I have just started astral projection and I am able to travel in the real time zone at will (maybe its more like remote viewing) and things have been going pretty smoothly, I never go real far, just to another room or a house across the block. It seems alright so far but today my mom's friend came over (I'm 13) and he has been projecting, using tk and pk and been able to communicate to the dead (evil or not) for years. And he says he hates it. He said that it's all fun at first but once you encounter those shadow people/ negs./ demons he said they never go away. They might not bother you as much but they never go away. They will always be feeding of your neg energy, feeding of all your energy. He calls it being spiritually raped, says that they try and enter his body. He has stories where his skills almost killed him to saved people's lives. The thing that disturbes me the most is that he hates it, says if he could do it all over again he wouldn't, and that neg. entities are definitely not part of your mind, and playing music and being happy wont make them go away.
It makes me wonder if this is worth doing. If possibly those who try and "teach" astral projection could be conned in to it by evil spirits possibly the spirits could let these people teach just so more people could enter their territory. Basically it seems that once you open yourself up to projection that youll definitely encounter some kind of evil that you will never forget.
And for those of you who encounter shadow people (demons) my feeling is your screwed, I don't think there is anyway to repel them except by calling upon some greater, Devinne power and even then they will still be watching?
(this is actually my 4th post but forgot my pas for pepto_bismol) anyway I would really like to know if anybody has encountered these demons and got rid of them because from what I've heard they never go away
IMO this guy is trying to freak you out. Ignore him. If you ever actually have any problems, this forums will always be here. But I strongly suspect you never will. You're fine, just go your merry way and carry on APing!
and check your PM's I've given you a new password on your old account....
Rob
Many times we think that which we do not understand is something to be feared and evil.
ap is like real life, when you go to foreign country you can met benelovent and not so benelovent people
alright if u guys say so, I just thought he was pretty credible because right when I saw him he noticed that i've been able to do this, and a lot of people call him for sort of a ghost buster. But if you guys have done it and never encountered negs. then I'm sure it should be no big deal
I don't doubt that your friend is aware of things. But your perception means a lot when dealing in such matters. His just does not seem to be objective. If you go looking for "negs" I guarantee you that you will find something negative, but that does not mean that it truly is.
when he started doing it in high school he told me he wasn't looking for negs., wasn't even aware they existed. He hints at the possibility that they trick you in to going somewhere, possibly some form of possession. And for him he said that even though they usually can't physically harm you they can make life around you turmoil
I think my overall conclusion is that I'll keep on projecting, but if I get scared I'm coming right back to the real world :P
EDIT: and im prolly gunna look in to some psi self defense just in case...
Well sorry to qualify what I said, I've had enough experience with negs to know they aint nice. But allowing them to scare you from AP is, basically, giving in to them. And I strongly suspect they will not decide to slam you as a major target. Your friend is more of an exception, I believe, than the rule. IF you have troubles, then thats when you take action, otherwise dont fret! If you are really concerned, sleep and project over running water, I know it helps with dark entity problems, I got a mate just starting it at the moment, and his night attacks are now not an issue. He wakes up, gives them the finger, then goes back to sleep. Thats life.
Rob
Sometimes I wonder if these negs aren't a manifestation of a physical or personal thing. A lot of astral traveling can be very subjective, traveling into yourself rather than out. I believe there's a good chance that negs people like your friend encounter are actually a part of themselves.
There's something John Michael Greer said that I see as being very true: today's psychology is yesterday's mysticism/occult. They're very similar, they just use different terminology.
Funny you use the word 'shadow people', the last time i had a real time projection I seen a shadowy figure run down the street very fast. He stopped looked at me and then the projection ended. I guess that would be the only encounter i have had with what might be a neg.
I have heard from Cacodemon that you can kill Negs by punching them in the heart chakra, maybe try that?
I personally think that if you show negs fear they come running. If they think your weak and you cringe and tinkle yourself when you see one they will tell all there friends about you and have a good laugh. When I first started projecting I had some nasty encounters with negs and I would wake up shaking and screaming for God to help me even though im not religious.
