If we are to believe that we come from one supreme scource, if we belive that one energy created all that exists in this univeres, and personaly I do.
When did that scource i.e God, decidide to create demons? and why dont they incarnate (obviosly because there is no such thing). I dont believe there is anything in the non physical spirtual planes that dosent incarnate on earth, apart from higher guides and master guides etc, and to be honest does anyone truly believe there are any forms of life of a lower vibration than that which we find on our earth.
Demons only exist if fancyiful minds. Can any one evidance any different?
Demons are as real as angels, jesus, and god. The lower plains that you travel while dreaming will verify this fact. Lucifer has many demons and in return his demons have legions that follow. If you believe in angels and god than certainly you can see the fine balance of good and evil that exists everywhere you look. The lower vibrational states are some of the easiest to reach for U.S citizens(and most of the world really). Hmmm wonder why?
Quote from: Enoch on October 31, 2006, 17:38:32
Demons are as real as angels, jesus, and god. The lower plains that you travel while dreaming will verify this fact. Lucifer has many demons and in return his demons have legions that follow. If you believe in angels and god than certainly you can see the fine balance of good and evil that exists everywhere you look. The lower vibrational states are some of the easiest to reach for U.S citizens(and most of the world really). Hmmm wonder why?
Who said i believe in Angels? and why is it easiest for U.S citiezens to reach and find Demons, do the live in Kentucky?
So where are they, if they are of a lower vibration then what is their purpose and what is their piont?
If lucifer is the opposite of God, then Gods creates and Gods creations progress through incarnation and spirtual growth. Then what is the purpose of an oppsite conciousness? ie Mr lucifer? to destroy? and hinder creation? and spiritual progress? then that would be suicidal for Lucifer because he/she would be destroying them selves.....? And lets imagine Lucifer sucseeded where would hell exist for it truly is the opposite of god then ultimatly the destruction it creates would mean it would have no where to exist! Demons and hell are in the mind
Demons and hell are part of the mind yes. In return for being part of our minds they exist. Just as this world exists through our beliefs and the energies that we can see and feel.
It makes perfect sense that lucifer would try to prevent spiritual progress. It matters very little if humans realize spirit to satan. In fact it makes his job easier. You have one but never spend time in life to aknowledge it. So you have a stagnant spirit and are filled with the sins of this plane. Gluttony,lust, greed, materilaism, you name it. Yes the united states is very good at being sinners with little regard to there spirit and growing up under a "lost" government that only makes gains for every soul satan recieves. Our earth is a beuatiful place but its also full of lucifers minions. It is but one of gods mansions that we live in but we should not be so grounded that all we see is the gifts the world offers and not spirit.
If you are a dreamer the lower states can be reached by leaving (obe) through the lower chakra. And also by just living as most people do it is natural to not even realize we are but a step away from hell. In return though we are but a step from astral or the higher planes as well.
For me to say this has quite a bit of meaning really. Because im no christian by any stretch of the imagination, yet i know that god and jesus are here for all of us.
Dont be fooled just because you dont see demons. They are here and some are physically here. They thrive and become more powerful by the sins of man. Men can also be vessels for the demonic and the angelic. But again satan works very subtly he does not need you to be a mass murderer he just needs you to sin enough that you are his.
For more information on the higher and lower planes and demons read up on the tree of life, the tree of knowledge, and solomons writings.
QuoteDemons only exist if fancyiful minds. Can any one evidance any different?
Oh I could provide a whole host of experiences I have had, some subtle and some less so, with negative entities, as well as with a number of other classes of entities, some experiences relating to me some also involving other family members and obvious physical effects on me and them. But I doubt it would count for much in your mind, besides I've said it all before on these forums. I will also assume then that your opinions are based upon just that and not experience. You seem a little too keen to bring things down to intellectual arguments.
However, I will say that it is the height of arrogance to presume anything about what may or may not exist in the universe based upon the argument that "God created it". It presumes an understanding of the mind of God, and a similar level of omniscience would be required just so say what has has never existed or happened on this planet.
However, if you want to get into intellectual debate on this subject, why should demons not exist, given that psychopaths, murderers and rapists exist in the physical? Its really not such a jump.
Mate, its a
bloody enormous and excessively complex universe out there!!! Dont get caught in little man thinking of "I think its like this that etc this is possible this is not blah blah blah". I once heard the term "intellectual masturbation" applied to this sort of thinking, and I think it is apt :-P. IMO its probably an unwise thing to do for ascended masters let alone us inexperienced little children, but hey I guess it leads to learning so go ahead and knock yourself out! Yeah suppose I have probably been down similar roads in the past so I do understand the desire to quantify and specify as much of the universe as you can. Just please do bear in mind that yours and mine are at best educated guesses, especially when it comes to such vast subjects as the one you are tackling (ie the structure and possibilities of the universe)
<grins>
Rob
I'll try not to sidetrack the issue, since I have no opinion on the main argument-
QuoteIf lucifer is the opposite of God,
That was never the idea. Lucifer (Venus) was one of God's brightest angels, and it gets confused with Satan (Saturn) which is a title which means "Prosecutor" or "Adversary". Satan is supposed to be sent to us by God to accuse us of whatever we're guilty of-He's supposed to be man's adversary, not God's, according to the Bible Scholars I've read.
Sorry for the interruption.
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n144/Rainey_02/Speedbump_WEB.gif)
:-D
Hmm...
This arguement seems to take a similar form to the proverbial one asked by inquisitive young children
"If God is so good, why does he let bad stuff happen? Why did he let the dog get hit by a car?"
The response that a number of philosophers offer to this problem, known properly as the "problem of the existence of evil", or some variant, is the "doctrine of freewill".
This idea goes something like, "God loved the world so much, that he wanted to give the best thing he could think of, the freedom do make choices: to do, feel, create, alter, etc. as one pleases. "He" knew that to do this would allow for the introduction of evil into the world, as anyone could obviously choose ill as easily as "good", but the greatness of this gift in "His" mind outweighed the total sum of suffering and torment that it would by necessity introduce into a world without choice."
Hence you have those who have chosen ill. They are not evil per se, meaning they are not intrinsically evil to their core and incapable of anything else, yet they have still made choices that result in suffering for others and themselves.
