Chicken or the Egg

[Nameless]

Wow, I've read a few older posts tonight and even considered posting on them but changed my mind and thought I'd go fresh.

I'm honestly a little baffled by some of the thoughts I come across, not just here but other places as well. Since when did we decide the world is fake? I keep reading statements like - It's all subjective or we create our own reality or there are no negs, it's all in your thoughts.

Say again? I'm not blowing off what others say I'm just can't seem to quite get on the same page.

My first very strange experience did not happen because I thought about it or had any preconceived ideas. I was 3 years old and innocent as a babe in the woods. Whatever that was it came from somewhere but not me.

My first nightmare did not arrive because I was afraid. If anything I still didn't even know that kind of fear. It was the event itself that taught me to fear what I later learned to term nightmares. Those mares did not exist in my inner world.

So much has happened and out of all of it absolutely nothing has brought me to the conclusion that this world/reality or whatever you want to call it is a matrix or just a created 'belief system'. Note I am not saying our beliefs do not color our experiences for certainly they do. I am saying that regardless of where I came from, of what pieces of me might be floating endlessly through time and space THIS me is here now and I did not create this although I may have agreed to help fill in some of the pages in the universal coloring book.

So which came first
The nightmare or the fear
The bliss or the orgasm
The chicken or the egg

[Volgerle]

Since when did we decide the world is fake? I keep reading statements like - It's all subjective or we create our own reality

I'm one of those who does not say that. I say the opposite actually. Instead of 'all is illusion' I say 'all is REAL'. After all we talk about 'realities' (for planes, dimensions, realms, etc.) all the time too, right? It's in the word. It's all real.

It's why I have a problem with people claiming dreams are not real. Or thoughts are not real. or even so-called 'hallucinations'. What are they anyway, even if they are our own thought/mind creations? On some ('astral'?) level they are REAL, too. At least for me.

[Lucidityman]

Hi

I think humans when they experience something that they do not understand, they call it as fake. It's their way of finding comfort or a meaning to something they don't understand. If you don't understand something, then it must not be real. I don't judge these people's believe..to each their own.

I personally think that you can't use the word "Real" and compare it to what we experience in the afterlife. You are trying to put a word on something that we know as "real" from the pshyical world to the non physical.


I think the chicken was a animale that grew and developed over time. Then eventually it turned into a chicken that produced a egg..LOL


Nightmares and fear.. I think are related. I would say fear and nightmares are inter twined. If you have a nightmare..it can trigger fear. If you goto bed and have fear..it can trigger a nightmare.


Bliss or Orgasm... Hmmm... It's the same thing. All Your questions of who came first..are questions that you can flip around. Your questions are part of life that everyone thinks yet we have no answer to it. That is what makes life wonderfull.. Not knowing the answers to life's questions makes you live life.


When I goto the Ehreal I never thought about questioning if it was real or not. It did not matter to me. What I experience to me is my experience and if I think it is real or not..does not matter. I have been out in the Ethreal and seen things, the Astral and if it is just a illusion created from my mind that I am projected into.. Hey..I am not complaining..It's wonderfull.

[baro-san]

Wow, I've read a few older posts tonight and even considered posting on them but changed my mind and thought I'd go fresh.

I'm honestly a little baffled by some of the thoughts I come across, not just here but other places as well. Since when did we decide the world is fake? I keep reading statements like - It's all subjective or we create our own reality or there are no negs, it's all in your thoughts.

Say again? I'm not blowing off what others say I'm just can't seem to quite get on the same page.

My first very strange experience did not happen because I thought about it or had any preconceived ideas. I was 3 years old and innocent as a babe in the woods. Whatever that was it came from somewhere but not me.

My first nightmare did not arrive because I was afraid. If anything I still didn't even know that kind of fear. It was the event itself that taught me to fear what I later learned to term nightmares. Those mares did not exist in my inner world.