After a while I became less and less afraid, and then I found this forum. It opened my eyes to new ways of seeing negs and to the concept of them being a part of me. Since then I have only encountered one neg during AP and he was just demented not evil. I used to have night time attacks and feel things crawling on me all the time, I used to go to bed and draw holy symbols all over me and lay there watching the shadows. Now I look at the negs and just treat them like another person. Every time I have done this they either look confused and go away or there anger leaves and they shrug and start talking to me. Its like they have no one to relate to and they just go around scaring the pants off of people who are mentally open and easily frightened.
If all else fails while AP'ing, just wake up. I have felt scared a few times and ended my AP early just because its not worth submitting your mind to the stresses of a neg attack if you can help it. I am still waiting to whoop the crap out of a neg but I havent had the opportunity. Best of luck.
Quote from: mactombsSometimes I wonder if these negs aren't a manifestation of a physical or personal thing. A lot of astral traveling can be very subjective, traveling into yourself rather than out. I believe there's a good chance that negs people like your friend encounter are actually a part of themselves.
There's something John Michael Greer said that I see as being very true: today's psychology is yesterday's mysticism/occult. They're very similar, they just use different terminology.
I doubt that, sure in a dream the monsters can be part of yourself, especcialy if you go lucid and become the monsters :twisted:
Let me give you an example of one experience he told me about.
When he went on vacation with his family he sensed something and he said
"Ok you've been here longer than me, you can come and go as you please, just leave me and my family alone" he got no reply
then he said "what is your name"
the spirit said Micheal
He left it at that. Later that day he asked a neighbor about the history of that house and the neighbor said it is supposed to be haunted and that three trees planted out back represent 3 sons, one of which died in a war (WWII I think) and guess what the dead sons name was. Micheal :O Ray warned him to be carefull and that people have died in that house before. Anyway that night his dog died (hit by car)
then on the second day his Mom died ( heart atack), and on the third day his neighbor, the one who told him of the story died(accident?). (this really screwed with his brain)
I don't think those deaths were coincidence, as I doubt the spirit he talked to was just part of himself
I'm sort of wondering that if you truly believe there is no such thing as negs? That it is all in your mind?
lol just so much to think about and so little time to live
When bad things happen you it's easy to blame it on something you can understand. I think your friend is immersed in his own psychosis, and he's built it up year after year. He lives in terror of his own shadow.
If something good happened, I'm certain he would have attributed it to the angel Michael.
Maybe not "negs" per-say are just a figment of your imagination in every case, but you stereotyping them this way and interpreting them this way is always the case. Dividing the wider reality into upper and lower is short-sighted, if you ask me. Further, limiting yourself to victim roles when encountering scary stuff is probably unwise. Facing your fears might be a better approach. You'd be surprised how effective curiosity has changed scary situations and creatures into something completely different for me in the past ...
Hello Pepy and all!
I think your friend does have problem. Keep in mind that the only reason negs bother him so is because they know they can.
I have been dealt this card of ap and obe as a child. I hated it at first, but had no choice in whether or not they would stop. They just happen to me spontaneously. Over the years I have seen many negs/demons. I very rarely see them any more because they do not scare me nor do they bother me. I know in my soul that I am more powerful than they are. That is the key. Knowing that they can not harm nor hurt you. At that point they will waist no more time bothering you. There is nothing to fear but fear itself!
Oh yea Negs-
They simply don't exist, except in your own mind. PERIOD!!!! They are a manifestation of your own imagination in Focus 2. If you don't know what focus 2 is then you should do some reading in the permanent astral topics on Phasing.
I used to do chants, symbols, etc, until I read Frank's Posts. Now that I know that my Subconscious mind creates them, and now I RARELY run into "them". When I do I am not really afraid. Although, there is a certain amount of the "Alice in Wonderland Effect", so they can still throw me a little.
Realize that you are projecting inward and not outward, and that you create your own negs, they don't come "running"
Han Solo
Just imagine them on fire and it will usually take care of it. Before I saw them for what they are I also went a little insane for a week or so, practically about to carve holy symbols all over me. A lot of people get that for a while. Most get over it but some people, like your friend here, never do.
Quote from: Hans SoloOh yea Negs-
They simply don't exist, except in your own mind. PERIOD!!!! They are a manifestation of your own imagination in Focus 2. If you don't know what focus 2 is then you should do some reading in the permanent astral topics on Phasing.
So what about people who have mentioned poltergeist activity and other contact with spirits in the physical? Is that in their mind too?
From KinghtLight:
Quote
I personally think that if you show negs fear they come running.
This is why people perceive "negs" in the first place.
What you think is there will be there because you think they are there.
Perception of the astral point of view is hazy at best for most of us, myself included a lot of the time. The fact that the pefceived circumstrances are strange and unfamiliar to begin with and the fact that anything out of the ordinary in waking life gets us on our toes will almost certainly lead us to interpret anything not immediately familiar as a threat.
Combine the above with the learned association of dark or shadowy and evil and bad and dangerous and you'll have a recpe for instant "neg" activity.
You are everything and what you perceive is just an aspect of you.
Oh and hello to those who remember me and those who don't.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
QuoteSo what about people who have mentioned poltergeist activity and other contact with spirits in the physical? Is that in their mind too?
Most ALL poltergeist activity involves a young girl going through puberty or emotional turmoil in the household. Many believe this emotional energy causes this effect. Poltergeist activity is not like it is portrayed in the movies. AKA chainsaw chasing after you.
Han solo
Quote from: Hans SoloQuoteSo what about people who have mentioned poltergeist activity and other contact with spirits in the physical? Is that in their mind too?
Most ALL poltergeist activity involves a young girl going through puberty or emotional turmoil in the household. Many believe this emotional energy causes this effect. Poltergeist activity is not like it is portrayed in the movies. AKA chainsaw chasing after you.
Han solo
if I were to die, who says that the dead are not constantly projecting? and if I was evil then I guess I would be a neg? Maybe their is no devil either?
Hell if there are no negs (evil spirits) then the chances of there being good spirits is next to impossible.
summoning, poltergeist, and ghosts in your mind?
ok then... :roll:
Quote from: Hans Solo
Most ALL poltergeist activity involves a young girl going through puberty or emotional turmoil in the household. Many believe this emotional energy causes this effect. Poltergeist activity is not like it is portrayed in the movies. AKA chainsaw chasing after you.
Han solo
You said almost all - what about such things that are not caused by young girls going through puberty? What about ouijia board contact and other such things as "spiritual contact" (and no I wasn't referring to such things as chainsaws chasing after you, I know its not how the movies portray it to be).
If mediums and the like can make contact with people who have passed over or positive spiritual beings, can they not with negative beings?
QuoteYou said almost all - what about such things that are not caused by young girls going through puberty? What about ouijia board contact and other such things as "spiritual contact" (and no I wasn't referring to such things as chainsaws chasing after you, I know its not how the movies portray it to be).
If mediums and the like can make contact with people who have passed over or positive spiritual beings, can they not with negative beings?
This is different all together. I believe in SOME mediums because I feel they are communicating with entities in Focus 3 (or the afterlife). There are (i have not verified this) various heavens and Hells in focus 3, and some projectors have the ability to communicate with entities in Focus 3. However, I believe this is different than evil Gnomes chasing you, and chilling with the deity of your choice that often happens with focus 2 experiences.
This is WHY I like Franks model so much, because it distinguishes the focus levels and describes the attributes of each. Without this separation ALL experiences are incorrectly given the same validation. If I sound like a Frank follower it is BECAUSE of this separation which is taken into account in his model, which allows more rational deconstruction of the individuals experiences. Without this deconstruction I don't feel we progress as fast with understanding the wider reality.
My 2 cents,
Han solo
Hans - ahhh I get ya now!
I thought you were merely dismissing all negative spiritual entities as "in ones head" :)
Quote from: pepto_bismolQuote from: Hans SoloQuoteSo what about people who have mentioned poltergeist activity and other contact with spirits in the physical? Is that in their mind too?
Most ALL poltergeist activity involves a young girl going through puberty or emotional turmoil in the household. Many believe this emotional energy causes this effect. Poltergeist activity is not like it is portrayed in the movies. AKA chainsaw chasing after you.
