Astral projection, is going inward, not outward, so.... ?

[rem92]

Hey guys, so I been in and out of the astral projection area/ topic, and today I was rereading Frank's resource.  In it, he says projecting or phasing isn't going out of your body, is going within it, within your mind, your own consciousness. Forgive I'm loosely quoting here, don't remember the exact words. But yeah he also says that, F2 is where dreams happen, and this one happens within your own, mind subconscious space. All good so far, okay so F3, is also happening withing you, you are not going outward, but inward, but in F3 somehow you can, interact with other beings foreign to you, yes?
But how is it that F3 is inward as well, but yet you get to perceive, sort of physical space that you move through (Frank says the astral is not a place that you leave your body and go to,) and interact with other beings themselves residing in F3.

If F3 happens within you, and F4 too I guess, then how is it, that you perceive other beings and the areas (or not areas? I don't know, Frank described his travels as that, travels, moving from point a to b, and coming across beings here and there, but he also says you are not moving to any area in the physical sense of the word.)

So if both happen within your own consciousness, then whats the different between F2 and F3, like, how would someone be able to tell, that they are having a dream or lucid dream, and having an astral projection experience, where they are receiving and perceiving something that is not being produced from one's own mind like in F2.

Like, I could have a dream, where I astral project, and I meet some being and tells me something, but maybe its just a lucid dream, how do you draw the line between one and the other? Or does every astral projection begins with you noticing 100% leaving your body? (Then again, Franks says you are not leaving anything, I'm trying to make sense of his model) 

So then why do many people describe Astral Projection and OBE as leaving your body, and going places, within the physical (F1)  as well as otherworldly places. Frank says when you project you are not going anywhere, so projecting to the real time zone F1, how does it work, how do you "travel" then, how do you move, does your consciousness travel in like a clairvoyance type of way?

I'm sorry if I'm making little sense, but I'm having trouble making sense out of, the fact that we project inwards as Frank says, and the fact that when you project you can "travel" to "places." 

If anybody has pondered on this questions before, and came to some sort of conclusion on the matter, would love to hear it  

Really trying to get back into studying this seriously. Thanks for reading.

[Volgerle]

Going "inward" is not to be interpreted 100% literal as going inside your body.Going inward maybe means going more to your spiritual essence which he called F4. It's what you also do when you go from F1 to F2 or F3. At least that is how I understand it.

Yes, F2 for Frank was private-only zone but he also wrote (iirc) that there might be overlaps with F3 which is the public zone where you meet 'other' consciousness/souls/beings. F2 as an only-private area is moreover controversial imv. Just consider dream telepathy or 'projectors' meeting dreamers - and lots of other mixed and differnt kind of experiences more.

Not everything he said must be entirely true or agreed upon. Bear in mind it was his own experiences and conclusions therefrom only, after all. I like his write-ups though because mostly the resonate with me well.

[rem92]

I like his write-ups though because mostly the resonate with me well.

Yeah, I really like his scientific approach to this topic and its exploration. That's why I'm so inclined to study his writings. and try to make sense of it.  Gotta keep reading.

[baro-san]

The physical is 3D (three dimensional). Projecting into non-physical implies focusing into another range of the consciousness, which is another, non 3D, dimension.

People use the term inward, related to projecting, just because outward is associated with the 3D space. However far outward you go, you're still in 3D.

Imagine living into a 2D world (x,y), and projecting in space (z). How would you describe it to your 2D people? Left, right? You don't have words like above, or below.

[Xanth]

Well, essentially, you're not really going anywhere... it's not a movement outward OR inward.
It's just a change in perspective.  It's like looking at a mountain in front of you, then just by changing your perspective, you turn around to look at a lake.
You haven't moved anywhere, you'd just changed the perspective from where you were looking.  Essentially, taking in a new view.

That's all astral projection is.  Changing your perspective.

[rem92]

Well, essentially, you're not really going anywhere... it's not a movement outward OR inward.
It's just a change in perspective.  It's like looking at a mountain in front of you, then just by changing your perspective, you turn around to look at a lake.
You haven't moved anywhere, you'd just changed the perspective from where you were looking.  Essentially, taking in a new view.

That's all astral projection is.  Changing your perspective.

So in this sense, we don't really go anywhere yeah? So then how does the actual travel happen? for example, If I'm looking at the mountain (F1) I can physically move, to the mountain, and explore the mountain, and maybe there is a cave, maybe I run into a bear. Ok so, If I change my perspective, my focus to the lake (F3) How do I explore the lake? How do I go in it, or go across it, to see whats at the other end, if I'm not able to go anywhere per say, or.... wait.. something suddenly hit me..  

