a question you might not like

[bitkari]

Well, any dilution of the forum makes sense.

Back in the early 90's when not that many people used the Internet, the atmosphere of the net was totally different.

Eventually the masses swarmed on to the net, along with the associated issues like commercialisation, spam, and of course a prolific number of newbies. The dynamic changed.

[cube]

And so it goes with all groups of people. First it's just a few noobs who start things rolling, then when they finally figure things out enough to attract more people they get all elitist and start pointing fingers at the new folk, having totally forgotten they started out as noobs.

[Gandalf]

I think that some people are overly negative about the forums. This forum is still, by far, THE best astral related forum on the internet. I have learned so much during my time here and I have been able to put plenty of this advice to good use; as a result my astral experiences have been transformed, but it woudnt have happened if I had not spent the time here, sharing experiences and debating/learning techniques theories etc.

By far the most important aspect has been the encouragement that people on the forum give eoch other, it gives you the incentive to keep pushing your next experience to get that little bit extra, also great is the incentive to do well so that you can post your experience for others to see and hopefully comment on; the chance to share in each others experiences is something that many people here dont have a chance to do out there in the 'real' world, where friends and family have no interest/knowledge of astral related matters.

I was a newbie here myself once, as we all were, but although I agree that there are some threads that I no longer read as I am so familiar with the material, I absolutly support the continuation of them, as I recognise that there will be others like me, who come here for the first time and need as much info as possible.

All we are talking about is being selective. Feel free to ignore threads that you know inside out, and look for the gems of info and experiences that you require now, you WILL find them in amongst all the other information; there are some great threads out there.

Like others, I will only post astral experiences which I feel to be exceptional in some way (to my previous ones), also I dont have time to type out every experience I have on a regular basis, I wish I did!
However, If people are interested I will try to make more effort in future.

If there is a problem, perhaps it is the sheer amount of sub-forums. Before, when there were less, the info coming in was more concentrated and therefore there was a greater amount of good posts in any one forum; now it is spread thinly over a huge variety of somewhat pointless forums imo ('magic' for example, do we really need a forum dedicated to it?

So If I was going to suggest anything, it would be to perhaps prune away some of the more pointless forums so that everyone is channeled into a smaller selection of good ones. That is how it was in the past and it worked very well.

Perhaps this has been realised already, with the closure of one of the 'energy' forums.

Anyway, stay positive and remember that this is by far the best astral related forum out there and has the best 'community spirit', which is essential for giving encouragement and driving forth progress!

Onwards and upwards!
Douglas

[Tolvor]

I'm glad this topic has been bumped back up again.  I am a gross newbie on this, and so I guess I'm as guilty as any in making shallow and uninteresting posts.  As a newbie, and like most newbies, I do use the search feature to find if the question has been asked before, and use restraint when asking a question or responding to a question with what knowledge I have.  I felt then, when the message was first posted, and now that goku was being elitest and exclusionary.

Every discipline, any field of endeavor, has a hierarchy of personal progression shaped like a pyramid.  There are a very few masters at the top, a fair number of very talented practioners, and hordes of the untrained (I count myself at this level).  If, for some strange reason, the upper levels kill the lower levels, then there will be fewer talented or masters in the future, and the pyramid will shrink and die.  This should be easy enough to understand.  To *some* degree the upper levels has a *limited* responsibility to instruct the lower ranks to help them progress.  The criteria on who they teach, what knowledge they dispense or how often is up to them.  This is one of the reasons that vast effort is spent to try to educate children.  The worst kind of teacher is one that will stand up and say 'That is a stupid question!', or 'The answer to that is obvious!'.  

The other side of the coin of the teachers responsibility is the students responsibility.  While here I listen more than I speak.  I practice before I ask.  I read all that I can, here and at other websites.  I will see what works, and go with whatever seems to give me the best results.  I won't complain at lack of progress.  And I won't bother the teachers with pointless questions that I can already find the answers to.  In the end, whether or not I can OBE/AP will be up to me.

