this is actually a question that can be answered somewhat by the webmaster because they can usually track where a person is surfing in from. i guess it can be hidden also. i remember someone on art bells show saying which govn. domains were looking at his site.
Yeah it is possible to trace if some one is open about it. But a hacker can get in and out with out you knowing he was there. Or you think his is coming from 10 different locations.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
what "recruitment" are you talking about? i have never heard such a thing by any conspirators (though i have at times thought it might be kinda cool).
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Well it is highly known that at least the US Gov. investigates many paranormal activties. And they have done many, many experiments psi-related in hopes of creating a better soldier or getting the edge on the enemy. So do they look to identify people out of thier own ranks or do they look to recuite people off the streets who show promise? I mean where do they get the people for this? I know that on many of the tests they have done they have used the unknowing soldier but on the more advanced test like the recently acknowladged remote viewing, http://www.remoteviewing.com/, they would need some what of talented or gift individuals. So where do they get them?
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
ahhh. i see what you mean now cainam.
i THINK (just a completely wild guess that is just as likely wrong as it is right) it might be that they contact persons who are prominent in the "paranormal" community and ask them. or they might get reports of "weird" things going on, and then go to investigate them, then find out the "weird" things are being caused by a (or many) person(s). so they then "recruit" (or maybe force into recruitment) said person(s). k, so maybe i'm just a weirdo :P
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Funny you should mention this as I spend a lot of time on the net for work and since I joined this site I've had the first ever attempt to hack my system whilst I was in the forums, luckily my norton firewall stopped them but my trace program came up short of finding them but all lights flashed to this site, I told admin and they said it could have come from anywhere but after five years working on the web to have your first hack come through whilst here it kinda freaks me out.
Hey kakkarot we should put our CV's online.....what do ya think?
Alchimiste
what's a CV? (i don't recognize many abbreviations) :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
CV is an abbreviation for the latin word Curriculum Vitae which is the word for your resume or job experience. I think you would be ideal for psi-ops as a hit man.
Alchimiste
I doubt they have the manpower to search every website as small as this one.. It still would be a secret op. in their eyes, however I know they have contacted proffessionals (like David Oates regarding Reverse Speech) with lots of knowledge on paranormality(word?) :P.
- Ashfo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I doubt they have the manpower to search every website as small as this one.. "
That's why they make computers. The US Gov. has many computers geared towards the tracking of information and who is doing what. For example. One would normally think that going to the library was a normal, safe, everyday function of people. Well it is normal, it is an every day function but it is not wholly safe. In every public library if you want to get a book you have to give them certain key information, which is them databased. On to this file goes every book you ever barrow from the library. Certain types of individuals tend to read or look up certain types of information and often barrow the books to do furhter research at home, where they feel safe. The US Gov has a list of books that are flagged and every time an individual barrows one of those books the library database relays this information to another database controlled by the gov. In turn should an individual aquire X amount of flags the gov computer turns around and seeks to aquire a list of all the books that you have checked out. Based on this the computer is capable of giving a base psycological profile on you. This is just one example.
I have another. I do not knwo if they are still doing(probably are) but for a long time the gov was running a computer to track and record phone conversations. Now the normal is considered phone taping but this goes way beond that. The computer basically listens to all conversations for certain key words. Then it records a segment, if within that segment other certain key words pop up the computer then records the whole conversation for further analisis. So why regular phone taps you may ask. The local gov.s don't have the access to this information so they have to use regular means. Also if the intent of the Fedral Gov. is to bring a person to trail the need for legal phone tapping is required. However this is not done for legal phone tapping nor is done to bring people to trail. Watch a spy flick. Why do you think that there is the need for secure lines, or certain information just isn't ralayed over the phone at all? Even if they know it isn't bugged?
The Us gov was also running a prject not too long ago with an email sniffer but the word got out and they suspended it. But with recent laws made in the US it should be back up to full operation now. These same laws double the amount the normal person get in the way of spam or junk emails since there is no longer legal action you can take unless repeated attempts to stop the mail have been made. But even then you need to prove it and actually talk to an individual about it. I forget the name of the program the run but it ws mentioned several times.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
alchimiste: little ol' me? a psi op? COOL! do i get to blow **** up? ;)
i don't see why you would think i would make a good psi op though - cause i think its cool?
~kakkarot
___
Man in Shadows: "Fair enough, Dr. Chen. Mr. Killum? Clean House."
http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020610
Secret of Secrets
Well.. I can't believe that they track every single phonecall and the computer analyzes the voices of every single phonecall... and then there are enough operators to manually go through and have the knowledge of what the US gov. wants.... all being a secret.
You'd need thousands and thousands of workers.... and I believe they have trackers tracking websites... But people reading them all? I mean honestly what is really that interesting to them here? We're not experts or pros... just people looking for answers and "mucking around".
