Astral: An Illusion!

WalkerInTheWoods · November 10, 2003, 05:23:47

The astral is a lot more than just a visual experience.

beavis · November 10, 2003, 08:32:27

Astral can be interpreted as sound or anything else you know. Your human experience and astral will find a way to communicate.

TheSeeker · November 10, 2003, 11:10:53

Actually, Robert Bruce developed the New Energy Ways system for a person that was blind since birth.

skymageinfinity · November 15, 2003, 23:13:58

So are we saying a blind person can visualy see in the astral or not?

Euphoric Sunrise · November 15, 2003, 23:38:05

A blind person can't see in the physical but the astral is not physical. A blind person would interpret the energy of the astral as whatever their mind allows them to percieve it as. If they have a particular picture of a tree on their mind on the physical, that image may come out on the astral. It would be an interesting and unique experience, i'm sure, but yes they could see.
I suppose if other people on the astral create some sort of environment and that environment is frequented and it's existence on the astral is strong enough (like API perhaps?) a blind person might then be able to see what a tree commonly looks like on the physical.
I'm no expert though, this is just what i think.

WalkerInTheWoods · November 16, 2003, 14:00:10

Do a search, as this has been discussed before. Or read Astral Dynamics as it is discussed in the book.

Robert Bruce says that people born with sight but later losing it can see on the astral. People blind since birth do not see on the astral for they do not know visual representations. In other words, vision is a learned skill. Those that go to the astral can sense things just as easily, if not more so, than one with vision they just do not see things visually.

skymageinfinity · November 17, 2003, 06:48:44

I am just curious and trying to imagine what the astral would be like for a blind person. I am not going to make conclusions or accept anyone elses ideas, unless they themselves are blind or have been blind.

We non-blind people might think we know the astral experience of a blind person, but I find that biased.

For physical vision to affect the experiences in the astral, makes me feel that the astral realm is somewhat more of a construction of our senses.

I know myself it is real, but I can not stop asking the question Is it really real?, because really, how do I know?

I would not learn anything new if I did not question the obvious or the already known.

WalkerInTheWoods · November 17, 2003, 07:31:58

quote:
Originally posted by skymageinfinity

I know myself it is real, but I can not stop asking the question Is it really real?, because really, how do I know?

What is real?

skymageinfinity · November 17, 2003, 08:45:16

I was trying to avoid that topic since its something we can go on forever about.

But since you brought it up, then I guess I could answer you. Actually, its very easy.

Even though there are different realities, when I say real, I mean everything you see, feel, touch, smell, hear... just the world we are physically living in at the moment.

Sure, dreams and that are real too, but that is a different real.

The real 'real' is this REAL

hehehe..... something like that

Im sure you understand... coz really, if you are unsure if this world is real or not, maybe you should pinch yourself a few times or go and see a shrink.

skymageinfinity · November 17, 2003, 08:59:58

Actually, ill attempt to answer that properly, since ive got a bit more time.

When I say I know the astral is real, its because when I am in there, I feel, see and live as if I was living. Just like anyone would say, yes the astral is real because I have experienced it and its intensity or something similar.

But were you asking me, the definition of real, or what I think is real?

My definition of real was my previous post, and what I meant when I said I know myself it is real, but I can not stop asking the question Is it really real?, because really, how do I know? I meant the astral.

Man, this is so confusing. Words are too inferior to describe situations like this. Language is a barrier that spoils the truth about things.

Whats wrong with discussing it again? Is there another thread somewhere similar to this I am unaware of? Or do you mean it is archived?

Either way with my definition of real, the reality of a blind person would be the same reality as a non-blind person since they are both living in the real world.

But then again...... my question... how do I know what is real.

Would I know what real was if I had none of my 5 senses!? If I couldnt smell, see, hear, feel and taste, would it still be possible to experience the astral assuming that you didnt need someone to teach you how?

And another question is, what does a blind person see? Nothing or Black? Its really hard for me to comprehend, I guess because I have been seeing my whole life. Trying to understand that, is like trying to picture infinity.

I really need sleep...

ThE_MaStEr_Of_PuPpEtS · November 17, 2003, 17:01:52

There mind is what makes them see what they cannot see.

skymageinfinity · November 17, 2003, 20:57:05

So you are saying its language that determines what their mind thinks?

Because say they wanted to see a box, they wouldnt know how it looks because they have never seen it before. But when language is used to describe it (a container with 4 sides joined together on their horizontal edges with the top 4 vertical edges joined to a lid and the bottom 4 joined to a base)even a peson that can see can visualise it.

How can a blind person use his mind to picture a flower if he has never seen a flower assuming he was not told about it with language. Unless ofcourse he can touch it and smell it instead then he can imagine what it looks like.

So using the 4 other senses one can use their mind to picture something we cant see. Id agree with you! But this just shows how our mind is conditioned to our 5 senses. The world we are in, in that case is really a construction of our senses. And as a consequence our astral experiences are also affected.

How many have ever lied on your back while in astral and seen through your eye lids? Like I think someone mentioned before, the astral is not physical and non-blind people dont use their physical eyes to see. If the astral and the physical are independant of each other, then I think its safe to say that both blind and non-blind people use the same 'astral eyes' to see.

Im just playing the devils advocate here. I actually do believe that blind people can see in the astral even though they have never seen in their whole life.

A friend of mine believes blind people can not even dream. Im trying to gather evidence to prove him wrong because Im sure he has not experienced the astral and infact can see.

beavis · November 17, 2003, 23:37:06

skymage if you are unsure if this world is real or not, maybe you should pinch yourself a few times or go and see a shrink.

Why should I take advice from a shrink who might not exist? Dont illusions usually tell you they're real?

Makaveli · November 18, 2003, 01:37:37

There have been cases where blind people were able to see in NDE's:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html

I think this is very suggestive of separation of the consciousness. If the astral was just a brain based dream then blind people probably wouldn't know what seeing would be like in order to create that experience. With the out of body interpretation they are able to see because they are using their non-physical eyes unrestricted from the physcial since they aren't conscious in the physical body which has the blind set of eyes.

skymageinfinity · November 10, 2003, 02:03:25

How can a blind person if born blind visualise/see anything in the astral since they have never seen or 'stored' images!

True or False?

If it is true, then it voids the whole astral realm as being 'real' since the only people that can experience it are those with physical eyesight.

News:

Astral: An Illusion!

beavis

beavis