I thought I'd put this here because I found it interesting and as it talks about altered states of consciousness (which is partly what we discuss here) you guys may be able to give some comments.
My opinion:
Basically the book Drawing on the Right side of the brain goes off the idea that drawing itself isn't hugely reliant on the technical technique used to draw, but what your mind's eye sees. Apparently you can suck at drawing technically but if you altered your state of consciousness to see in the same way as an expert artist, you could almost replicate their success with drawing. And this is what intrigues me because I've always felt alienated from the drawing community because of my inability to draw that well. I can copy extremely simple Anime pictures without a grid but that's about my limit, would be interesting to know that just by altering the state of my consciousness, I could draw without learning all the technical "Recipes". I'm on the autistic spectrum so I'm very methodological in everything I do, but it's painful having to remember almost everything about everything just to draw something, which is why I find it comforting knowing there's a core skill involved.
But yeah, what do you guys think?
I don't know but this is interesting. I suck at drawing. My stick figures end up looking like circles. Believe me when I say that I can't overstate my inability to draw anything. But I may look into this as I admire talented people who can.
Yeah, originally I did wonder about this, my initial thought was that maybe I could learn the "it's not all science" process behind what makes physical art manifest. One reason why I want to astral project, which I'm still a while off doing.
I have taught people to draw who say that they can't. It's actually very easy to teach people who think they can't, compared to those who think they can. :)
What I first tend to do is draw a simple line drawing that depicts something unfamiliar to them... like a faerie or a dragon or something that is imaginative.
I then ask them to copy it.
I can watch and notice the mistakes they make and how based upon those mistakes they carry on regardless... and end up making a bit of a frustrated mess of it.
The first mistake they are making is fear of making a mark incase they get it wrong. They will look at the drawing and recognise it instantly as a problematic figure of a cool thing that they simply wont be able to recreate.
The second mistake they make is generally the second mark they make on the page because self doubt has already defeated them. By the 4th, 5th and then 20th line they are deflated, angry or slightly 'meh' about it because 'once again... they have failed at drawing'. They will complete it and be correct in their assumption that it looks terrible. It's nothing like the thing I drew. I wouldn't expect it to be. They can't draw.
Actually... they can draw... like you said Jdeadevil... they actually can't 'look'.
So what I do is turn the picture upside down and tell them to do the drawing again.
What happens is they instantly lose there preconceived notions of what their idea of a dragon or faerie is... and are solely relying on their ability to look at the lines... like one would use a grid.
10 times out of 10... it's like a carbon copy of my line drawing.
Obviously... that's the first lesson.. but christ does it break the paradigm that they cant draw.
That's amazing, so their feeling of inferiority stems from what the thing they're actually drawing is?
Sort of... it is an inferiority created by lack of self belief. The inability to draw whatever object or picture stems from the fact they weren't encouraged enough as a child... and then because they aren't looking at the subject properly. I chose a dragon or fantasy thing because it takes them out of their comfort zone. If I have asked them to draw a cup or a flower.. guaranteed they won't draw the cup of flower in front of them... they will partly draw what they think a cup or flower looks like.
But it is all down to practice and self encouragement... and some tricks.
Basically if you want to learn how to do anything you just need to practice your noticing skills... this applies to almost everything... AP and drawing. Be patient and diligent. You don't get anything like that handed to you on a platter.
The psychological breakdown of me being a skilled artist is so easy to work out... it's textbook.
When I was little I was mummies boy. My dad was a bit of a working class no bullpoo kind of man but he was a good artist... my mother was very loving and caring and the sun shone out of my backside. One thing she loved was when I made something for her or drew something. As I grew I realised that I wanted to get better at what was already positively reinforced into my ego by my mother's affection.
If I upset my dad and he said 'BEN!! Study harder... stop being a time waster'... I could draw a picture... show my mum and I would instantly receive praise. That was my motivation. I found that if I got better I could show other people and I would also receive praise. In fact... I didn't need to be good at anything else.. because it was instant gratification. This gratification subsided to my own delight at seeing how people reacted to it. They seemed to smile and like it and want it. This is when it turned from a form of self gratification into something I could give and offer.
The reason why most people can't draw is because they weren't encouraged as a child. Simple.
The only reason you get good at drawing... or anything is the want and yearning to do it... for whatever reason.
Different drawing materials get in the way through in my experience, the whole thing behind pencil sizes. In school and early college all I did was use a sharpened pencil, now all I do is buy a set of different size pencils and giving up because it's too fussy..
Aaw... bugger pencil types and that crap.
