How to do something without a reason?

[Seeker of Matter]

Seeker of Matter



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject:  How to do something without a reason?    Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Sometimes I reflect on things that I have accomplished. I read through some of the essays I have written I school and I think for my self "hmm, you have got good point in that essay - bravo".

I also remember the times in gym where I have totally over performed in terms of strength and endurance and once again I think "hey you did very well"

But now as I think about it. I am pretty sure that it was not me who did it. But the expectation of others - the fear of failure that pushed me through - like I was only a lifeless cadaver a sort an excuse for the actions of others.

That thought did not please me. so I wanted to see I would be able to do something totally without motivation -totally without pressure from others - something that I in no way HAD to do.


Firstly I noticed that it is actually really hard to find something you can do that has no meaning at all. Mysteriously I could always find some sort of meaning in the actions I intended to do.
I thought about exercise. That is something I have NEVER been into. The only times have been in school where I was forced to run in order not to fall behind of the others - the group mentality I guess. But as I prepared to run I found that I simply could not drag my body outside. I was greatly shocked to find that I lacked such a huge amount of will that I was unable to run.

A couple of days later I thought that I wanted to read in my biology book from last year - I did not have that class anymore so I did not HAVE TO read it. I started reading but I gave up as the text was getting pretty advanced and I was unable to understand it. Normally I would have forced myself to read it more thoroughly but now as I had no need to - I didn't.

I attempted to do other "things" without any outside motivation except the one in my self. And the results where as above - either I could not do it or I would do it very sloppily.

I was wondering if this applies to other people? (yes you can wake up now hehe)
How do we motivate ourselves without anybody's help?
Or is this perhaps something that I just have to accept. Topics that I do not find interesting (natural motivation?) are not meant to be understood by me? Is this what happens when you try to move away from your destiny?

Last edited by Seeker of Matter on Tue May 17, 2005 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scorpyn



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 83
Location: Sweden
   
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject:  Re: How to do something without a reason?    Reply with quote
Seeker of Matter wrote:
(yes you can wake up now hehe)

Doh, I was just about to go to sleep Shocked

First of all, when you go to school you are not deciding what to do yourself, you're told what to do.

If you consider what you're told to do to be important (as usually is the case about school), then it's fairly easy to get motivated enough.

If you decide for yourself that "I should exercise", or "I should read a bit in this book", then you're not specific enough and you don't actually give yourself a reason to do it.

If you want to really accomplish something, set goals for yourself and follow those goals. In the beginning it might be very difficult, but if you don't set unrealistic or simply boring and stupid goals it should be doable.

This has nothing to do with moving away from your destiny, in fact I'd rather say that it's probably part of your destiny to learn to do things without people telling you to do it. You'll have to learn it sooner or later anyway Wink
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CaCoDeMoN



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PostPosted: Yesterday at 8:05 am    Post subject:      Reply with quote
Quote:

I was wondering if this applies to other people? (yes you can wake up now hehe)

No. How boring the world would be if everything we do we would do because of expectations of others and fear? I am creating a computer game not for money or to show how good at programming I am, but only for fun. I think that your problem is that you never learned to do things just because you want to, without external motivation. This is the problem schools are frequently creating, but can be fixed with a bit of strong will.
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AstralSailor



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Yesterday at 11:55 am    Post subject:      Reply with quote
CaCoDeMoN wrote:
Quote:

I was wondering if this applies to other people? (yes you can wake up now hehe)

No. How boring the world would be if everything we do we would do because of expectations of others and fear? I am creating a computer game not for money or to show how good at programming I am, but only for fun. I think that your problem is that you never learned to do things just because you want to, without external motivation. This is the problem schools are frequently creating, but can be fixed with a bit of strong will.


Yes that's true Smile
Many schools does not give the will to the kids or show them in any form how fun it can be to do thing just for the cause of fun. They simply tell them this is good for you we know that and no matter how boring it might seem.. If you hold on you will grow up and get a good job become rich and that's good. I may exaggerate a little but this is much of the case i think.
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Souljah333



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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Location: Far(south)East
   
PostPosted: Yesterday at 3:32 pm    Post subject: icon_impressed     Reply with quote
Dear Seeker: That might be the most profound and insightful thing I've ever read in this forum...YES I believe it is!!!

I was reading something not that long about "deprogramming" yourself. It was pretty basic...laugh when you're "suppose" to cry/cry when you're "suppose" to laugh, etc...till you hack in! I think you've tapped into something that is stellar, but most won't look at it. It's too close to screwing with their belief system, and who they "think" they are. People get freaked out when they realize they're nothing more than PUPPETS. Wink That's something that really turns me on about the "Viva La Bam" boys...that they do crazy excrement that's pointless. It's so refreshing! If I ever have kids...I want them to be just like that! It's amazing to me how truly unmotivated I am in my own company...I think it has something to do with taking a breather from all the BS. It's bizarre how different my function becomes when I'm alone, and then someone enters the room.
Do you ever feel like you're on television? Like some kind of residue from that "expectation" thing?!? How you can motivate yourself by pretending that you're in others company???
I catch myself doing that all the time, and it's spooky.

Let me know of your progress...oh Wise One (seriously)
333
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CaCoDeMoN



Joined: 22 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Yesterday at 4:32 pm    Post subject:      Reply with quote
Quote:

Do you ever feel like you're on television? Like some kind of residue from that "expectation" thing?!? How you can motivate yourself by pretending that you're in others company???
I catch myself doing that all the time, and it's spooky.

Yes. Maybe living motivated only by your own expectations is the true way to happiness? Once I've started meditating on who I was and I found out that I don't really want to be computer programmer, nearly all my goals changed too. And I am much happier with who I am now. The change was even more drastic in my friend, he thought that he wants to be computer programmer too, but discovered that he would not be happy with that job, and wants to write book reviews after he finishes his education.
Living to fulfill the ambitions of others is not funny at all.
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Seeker of Matter



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Yesterday at 5:25 pm    Post subject:      Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Hey thanks the replies, it is great to see the activity in here - gets the job done Wink

Okay - this will be my first try with the quotes so don't laugh!!

Quote:
This is the problem schools are frequently creating, but can be fixed with a bit of strong will.


I totally agree. a bit of strong will is all I need. but where are you supposed to find that will. I personally cannot make myself want something. as much as I try to focus on task and say for my self "I WANT TO DO THAT!!" it just does not light the spark.

I also think I am a bit confused of the concepts of will and desire. I remember as a young child when I desired something. a new toy or to go and see those great big aquariums with sharks that were fed and so on. I can remember how I felt - and it was a very strong feeling - I really wanted to have/do those things. but it is as if I have grown numb to the excitement as the years have passed and that is simply put annoying!

is will an induced desire then :S ? or is it something more pure, and is desire then impure? hmmm

I cannot stop having the thought about the afterlife - the life in the astral ( I have never AP'ed so I am only writing from what I have read) you are not supposed to have any sort of need there - not like in the physical like hunger and thirst. I wonder if I would just go and disappear like a blown out candle as I am unlikely to do anything I do not need to do. and if you do not have any needs in the astral.... I guess I am pretty f to the ucked...

Quote:
How you can motivate yourself by pretending that you're in others company???
I catch myself doing that all the time, and it's spooky.


I have sometimes done that. but I find it to be some sort of a hologram of the "evil" I am trying to escape in the first place.

But now as I think about it I guess that I would be rather powerful if I somehow was able stimulate myself into wanting something with the utmost intensity. I could accomplish much. But it is as if it is already programmed into me what I want and what I don't. is this like trying to fly without wings?

Why can I just not jump three times and say a magic word?
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Souljah333



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Today at 12:52 am    Post subject: icon_fight     Reply with quote
apathy!
do you ever remember scream and crying and falling down in a fit of rage in any public place...just because you were so adamant on getting what you wanted?!? working it for all it was worth. i can't remember what that was like. where that passion went. there is something to older beliefs...Hinduism, Buddhism, etc...that see "desire" as something bad/weak. and will is very important for fighting this. have you ever fasted? that could be something you do that doesn't involve doing anything. Wink but it does utilize will. will to do nothing. i think that's where a lot of the mystic head of towards. i guess if you can first master doing nothing (or more appropriately NOT REACTING) then it might be easier to steer around the manipulation of expectations. (expectations are also something that Hindus and Buddhist let go of as the believe they do nothing but hinder performance) (a lot people think it's just about letting go of possession...but it's about letting go of everything).

GypsyWanderer mentioned something about Dennis Wier and his TRANCE research (i think he actually got in contact with him for a consultation, but the forum was shut down so i haven't heard about it yet).
You should definitely take a look at the site, because it talks about how we're all in a trance all the time, and how to break the zombie state. http://www.trance.edu/

Quote:
But now as I think about it I guess that I would be rather powerful if I somehow was able stimulate myself into wanting something with the utmost intensity. I could accomplish much.
WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS HIGH MAGIC! INTENTIONS! YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. YOU HAVE ALREADY OPENED YOUR MIND TO SOMETHING VERY POWERFUL. I'M NOT EVEN SURE IF YOU REALIZE WHAT PATH IT IS YOU'RE ON?!? IT TAKES A VERY CLEAR MIND TO CONSIDER THESE THINGS. IF YOU CAN STAY CLEAR, SIMPLE...FORCE YOUR WILL UPON YOURSELF...YOU COULD ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING YOU WISHED. FOCUS.
IT WOULD BE WELL WORTH IT!

and keep as posted per request
333 Wink

[Souljah333]

man this SUCKS!

it seems like everything i wrote has been lost. i have no idea where to being. suddenly i'm confused (or more so than usual) oh well. change is good i guess...but not...really this sucks...really, really sucks!

thanks for letting me purge a little. this thread feels like a lone piece of wood floating round in the ocean after a massive storm. didn't think it was going to be this severe. thanks for something to grab onto

I feel completely obliterated

blessings
333

[Seeker of Matter]

Well I can tell you that writing this takes a lot of will power to do. For some unknown reason my head feels like somebody have taken out my brain and bashed it with a bat filled with rusty nails... well I guess everybody feels like that some times Smile

Anyway.....

have you ever fasted? That could be something you do that doesn't involve doing anything. Wink but it does utilize will. Will to do nothing.

Well I am positive that I will have no reason what so ever to fast. I actually cannot find anything that would motivate me into starving myself... except that you recommended it (damn you!!) Wink

But I wonder if it is what I am looking for. Fasting means doing nothing - staying passive. For some reason I come to think of it as being a step closer to death as starving yourself will at some point make you die - death must be the ultimate will test then - "do you have the will not to live??" oh that would be the extreme and - as far as I can see right now - undesirable outcome hehe.

Would it be wrong of me to think of "doing something/creating something without a reason" to be somewhat of a godly act? Lets say that there was no physical matter to begin with. Then why would somebody/something create it if one was not forced to. One would make physical matter for no reason. That is pretty interesting I guess.

And to the thing about Buddhism. I do not agree with the philosophy. What would the point of not wanting anything be? Of removing all the symptoms of being a feeling human being? I cannot help but to see that as some sort of death imitation. And I cannot see the idea in that as we are all going to die some time and then there will be nothing to desire. And if we were not meant to desire... why are we here then? To learn to be closer to (physical) death?

I find that the times that I feel most alive is when I want something - even though it is external motivation that drives me to desire.

Wow.... am I just afraid of dying then? Is that my problem? Am I afraid of letting go of the "pleasures" that this world has to offer like desire? Then I guess I have fallen to the "dark side" (yes you guessed it, I have just watched the new Star Wars movie Smile)

Any thoughts on my thoughts?

Edit: seems astral pulse was down right after I "re-posted" my thread. that kind of stopped me from posting my RE-ply... but better late than never. Wrote this yesterday and btw. my head feels much better today

I also think of these few as some sort of storm. though this storm seemed to have it humours sides as well. I at least laughed my *ss off reading that book recommendation post. I guess that we are all human after all - and that is nice to know. At least it was entertaining

[Souljah333]

i think that's sort of the basis for hindu/buddhist beliefs (but i'm no expert). that life is about suffering. they think of life kind of like a curse and wade through it slowly/patiently to get to the next point/a better place...and yeah, that does seem really weird. but i think a "fear of death" is a huge underlying current for most. you made a good point about that in relation to the fasting, but fasting is a wonderful thing! makes one feel ALIVE.
i do fourteen day fasts every once in a while, and when you get to that point you feel like you could just keep going forever. the first 3 days are rough. drink lots of watered down juice, broth is okay, or a lemon/maple syrup/cayenne pepper drink is usually what i do (called the "master cleanse"...you might be amazed at how "alert" it makes you feel. not only are you giving your body a break, but you detox a great deal. your body warms up because it's burning fat stores, and your metabolism rises. i hear better, see better, think clearer, etc. like all the senses are rejuvenated. the world becomes beautiful, like a grimy veil has been lifted. after the 5th or 6th day you don't even think about food...and when you start eating again you need so little. it's eye-opening for sure, and i think it's a nice thing to do for our bodies (we can be so thoughtlessly cruel to them). it's a show of respect and faith in our own ability.

there's that article on that scientist (of late) that hasn't eaten anything in four years, and claims to live off of sunlight. there was another article on a guru guy in india that lives in some cave, and claims to have not eaten or drank anything in something like ten years (but i can't find either of the links)

333

[Seeker of Matter]

I must say it sounds amazing!! I almost want to do it know. Just to see what it is like!!!

I hear better, see better, think clearer, etc. like all the senses are rejuvenated. the world becomes beautiful, like a grimy veil has been lifted

For me it sounds like that you are high or something when you are fastening hehe. But I guess you are not. I would love to read those articles about it. I have a little trouble in believing fastening to be good.

What exactly does fastening involve? I understand that you are allowed to drink stuff. But what then when I put my high fat steak in the blender and mix it with my 1.5 liter Coca Cola ? sorry - I just had to write that
But I would like to know some more about you detox menu. What you can and cannot eat/drink.

i refuse to believe that your body becomes more energized. are you not extremely slow and tired when you are fastening? or are you somehow defying the laws of the physical?
When I want to think clear I drink a lot of Coke. It makes me think clearer move faster and it makes my tiredness go away.

there's that article on that scientist (of late) that hasn't eaten anything in four years, and claims to live off of sunlight. there was another article on a guru guy in india that lives in some cave, and claims to have not eaten or drank anything in something like ten years (but I can't find either of the links) Confused

Hehe that is just great then I saw the recipe on eternal life somewhere here, but I have ALSO lost that link - oh bugger

But I would actually like to feel how it is like to have ones body detoxed and if fastening is so wonderful then perhaps I will try it. Not while I have the exams but perhaps in my summer vacation.

[Ben K]

We cannot banish dangers, but we can banish fears. We must not demean life by standing in awe of death.

-David Sarnoff

[Souljah333]

you ARE high in sense, but the most natural high i've ever experienced. everything is beautiful, nothing is black and white...which is a HUGE turn on for me. the last fast i did i packed up a lunch, beach umbrella & art supplies on a drizzly day and was planning on heading to hunting island (state park) for the afternoon. i never got out of the parking lot...i stopped under a big live oak and stared at an overflowing dumpster amidst flowering jasmine for hours. it was perfect in every sense. i can't explain it.

i would incredibly interested to know if just keeps getting better, as in the guy that hasn't eaten in 4 yrs. or if plateaus? some people can get addicted to it and in that case of course it can go bad. too much carrot juice can kill you too! humans have that weird gene that wants to take it to the mat?!? go figure (anyone heard anything on that human gene the japanese have modified into rice?!? that can't be a good thing). there are on the other hand a lot people that suggest fasting one day out the week to give you body a rest. i prefer the once a month method...though i've been lazy lately. it was 95 degrees here yesterday and i can feel an entire winters full of yuck in my system...so a good "spring cleaning" would be nice.

it absolutely becomes more energized (i would never lie to you). the first three days as i said are rough...and you can feel run down. if you keep yourself busy it's nothing. i wouldn't suggest starting on the weekend when you've got nothing to do. it would be great if you could start it a week before your exams! but if it's first time...i can see where you'd be hesitant. you would be amazed at how your system rewards you, esp. when things become less sluggish...you're burning your fat stores as i said and there really is no better nutrients than that. the maple syrup/lemon & pepper drink is suppose to have all the carbs/aminos/minerals that your body needs, but don't take my word for it...

...i find this site really useful it has a lot about cleansing/fasting and a host of related crap. this particular link is for the master cleanse forum.
http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=478&t=49402.3

333

[Seeker of Matter]

Hey thanks for that link. I quickly read through some it. people are really into this fastening business

The only time I have "fasted" was when I had hangovers that were so severe that I would puke if I just drank some water. I didn't eat the entire day!! I remember that I felt extremely slow..... But it was nice. Perhaps if I fasted without the hangovers it would be a better experience?

So what recipe did you use? And was that syrup lemonade drink thingy all that you consumed? And what about after you finished fastening, did you not put on lot weight? I easily get fat so I am watching whatever I eat... or let me rephrase.... I feel very guilty when eating fatty foods Nevertheless I have lost about 2 kilos so I am down to 98 kilos. I don't want to have 3 ciphers on my weight anymore hehe

So does this result in anything ells than just you feeling better or will you actually be better at hmmm..... your life I suppose afterwards? I could certainly use a clearer and more focused mind. Perhaps if I starved my mind by watching the paint peel off my wall it would evolve

And hey I am from Denmark so your oz's and pounds will be lost on me. I do liters and milliliters and kilos and grams.  

I found this on the website:  

keep seeing all these different figures for making the lemonade in bulk and I have no idea where folks are getting their figures from or if maybe they're just very bad at math ;+D. Below is the "correct" amounts for making bulk quantities of the lemonade.

To make 30 oz or approx 1 quart (32 oz) 3 drinks

24 oz water

3oz lemon Juice

3oz maple syrup

3/10ths tsp cayenne


For 60 oz approx half gallon(64oz) - 6 drinks - Multiply quart recipie x2

For 120 oz approx 1 gallon (128 oz) = 12 drinks - Multiply quart recipie x4

Is that the one or do you have a better one?

and then i also found this (play the "Darth Vader" music):

Stage 5 (Breaking the Fast)

Bla bla bla bla. This can cause an instant bowel movement upon eating followed by intense diarrhea(!!!!!). If the symptoms are too uncomfortable, an enema will help

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=479&i=36

[Souljah333]

LOL...it's really not that complicated. really. if you want to get intense try looking over the curezone's forum on hulda clarks parasitic cleansing! that is something that has to be very precisely done and followed strictly or you can really sick during detox. that's my next step...right now i'm drinking the psyllium & bentonite clay (P&B) shakes (not bad) and lots of water, but that's not important to you right now.

i don't follow any recipes. i just get an empty jar and squeeze fresh lemons into it and add maple syrup to taste, and as much cayenne as i can stand. then i either put a tad in with some boiling water and sip, or mix with bottled water to carry with me throughout the day. drinking a lot of water is important always (and hard as hell for me to do), but during a fast it's a must. keep flushing out the toxins and keep your stomach feeling full. i don't do anything special before a fast, nor during...some people will warn against driving or operating heavy machinery...but i've never gotten "loopie" from it where i couldn't function. your first fast i would suggest your goal be a week...go longer if you feel like it. and no, you don't want to sit down and eat a massive plate of food when you're done. just be logical...think of it like a baby who's just come of the breast.    broth, juice, porridge, a tiny bit of fruit mixed in if you want. the next day steam veggies. rice, a little fish...by the third day you can go back to regular eating...but wolfing down an entire pizza kind of defeats the benefits. i don't eat a lot normally...i'm really bored with food in general, but when i come off a fast it amazes me how little food i need. a half an apple and piece of cheese will fill me up nicely. and it feels like it's actually being utilized! transformed into energy. try your hardest to keep portions "fist" size. it doesn't last long of course...before your piling your plate again, or unconsciously shoving crap in your mouth.

you can still drink alcohol (most wouldn't agree), but just a lot less of it. if you want to drink beer during a fast i don't see a problem with that (it's a liquid right?!?). i haven't gained any weight afterwards...actually you'll shed some more weight during the fast, and then it's up to you if you want to change your dietary habits afterwards or go back to what your were doing before. steak by the way is good for you (save for the mad cow disease). i'm no expert on denmark, but don't you guys eat small anyway? like appetizer type stuff? little open faced sandwiches and marinated things or is that just "americanized "ikea" danish" seems like instead of massive quantities of empty-tasteless poison (like here), you guys create with more intense flavors and pretty presentations (artistic food)...it's more satisfying bcuz it appeals to all the senses. more intelligent.

you can also consume broths while you fast too...any kind you want. stay away from dairy though.

any more questions my little Æbleskiver?


HA...i googled denmark and this was the first thing that came up?!?

There are too many sperm donors in Denmark
Sperm donor boom is gathering steam in Denmark. Men are lined up to sperm banks. The reasons of such rush was the fact that the largest sperm bank of the country raised the price of one load.  

333

[Seeker of Matter]

Hey thanks for your advises. I think that I actually might try starving myself after the exams – the results could be rather interesting I guess because what is the worst thing that can happen? Ok I die so what – I probably will get reincarnated again. Perhaps I died in my last life because of a wicked faste hehe

And omg.. LOL

my little Æbleskiver

I think I might die of laughter the next time somebody writes something like that but I must say that I am impressed that you actually found time to search for a Danish word.... And sperm bank news I didn't even know off. What we Danes do in our spare time huh? DON'T GOOGLE DENMARK!! You might not like what you see I actually don't know what the English word for "æbleskive" is. I don't even know if that kind of food exits anywhere ells than in Denmark. And btw. ÆbleskiveR is the pluralis form of one æbleskive

And to the amounts of food eaten in Denmark... I think we are the 2nd fattest nation in the world so we eat a lot. Pork is very popular in Denmark – along with any other kind of meat I guess. The national dish (if that is what it is called) is "Brown gravy with potatoes" and of course frikadeller or "Danish meatballs" and it doesn't really taste of much. Not like Mexican food at least. It is something that makes you wanna go into a coma after you have eaten it as the body directs all the blood to the stomach in order to digest all those "frikadeller". I guess that is why I am so unclear in my head because I am digesting frikadeller all the time. My god!  

And hey. To return a little to the subject. Yesterday I thought of the one thing that I in no way HAD to do on a Saturday. And that was to get up at six O'clock and take a run! (now you take a moment to get your pulse down after that extreme idea that must have shattered your belief in normality ) well I did actually get up at 6 am. And I did put on my "jogging clothes" and I did run about 2 meters outside my door only to find myself extremely wet from all the rain that was pouring down from above with the intensity of a thousand waterfalls (ok I exaggerated but I DID get wet....) so I went back inside fell asleep again.

But that was not the end....

When I got up again I around 11.30 am I (once again) put on my jogging clothes and I ran the 4 kilometres I wanted to. But the weather was hot and the rain that had fallen was vaporising so it was very humid and I thought that I was going to choke on the air as I was nearing my house again. But I completed the run and I was very proud of myself.
Nobody told me to run and if I didn't run nothing would happen to me. So I guess I have defied myself. Defied the ways that have always controlled me. I am actually able to do something without the motivation of others. It can be done!!
I think the way to do it is to shut off your mind the moment you have thought of something you want to do otherwise your mind will work against you and convince of all the reasons NOT to do what you want. I will work on my theory, as it is far from logical. But I guess this was the first important step then. Hooray for me

[Souljah333]

herut med dig!

well my sweet æbleskive (no R)
i am so very proud of you, and yes you have inspired me!!!
had no idea it was possible!
check out your palm reading already...and keep me posted on your progress.
you aren't going to die from fasting...stop being absurd!
my silly aktiv lille sylteagurk
http://www.worldofquotes.com/proverb/Danish/20/
worth a few good laughs.

333