- Ashfo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Naturally certain things that even if flagged are dropped almost as quickly because of other criteria not being met. But it is not as if that information is gone through every day. It gets stored, then when certain situations arise the information is presented by the computer as a possibility. Every thing becomes another file. So they look up Joe Bob Bullhead because they think he may be trying to kill some one imprtant. So they pull up his file. They enter in a few more things to look to see if there is any basis for that assumption. Next the computer spits out a handfull of books that are related to the subject and a couple of phone calls where it was mentioned and say an email that is requesting info on a riffle. So they follow him and see if it is actually going on. If it is blamo they have him.
90% of a persons life is recorded on computers. You name it the information can be found. You may be thinkning that you have never seen a computer capablie of this. But then you also must remember that, at least with the US Gov, they are normally 10-15 years more technilogicall advanced as the general poulace. If this was not so the term "Military Grade" for equipment and such would not exist. So how does this kind of information get out. Easy, people retire, computers get hacked, and some times people have to violate thier personal morals and turn around feel the need to repay for it. And sometimes it is just money. And as far as personel go the Fed Gov has hundreds of thousands of people working for it, and this does not include the average armed forces.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
90% of my life can't be on a computer: even my best friend (who knows more about me than anyone else) only knows about half of all there is to know about me. :) and even if the gov't did collect all the different things about me that i have EVER told ANYONE, that only amounts to about 75% of all there is to know about me. :)
there is a good reason why i use the sig "Arcanum Arcanorum", and it is just cause normal people don't get me. :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
i'm sorry, i forgot what my sig was in that last post. i thought it was arcanum arcanorum because arcanum arcanorum means Secret of Secrets in latin.
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Hi, all
Interesting topic. Yeah, it all gets databased. Or at least what is important. It has been known for a long time. For the US, look at buildings and the layout of Washington DC. Let me see, the pentagon, symbol for mars, statue of him in the garden. If you are going to have an edge....
The Magickal wars between the nazi's and the French are fairly well known. I don't think that slipped by the various govs after the war. Also to much animosity for the various people in high power, we all know what can be done. I would say they are stupid if there is not some type of protection for those people.
I don't know that all sites are tracked, but I would bet the more serious ones are, large or small. Remote viewing is a serious concern for the defense & secret agencies.
Do they do studies? Well, they have all the time, money, information, machines, and designer drugs to carry it out. If Radionics machines and programs are available now, what is the technology like 20 years advanced?
I came across something on alt.magic a while back. Someone was describing there (percieved) experience with the "Men In Black" (I like the term MIBs). Involved remote viewing and projecting, and designer drugs. Claims he still gets weird reactions when he does certain types of spells.
Kakkarot You would be ideal with your energy training, and an assasin personality ready to go. And the fact you think it would be cool.
Lets see just by looking at your profile there is a handfull of info there. And that is the kind of info I mean.
How many books have you checked out of a library?
Have credit card? Ever used for anything?
How many e-mail accounts do you have?
Is all that information fake?
Do you have a phone? Cell Phone? Pager?
Car? Drivers license? Tax ID? Employment records? High School info? Collage? Home owner? Magazine subscriptions? Your internet provider. And so on and on.
All this information can be used to create a profile of a person. With extream accuracy. These are the things that people do not think about. So much can be detirmed by this information alone. Spending habits, how many times you have moved or changed jobs, your level of education.
Like I said even your profile here, just by reading that some one can tell your a "hopeless romantic". But don't worry so am I. If you ever get a chance talk to a profiler, or a person who does this kind of stuff for a living, or a psycologist and ask them how much they can learn of a person from this kind of information. You might be amazed.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
thanks for the vote of confidence ides.
cainam:
How many books have you checked out of a library? only about 3 or 4 dozen (rarely anything to do with the supernatural)
Have credit card? no
How many e-mail accounts do you have? three or four
Is all that information fake? all except my ligit one at school
Do you have a phone? Cell Phone? Pager? no (the people i am staying with do, but it ain't under my name), no, no.
Car? no
Drivers license? learner's from years ago
Tax ID? probably, but they aren't going to learn much about the REAL me from that
Employment records? yes, but mundane, manual labour jobs only (except for my stay in the military, which is no longer officially recognized :P )
High School info? who doesn't?
Collage? university level, private school
Home owner? yeah right. i wish i had that much money.
Magazine subscriptions? none
Your internet provider? no modem on my comp at home, so i have to use school :)
like i said, there isn't much on me. for anyone to get to know the REAL me and my real abilities, they would have to do personal survaillance. so i can just fall out through a loop :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
my wife is a librarian and i will check to see if she knows anything about certain books being redtagged. i find that part hard to believe. though with enough computers almost anything could be watched and analyzed.however when it comes to the people in the government who oversee all this i think they are incompetent.