This is true even in the professional world.  Every job I've been in I've had to pass knowledge and instruction to various workers, often several times to individual workers, and occasionally often to the not-so-bright ones.  I don't squelch them, don't belittle them, and I don't point out that the question they just asked is answered quite clearly in the employee handbook, or is printed in a nice diagram hanging on the wall in big red letters.  If I did, they could complain, and I could be fired.  Today's business is about cooperation and integration.  Microsoft has a employee mentor program.  Sun Microsystems uses a open-question system (employees can ask why certain things are done they way they are).  Saturn (GM) uses a employee feedback and bottom-up (employees fill out managers review cards) feedback.  My point is that your viewpoint doesn't even apply to a business model of instruction or information handling.

I have found interesting tidbits in unlikely posts.  To cull the posts based on only what interest the master's of OBE would severely limit what I can learn.  For me, I'm not as interested in what you do after you achieve OBE, but *HOW* you got there.  As such, I value some of the posts that you hate.  I'm interested in how people progress.  If they got closer, I will listen and consider it.  If they found a nice binaural pattern that they love, I'll make note of it and see if it helps me.  If they want to talk of the war of 2012, I'll ignore it, and determine that I'll make sure I OBE before then.  That is the nature of a forum, anything can be discussed, and the posts, however unworthy, will be of interest to someone, but not necessarily to you.

I'm sorry that this is long, but I was able to resist this thread the first time it came around, but had to post my (rant?) now.

[goku22]

The only thing I'll say in my defense is that I don't consider myself some sort of expert in metaphysical subjects, and have never said so, all I said is that I've been on the forum for a while and it used to be better than it is now, and I felt like pointing that out to see how others felt about it. Also, I find many newbie posts very interesting, many times they bring up different views of previous topics. I just get tired of the dilution as biktari put it. I guess that is a bit elitist, I try to not exclude any worthwhile conversation, just what I feel is crap. I guess that was more than one thing in my defense, oh well, I tend to rant. [] Ben

[Gandalf]

I think it's good to always remember that what we define as an 'expert' is only relative to us. On a larger metaphysical level our minute grain of half-knowledge is probably laughable!

One on my favourite occult proverbs is applicable here and should be remembered by all so called 'experts':

'To realise that you know nothing is the beginning of wisdom'


Douglas

[Ybom]

I'm not going to comment on the wisdom quote, Gandalf, since it's only partially right, but I will say that all comments play a role in the community. If no one had ever flamed or asked the same question a million times over, then we wouldn't have a good grasping of what a truly "bad" post was, so are those posts bad, really? If you look at everything on the whole and put the framework of nature over it, it starts to make sense where those half-knowledge grains have their part. Laughable is where my butt is, and even then that has it's role.

The last thing I wish to adress is the loose term of 'experts' as a defined entity. We are all experts at being us, and since we are all similar physically/mentally/emotionally/spiritually, we can mutually help each other in various ways, if we are open to the help. As a society we are both stupid and amazingly advanced under the same token. The next step is up to us.

Now, Gandalf, I don't mean to say you're post is wrong or evil; I see it as correct in an aloof manner and it emplores simplification of a greater problem, which is no one really can define a metaphysical expert today. It feels like you try to bash those who consider themselves as such. You should realize the law of rebellion, which youth seem to use as much as they can before they calm down. This law states that no one will accept a rule brought to them unless they agree with it or cannot overcome it. Do you agree?

[illusionofyourmind]

look at it this way people are comming to this forum in large numbers whether you like it or not give it awhile and the new people will start gaining more experience and have new experiences.  As that happens I'm sure that the post will increase in value of knowledge and with more people who actually know what they're doing the Gems will start comming to the surface more often.

[Ybom]

Well, some of the ways that the moderators here rule the forum, delete full sections of the board because they cannot keep up with it, move around posts, etc; how do we or they know that doing such is right? Hoping for the best I guess, but still. This is why I have recently refused liking the death penalty, I don't think forcing your opinion of their actions in such a harsh manner is right. I don't think capital punishment works...it just makes the person humiliated which would in turn to a possibly even more rash action.

