Serial killer discussion

[Tiny]

Know any?

(WARNING: might be terrifying for the fainthearted)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjzIBI3jkKY

and another meshuggah (its from my avatar)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHVje5rtcM8

but everyone knows this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FINU71FyMto

[Tiny]

Terence Mckenna says that Shrooms give you a more science-fiction-like trip. Too bad i never found any 

[Naykid]

Never found any Shroom?  

That Iceman guy is/was crazy, crazy, crazy.  I saw a documentary on him and couldn't believe how cordial he was.. he was charming.  It showed me that evil does exist and it can have manners.  

[Tiny]

Never found any Shroom?  

That Iceman guy is/was crazy, crazy, crazy.  I saw a documentary on him and couldn't believe how cordial he was.. he was charming.  It showed me that evil does exist and it can have manners.  

it is off-topic but yes - i agree that evil can be quite fascinating at times to explore.

It is interesting how psychopaths are often very kind persons outside their "work". Richard Kuklinski for example was also a dedicated family man...he tried to support his family with his lot of dirty money from his dirty business.

Never found any Shroom?  

Only deadly look-alikes and amanita muscaria which are a different story and which i did take with success by the way, but never any psilocybes...

[Stillwater]

it is off-topic but yes - i agree that evil can be quite fascinating at times to explore.

It is interesting how psychopaths are often very kind persons outside their "work".

Yes. People like to dramatize the extreme differences they see between themselves, as "normal people", and people deemed psychotic, and profoundly departed from any reasonable sensibility. In truth, I think there is oftentimes only the subtlest difference in thought or manner in those who commit "evil" acts; just one peculiar thought or belief may motivate a person to quite audacious actions. People are fast to condemn, and declare others abberrant monsters, perhaps to distance themselves from the idea that they are not so different.

Hitler was actually lauded for his kindness and gentle ways, while he was not focused on his visions.

[Naykid]

Sorry about taking this thread off subject but I wanted to say that when you, Stillwater say this.

People are fast to condemn, and declare others abberrant monsters, perhaps to distance themselves from the idea that they are not so different.

I want to say I am different from the iceman, I'd like to think there aren't too many humans on this planet that will do what this man did to other human beings.  Just because the monster was nice to his family, (we think, no one has interviewed them) doesn't discount what horrible things he did.  The man tied up someone in a cave and left a camera on him and watch him get hate my rats and other creatures.... just for something to look at for goodness sakes.  You darn tootin I'm going to condemn him. 

[Tiny]

Sorry about taking this thread off subject but I wanted to say that when you, Stillwater say this.
I want to say I am different from the iceman, I'd like to think there aren't too many humans on this planet that will do what this man did to other human beings.  Just because the monster was nice to his family, (we think, no one has interviewed them) doesn't discount what horrible things he did.  The man tied up someone in a cave and left a camera on him and watch him get hate my rats and other creatures.... just for something to look at for goodness sakes.  You darn tootin I'm going to condemn him.  

Wow, lol that's sick, i didn't know he'd done that. I know he did drive into a parking lot once and nail an old man through the head with crossbow just to see how effective it'd be.

I know that years or even months of trauma-based brainwashing can neutralize many functions of the human mind such as conscience (hence marines are treated like junk) and it can, in the mind create a lust for doing unto others what has been done to him and so on...Eventually pain in oneself and others becomes pleasure and it'll be the only thing he knows.

[personalreality]

significant traumas can create these things.  what really counts is how the person deals with those traumas emotionally.

anyone watch Dexter?

Dexter and his brother Brian were both witness to their mother being murdered (chainsaw) in front of them and then they say in inches of her pooled blood for days.  This trauma broke them.  But Dexter was adopted by a police officer who felt Dexter was young enough to have a chance at something normal (while he thought Brian, who was older, was a lost cause). 

Well, when Dexter started to show signs of the effect the trauma had on him (killing small animals), his adoptive father began to teach him to kill only those people that killed or harmed others (besides murder, things like brutal rape and pedo).  Granted the urge to kill is still in him, but the interesting part is that he almost learns a type of compassion/empathy/sympathy for the people that have been killed or harmed, which drives him to bring justice to the "bad guy".

Conversely, his brother, who had no training to speak of like Dexter did, is a sadistic murderer.  He's the kind of guy Dexter kills.  Psychologically, Brian wasn't lead through any kind of coping process.  I know that teaching a kid to be a vigilante is an odd way of coping, but his 'father' di a good job with what he had. 

I think this is a really interesting analysis of the directions a significant trauma can have on the psyche.....of course in the books they get into a lot more supernatural stuff, like the trauma broke them down and opened them up to a possessing entity that Dexter calls his "Dark Passenger".  They mention this title in the show, but they attribute it to an ancient sumerian god in the books and even send dexter on an adventure dealing with a cult who worships said god in one of the books.  But nevertheless, it's still interesting.

[Naykid]

Wow, lol that's sick, i didn't know he'd done that. I know he did drive into a parking lot once and nail an old man through the head with crossbow just to see how effective it'd be.

I know that years or even months of trauma-based brainwashing can neutralize many functions of the human mind such as conscience (hence marines are treated like junk) and it can, in the mind create a lust for doing unto others what has been done to him and so on...Eventually pain in oneself and others becomes pleasure and it'll be the only thing he knows.

Since you're the OP I'm going to guess that it's OK to keep with this topic.  I don't need to get banned again. Permanently.

Yeah, he did that and many other things.  I'm a little ummmmmm ooked out by your laugh when you heard what he had done.  It was extremely sick.  The man he tied up took hours and hours to die and he scream most of the time and the iceman got off on it.  He did say it was probably the closest he came to having an actual emotion.  It was Dr. Stone who did the interview.  He used to have a show or still does, not sure, called Most Evil.  Very interesting the levels he created.

As a child who was abused, not only physically but mentally by more than one family member for about thirty years, I'd have to say it's a fcking cop-out to use that as an excuse to hurt others.  I never had the thought to take it out on others.. never.  I hated people for what they did, but I learned from it, not used it as a weapon.

That aside, I find human nature fascinating.   I'm always wondering why people do what they do, when they do it.  There are some wonderful enigmas I've watched over the years on this site alone.  And they've giving me lots to think about human nature.  

[Tiny]

Well I guess I'll just create a new thread for my intended topic then...

I'm a little ummmmmm ooked out by your laugh when you heard what he had done.

Well since I have seen nearly all the saw clips on utube pretty much nothing less will shake me anymore.

As a child who was abused, not only physically but mentally by more than one family member for about thirty years, I'd have to say it's a fcking cop-out to use that as an excuse to hurt others.

See! And if I didn't have my traumas occured throughout my life I wouldn't be the way I am - a siphonous, angry, vengeful asshat.   But I enjoy every bit of it, and so do these serial killers who are much further down the road, haha!


kind regards,

Paul

[Naykid]

Well I guess I'll just create a new thread for my intended topic then...

Well since I have seen nearly all the saw clips on utube pretty much nothing less will shake me anymore.

See! And if I didn't have my traumas occured throughout my life I wouldn't be the way I am - a siphonous, angry, vengeful asshat.   But I enjoy every bit of it, and so do these serial killers who are much further down the road, haha!


kind regards,

Paul

I'm not sure what you are saying, and frankly, I'm not sure I want to know but in for a penny in for a pound.  Are you saying you love other people's pain and sorrow?  You love making people hurt?  Are you aspiring to be like other serial killers? 

[personalreality]

not that abuse, murder, etc. etc. are pleasant, but maybe it needs to happen.  maybe some people need to be victims and others need to be predators.  maybe that's what their "soul" needs to experience.  a lesson must be learned.  seeing as how we're all infinite beings and whatnot, it shouldn't be that terribly immoral to kill or torture someone.  those two kinds of people come together because that is what they chose to do, that is what their energy dictates is appropriate for them.

[Naykid]

not that abuse, murder, etc. etc. are pleasant, but maybe it needs to happen.  maybe some people need to be victims and others need to be predators.  maybe that's what their "soul" needs to experience.  a lesson must be learned.  seeing as how we're all infinite beings and whatnot, it shouldn't be that terribly immoral to kill or torture someone.  those two kinds of people come together because that is what they chose to do, that is what their energy dictates is appropriate for them.

I'm at a loss for words... that doesn't happen.  OK.... give me a sec to gather my thoughts.   

*deep breath*..........  I think now I understand ya'lls little clique that you have going on and why it seems some of you are completely self unaware.  *another deep breath*.... and why I'm reminded of some of the people that used to hang out here years ago.

I agree that as souls we go through trials in life to learn lessons and that yes, we have to understand both sides of the coin.  I'm sure that is why I've been in so many wars, over so many lives.  I've killed and I've been killed.  I understand that. 

What I don't understand is how anyone can think regardless of the karmic value, that it's ok to think that it isn't terribly immoral to kill or torture anyone.  It is still not acceptable behaviour in any life time.  The reason for learning lessons is to become MORE compassionate and have empathy towards another, yet it seems you and few others seem to think it's... funny or cool.  This confuses me, but I'm willing to be open minded and try and understand this darker side of thinking.

[personalreality]

funny?  cool?

i think that i'm just not wound up about things that i've learned to accept. 

you obviously have a very personal connection to this subject, which would make your judgment biased at a deep emotional level.

i would also really appreciate it if you would quit referring to me and the IRC people (specifically Xanth) as "ya'lls clique".  we are friends, this is true.  we agree on some things, this is true.  but we disagree on much much more.  if you came into the chat room and talked to us more, i would consider you just as much of a friend.  we have a "clique" because we have gotten to know each other on a much more personal basis.  and you know what, it allows our discussions to get a lot more in depth because we feel like we're talking to people that at least "kind of" get us, unlike the complete disregard for the fact that we're people trying to learn who we are that we meet here on the forums sometimes.

but none of that means that we conspire in the chat room on what we agree is right and then come preach it in the forum.  so stop. thank you.

morality is just a ridiculous notion to me.  now, i choose to have compassion because i empathize with the human condition, but i also don't deny half of existence because someone told me it was morally wrong once.  i guess if you believe in all the love and light hippy dippy new age stuff, then cool, but i embrace the light and the dark.  in fact, i love darkness.  everything i've ever felt to be "good" and pleasurable has been dark, lunar, feminine, deep, mysterious.  embracing reality means all of reality, not just what the vicar says is good form.

[Naykid]

funny?  cool?

i think that i'm just not wound up about things that i've learned to accept.  

you obviously have a very personal connection to this subject, which would make your judgment biased at a deep emotional level.

i would also really appreciate it if you would quit referring to me and the IRC people (specifically Xanth) as "ya'lls clique".  we are friends, this is true.  we agree on some things, this is true.  but we disagree on much much more.  if you came into the chat room and talked to us more, i would consider you just as much of a friend.  we have a "clique" because we have gotten to know each other on a much more personal basis.  and you know what, it allows our discussions to get a lot more in depth because we feel like we're talking to people that at least "kind of" get us, unlike the complete disregard for the fact that we're people trying to learn who we are that we meet here on the forums sometimes.

but none of that means that we conspire in the chat room on what we agree is right and then come preach it in the forum.  so stop. thank you.

morality is just a ridiculous notion to me.  now, i choose to have compassion because i empathize with the human condition, but i also don't deny half of existence because someone told me it was morally wrong once.  i guess if you believe in all the love and light hippy dippy new age stuff, then cool, but i embrace the light and the dark.  in fact, i love darkness.  everything i've ever felt to be "good" and pleasurable has been dark, lunar, feminine, deep, mysterious.  embracing reality means all of reality, not just what the vicar says is good form.

You are right, I will stop referring to the clique, but you can't deny that I get tagged teamed by ummmm... not the clique, but folks that just happen to hang out on the chat room.    Sorry, couldn't resist.

I really don't know what to say to you.  You remind me so much of the old days with Spectral Dragon and the Dark knight clique...I mean group... I mean...crowd.   It's the same argument.  Because I am happy and smiling most of the time, it seems to be hippy, dippy new age stuff but you like dark excrement and that's considered not dippy.  You get your happiness from the darker side of life, which I feel is....boardering on evil.   I don't think my position on that is going to change.

I fear when I hear talk like this that you might be out hurting others and not so much physically, but mentally.  I fear for your children if you have them.  I fear for the people around you that exude light because you seem to have distaste for it.  

That's why our opinions seem to be the same yet, they come from different points.  The points of light and dark.  

[personalreality]

 <---epitome of

i eat children for dinner and floss with kitten guts.

[Naykid]

<---epitome of

i eat children for dinner and floss with kitten guts.

If you don't want to have a serious conversation on this, just let me know.   

[personalreality]

when you want to stop making it personal, just let me know.   

[Naykid]

I'm sorry, that isn't my intent.    How are we suppose to carry on this conversation?  You said this is how you feel, I'm commenting.  Your post is full of I's and Me's  I am confused.  Are we not speaking about YOU and ME?  

[personalreality]

I fear when I hear talk like this that you might be out hurting others and not so much physically, but mentally.  I fear for your children if you have them.  I fear for the people around you that exude light because you seem to have distaste for it.   

line between conversation and personal attack crossed.

done.

[Naykid]

It's now a personal attack??  I'm bowing out before I get banned for nothing. 

[Xanth]

And people wonder why I lock threads. 

In the future (and this goes to EVERYONE), if you're wanting to attack something... attack ideas, not the person. 

Thanks.