You are supposed to think that, it is cultivated. Though some are, they are the ones that get the press.
so cainam, how about you?
How many books have you checked out of a library?
Have credit card? Ever used for anything?
How many e-mail accounts do you have?
Is all that information fake?
Do you have a phone? Cell Phone? Pager?
Car?
Drivers license?
Tax ID?
Employment records?
High School info?
Collage?
Home owner?
Magazine subscriptions?
Your internet provider?
"inquisitive minds want to know" :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
"like i said, there isn't much on me. for anyone to get to know the REAL me and my real abilities, they would have to do personal survaillance. so i can just fall out through a loop :)"
Naturally the system is avoidable if litle effort is put forth. And yes also peolpe like yourself "may" fall through some of the cracks. But eventually they get everyone. It is far from a perfect system but the fact that it is being done is alarming.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
i'm not concerned. it's not like they are going to come up to me one day and say "join or die", right? :) who cares what they "know" about me? it isn't like they can use it against me. i have safeguards in case of such situations. :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
I dunno it was just something I was thinking. I am fairly sure that it does not happen in that manner. (join or die part.) But you never know, you meet a person, you help them with something, and this leads to that, and you find yourself 5 years down the road working for the Gov. Things can be odd that way sometimes.
For those that are great there are primarily 2 kinds. The ones that are famous and the ones you never hear about. The ones that are famous are protected by that. They can not be removed because too many people know them. However the ones that you never hear about have little defense. Often through some what hiding thier ablilities do they protect themselves. I often wonder what would happen if, perhaps one of us, was too good and oo open with what they could do. With out the protection and help of a larger group or guild one could become a target for such things.
Just a thought.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
Oy, Oy, OY. When will people realize that they are NOWHERE NEAR as interesting to the Government as they presume?
The Government has bigger fish to fry than to hunt down psychics and wannabes. The itty-bitty Psi programs that go on do not put a lot of energy into recruiting . . . otherwise they'd be visiting my office because I am right in their faces. . . with a "reputation" (inadvertent, I swear), so it's not like I'm hiding . . . and all on a Federal installation devoted to advanced warfare technologies. Heaven knows that all you have to do is search on "astrology" to find yourself inundated with pop-up ads from people who claim psychic powers. I bet the Government doesn't hurt for volunteers.
And all that impressive surveillance technology? It is focused on finding international terrorists and other assorted bad-guys. And they've hardly got the time or budget to accomplish THAT.
If anyone is looking up your profile it is probably to try to SELL you something like an automobile or a long distance plan. Even not having a lot of data on your profile gives you a profile. The REAL enemy is Market Research. Now THAT entity is worth messing with . . . . I have fun messing with them. Once I fooled with them enough to get on a mailing list meant for multimillionaires. Interesting!
I think it's hard for people to accept the fact than they are nobodies. It's part of a self-indulgent, narcissistic streak that a LOT of people have (including myself). So relax. Lose those ideas about a made-for-TV life of Psi Warfare Research. Embrace your anonymity instead. All this conspiracy-theorizing is probably interfering with your psychic abilities anyway, and you don't want THAT, do you?
NOBODIES UNITE
peace,
tisha
PS: Did you know that books on witchcraft and the paranormal are the most STOLEN books from public libraries? Most people just walk out with them rather than check them out. And they don't return them. Many libraries won't carry a lot of paranormal material for this very reason. It's not that they have a problem with the material . . . its just that they are tired of getting ripped off.
Hey, all
Tisha, I have to agree with you. Unless you do something to generally annoy them, or cause yourself to be percieved as a threat, they really do not care.
Tisha
I like your post, in my work I see a few psychics, and their biggest problem is not dodging psi investiagtors but in getting their crappy psychotic life together, relationships. In fact relationships is far more damaging than any shoot me up MIB. As for being traced and hounded, it is the market researchers that do that, as Tisha says. But then, I might be wrong too.
Astralc
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
www.shoal.net.au/~astralc
"The marriage of the ancient arts of astrology, taoism, tantra and the modern science of psychology."
the internet is one area where they can track your activity for example doubleclick ads network was doing that and still is doing if they see you visiting a specific category ie say kids stuff then they'll later on start throwing kid stuff ads on other sites that show doubleclick ads etc... what is freaky is this microchip thing and they say the military are the guinea pigs to test this thing ie their national id and it can also be used as a debit card. So imagine they track everything you do, even locate where you are (if they have GPS technology in the future) at any point of time. Oh gee we wouldn't need a large police force to keep crime down and wouldn't need officers to give tickets, they'll send it in the mail. All this boils down to is automation and job cutting. They call it the new world order, the only thing that I don't like is they have problems with wars/terrorism and want to become one government in the future, one religion, one education system, one economy etc.. How can you force people to follow a new system when everyone has their own set of beliefs/thoughts? The catholic church which is like 1billion christians hasn't changed or doesn't plan on changing to adopt to the new one belief system. I think the same with the muslims to which is the second highest population in religion.