I ask you to excuse me, for the language that this idea necessitates is not my usual mode of describing "divinity", but rather the form the arguement generally takes, with my own corallaries added in as footnotes; even so, I think it is a strong and simple answer to this problem.
Quote from: majour ka on October 31, 2006, 17:10:04
Demons only exist if fancyiful minds. Can any one evidance any different?
How can you be sure that demons are the only thing that exists only in your mind, maybe everything else does too...
-Thoughts
Quote from: Rob on November 01, 2006, 19:11:36
Oh I could provide a whole host of experiences I have had, some subtle and some less so, with negative entities, as well as with a number of other classes of entities, some experiences relating to me some also involving other family members and obvious physical effects on me and them. But I doubt it would count for much in your mind, besides I've said it all before on these forums. I will also assume then that your opinions are based upon just that and not experience. You seem a little too keen to bring things down to intellectual arguments.
Mate, its a bloody enormous and excessively complex universe out there!!! Dont get caught in little man thinking of "I think its like this that etc this is possible this is not blah blah blah". I once heard the term "intellectual masturbation" applied to this sort of thinking, and I think it is apt :-P.
Lol Rob the first bit of your reply sounds aptly like a bit of your "intellectual masterbation" that you were telling us about, and its never wise asume anything!
I base my open minded views on personal expirience and learning, and dont pressume to know the answer, the evidance I have expirienced has led me to my belliefs.
So these demons you have had first hand expirience of, what did they look like?
QuoteI base my open minded views on personal expirience and learning, and dont pressume to know the answer, the evidance I have expirienced has led me to my belliefs.
Yes. Which brings us to why do some of us experience demons, negs, ETs and other horrifying things and some of us don't? My belief is because that is what we've created, for whatever reason. I think one way is, we surround ourselves with whatever tickles our fancy...and by that I mean...we think, eat, sleep, talk, and walk about that tickle factor.
I don't like watching negative movies or even news report too much, but some people thrive on that stuff.... How much you wanna bet the person that thrives on that, is the one having "problems" with demons?
Quote from: TalaNay on November 03, 2006, 21:34:35
Yes. Which brings us to why do some of us experience demons, negs, ETs and other horrifying things and some of us don't? My belief is because that is what we've created, for whatever reason. I think one way is, we surround ourselves with whatever tickles our fancy...and by that I mean...we think, eat, sleep, talk, and walk about that tickle factor.
I don't like watching negative movies or even news report too much, but some people thrive on that stuff.... How much you wanna bet the person that thrives on that, is the one having "problems" with demons?
That makes me wonder if we're opening the doors to our soul when we feed on stuff like that. Garbage in garbage out!
Quote from: TalaNay on November 03, 2006, 21:34:35
Yes. Which brings us to why do some of us experience demons, negs, ETs and other horrifying things and some of us don't? My belief is because that is what we've created, for whatever reason. I think one way is, we surround ourselves with whatever tickles our fancy...and by that I mean...we think, eat, sleep, talk, and walk about that tickle factor.
I don't like watching negative movies or even news report too much, but some people thrive on that stuff.... How much you wanna bet the person that thrives on that, is the one having "problems" with demons?
Hi, thats pretty much what i was trying to say, but you made a much better job of saying it than I did lol! thank you Marcus. I dont start the post to be hostile or provocotive, only I went to an open circle for mediums recently who seemed to have a fixiation with evel spirits and bieng taken over, which i found odd? and a little diturbing, but everybody is entitled to thier own beliefs. As the night went on it became more obviouse that people less developed psychicly shall we say were the ones who seemed to be drawn into the whole idea the most. Now im not saying that people who are clairvoyant havent expienced unwanted things, because how could I know, although I doubt they do, but in my mediumship and astral travelles I havent personally come up against anything nasty, and dosent realy fit anywhere realisticly in my belief system.
It would seem to me that if demons or what ever did exist, that those of us who do haeling and are following a more spiritual path etc would be a threat to thier cause, and as such as such we would be prime targets. I think there is enough diffulcty in this physical world to just live prosper and enoy our selves, with out the help of demonic enteties, thats where I believe the fine balance lies that Rob was pointing out, right here, in our minds. two cents any way God bless M x
QuoteI think there is enough diffulcty in this physical world to just live prosper and enoy our selves, with out the help of demonic enteties, thats where I believe the fine balance lies that Rob was pointing out, right here, in our minds.
That's how I feel. Most of the first part of my existence in this physical life...sucked. I felt pain, saw pain, lived pain, and finally escaped pain. My experience's rarely are negative and if they are it is because I chose it by thinking about negative aspects for several days at a time. I have a post somewhere here..LOL. about a test I did on what happens when we dwell on negativeness. I shall go find it.....
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=20881.0 There it is. If you haven't seen it yet, I found it interesting.. I also found some of the responses...interesting and telling. :)
Fun's over.
There is no evil.
I feel...that there is positive and there is negative in all things, and it is a balance that is fixed into position. You just don't always see it. You see only and precisely what you want to see.
We like to think there is ultimate evil so we can know and believe in the ultimate good, but we haven't that either. To me it seems whatever primordial belief of evil there was in this world...spiraled out of control and spawned a life of its own. As thriving as the human race are the ideas, the definitions and concepts of what is evil. And of these ideas -- mere thoughts -- is born the desires and actions to rid of it. To destroy it, to purify everything. Evil perpetuates evil. But evil, there is not.
Takes time to get comfortable with it.
We're all as confused as deaf bats and life's a walk in the fog.
Why would you say fun is over? Are you one of those ppl who thrive on the negative side of things?
You might want to say this is your opinion because I do not need to believe in some ultimate evil so I can believe in the ultimate good. IMO, we are always 'born' with good in our hearts..it's what the person does with it that matters. It's obvious to me that there are alot of negative people out there walking the earth today. It seems though, they are being found out more than ever now....2012???...
Not at all.
I have seen some people enjoy a good witch hunt...but there's never any real witch. People do thrive on negativity. When I spoke of ultimate good and evils I was refering to religion in a manner. For example, no one would read the bible if it was entirely gray area. You may be able to understand things as you have described. Others, they look for proof.
I really believe there is no more evil than there ever was. There is only media that reports only negativity because it makes for a better story. You don't see much of the good. Nobody does, but it is still there and always will be.
