The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: clandestino on July 15, 2003, 07:10:37

Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: clandestino on July 15, 2003, 07:10:37
p.s. :

quote:
I'm merely implying that the traffic that goes through the site sometimes shows these symptoms!


That's not meant as a dig at the site administrators, who do a great job, keep it up !
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: kromeknight on July 15, 2003, 07:40:09
Arrgh I have been exposed  Shhh
my subjects who silently await my hidden commands take no notice of the above lies for they will know what you already know when it is time to be known
Know what I mean.. behold Krome has spoken  he who really knows what is knowable
Now type my subjects tap that key board like you have never tap it before show the unbelieving the power I have given you HA HAA HA
oh bugger I don't know anything... BUT that don't matter HA HAA Ha
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: Rob on July 15, 2003, 13:31:53
Wouldnt Christianity, through the ages and in places today, fit most/all of that???

Anyway, what the hell do you think you are doing posting dissent like that in the first place???!!! Dont you know its not allowed????????? You'd better watch it now!!!!!!!!

[;)][:D]
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: no_leaf_clover on July 15, 2003, 13:55:25
actually, the church of jesus christ is considered a cult last i heard. i don't understand how the other sects of christianity seem to slip through those definitions.
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: James S on July 15, 2003, 16:49:20
"i don't understand how the other sects of christianity seem to slip through those definitions."

Rhetoric and good legal representation.
In much the same way Amway managed to redefine pyramid selling so that a) they were no longer classified as pyramid selling, and b) they managed to help make pyramid selling illegal.

James.
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: kromeknight on July 15, 2003, 20:28:23
Hello  Mirador
LOL you are so touchy sometimes I'm sure Clandestino could see my humour was not directed at him personly as in an attack on his post. In hinsight   I should have added a greeting at the bottom
But I really don't see were you think Clandestino could offend anyone in his post to react the way you have.
Interesting reply Mirador one for the analyst [;)]
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: kromeknight on July 15, 2003, 20:32:20
Hello Clandestino [:D]
Great post as it provokes much thought [;)]
And please forgive the rantings of ulta ego I don't know what came over me lol [:D]
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: kromeknight on July 15, 2003, 20:40:41
LOL now I really look insane [:D]
You Moderators have a great sence of humour lol I will just talk amongest myself [;)] until you delete my hmmm off posts?
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: clandestino on July 16, 2003, 03:44:41
Hi there Kromeknight ! of course I wasn't offended by your post, I was laughing with you when I read it !

Haven't looked at the forum since yesterday when I posted the topic... Have some posts been deleted? I've missed them, were they good / entertaining ?!!

That's twice I've heard "Amway" mentioned in 2 days (once was on the radio). What exactly do they do anyway ?
Mark

Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: clandestino on July 16, 2003, 05:56:17
hi inguma !

just re-read the post with your comment on Christianity in mind...good point !!

cheers
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: James S on July 16, 2003, 05:57:30
Clandestino,

You mean you've never had anyone try to get you to sell Amway?????[:O]

It wouldn't even surprise me if some entity comes up to you while your in the astral and says to you "I have a business opportunity you might be interested in. How would you like to make some extra money?"

Amway sells what they call The Best Cleaning & General Household Products Money can Buy. Everyone else calls it "that bloody awfull cleaning stuff that gives me a rash!".

What they do is rope people in to not buying their products, but selling them, or more to the point, selling the idea of you getting other people to sell it for you, etcetera, etsetera, etcetera.

At some time in your life you will have a friend, more to the point a soon to be EX-friend call you up and tell you they have a business opportunity for you. If your foolish enough to get hooked by this they will then give you the whole spiel about how you can retire when your 40 and earn a huge income from doing nothing more than having lots of people sell Amway under you. (I think you can tell by now I once got suckered into one such presentation).

Well, that's my rant for the day. I thought at first this was off topic, but then Amway is a dangerous cult.[xx(] Be afraid! Be VERY afraid!!![}:)][}:)][}:)]
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: clandestino on July 16, 2003, 07:23:04
cheers James...

that reminds of something that happened recently on the Isle of Wight (of the southern England mainland). The women on the island were all drawn into a pyramid scheme, where they were told that If they paid £3,000 to thet person at the top of a list, then posted their name at the bottom, they would become millionaires within weeks !

There was a run on the cash machines on the island, which were soon emptied...it was only a matter of time before a lot of people became very poor.
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: James S on July 16, 2003, 16:18:12
LOL, Clandestino :)

People that stupid deserve to be parted from their money. God help them if they ever get on the internet.

James.

Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: Anonymous on July 16, 2003, 20:46:49
Wait a minute... I isolate myself from people all the time. I've also become subservient to myself and given myself all my money. Does that make ME a cult in and of myself? Hmm... brains... brains... brains...

I am SO glad I am no longer part of any church. I'm a free man, and anyone who tries to take my freedom is getting an atomic wedgie or fifty, and possibly crucified. (:P)
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: kromeknight on July 17, 2003, 01:23:35
Hello Clandestino
Just a quick note Yes Mirador did post a reply after my first one I think mostly in responce to me lol he's a funny Guy sometimes [;)]
Now the moderators have left me hanging  oh well [:D]
take care
Title: Characteristics of a destructive Cult
Post by: clandestino on July 15, 2003, 07:04:27
Hullo folks. Just thought you might be interested ! Copied from the American Family Foundation. I've taken the liberty to highlight a few sections myself...because I noticed them cropping up in some posts !!

I'm not saying astral pulse is a "cult"....I'm merely implying that the traffic that goes through the site sometimes shows these symptoms!

best wishes
Mark



What is a Cult?

A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community. (West & Langone, 1986)

Characteristics of a Destructive Cult

Authoritarian pyramid structure with authority at the top
Charismatic or messianic leader(s) (Messianic meaning they either say they are God OR that they alone can interpret the scriptures the way God intended.....the leaders are self-appointed.

Deception in recruitment and/or fund raising

Isolation from society -- not necessarily physical isolation like on some compound in Waco, but this can be psychological isolation -- the rest of the world is not saved, not Christian, not transformed (whatever) -- the only valid source of feedback and information is the group

Use of mind control techniques (we use Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's criteria from chapter 22 of his book Thought Reform & the Psychology of Totalism to compare whether the eight psychological and social methods he lists are present in the group at question)

Mileu Control: Control of the environment and communication within the environment  

Mystical Manipulation: Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment)

Demand for Purity: The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) one must continually change or conform to the group "norm"; tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences  

Confession: Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change  

Sacred Science: The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited a reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology  

Loading the Language: Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase  

Doctrine Over Person: If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly the underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth" the experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt one is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil when doubt arises, conflicts become intense  

Dispensing of Existence: Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist; impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed one outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group; fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their salvation/transformation, or something bad will happen to them; the group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc.