Bowling for Columbine

[MJ-12]

gs

[Tisha]

Okay, okay okay - - - see the movie first, THEN comment on it.

I saw the movie.  I laughed, I cried, I cringed, I smiled.   The movie took me throught a wide range of emotions, but left me with more questions than answers.

All I know, though, is:  Guns are not the problem, people are.  And Americans in particular have one big problem:  they are freakin PARANOID.

I highly recommend the movie . . .  see it first, then come back and comment!



Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[the_demigod]

1 issue--guns assure *IMPERSONAL murder/assault of an individual. They give you distance, so that your mind could LIE to itself.

Take away the guns, and criminals are left with knives and baseball bats.

A. its a lot more difficult to kill someone with THOSE tools than with a gun.
B. You have to be face-to-face, and THAT very fact is one that differentiates an opportunist moron who enjoys violence at a distance [even if its a few metres] from a hard-core criminal/gangster who has no problems with staring his victim in the eye while he kills/miams the victim. Much less gangsters in US than opportunist morons, who'd stay at home and drink Bud or eat drugs IF they had no guns to feell powerful THROUGH.


And now for an amusing/weird logical chain:

1. If a human believes his society/state can protect him, he doesn't need weapons.
2. If Americans have so many weapons, they obviously believe in need for self-defense OR they are gun-loving freaks who keep guns for the power-feeling it gives them, and thats a childish attitude.
3. If Americans keep guns, the society/state cannot protect them.
4. If the society/state cannot protect them should it not admit so and go away??

and here's the funny/scary/weird part:

5. If the Americans keep guns AND their society/state cannot protect them AND it doesn't want to go away...are the Americans NOT keeping their guns to protect themselves against an incomptetent, self-serving STATE?

Long live right-wing supremacist US militias.

Vendi, Vidi, Vici, Mucho denero.
[I came, I saw, I conquered, I got paid--my mercenary motto]

[Tisha]

I rest my case

[PeacefulWarrior]

'Columbine' Named Top Documentary of All Time
Thu Dec 12, 6:14 PM ET  Add Movies - Reuters to My Yahoo!

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - "Bowling for Columbine," about gun culture in America, gained momentum on Thursday as it rolls toward the Oscars (news - web sites), racking up the honor of best documentary of all time from the International Documentary Association.


Director Michael Moore (news) also had the No. 3 nonfiction film on the list with his 1989 title, "Roger & Me," in which he took on automaker General Motors Corp. and its then-Chief Executive Roger Smith over a plant closure at Flint, Michigan that left thousands of employees jobless.


Coming in No. 2 was 1988's "The Thin Blue Line," about wrongful convictions in the 1976 murder of a Dallas, Texas policeman, and rounding out the top five were 1994's "Hoop Dreams" about high school basketball players and 1969's "Salesman," about four door-to-door Bible salesmen.


"All these films provide an intimate, behind-the-scenes look at the human condition," said the association's executive director Sandra Ruch. "They make you think about things you might not have ever considered before."


The International Documentary Association, or IDA, was formed in 1982 to serve as a forum for documentary filmmakers, and has since grown into a respected organization for nonfiction films with some 2,700 members in 50 countries.


For the most part, documentaries are relegated to film festivals and cable television channels because the material is generally considered too cerebral for mainstream moviegoers.


But "Columbine" has been an exception, and it is considered a front-runner for this year best documentary Oscar, which is Hollywood's top film honor handed out each year in March.


"Columbine" has already scored well with audiences, tallying $12.9 million at domestic box offices, which for a documentary is a big sum.


Last week, it earned the U.S. National Board of Review (news - web sites) honor as the year's top documentary and won audience choice award at this year's Chicago International Film Festival. Back in May, it was given a special prize at the Cannes Film Festival (news - web sites) in France.


In "Columbine," Moore takes a wry look at the fear that seems to grip the United States and the widespread use of handguns and rifles to seemingly address that fear, even as Americans face violent crimes and murders involving guns.


Moore covers topics ranging from the shootings at Columbine high school in Colorado to the murder of a 6-year-old girl by a 6-year-old boy in Michigan, and he interviews National Rifle Association President Charlton Heston (news).

Oscar nominations are announced on Feb. 11, and the awards will be handed out in a gala ceremony in Los Angeles on March 23.

"Bowling for Columbine" was distributed by United Artists, a division of the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc. film studio.




fides quaerens intellectum

[Mobius]

All I know, though, is: Guns are not the problem, people are. And Americans in particular have one big problem: they are freakin PARANOID.

5. If the Americans keep guns AND their society/state cannot protect them AND it doesn't want to go away...are the Americans NOT keeping their guns to protect themselves against an incomptetent, self-serving STATE?

This talk of needing protection from the state seems to be a uniquely American thing & is definately paranoia, as I don't see other gun entusiasts around the world using this as an excuse for NEEDING to have guns. How does the rest of the world defend themselves against their own governments in those countries with no a no gun policy? Last time I looked, it was not politicians & businessmen being convicted of gun deaths or crimes using guns, it is our fellow man. When was the last time you needed your gun against a politician, businessman, policeman etc? Did your parents grandparents or great grandparents need them to fight off hoards of politicians with guns trying to tell people what they should do?


Americans seem to use this paranoic excuse that the state is gonna get them if they don't have Charlton Hestons gun collection. Or, they need protection from their fellow man because the state isn't doing anything about it or "cannot protect them". Gee, I wonder why? Who has the greater population? The police or civilians? So if those simple mathematics makes it past the test of logic, wouldn't it be reasonable to admit that it's NOT the states fault, it's the peoples, who either vote for politicians, phone in on war polls encouraging attacks on countries of who they know little about (even though there is STILL no proof & the amount of deaths returned has been twice that of september 11), & admit that large armament manufacturers have done an excellent job in their ongoing sales/brainwashing plan to make Americans think they NEED guns.

But don't take my word for it, have a look for yourselves at Israel & palestine. Hundreds of billions of dollars in military aid has done what for the peace process over there? $80 Billion just this year to Israel, even though America is itself, trillions of dollars in debt. Will more machine guns, missiles & tanks make others feel peaceful?  

So would a world where everyone had a gun be a place where you could talk about issues & differences? Or somehow getting rid of the state & creating a state of anarchy would help? Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

Good journeys all

Mobius

[PeacefulWarrior]

Has anyone here seen this film?  I am excited to check it out...it pertains to the thread from a month or so ago that I started "Do You Believe in Guns?"

Here is a synopsis of it for those of you who have hearn nothing about it:

Documentarian Michael Moore delves into the issue of violence in America, traveling across the country to examine the nation's obsession with firearms. His journey takes him to Columbine High School, a bank that gives away a rifle to anyone who opens an account, South Central Los Angeles and NRA President Charlton Heston's home

A couple of postive reviews:
American outlaws
BY JOE LEYDON
Special to The Examiner

   We live in an age when real-life events frequently are far more fantastically absurd or epochally horrific than anything an author or filmmaker would dare contrive. At such a time, even the most inspired satirists are hard-pressed to invent anything more outrageous than yesterday's headlines or last night's newscast.

   So it's up to inquisitive observers like Michael Moore, the droll director-narrator of "Roger & Me" and the rabble-rousing author of "Stupid White Men," to make us laugh -- and, perhaps more important, make us wince -- while we ponder imponderable questions, seek explanations for the inexplicable, and gradually come to accept that the world is even weirder and the problems are more problematic than we suspected.

   Moore is up to his usual tricks in "Bowling for Columbine," his latest free-form filmic essay, which means that, even when he's taking shamelessly cheap shots, he's more often than not on target. His sharp-eyed aim serves him well in a first-person documentary intended as nothing less ambitious than a contemplation of gun culture, violent crime and media-stoked paranoia in the United States.

   The provocative title alludes to a darkly ironic historical footnote: A few hours before they gunned down a teacher and 12 classmates at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold played a few games at an on-campus bowling alley.

   Moore doesn't claim to see any connection between the innocent pastime and the subsequent killing spree. (And to make sure we know he appreciates the magnitude of the tragedy, he gives us a jolting peek at videotapes of Harris and Klebold during their rampage.)

   On the other hand, Moore does find it somehow relevant that the Columbine massacre occurred on April 20, 1999 -- the heaviest day of U.S. bombing in Kosovo. And when he visits the nearby Lockheed Martin plant, 5,000 of whose employees live in the Littleton area, Moore none-too-subtly suggests another connection. Like, maybe when a father constructs nuclear missiles every day, his offspring may conclude it's OK to shoot people.

   Specious reasoning? Perhaps. But, then again, Moore doesn't pretend to offer definitive answers, only pointed questions.

   Like, why does a Michigan bank offer guns to anyone opening a new account? (Moore shows up, deposit slip in hand, then ingenuously inquires: "Isn't it dangerous to be giving away guns in a bank?") Or, why do so many Americans believe violent crime has reached epidemic proportions when FBI statistics indicate a marked decline in murder rates? (Could it be due to "If it bleeds, it leads" TV news?) Why did the National Rifle Association refuse to cancel plans for a pro-gun rally in Colorado just weeks after the Columbine killings? (Near the end of the movie, NRA spokesman Charlton Heston walks away from a conversation with Moore when he realizes he's being -- pardon the pun -- out-gunned.)

   And, by the way: Just why do so many Americans kill so many other Americans?

   Moore, a lifetime NRA member himself, raises serious doubts that all the violence can be blamed on the widespread availability of guns in the United States. After all, he notes, Canadians have equally easy access to firearms, and they don't shoot each other at nearly the same rate. But if it's not guns -- or video games, or violent TV shows, or even Marilyn Manson music -- what's the cause of our colossal body count?

   Moore offers generous servings of food for thought throughout "Bowling for Columbine." And while even people who share his views might dismiss some of what he serves as junk food -- or, worse, skewed statistics -- Moore provides an invaluable service by sparking debate and encouraging thought. Better still, he does all of this, and more, while remaining one of the most savagely hilarious social critics this side of Jonathan Swift.

   E-mail: JoeLeydon@yahoo.com


By BRUCE WESTBROOK
Copyright 2002 Houston Chronicle
In Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore does to the National Rifle Association what he did to the automotive industry in 1989's Roger & Me.

SEE IT NOW
• Watch the trailer
• Visit the Web site  
Moore launches his incendiary documentary condemning America's culture of violence from Columbine High School, where two students shot and killed a dozen classmates and a teacher -- after bowling that morning.

He ties that 1999 tragedy to his hometown of Flint, Mich., which one killer had visited, and where Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh once lived.


In his travels, Michael Moore even found out how to open a bank account and get a free gun in Bowling for Columbine.  
Moore continues to weave Columbine throughout America's fabric, taking a road trip to learn why we have so many more gun murders than other countries.

He takes aim at the U.S. welfare system, consumerism, news media, military manufacturers, willy Clark, Charlton Heston and white people in general.

It's a dishonest, scattershot diatribe from a man who makes no pretense of objectivity. Moore isn't a documentarian so much as a leftist propagandist -- and proud of it.

Even if you share his principles, you may wince at his oversimplifications, leaps of logic and grinding of axes. Though Moore can be amusingly impish -- Bowling is as darkly absurd as it is disturbing -- he turns mean at the end.

In the home of NRA spokesman Heston, Moore accosts his host with a photo of a 6-year-old Flint girl who was killed by a 6-year-old boy in her class, virtually laying blame at his feet. As an addled Heston trudges away, Moore accusingly props the girl's photo against a wall.

Does he accost the boy's uncle about failing to lock up the fatal firearm? No, because that wouldn't serve Moore's agenda.

Nor does he probe the motivations of Columbine's killers. Rather, he witlessly suggests they acted because they lived near a Lockheed Martin arms plant and the United States (NATO, actually) was bombing Kosovo that day. He then interviews shock rocker Marilyn Manson, whose lyrics got some blame for the tragedy.

Moore asks Manson what he'd say to Columbine's kids if given a chance. Manson wisely replies he'd say nothing -- he'd just listen to what they had to say.

Moore doesn't listen much himself, but he does do some good. He takes two youths wounded in the attack -- with bullets bought at Kmart -- to Kmart headquarters, where they insist the retailer stop selling the ammo.

Moore brings along the same TV news crews he condemns elsewhere. Caught in a media spotlight, Kmart diplomatically announces it will phase out the bullets. This is rare dignity in a film where most interviewees dangle in nooses of their own creation.

Bowling has wrenching footage -- some from Columbine surveillance cameras -- but Moore often attacks with dark humor. As in the anti-nuke documentary The Atomic Cafe, naive archival clips and twisted cartoons spark bitter laughter.

He also personalizes gun violence. Moore grew up as a marksman and joined the NRA. He sees gun use as a byproduct of conditioning and fear.

Moore places some blame on broadcast news, showing that while crime rates dropped, violent TV news rose dramatically. Unlike the calm Canadians he interviews, agitated Americans see threats whenever they turn on the tube. Sept. 11 didn't help.

Moore's movie may not help, either; he's better at fingering problems than finding solutions. But though he only scratches the surface, at least he provides a strong itch to explore more.

Grade: B




fides quaerens intellectum