...And I did say it was my opinion when I said I feel in the 3rd line down after the first two statements. I tend to make statements at the very beginning of every opinion I inject into conversation so you know automatically what I see. It's just my way, I am frank. I'm not negative or trying to be...anything really, other than myself. :-P
Balance is the key. Jeesh dont any of you listen.? Ok some of you do so dont smite me...lol
Really seriously in ALL HONOSTY. There is a god and a devil. There is good and evil. Dont any of you have experiance in dreaming at all? Have none of you ever met a demon? How do they look lol they look like us (or whatever they want) but normally just like us. Come on open your eyes and your minds and your hearts. All the bibles in existence are not lying.....All the religions of the world are not wrong. See for Jeaash im hanging out at an astral forum and none of you can say you have net a demon or a angel? What the heck you been doing? Are you just all talk? There is no REAL dreamer among you?
Few points
QuoteIt would seem to me that if demons or what ever did exist, that those of us who do haeling and are following a more spiritual path etc would be a threat to thier cause, and as such as such we would be prime targets. I think there is enough diffulcty in this physical world to just live prosper and enoy our selves, with out the help of demonic enteties, thats where I believe the fine balance lies that Rob was pointing out, right here, in our minds. two cents any way God bless M x
Yup, thats true, and it happens. However, there is also the premise that "the most clever thing the devil did was convince mankind he did not exist". So both point of view have some truth, as is often the case.
QuoteLol Rob the first bit of your reply sounds aptly like a bit of your "intellectual masterbation" that you were telling us about, and its never wise asume anything!
I base my open minded views on personal expirience and learning, and dont pressume to know the answer, the evidance I have expirienced has led me to my belliefs.
So these demons you have had first hand expirience of, what did they look like?
When I say intellectual masturbation I am talking about building castles in the sky, ie basing your beliefs upon a lack of evidence, pure speculation, and lets not forget pre-existing desires to believe the world works in a certain way eh? I have no need to do this with respect to negs etc. It is possible that I am wrong about where you are coming from, if so sorry, but I doubt I am.
What do they look like? Well I have never met a "demon" I dont think, but lesser negative entitie(s) yes. That depends only on how they want to present themselves, as Enoch said, and is somewhat irrelevant. However for me they were once like shadows in the pitch black, once like a very black figure standing at the bottom of my bed, etc etc. I have met other people with similar experiences who told me about them with little prompting, and others who talk about similar things ie spiders snakes etc etc - and IMO the collective consciousness argument does not cut it even close.
QuoteI don't like watching negative movies or even news report too much, but some people thrive on that stuff.... How much you wanna bet the person that thrives on that, is the one having "problems" with demons?
Wouldnt bet too much if I were you, I only just got a TV the other day (literally) and way prefer uplifting movies to the dark ones. Oh, and martial arts :-D.
Well said Enoch, this stuff does crop up in every religion. The other day I saw a hindu painting with angels in it, it was breathtakingly beautiful.
Rob
.... oh and CFTraveler - fantastic point of view, I have never heard it before, very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Thanks rob. Im sort of stunned here really.
Here is just one more fact that good and evil exist. In Genesis adam and eve ate from a tree. The tree was what? It was the tree of knowledge OF GOOD AND EVIL. God did not want us to have to worry about balance in life. He prefered that we not know.
You see Lucifer is mad at all of us. He hates the fact that we are eternal (as angels and demons are) and the fact that we in the end would end up just like him (angelic and live forever with god) as he did was just to much. Why do you think that we have the ten commandments and the seven deadly sins? Because these are the temptations. These are literally the demon that tempt us every day of our lives. The original sin. Now look at our world and if you cant tell me who's in control than you have some serious issues.
God means for us to live in this world not OF this world. We are truly not of this earth. It is as i have said but one of many of the lords mansions.
That is your belief enoch.. I don't believe in the devil, satan, lucifer..whatever the name. In my beliefs there is no outside force tempting you everyday to go over the speed limit, steal something from the store, cheat on your mate...etc. It is YOUSELF..
Quote from: Enoch on November 06, 2006, 17:37:44
Balance is the key. Jeesh dont any of you listen.? Ok some of you do so dont smite me...lol
Really seriously in ALL HONOSTY. There is a god and a devil. There is good and evil. Dont any of you have experiance in dreaming at all? Have none of you ever met a demon? How do they look lol they look like us (or whatever they want) but normally just like us. Come on open your eyes and your minds and your hearts. All the bibles in existence are not lying.....All the religions of the world are not wrong. See for Jeaash im hanging out at an astral forum and none of you can say you have net a demon or a angel? What the heck you been doing? Are you just all talk? There is no REAL dreamer among you?
I don't believe balance is
the key. I believe it
just is.
I've dealt with some annoying
negs. Some terribly frightening ones too...no demons.
It isn't our sight, but our interpretation. The differing views here account for each individuals interpretation. It isn't a matter of sight or being a
real dreamer. I could say the same about you, that you are a fraud if you cannot see the good, and the beauty in this life as well. :-P
When I fall asleep, I wake up inside of that sleep and I stay awake until I rise in the morning...I don't ever stop seeing, dreaming and projecting.
I love this planet and it is beautiful. These are not things that are up for interpretation unless you disbelieve in god. And trust me he exists.
I can't trust you in this case. I'm sorry. I trust only what I feel...and I wouldn't say I don't believe in God. :wink: Or angels for that matter...
Quote from: Enoch on November 07, 2006, 16:49:44
I love this planet and it is beautiful. These are not things that are up for interpretation unless you disbelieve in god. And trust me he exists.
Care to elaborate? :)
:-D
Quote from: majour ka on October 31, 2006, 17:10:04
If we are to believe that we come from one supreme scource, if we belive that one energy created all that exists in this univeres, and personaly I do.
When did that scource i.e God, decidide to create demons? and why dont they incarnate (obviosly because there is no such thing). I dont believe there is anything in the non physical spirtual planes that dosent incarnate on earth, apart from higher guides and master guides etc, and to be honest does anyone truly believe there are any forms of life of a lower vibration than that which we find on our earth.
Demons only exist if fancyiful minds. Can any one evidance any different?
demons are nothing more than angels who rebelled against God. Lucifer (also known as satan, if you research you would find that a devil is a high ranking follower of Lucifer) was an angel who got other angels on his side, rebelled, and lost. demons arent the big fanged monsters that popular fiction shows you. and from experience i KNOW that they exist....and they are very very cunning.
Quote from: gangta on November 07, 2006, 22:52:46
and from experience i KNOW that they exist....and they are very very cunning.
You know they exist?
Hmmm....
Think about something Talanay mentioned earlier - why is it that some people experience these things and others don't?
Very simple answer here -
you create your own reality!!!No that's not some new age waffle, it's being proven all the time through Quantum Mechanics - we affect the material world around us by our consciousness, by observing it. We make our own reality all the time based on our perceptions, which are "filtered" by our fears and our beliefs.
If your beliefs or fears of demonic beings are so ingrained into your thoughts you are going to make them a reality for yourself.
In which case, ask yourself - does this belief serve me or benefit me in any way? Is this belief making my life better?
If you cannot answer yes to any of these, then what is the point in bringing entities such as demons into your reality?
My experiences agree with Talanay.
There are no demons, biblical or otherwise around us.
The only demons I've ever experienced are those within my own ego.
Quote from: Enoch on November 06, 2006, 18:35:36
Thanks rob. Im sort of stunned here really.
Here is just one more fact that good and evil exist. In Genesis adam and eve ate from a tree. The tree was what? It was the tree of knowledge OF GOOD AND EVIL. God did not want us to have to worry about balance in life. He prefered that we not know.
You see Lucifer is mad at all of us. He hates the fact that we are eternal (as angels and demons are) and the fact that we in the end would end up just like him (angelic and live forever with god) as he did was just to much. Why do you think that we have the ten commandments and the seven deadly sins? Because these are the temptations. These are literally the demon that tempt us every day of our lives. The original sin. Now look at our world and if you cant tell me who's in control than you have some serious issues.
God means for us to live in this world not OF this world. We are truly not of this earth. It is as i have said but one of many of the lords mansions.
Another look at genesis: The aramaic word for evil used in the old testament meant 'immaturity'. So if you pick a fruit before it's time it's 'green' or 'immature'. Sort of gives the genesis story a whole different flavor, doesn't it? Maybe they ate the fruit before they were ready.
Pizza anyone? :evil:
Yes you create the reality that you want. You do not change what is said by god to his children you do not recreate historical fact to your own likeing. The children that have the seed of god resideing in them. If the world was not balanced YIN and YANG. Than it would be a struggle to live from day to day. When the sun rises on any planet what is on the opposite side DARKNESS. When you astral travel you can go to the higher planes and the lower planes. You dont choose to not believe in darkness and it will just go away....Dont any of you protect yourselves in astral? Non of you ever use any minor protection of any kind? Non of you have ever seen a real exorcism? How about the government? You think that all the evil that they have done comes from themself? Look around you the evil is every where. Its so subtle that you can almost live your life and not see it at all. Thats exactly what lucifer wants. You never realize you have a spirit because your to busy worrying about how much you will own in this life or how much money you have or how your going to get laid next....The ten commanments and the seven deadly sins are not in place for our reading enjoyment there there for a reason. Weather or not you believe in a physical demon you cannot deny that we are in the mouth of the dragon. There even a comandment that we no longer even follow at all. keep the sabbath day holy...It was worked out of society in subtle slow and manipulative ways. But that does not mean we are not sinning because society says its ok to work every day.....It does not mean its ok for 19 and 20 year old men to die for no more cause than a bunch of greedy secret society rulers wanting to have more money......
If you listen to nothing at all remember that if you cannot take it with you to the afterlife how important is it really? Whats the root of evil? Man is. men can become demons also. Its not reserved to the watchers that failed the lord there are many demons and angels men have the seed in them and can be either.
Every society that has ever existed has a demon of some name and type. I will not pretend that i know better than everyone that has lived.
You pretend to travel the astral, You say that reincarnation exists, And we study our past lives quite often for more information on history. Yet you think that these past lives dont influence bad people also? You think that its reserved for those of us that can here and see them?
Light/dark
day/night
good/evil
yin/yang
right/left
up/down
hot/cold
angel/demon
right brain/left brain
If you are at all in tune to our world you know the balance is gone, Thats why we are ravaged by natural disasters and war and now monitered in everything we do by homeland security,drought,new disease. the balance is at an end. Thats why there is a new age comeing in 2012. We as humans have failed yet again. Failed to see what is important in life.
Quote from: Enoch on December 22, 2006, 16:41:17
Whats the root of evil? Man is. men can become demons also. Its not reserved to the watchers that failed the lord there are many demons and angels men have the seed in them and can be either.
No, I definitely don't feel it is that way. It is not that someone is either good or evil. That is as close to a black and white perspective as there is. Every human possesses both inside of them, at the same time, always. All of us are ambiguous, we are dualities.
Am I evil? No.
Am I good and pure? No.
You should already know this choose to become a demon or a angel. Some gnostics even strive to become angelic while still living. It is the root of there "powers". You also know and can feel that at any time you can give in Totally to one side or the other. Its not hard just pick. The problem is choosing to be so extreme usually sends one to a looney bin or they end up like hitler or dommer. Even the most evil have influences of good and perform good acts. It does not by any means they are not demonic. You think the government send in troops to die for no good reason? Heck no its a sacrafice. And they know it. Its gives power any mage knows that. The thing is if i could prove it well i sure as heck would not be here writing on this forum...You think someone that was not demonic or trying to become that way would do this? It is already proven in the book of Enoch. We are the seed of god. we have been bread with angels you think the opposite cannot/has not already happened? Even the Merovingian blood that still lives today has claim to the line of Jesus. We are in the likeness and god has warned many times to try and dethrone him is rediculous. Do you think this warning would even exist if we could not become so much more?
Back in ancient time people worshipped other people. These other people claimed god hood. well not really gods at all. More like demons and angels.
Enoch himself never died he was illuminated and ascended to heaven without ever dying after living for thee hundred and sixty five years. His blood is also among the people that are here now. Regular human ? I think not. The mustard seed resides in all human kind. Give it the credit it deserves.
This same discussion has been going on forever. I still haven't seen a demon or negative entity and it seems the ones who have are still in that mind set.
*shrugs* who cares anymore... Live in your dark world, just don't drag others down with you. I don't believe I have "demon" in me..and frankly I find that statement....silly. And how in the world can you even make your mouth say that a four year old can be a demon.
Nodes, you've been walking on the darkside since you've been on these forums. You don't think for one minute that it's YOU, that can make the difference..? Stop thinking, talking, breathing, eating and sleeping negative thoughts. Then get back to us in a few months.
OK Nodes,
If Talanay's words mean nothing then perhaps my words and my experiences might mean something? Then again, Talanay does come at this topic with a great deal of experience that you fail to give her credit for.
I'll repeat something I said earlier.
If you believe demons are real, then for you they probably are.
Doesn't mean they're real for any of the rest of us.
Most of what we experience as being "negative entities" are very simply the outward projections or reflections of our own fear or pain.
I've discussed this topic with a lady that works at my spiritual institute that has been a practicing professional medium for over 30 years now. She has never met a spirit that she could describe as a "negative entity" or demonic. She has felt only the dark energies of peoples own ego manifestations, and other spirits that are simply of a lower vibration that do not serve any benefit to us.
In that, there is no fear, no prejudice, no judgement.
When we start judging spirits as being "demonic" we are working out of old rigid belief systems that really do not serve us. Better to let such belief systems go and instead work with beliefs that do serve us, such as letting go of the "scapegoat" idea of demons and look to healing our own pain and fears
Talanay can hardly be described as being ignorant for telling people to look to themselves, to stop focussing on negative thoughts and beliefs.
She has it right!
It's all about learning to own our own stuff and getting out of destructive negative thought patterns.
True ignorance comes when we project our stuff onto other people and beings - such as demons - so that we can run away from having to deal with and heal ourselves.
Thank you for your comments James, it is nice to know when someone else understands my view of things. :)
Nodes I was pretty sure you were going to react the way you did. I'm quite used to your personal insults but they no longer get under my skin. I've learned that it is your own insecurities that cause you to get so defensive and cause you to act in such a vicious, hateful, abhorrent, bitter, catty, and spiteful manner. I've not attacked you in any way, shape or form and to play the victim once again is getting very old.
You are the embodiment of what you talk about, yet you try and act like you are not. You, no one else, has created the very reality that you are living out right now. You choose to believe people or entities from an outside influence cause people to act in cruel and hateful ways. I don't.
PEOPLE choose to act in cruel and hateful ways, then use the neg card as an excuse or even blame other people for their behaviour. pffhht.. what a crock. "You made me say those hateful things" I'm sure we've all experienced or are still experiencing someone like that in our lives. The one who can't take responsibility for their own actions and just loves to blame everyone but themselves. Maybe they use excuses and shields because if they allowed their consciousness to admit they are actually in control, it will be too much for them to handle.
It what way...? I don't know. I do know that when one starts to look within and really judge how they act or have acted, it is painful and it takes alot to not shove it to the recess of the mind or put it behind the neg card.
I have to laugh.... because I just got a visual. When I said "painful" I did mean physically or at least so emotional, it feels physical. So, in a sense it could be construed that something was in me. The visual was a neg being pulled out of my stomach...but with a comical twist.
I hope you find peace Nodes because by your words alone, you do not seem very happy but very angry.
God you are fools. Just because you do not see demons in your pretty little world does not mean there not there. NOT BELIEViNG DOES NOT MAKE THEM GO AWAY. If your so wise as to discredit every bible the world has created from ethiopia to the niv than maybe we should just all bow down to you. For surely if you can make evil go away your deserving.
All you need to do to know they exist is look at history history repeats itslef and it is the facts. How many possesions there have been. Even gods own words have stated that demons are real. But thats right you no more than god.
Yin and Yang, ohh whats the point here im not going to change anyones mind. If you are in fear of this type thing you do not see it when you project anyone knows that. its an energy around you that keeps "them" back. But to truly be a man/women of knowledge you must walk both sides of the fence otherwise your mearly a fool.
Quote from: Enoch on December 30, 2006, 12:10:17
But to truly be a man/women of knowledge you must walk both sides of the fence otherwise your mearly a fool.
Enoch,
There is no such thing as the former. What you know on your own can't even compare to a dust partical in the vaccum of space. You are the fool you accuse them of being. The wonderful thing is that's part of what being human is, you can never learn or know enough to be anything but. No amount of knowledge or wisdom can spare you from being a fool like everyone else. You know nothing more than I. And I know as much as a half second in eternity.
If you would listen, the advice TalaNay has given Nodes could also be your ticket. But I guess if you
cannot believe that you
are powerful enough to uncreate these things, then you are not. Then you are powerless.
I was powerful enough...that's why all the demons I used to see and believe in, now couldn't have been anything more than negs which can never come back. They cannot even come near me now...and I'm certain it is because they would vanish forever under my gaze. They now fear me, otherwise they would have continued to hurt me every night. I just don't let myself be weak, I've come into a fuller potential spiritually.
Your soul has unlimited potiential...are you not aware? :-P
...Or can you not believe me? :wink:
Quote from: Enoch on December 30, 2006, 12:10:17
God you are fools. Just because you do not see demons in your pretty little world does not mean there not there. NOT BELIEViNG DOES NOT MAKE THEM GO AWAY. If your so wise as to discredit every bible the world has created from ethiopia to the niv than maybe we should just all bow down to you. For surely if you can make evil go away your deserving.
All you need to do to know they exist is look at history history repeats itslef and it is the facts. How many possesions there have been. Even gods own words have stated that demons are real. But thats right you no more than god.
Yin and Yang, ohh whats the point here im not going to change anyones mind. If you are in fear of this type thing you do not see it when you project anyone knows that. its an energy around you that keeps "them" back. But to truly be a man/women of knowledge you must walk both sides of the fence otherwise your mearly a fool.
What is up with the anger?
QuoteNOT BELIEViNG DOES NOT MAKE THEM GO AWAY.
I believe that you believe and how can something go away that was never there for me to start with?
I'm going to guess by your reaction that you have seen, heard or been possessed by some entity. I believe that for some reason you've created the situation itself. I'm still confused as to why the anger. Why does it upset you so much that you feel the need to call people fools?
QuoteIf you are in fear of this type thing you do not see it when you project anyone knows that. its an energy around you that keeps "them" back. But to truly be a man/women of knowledge you must walk both sides of the fence otherwise your mearly a fool.
It sounds as if you are expressing someone elses opinion here. What do I have to fear? How do you know I haven't walked both sides of this imaginary fence?
Quote from: TalaNay on December 30, 2006, 11:47:32
PEOPLE choose to act in cruel and hateful ways, then use the neg card as an excuse or even blame other people for their behaviour. pffhht.. what a crock. "You made me say those hateful things" I'm sure we've all experienced or are still experiencing someone like that in our lives. The one who can't take responsibility for their own actions and just loves to blame everyone but themselves. Maybe they use excuses and shields because if they allowed their consciousness to admit they are actually in control, it will be too much for them to handle.
*sigh*
People with sh!*ty attitudes are like the part 2 of dealing with negative entities. Though so far there's been only one person I couldn't neutralize by any means, kindness, patience, love...She insisted on being a victim in life to whatever end. I've tried many ways to help her, it does seem like her physical brain scrambles and distorts her spirit -- something I think happens to many -- because her subconscious is far more rational.
Two months ago she came to me while I was out of body...we had a good talk, but I'm certain she would never remember. Though I caught her trying to plant astral objects in my house, which I wouldn't allow because it struck me as some form of witchcraft.
Negative people in the physical are harder...to send away, to help...
I'll take on a demon over that any day.
Negative people..key words. People who are negative. Not people who have negative entity attachments, not someone possessed by a demon.
QuoteI'll take on a demon over that any day.
Perhaps that is why people think they are being attacked by negs and demons....because the real reality with a real person is much more harder to handle than some "inner" demon showing up in a dream or astral projection. Their fear in the real world is what is causing the very demons in their "inner" world.
Quote from: NodesOfYesod on December 30, 2006, 14:17:16
there is this website right and on this thread there is a bunch of people all complaining and moaning about how anoying talanay is.. they say she is this and that. and who is the only person who defended her and made excuses for the way she behaves?
thats right me . thats why im angry because you abuse the only one who defended you I have already asked you not to talk directly to me I concider it harrasment please dont do it again you sad old woman
Peace
Are you kidding me?? You are actually going to try and make me feel guilty now? Or are you tinkling on my leg and telling me it's friggin raining? I'm thinking all of the above. I'd like to know when you've given me one ounce of kindness since you've been on these forums? How dare you act with such viciousness towards me on these forums and then fake liking me on another. You are a fraud, fake and deceitful to boot.
You may cease trying to upset me by telling me others talk about me. Hell, I take it as a compliment that people have the need to talk about me in such a manner and with my own threads no less! If speaking of me makes them feel better about themselves, then so be it. People like that can only stand on others to feel good about themselves. I'm here to help. :)
And I hate to tell you but you are quite off the mark about who's harrassing who.
:-D
Smiting doesn't actually hurt, you know...hahahah. Smiting is foreign concept to me, even if the thing is just for kicks, I'll never return the favor if that's what you are seeking. You're forgiven beforehand, go ahead and smite me every 100 hours if you wish.
:-D
You too, huh? I return the favor, I'm not that forgiving yet, but am working on it...
Heehee, yeah.
I only applaud. :-)
Smiting might take karma away, but I always feel it still gives them something...when I'd rather give nothing at all if I don't like what someone has said. Also it seems if a person is acting negative, negative feedback seems to only feed and reassure them.
It is always fun to watch a debate unfold here, and observe the karma begin to vanish on both sides. I get a kick out of that. :lol:
Ok let me try this from a more objective approach. First is anyone here a real christian? or muslim? If you are either of these two you have no right to say demons dont exist. Your bible that cannot be flawed (from your own view point) tells you they exist. If you dont believe the bible you are not a true christian period. As for the muslim belief it is the same.
Some of you trying to argue have actually pointed out yourself that its belief. The human mind is most powerful in fact it is what creates our reality. The total belief that we live right here and now is what makes it so. The belief that you can project makes it so. The belief that the world is comeing to an end by millions or even billions of people will make it manifest as it will.
The belief in demons makes them so. They may not be a belief that you have but some do believe. Since some do believe and we as humans are all connected (do i need explain) than demons exist.
Even the anciant religions that taught us to astral travel teach that there is an underworld and and astral plane both are many layered. Your lower self is the connection to this underworld. and your higher self is the connection to the higher planes.
I am not a negative person. I love life and god. I live happily and do the best possible. But all i need to do is look at what our own government to be able to see that the demonic exists. Even if it is of a persons own makeing there are SOOOOO many that are corrupt and some that worship evil directly. The great horned owl,the skull and bones, these are leaders that worship evil. So even if they are makeing it up and the demon is themself. They have made it manifest in your world just by doing that.
I have many friends that practice magic. they speak and even physically see the demon and the angelic beings thay ask of. Is that just imagination gone wild? Even if it is they are connected to you and i so it is.
QuoteOk let me try this from a more objective approach. First is anyone here a real christian? or muslim? If you are either of these two you have no right to say demons dont exist. Your bible that cannot be flawed (from your own view point) tells you they exist. If you dont believe the bible you are not a true christian period. As for the muslim belief it is the same.
So much for the more objective approach. Right out of the box you are telling others they have no right to their own personal beliefs. Nice.
QuoteSome of you trying to argue have actually pointed out yourself that its belief. The human mind is most powerful in fact it is what creates our reality. The total belief that we live right here and now is what makes it so. The belief that you can project makes it so. The belief that the world is comeing to an endby millions or even billions of people will make it manifest as it will.
It's one thing to actually
believe the world is coming to an end, it's quite another to be just feeling fears. Most people that "believe" the world is going to end, believe this out of what they fear,
IMO.
QuoteThe belief in demons makes them so. They may not be a belief that you have but some do believe. Since some do believe and we as humans are all connected (do i need explain) than demons exist.
They exist in
your reality as I and others have said over and over, due to our opinion.
QuoteEven the anciant religions that taught us to astral travel teach that there is an underworld and and astral plane both are many layered. Your lower self is the connection to this underworld. and your higher self is the connection to the higher planes.
All religions in my mind are just another human beings concept, belief, opinion...etcetera, etcetera..... I do however agree with the many layers.. I feel a certain level system going on in the astral. From my perspective.
QuoteI am not a negative person. I love life and god. I live happily and do the best possible. But all i need to do is look at what our own government to be able to see that the demonic exists. Even if it is of a persons own makeing there are SOOOOO many that are corrupt and some that worship evil directly. The great horned owl,the skull and bones, these are leaders that worship evil. So even if they are making it up and the demon is themself. They have made it manifest in your world just by doing that.
I don't like to do politics, nor do I give my government that much energy thought. I tend to keep to my inner circle...those lessons that will have an impact on me personally. Worrying about wether the government is some kind of demon isn't on my to do list so, I just can't relate with you there, sorry.
QuoteI have many friends that practice magic. they speak and even physically see the demon and the angelic beings thay ask of. Is that just imagination gone wild? Even if it is they are connected to you and i so it is.
I don't know what to say to you without it ending up with you engaging in a personal insult attack at me. lol... I'm going to have to say the latter though, sorry.
:-)
Enoch,
You say that belief in demons makes them real.
I agree.
You say that not believing in them doesn't make them go away.
I disagree, for the simple reason that if it is belief that makes them real then the reverse must also be true. Flip that around and you could say that if not believing in them doesn't make them go away then believing in them doesn't make them real.
I'll ask you a question Enoch, that I have asked a few times nw in this topic:
How does believing that demons are real benefit you?
How does it make your life better?
Blessings,
James.
Hi Nodes,
To me those are all perfect examples of horribly negative people. I can't even for a second consider that people who do wicked things should be allowed an excuse such as possession or influence by a demon. When you say that their actions are the cause of anything but their conscience or lack there of you make excuses for them. They don't have a demon...they have apathy. I believe nothing else in this world has the power to convince a person to kill. It is a force...nonliving...apathy. :-(
If belief in the existence of demons is the best angle you can come from to make yourself understand that, then that is fine. I can't judge. I just feel such a belief on my own behalf would excuse them from the choices they chose to make...saying a demon is the cause lends a terrible person a separate personality on which to place the blame that is entirely theirs.
I just cannot give them that benefit.
But on the contrary...
What you believe, if such was the case it would have to mean that angels were the only reasons we ever did any good...wouldn't it? I am sure you know at least one human being who radiates love, an exceptionally warm hearted soul...so they are possessed by an angel? Doesn't sound so bad, except you end up denying them a good heart in their own right. Believing in these things also denies that kindness is in our free will.
I just don't feel we are devices (you know?) that can fall under another being's control.
:?
At least that is how it all makes sense to me. If you can explain to me the law by which only demons can influence us, not angels, please do. I am assuming you do believe in good people. Help me understand the purpose of angels in this world if the purpose of demons is as you have said.
If you are able, thanks in advance.
This is your second warning Nodes. If you cannot communicate in a more civil manner your posts will be deleted straight out and then if you continue to insult people you will be banned.
I did not deserve that.
All I asked is what you thought of certain things that I brought up on my own. I wanted your TAKE on those concepts only. I was not putting words in your mouth and if you read anything as being patronizing it was distorted in your head and you missed the point. I was not trying to counter you, but show where I was coming from so that you might see a way to help me understand your side. I wanted to know your thoughts only.
Sorry you feel as if everything is an attack. Hope one day you don't.
What if you feel it's your job/soul purpose to help a "demon" (who you met right after asking to meet your soulmate) (or just a thing with a really creepy, astral body?? That sucks peoples' energy in and is similar to an incubus) move to the higher astral planes? And what if you are scared half to death?
I'm sure this one will be thought of as total lunacy. Anyone with an open mind care to help??????????????????? This is getting way out of hand.
As weird as this sounds, I think I attracted him into my life (besides just asking the universe to meet my soulmate). I'm not evil or anything, but I like a lot of bands that speak of "satan" and such. I had a lot of band logo pics I recently discarded of that had pentagrams in them, etc. I may not believe in heaven/hell, but I am assuming they are levels of the astral plane. I also had a picture of a sick mushroom laying in bed with an erection, and a vampiric looking monster standing next to it (which would easily explain the incubus-type-guy i've attracted into my life). I've had that picture for years, in a collage, and never thought much of it until recently. I've noticed that EVERYTHING I owned, every material object, attracted things into my life. Needless to say, a lot of things have recently gone into the trash.
If anyone knew the whole, entire situation (which would take an eternity to write about), they may understand what was happening. I don't know, I may write more about it another time. I know this isn't all in my mind (or maybe it is, to the extent that everyone's reality is all in their mind) But I know he isn't fake to other people. There are a few other people who know that he's a psychic vampire, the people involved in witchcraft type stuff. Right now, I have mirrors sitting all around my desk. And oddly enough, it seems to be protecting me and reflecting the negativity he throws at me back at him. Very strange situation, indeed.
Well, if you see yourself as this entity's 'soul mate' and are convinced you're supposed to bring him up in his evolution, then you have to evolve yourself. If you truly believe that you're here to help the demon, instead of the demon being here to victimize you, then you need to refocus your life to:
Finding Love every where you go and with everyone you deal with;
Giving and realizing that you're here to benefit the world and trying to do it without destroying yourself, and recognizing that you are God's expression in this world now. If you can redirect your energy to doing good and being a blessing to the world, your demon will them benefit and may even help you thus advancing itself.
If however, the contrary is what your life is becoming about, then you have to rethink your relationship the way it is now.
Quote from: crystal138 on January 01, 2007, 10:43:08I had a lot of band logo pics I recently discarded of that had pentagrams in them, etc.
What does a Pentagram have to do with attracting negativity, or being Evil?
I wear a The Pentacle of King Solomon all the time, which contains a Pentagram.
The pentagram protects from these type entities. warding spells often have the user put a pentagram on there window in salt to keep the negative away.
Its a Christian ideology is all. Any upside down or even upright pentagram is EVIL.
But hey the Star of david is considered pagan or evil to. lol
Quote from: Enoch on January 20, 2007, 18:06:47
The pentagram protects from these type entities. warding spells often have the user put a pentagram on there window in salt to keep the negative away.
Its a Christian ideology is all. Any upside down or even upright pentagram is EVIL.
But hey the Star of david is considered pagan or evil to. lol
That is exactly the point I am trying to make... Pentagrams don't attract, nor represent evil. In most cases they are associated with Witchcraft (Wiccans, Druids, etc) All crafts of the Light, not of Darkness.
Sorry i was not refering to you my friend it was directed at the prior posts.
Quote from: EqualThoughts on November 02, 2006, 12:49:46
How can you be sure that demons are the only thing that exists only in your mind, maybe everything else does too...
-Thoughts
Lol im sure every exists in the mind, its the only way it can, regards
in this topic u can't have an opinion without someone having a go at you. So i'm just gonna throw my opinion in with little detail and let u carry on.
demons exist, they are a part of the source just like us. Every element of existence makes up a whole. Like it or not, not everything is good and hunky dory, "evil" exists. Although the concept of good and evil exists in our mind. Demons and "Satan" are just beings who have a different idea and a different plan to that of "angels" and "god". In our normal physical state we might interpret it as evil, but otherwise, when in an enlightened state, it can be seen as just...different.
They have a part to play in overall existence just like the soul, the mind, and different states of conciousness.
Where is this existence headed? thats a bit off topic =P but demons etc are still around whether people will believe it or not, our beliefs don't influence as much as you'd like to think.
If not already covered, I wouldn't mind to add two cents here...
Throughout my life I have continually come to face the subject of Good and Evil. I too, usually subscribe to the popular theory, if God created Earth or anything like a Divine One, why create dirty little Nasties? Doesn't make sense Personally
However, continually I am bombarded with the fact that some things about this world just don't make sense. That there are Beings, that exist and thrive on Negative Energies, and Demon may be a Metaphor for something a bit more closer to Home.
In my life there have been key points, pathways, to a Path of Good or Evil. It is unending, I believe souls are challenged with this choice, and it makes perfect sense to me. Unlike sheep guided to a perfect grazing ground, that would not make sense, we are Sheep that must find this ground ourselves. No Divine Energy is going to make it as easy as pie for us, and in this I feel some of the older religions have it right. There is a dark Malovent Force/Energy/set of Beings all wishing to guide little Lambs into their slaughter or into Dark Twisted Paths.. Recruitment to them would be as Angels or Guides aiding their long lost family members.......that or a twisted Karmic entanglement... A way to learn
Who understands Good greater than he/she who has truly felt Evil? They must be one in the same, we invented them?
I haven't read all the posts on this thread yet, but I will tomorrow, but I just wanted to post this while i'm on.
My boyfriend and I were playing playstation 2, and I took out the playstations disc without hitting the red button. The game sat there for a couple minutes and I walked around until the game froze and the screen turned blue (av2 screen)... then I started to put in the new game, but a strange sound came out of the television.... it sounded really deep and evil like a demon, and it was speaking in an old language. The dark demonic voice spoke through my television for like 60 seconds. The voice is not part of any speech pattern from the game. It didn't sound muffled or staticky... it was just a straight demonic voice.. and then it went away.
That was the only time I switched playstations discs and heard such a thing....
My boyfriend was with me and he heard it to. When the voice ended, he snickered and said, "wow, I thought the things about spirits speaking through tv's was a myth, but I guess it's not!"
Now, is this demon real? WEre we imagining it? We weren't watching a scary movie, there was no reason for us to hallucinate of a demonic voice. WE were minding our own business playing a rpg game, and all of a sudden we get that??!!
Yeah.. demons... maybe they're real.. maybe they're not....
I still need more proof though...
Maybe the voice was just a really old grumpy sounding ghost? lol... or we both hallucinated the same thing... or maybe someone sneaked mushrooms into our coca cola... >.>
<.<
Approached from a Jungian perspective (collective unconscious), I'd have to agree with Lon Milo DuQuette (Back cover, Angels, Demons & Gods of the New Millennium):
"Like it or not we all come hard-wired with a complete set (twelve six-packs) of Goetic demons. They are units of untamed natural forces within ourselves that we have ignored, denied or disowned.. They surface to work their mischief when our will is ambiguous and our resistance is low. After you have committed an embarrassing act of unbelievable stupidity you are really referring to them when you slap your forehead and scream, "I am my own worst enemy!" As long as they are ignored and uncontrolled, they are as dangerous as hungry beasts in an abandoned zoo."
Demons exist as energy, as do all things. In this case, they are negative energy. They are a part of our minds, however, we are all part of each other's minds (the Jungian perspective). The negative energy we choose to call "demonic" is, therefore, simultaneously our creation and an independant force. By learning to master these energies, we control the balance in ourselves and our lives. Things begin to work as they should. That is the point behind magic as a practice.
My opinion, for what it is worth.
Oh... and for some of the other postings... perhaps the authors let those demons sneak up and control their emotions?
C
Demons are the angels that was under lucifer's control. When he was tossed so was they.
Quote from: Curious39 on July 15, 2008, 12:58:03
Approached from a Jungian perspective (collective unconscious), I'd have to agree with Lon Milo DuQuette (Back cover, Angels, Demons & Gods of the New Millennium):
"Like it or not we all come hard-wired with a complete set (twelve six-packs) of Goetic demons. They are units of untamed natural forces within ourselves that we have ignored, denied or disowned.. They surface to work their mischief when our will is ambiguous and our resistance is low. After you have committed an embarrassing act of unbelievable stupidity you are really referring to them when you slap your forehead and scream, "I am my own worst enemy!" As long as they are ignored and uncontrolled, they are as dangerous as hungry beasts in an abandoned zoo."
Demons exist as energy, as do all things. In this case, they are negative energy. They are a part of our minds, however, we are all part of each other's minds (the Jungian perspective). The negative energy we choose to call "demonic" is, therefore, simultaneously our creation and an independant force. By learning to master these energies, we control the balance in ourselves and our lives. Things begin to work as they should. That is the point behind magic as a practice.
My opinion, for what it is worth.
Oh... and for some of the other postings... perhaps the authors let those demons sneak up and control their emotions?
C
That's a fascinating idea- I have a question- I get Goetia being considered 'negative archetypes' from a Jungian perspective- but I have a newbie question- Did Jung study goetia (I do know that at the end of his life he did concentrate more on occult studies)? And, is Goetia considered planetary archetypes? Just curious, dumb it down for me, because even though I have read Jungs's 'Psychology and Alchemy', I have not read any DuQuette except things like this in the internet.