Well dang it was just a thought.
I personally am not worried or paranoid I simply playing out a thought.
But, be alert.......the world needs more letrs.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.
i'm a lert. isn't everybody? :)
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Hey
Maybe most people posting on this site are, or are becoming. The vast majority seem very comfortable in their little filtered version of reality.
Kinda sarcastic, I know. But true from my experiences.
Associated Press Writer
Monday, June 24, 2002; 5:38 PM
WASHINGTON –– The FBI is visiting libraries nationwide and checking the reading records of people it suspects of having ties to terrorists or plotting an attack, library officials say.
The FBI effort, authorized by the antiterrorism law enacted after the Sept. 11 attacks, is the first broad government check of library records since the 1970s when prosecutors reined in the practice for fear of abuses.
The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment Monday, except to note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that President Bush signed last October.
Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent.
"Patron information is sacrosanct here. It's nobody's business what you read," said Kari Hanson, director of the Bridgeview Public Library in suburban Chicago.
Hanson said an FBI agent came seeking information about a person, but her library had no record of the person. Federal prosecutors allege Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity based in the Chicago suburb, has ties to Osama bin Laden's terror network
The University of Illinois conducted a survey of 1,020 public libraries in January and February and found that 85 libraries had been asked by federal or local law enforcement officers for information about patrons related to Sept. 11, said Ed Lakner, assistant director of research at the school's Library Research Center.
The libraries that reported FBI contacts were nearly all in large urban areas.
In Florida, Broward County library director Sam Morrison said the FBI had recently contacted his office. He declined to elaborate on the request or how many branch libraries were involved.
"We've heard from them and that's all I can tell you," Morrison said. He said the FBI specifically instructed him not to reveal any information about the request.
The library system has been contacted before. A week after the Sept. 11 attacks, the FBI subpoenaed Morrison to provide information on the possible use of computer terminals by some of the suspected hijackers in the Hollywood, Fla., area.
In October, investigators revisited the county's main library in Fort Lauderdale and also checked a regional library in Coral Springs.
At least 15 of the 19 hijackers had Florida connections.
The process by which the FBI gains access to library records is quick and mostly secret under the Patriot Act.
First, the FBI must obtain a search warrant from a court that meets in secret to hear the agency's case. The FBI must show it has reason to suspect that a person is involved with a terrorist or a terrorist plot – far less difficult than meeting the tougher legal standards of probable cause, required for traditional search warrants or reasonable doubt, required for convictions.
With the warrant, FBI investigators can visit a library and gain immediate access to the records.
Judith Krug, the American Library Association's director for intellectual freedom, said the FBI was treading on the rights it is supposed to be upholding.
"It's unfortunate because these records and this information can be had with so little reason or explanation," Krug said. "It's super secret and anyone who wants to talk about what the FBI did at their library faces prosecution. That has nothing to do with patriotism."
Krug tells worried librarians who call that they should keep only the records they need and should discard records that would reveal which patron checked out a book and for how long.
She is frustrated by the hate mail she says she receives when she speaks out against the Patriot Act.
"People are scared and they think that by giving up their rights, especially their right to privacy, they will be safe," Krug said. "But it wasn't the right to privacy that let terrorists into our nation. It had nothing to do with libraries or library records."
Some libraries said they will still resist government efforts to obtain records.
Pat McCandless, assistant director for public services for Ohio State University's libraries, said, "State law and professional ethics say we do not convey patron information and that is still our stance.
"To the best of our ability, we would try to support patron confidentiality," she said.
Hermits Unite
Hi all
Virtually every phone call, fax, email & text message sent anywhere in the world is captured & analysed by ECHELON, which is controlled mainly by the NSA.
Typing those words may or may not trigger a flag, but you would hope & think that these people are responsible enough to realise this is a peaceful forum & website & we have no terrorist tendencies.
Echelon is a global spy system operated in conjunction with General Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) in the UK, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) in Canada, the Australian Defence Security Directorate (DSD) & the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) in New Zealand.
In 1992 the London Obsever reported that Echelon dictionaries targeted Amnesty International, Greenpeace & even Christian ministeries.
They definately have the manpower, technology & capital, to know a great deal about all of us, but I guess if you are not doing anything wrong you should have nothing to worry about & wouldn't expect to be hacked unless you wrote words that sent flags up to certain peoples interests.
There are other ways than trying to remove yourself from the information network.
Good journeys all, sleep tight.
Mobius
Here is a good one for all you conspiricy people.
How many web sights like this one, that deal with these kinds of things, do you think that various world governments are watching? Possibly as recrutment start for thier various projects. (the ones we all know they are doing but won't admit)
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.