara Hand Clow. In her 1995 book, The Pleiadian Agenda, the voice of a being who called itself Satya of Alcyone (the brightest of the "Seven Sisters" stars) described AB involvement in human history. Satya says Pleiadians have mingled with humans as our teachers for 26,000 years. Satya says Pleiadians tried to help humans avoid an atmospheric-based cataclysm, including a pole shift, around 11,000 B.P. (allegedly caused by Earth entering their star's photon belt). The Pleiadians allegedly tried to help the survivors afterwards by leading them to better locations. (Remember this later during my discussion of Noah.)

The channeled voices claim that in addition to Pleiadians there have been several interventions by other groups of ABs, including:

•  The Anunnaki who ruled Earth for thousands of years, whom we learned to worship as gods, including Anu who said he was our Lord. Satya said the Anunnaki were from planet Nibiru, which long ago shifted from an orbit around star Sirius A to become the Planet X of our solar system.

•  The Maya (Timekeepers) from a star near Alcyone in the Pleiades, from whose name came the Maya of Central America, and who visit Earth when their planet cycles nearby. They allegedly left the last time in the ninth century C.E., a date that coincides with archaeologists' estimated fall of the Mayan civilization.
•  The Sirians who have long had our best interests at heart.

Amorah Quan Yin's Pleiadian voices describe a planetary system (ours) embedded in a larger star system with the Pleiades at the center (also see Argüelles on this point). This celestial organism operates in several dimensions, where human souls have experienced many different stages of development. Before Earth, some of those stages involved incarnations on Venus, Mars, and Maldek—the name for the planet subsequently smashed into the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. (Note Rudolf Steiner's perspective on this, following shortly.)

All the best

[DH]

Many cultures that have been created by higher civilizations (well...actually all have been created this way) and most are somehow connected to 2012.
http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new4.htm#kali (watch out tons of info here  )

Thanks for your input.. I appeciate the time and thought you put into your responses.  DH   

[Hannah b]

You're most welcome DH! It's pure pleasure

[CFTraveler]

CFT - that was a great post and made sense to me    Thank you, and have a karma for breakfast!

Sarah

Thanks!  Yum.  Now some coffee to go with it.