When you make a mould do you use a poly-addition cure silicone rubber or a poly-condensation cure? and if the latter do you use a tin cure or platinum cure?
Give me a week with you and you would know which rubber you would prefer using for whatever type of thing you are moulding because you would be familiar with the process to make those decisions.
The same thing goes for different leads and weights of paper. You need to learn why you would need them to make a decision to use them which would then make them an essential bit of kit.
Quote from: Bedeekin on March 04, 2013, 22:59:06
The reason why most people can't draw is because they weren't encouraged as a child. Simple.
Why did you ruin a great post with Freudian stuff? :-P
It's not freudian... :lol:
It's the truth. Remove any freudian connotations and it's simple truth. If you aren't encouraged as a child.. in anything.. you will be defeatist in your attitude towards it.
Also... it isn't freudian it's actually more Bruce Liptonian.
It would have been Freudian if he had included mention of a father in his quote. Or sex. Or both.
Quote from: Bedeekin on March 04, 2013, 23:18:02
Aaw... bugger pencil types and that crap.
When you make a mould do you use a poly-addition cure silicone rubber or a poly-condensation cure? and if the latter do you use a tin cure or platinum cure?
Lol from the minute you said "Mould" I stopped understanding, let alone the post you made after the one I'm quoting right now. :D
No but seriously I'm way too n00bish to know about that
I knew you wouldn't understand it. :-)
I was making the point that worrying about specific specialist tools.. which includes pencil hardness.. will only hinder your learning.
I didn't know why I should use different hardness graphite. It wasn't until I wanted to get darker tones without clogging up the paper. I realised why a soft dark 4B works to darken areas other than trying to press the sharp tip of a 4H into the paper. But as you learn you realise these things and at a certain point you are automatically learning specifics to achieve results rather than being intimidated by specifics.
Yeah that makes sense
The part that I highlighted wasn't Freudian but the talk about mothers is. I understand how sensitive that kind of talk is to some because I too am a mommy's boy.
A major foundation of Freud's psychology stems from his belief that everything we do can be interpreted from our childhood relationships with our parents. This is true in many ways but Freud likes to attach sexual connotations to his ideology and that is repulsive.
I hope Beedeekin doesn't see it this way but I was disrespectful for injecting the Freud label on his post. For that, I apologize.
To get back on track, I tested Beedeekin's idea out and it worked. I tried drawing an elephant from a picture and it looked more like a tree with four trunks. I turned it upside down so the picture no longer represented my preconceived idea of what an elephant looks like and it was SO much better.
I then went further and covered most of the elephant up and only drew it's midsection. By doing this, I didn't even have to keep referring to the original picture.
That worked out so well that it gave me goosebumps.
Was this something you learned in an art class or did you realize this on your own? This is just another great example of how our preformed beliefs limit our abilities.
It does sound Freudian.. but in the same way that if I said 'evolution' or 'DNA' I sound Darwinian.
I self analysed myself because I would do some art and seek people to show... when they smiled I felt job done.. if they said how clever I was I retreat in a shameful embarrassment... I wound it back to how I used to present it and react with my mother. So it made sense.
I wasn't at all peeved you used Freud. It was more "damn... it's more than that" rather than "how dare he!!!" :lol:
I taught myself.
Getting back to the thread I think it is about looking and taking in the correct information. Like when you look at an object or anything for that matter... you will find that you 'glance' at it. Everyone does. That's why we have photographs and why we keep looking at our favourite bit of art... we 'glance'. The trick is to actually look. It's hard to describe. Lingering on a 'thing' and taking in every hue, value, texture and shape... is it translucent? if so how does that work with the light. Is it shiny... if so what is it reflecting.
I spent months drawing droplets of water to learn how to draw eyes. I actually used to pencil draw an eye on a bit of paper and then rub the paper with olive oil to make it waterproof... then drop a globule of water in the iris to create a cornea... turning it this way and that taught me how light refracts through water.
My dad bought me Gray's Anatomy when I was about 8.... I would draw all the pictures in the book.. recreate them. then as I got older I started reading it and finding out the relationships between the different parts of the body.
It's 98% absorbing information... 2% technical ability.
Guys, would you say learning to draw is like learning to cook? Remembering how it's made and all that.
Not really. I do liken cooking to another part of my job... making things using chemicals, plastics and resins.. with timing, temperature and ingredients.
With drawing it is more about observing and taking in information. Relaying it through your actions (doing the drawing) is more like learning any new skill. It is all about patience and observation. There is also a degree of confidence involved.