So much has happened and out of all of it absolutely nothing has brought me to the conclusion that this world/reality or whatever you want to call it is a matrix or just a created 'belief system'. Note I am not saying our beliefs do not color our experiences for certainly they do. I am saying that regardless of where I came from, of what pieces of me might be floating endlessly through time and space THIS me is here now and I did not create this although I may have agreed to help fill in some of the pages in the universal coloring book.

So which came first
The nightmare or the fear
The bliss or the orgasm
The chicken or the egg

You can't be serious ...

When you have a dream, do you know you're dreaming? (obviously, excepting the "lucid dreams")

You know that our perceptions may be wrong.

By the way:
These came first
- The nightmare or the fear
- The bliss or the orgasm
- The chicken or the egg

[baro-san]

Hi

I think humans when they experience something that they do not understand, they call it as fake. It's their way of finding comfort or a meaning to something they don't understand. If you don't understand something, then it must not be real. I don't judge these people's believe..to each their own.

I personally think that you can't use the word "Real" and compare it to what we experience in the afterlife. You are trying to put a word on something that we know as "real" from the pshyical world to the non physical.


I think the chicken was a animale that grew and developed over time. Then eventually it turned into a chicken that produced a egg..LOL


Nightmares and fear.. I think are related. I would say fear and nightmares are inter twined. If you have a nightmare..it can trigger fear. If you goto bed and have fear..it can trigger a nightmare.


Bliss or Orgasm... Hmmm... It's the same thing. All Your questions of who came first..are questions that you can flip around. Your questions are part of life that everyone thinks yet we have no answer to it. That is what makes life wonderfull.. Not knowing the answers to life's questions makes you live life.


When I goto the Ehreal I never thought about questioning if it was real or not. It did not matter to me. What I experience to me is my experience and if I think it is real or not..does not matter. I have been out in the Ethreal and seen things, the Astral and if it is just a illusion created from my mind that I am projected into.. Hey..I am not complaining..It's wonderfull.

The egg was first because the higher level spark happens in the egg, not in the chicken.

The fear was first because the thought is the spark that creates the thought form.

Bliss is a condition of the mind, it actually has no relation to orgasm. What one experiences in that case isn't bliss, but a feeling caused by the act.

[Nameless]

Thank you all I really enjoyed reading how each of you think on this topic.

Volgerle - thanks for that. I can easily distinguish between hallucinations, dreams, ap and LD but that in no way for me makes these experiences not real or only stemming from within my own head. Although I am sure it's my own head that makes the distinction and adds the interpretation. Hugs

Lucidityman - thank you as well. I get the feeling some people actually think we may be lying in a tub somewhere wired up to a matrix. But even if that were true then the reality would still be that people are lying in tubs somewhere wired up to a matrix and that would not be an illusion. I also take the world (inner and outer) as very real and valid, otherwise why am I here. Hugs

Baro-san - Hm, I always know when I am in an alternate reality. For me it is just that, an alternate but still as real. Interesting I have no desire to bat around the chicken/egg or the bliss/orgasm (you may be right). But the fear I question. I totally appreciate your input. Hugs to you as well.

Looking forward to anything anyone else wants to add here. Thank you

[MarsZM]

Nameless you sound just like me! I stay away from new age stuff... I don't agree with any of that either. (Because my experiences).. Something that bothers me is if I'm attacked and they tell me I'm attacking myself because that other being is me... and it's all fear. It's actually rubbish in my opinion. One saying I heard that makes sense to me though is... reality is a dream... and dreams are freakin REAL!!

[Nameless]

LOL, yes, I agree, dreams are freakin real!!!

[Xanth]

Anything you can experience is real.

[Plume]

Might as well complicate the question when we are at it

Ever wonder what it would be like to describe or imagine nothing , like before something... real or not ...  and why not say that there is nothing before something ... really , I can even contemplate that idea that nothing is even a possibility or, before there was something whatever you want to call it, what... nothing...? its all words but it does trigger a weird empty feeling within and at time I actually felt like I understand that in a deep way but only for a split of a split moment and poof... lost again that feeling of knowing , still I can't imagine something and at the same time think that it is not possible... seriously , I am a genius in the making Yes, with some limitation obviously.
I better go to bed...see you