So is it in a sense, like virtual reality? Like, in the physical, we use for example, a virtual reality game, like using the Oculus, or whatever, you are not physically moving... but you can see, through the machine on your head, many environments, and characters, and interact with them and go places. This is something that you perceive you are doing in through the VR machine, but your actual body is on the same spot, your focus is so into this world you are seeing through the vr machine, that people's physical body loose sense of which is which, and depending on the situation, they physically fall to the ground.
Then as soon as you take it off, your focus is back to 'reality.'

Does that sound like what astral "movement/exploration"  is like?

[Xanth]

So in this sense, we don't really go anywhere yeah? So then how does the actual travel happen? for example, If I'm looking at the mountain (F1) I can physically move, to the mountain, and explore the mountain, and maybe there is a cave, maybe I run into a bear. Ok so, If I change my perspective, my focus to the lake (F3) How do I explore the lake? How do I go in it, or go across it, to see whats at the other end, if I'm not able to go anywhere per say, or.... wait.. something suddenly hit me..  

So is it in a sense, like virtual reality? Like, in the physical, we use for example, a virtual reality game, like using the Oculus, or whatever, you are not physically moving... but you can see, through the machine on your head, many environments, and characters, and interact with them and go places. This is something that you perceive you are doing in through the VR machine, but your actual body is on the same spot, your focus is so into this world you are seeing through the vr machine, that people's physical body loose sense of which is which, and depending on the situation, they physically fall to the ground.
Then as soon as you take it off, your focus is back to 'reality.'

Does that sound like what astral "movement/exploration"  is like?

In a nutshell, yes.
"Movement" is as much an illusion as this reality is. 

[Lumaza]

In a nutshell, yes.
"Movement" is as much an illusion as this reality is.  

This is a excellent post Xanth and ever so true!  

When I talk about "change your mindset, changes your reality", this is exactly what I am talking about. I get in modes where I allow the imagery to come to me, like I am perfectly stationary and the images are passing me by. This leads to some extraordinary experiences.  

All the answers you guys have given here are "top notch"! 

[Phildan1]

Well that is why there are these categories, because the approach is different. For me, being asleep physically, it is the best to be conscious elsewhere (after programming my mind) but it needs to start with a scene many times and elevate my awareness... like blackout unknowingly and scenes. My other method is rare (lol I got one this morning recently), you phase back to your focus and if you can keep the latest scenery in mind, you are instantly back. I'm still amazed how the whole system is illusionary.
This flying and walking and jumping, traveling is pretty just perception and everything exists at the same "place" where your mind is. I can reinforce this.
I guess beliefs are making it brutally hard to not believe that you can "travel" into another system with practicing. I have still this block if I try to practice it consciously. Maybe the biggest block is that we don't concentrate at the actual destination many times like me, I just forget to select a target lol.

[Blossom]

So then why do many people describe Astral Projection and OBE as leaving your body, and going places, within the physical (F1)  as well as otherworldly places. Frank says when you project you are not going anywhere, so projecting to the real time zone F1, how does it work, how do you "travel" then, how do you move, does your consciousness travel in like a clairvoyance type of way?

I do not agree with Frank on this.

I'm not sure exactly how to explain it from my perspective.  People describe it as leaving your body because your reality has shifted.  It feels like you are two people.  One is free and one is stuck in the 3D reality.  Your astral body and your physical body.  They are not the same thing.  Your physical is laying in bed or where-ever, but your astral body is free of the physical.  When this occurs in real time, you KNOW you are out of your body. Your're not being clairvoyant,  It has nothing to do with clairvoyance. It is real.  It is not imagined or some mental happening game...

Your entire conscienceness is with you.  It's as real as you sitting and typing a response to this.  You are aware.  You can think and do and move.  You KNOW you are not dreaming.  You are merely somewhere else and by a mere glimmer of thought, you can change your location to anywhere else you desire.  BUT you also know you are in your bed.  When it truely happens to you, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind what is going on. But your mind will be with your astral self.  Not in your physical body. You are not thinking with the physical.  Your consciousness goes with you.

That's why people call it leaving your body.  Because that's exactly what it feels like.  You know your body is laying there but you also know that you are not in it.  It's real.  Your astral body is real.  You get there by meditation and staying alert while your body goes to sleep.  When it all comes together in just the right way, it happens in the blink of an eye, and you will go "Wow, this is real".

It's truely an amazing thing. But you will not doubt it when it occurs.  You will know. And yeah, you do leave your body.  Your astral self leaves your physical body.

[desert-rat]

As we all go out of body during deep sleep and some people while in there astral bodies are mistaken for ghosts I would say a.p. is not just going inward . It is the astral body leaving the phy. body .