Still, even so, this is just a forum and the masses flocking to it (apparently increasing in membership by about 300 a month?!) also does not mean that gems will rise to the top more often. In a scientific experiment of RANDOM variables, such as rolling a dice, you would get more of each number the more you rolled, but you also should realise that the people here aren't dice. Just letting them have access to being able to post at will does not mean that any of what they will post or say will be any more intelligent or gem-like than what you already find here.

To fool-proof this, we would have to restructure the information and alleys of expression to them so that the frequently asked new user questions we see now would already be handled without intervention of anybody. Instead we'd see insight into asking the proper questions that need answered, now "what is ki?", but moreso things like "what do robots actually think?" or maybe "given that american-indians would think of everything around me as alive, how would i go about getting more in touch with them?" Essentially what I am saying here is: How do you get people to this level of commitment, to know what not to ask since it's been asked a million times, without using the search function available (even the 0 post people)? I think finding this answer will cause this place to be much better (or more bland and much much less to read...bleh it's change dang it!)

[goku22]

Wow, my thread is still going strong, sweet! I kind of lost interest in the forum for a couple of months, but decided to check it out again tonight, I find that's a good way to find interesting information. Sit back, let everybody talk things over for a while, then come in a sift around for the stuff you enjoy. Even when I don't check this forum, it makes me so glad to know it exists, and happy to know it's increasing at such at a rate, because that mirrors a growing trend in society, even as that increase dilutes the content, somewhat annoying me. Ahh, the wonderfully balancing contradictory nature of life.  Ben

[Kazbadan]

I goku2! Maybe your correct in some aspects but not in others! You said that people are always posting things like "I get an obe!" and the like your, and thats boring (you say). You must remember that,even if being boring and repetitive with the refered topics, such people (me included) dont have any more place to breath freely. Astral pulse it the only place (at least one of the rare places)!

Lets suppose that i am able to AP (ohhh! it would be great!). With whom i would talk about that? "I family and friends, do you know that i am able to get out of my body? It is great!"....well, if said something like that to anyone that i know in my life, in the next moment i would be in a psychiastric hospital!

In second place imagine that people stopped to post some kind of topics like "anyone able to tk", etc. If join to that the fact that the good topics were discussed in deep, and that there is not almost anything to discuss, what would you discuss here?! Lets suppose that there were a good discussion about the topic X (any topic that you can imagine) at some few years ago. People that entered to the forum in later years certainly would like to discuss it! The will not pretend just read the old threads!

About the other kind of boring topics "any one able to ap?!", etc: there is always new people coming in and out, and new people always want to have an answer to their questions. But they could search some really basic (how much is "basic"?)questions in the "search" option. Maybe the solution for such basic questions it is to avoid answer to them...with time people maybe get used an will only post more advanced questions. But remember that newbies are just like students and "advanced" posters are like teachers. With patient they could help the "students" in their "basic" questions. Life is like a school. Experienced people should share their experiences with new people.

This is just an opinion but, besides all that i said, your correct in a general way: there are many bad topics or boting ones that could be avoided (i am not refering to the "basic" questions that always appears).

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by jilola
The forums have changed, that is true. They will change again for certain.

Well said Jouni.  

"The only constant thing in the Universe is Change" - me.

Love Always.[]

[goku22]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think this forum kinds of sucks sometimes? I find few topics with any real meat to them, most of the time they seem very silly and superficial. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't say that I've started some of those crappy threads, but regardless, I find myself less and less interested. Back when the forum first started in its old format, more of the topics were interesting. I guess it's partly because I was new to the whole metaphysical thing so everything was fresh, not just repetitions of topic after topic (Anybody know how to do telekinesis? Psi-balls[!]. I "almost" left my body! etc..). Also, the percentage of truly experienced people was higher, and they posted more often. There was Carl, Donni, RB, and lots of others whose names I can't even remember because they haven't posted for years. I do really appreciate the thoughts of some of the members, but because there are 100 times the amount of people and posts here, it's alot harder to find the diamonds in the rough. I know I'll probably get replies saying "Well just leave you ungratefull bastard!" and I'd follow that advice if there wasn't those few very interesting topics from time to time. They do make it worth it, but it doesn't mean I can't be dissapointed. Feel free to tell me any of your thoughts on the matter, I love a good discussion. Ben