Han solo
if I were to die, who says that the dead are not constantly projecting? and if I was evil then I guess I would be a neg? Maybe their is no devil either?
Hell if there are no negs (evil spirits) then the chances of there being good spirits is next to impossible.
summoning, poltergeist, and ghosts in your mind?
ok then... :roll:
The door of my room always opens and closes by itself in the summer time. I always wonder what it could be. Everytime the door opens I can feel cold air softly blow in the spot where the door opens. Thats weird because it can get very warm in my house especially in the summer.
By the way I am not a girl going through puberty. :)
I don't subscribe to the idea of most poltegeist being the result of mental activities of someone going through puberty. There have been too many accounts of poltegeist activity in houses with either no children or very young children for that to be true.
Besides the idea of poltegeists being "evil" or negs is purely in the minds of horror / suspense writers.
Poltergeist simply, and literally, translates as "noisy ghost". They're nothing more than confused or frustrated spirits still stuck in this plane for whatever reason, trying to get someone's attention. If you can help meet their needs, pass on the message they've stayed back to give, or help them to cross over, they become perfectly peaceful.
People who don't understand how to communicate on a friendly level with spirits, or try to use them, are generally the type who treat other people in the same way.
Blessings,
James.
i love how these people with these weird beliefs are so hostile of frank and people who follow his model.
give me a break, wake up people.
Which weird people are being hostile?
I like frank's model ,but several people who follow it do come on really strong. That could be interpreted by "weird people" as hostile so they return with a strong assertion of their beliefs...which can also be seen as hostile.
You know who you are.
QuoteI like frank's model ,but several people who follow it do come on really strong. That could be interpreted by "weird people" as hostile so they return with a strong assertion of their beliefs...which can also be seen as hostile.
It has been the other way around. People have been hostile to Frank's model because It invades on their religious beliefs and classical assertions. They love the thought that their communications with Buddha are real, that there are 7 planes and 7 bodies, and the astral is real because it is mystically SEXY. It is not as sexy to say that Focus 2 is really your subconscious mind and all those "negs" you have been relentlessly slaughtering are your own thought forms.
The people who like this model have to come across somewhat strong because the old dogma is toted SO MUCH here that it is taken as Gospel. Also, I think the people that latch on to this Model see all the ENORMOUSLY helpful changes that it can make in society. Think about all the wonderful things that could happen when people realize they can change their Phobias, and help shape their reality in focus 2 (and I am not talking about spells or witchcraft). I am not thinking about this as some "ASTRAL" fantasy land, but instead as a useful tool for self empowerment (like hypnosis on steriods).
For millennium people have navigated the "astral" blindly killing demons and running into their "deities" dejour, but never has such an accurate road map been created that will allow one to shape their reality and ultimately help society as a whole. That is why Franks model holds such appeal to me, unlike the mystical humbug of the past, this model realizes Focus 2 for what it is, and thus can be an extremely useful for empowering people and helping them in the physical.
Han
Unfortunately, the idea that the Astral is populated by all manner of negative "beings" waiting to feed off your energy, or haunt you, or otherwise do you harm, is perhaps one of the most awful Dark Age legacies that continues to haunt this topic today.
Mystical traditions are racked with superstition and tales of "dark forces" that are set to prey on the unwary. Much of what I see under the umbrella of (so called) Psychic Self-Defense is, in my opinion, mere borderline paranoia. By way of a contrast, I tell you simply and factually where all these superstitions and other "negative" notions have arisen from. It's so darned obvious it will make you chuckle, like it does me, and I've known the solution for years and it still makes me chuckle. Many mystics claim to offer "protection" and "healing" against these (so called) forces. But once I educate you as to the facts, you will realize that my knowledge is all the protection you will ever need.
The core problem, again, is realizing that there are different primary areas within consciousness, and all you really need to know to "solve the puzzle" is to know the various ground-rules that apply within those areas. Plus, once you realize where you actually are when you become situated within the (so called) "Astral", the nature of the environment becomes crystal clear to you.