Merry Christmas AP!
I was wondering what you all think about hunting. It's always been a hobby of mine. I may have made this topic before. What are your opinions on it? I love animals. I love nature. I want to start going hunting. Probably not too often but to get out in the woods etc. Do you think this would degrade my spiritual process? I love animals and if I did get a deer I would HAVE to eat it. That's my rule. I always liked hunting but I don't want it to.degrade my spiritual process. I've grown up a lot. I'm not one of those irrisponsible hunters. I have respect for nature but I always loved hunting. I'd love to hear what you.all think.
Make sure you go for the female deers 'cause the males are going to pay you back in hell by sticking their antler up yo @$s. No kidding, that's their rule .).
Quote from: rain_88 on December 25, 2012, 16:22:40
Make sure you go for the female deers 'cause the males are going to pay you back in hell by sticking their antler up yo @$s. No kidding, that's their rule .).
:lol: astral antler up my astral a** aw man..!
Just my very personal view: Hunting for fun or as a sports is not really for the spiritually aware. It is 'low-vibrational'. I'd never do it.
There's maybe exceptions: Many indigenous people who do hunting out in the wild need it and I respect that. They also have another relationship to their game. They respect it and are even grateful for their sacrifice.
I'm a vegetarian. I think we should not eat animals and hunt/kill them, unless we are really in need of eating meat or have to kill them for self-defence (in case a wild animal attacks you or for hygiene reasons, e.g. noxious vermin for better / save life conditions of you or your necessary food).
Today's meat industry is very inconsiderate to animals as beings who feel and can suffer. We shouldn't support this. The more we go vegetarian or vegan, the more this will end one day. Watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTifP6idBPs
Again, just a personal view. Make of it what "you will", there is free will in this world, so it's only up to you to decide. No one will blame you.
Anything you do from a position of FEAR is going to increase your entropy (aka: is bad for you).
Are you hunting from a position of fear? Take care with answering that question for yourself... it's a loaded one and is VERY tricky.
I used to go fishing and put them back. But now I could not face harming an innocent creature.
My personal feeling is if its not necessary for food then its an abomination, cruel and the antithesis of spirituality.
But you have to make the choices from the heart and decide what is your truth and what feels right for you.
You have decide for your self what is right.
Also note how we wrap our opinions in politically correct statements about "killing", about what would we do and about what is right/wrong for you. And other times we point out that there are no such things but different experiences. Good luck with making up your mind :lol:!
Why do you guys think that plants can't feel pain? Or it is not murder to slice them up? They don't have a nervous system which would process the information of pain receptors and they don't scream or fight back, but this doesn't mean you can't hurt them.
Quote from: rain_88 on December 27, 2012, 03:10:18Why do you guys think that plants can't feel pain? Or it is not murder to slice them up? They don't have a nervous system which would process the information of pain receptors and they don't scream or fight back, but this doesn't mean you can't hurt them.
This surely is an interesting philosophical problem. Just speculating: Maybe in our evolution to "enlightened" beings (and mind the word light already in it!) we might devolop from carnivores to herbivores and then to sungazers, just living of light an energy. Many claim this is possible.
Anyway, from a purely ontological point of view: Is a fresh apple there to bite into or a swine? Isn't it just somehow just "there" to be used for food? Which one to bite into naturally? It's obvious, isn't it? :-D
Tom Campbell said somewhere animals do NOT come here to be eaten / killed in the first place. I don't know but it might be in the 'inital setup' of some plants and fruit to 'serve' as food resource for others.
Here's an interesting Explorer Tape from the TMI on this topic.
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/resources/downloads/cat/explorer-series
Please select #10: "Explorer Series #10 Physical Existence: Perceptions from the Other Side"
Then fast forward to minute 42:30 to listen in:
The 'channelling' says that plants are indeed conscious in some way (other experiments have proven that too). Then it is said to be expected to be 'transformed' when consumed. We as consumers should have an attitude of thankfulness. The plant has a 'choice' to grow large and healthy (for us). It's said that the plant then can merge or align with the consciousness of the 'eater' when consumed. After harvesting the plant's consciousness stays for a max of two weeks, then leaves again or whatever it does (not made too clear).
I think that shamans use this principle also with highly psychotropic drugs (Ayahuasca) they intake before going on a shaman's journey. Many say they then 'merge' with the 'plant's soul' somehow.
I don't say this is the way it all is. Just an interesting take on it.
Wow, thx for the link. I never thought they have any material for free 8-).
I think you can prove it for yourself that plants are conscious in a way simply by talking to them. Dying plants can be restored by communicating with them.
I don't know if animals or plants are meant to be food for people, I just don't agree with becoming vegetarian only because one doesn't want to harm an innocent creature. What is innocence anyway? I assume that there must be guilty beings too. Who is the judge? And why project these human attributes on other beings?
On the other hand I wonder if animals and plants conduct these kinds of intellectual masturbations or just simply understand the reason of their existence better than we do.
Volgerle- That's actually super interesting. Thank you for sharing! Do you mind if I ask... Since you are a vegetarian where do you get your proteins from? A lot of my doctors said with my health it would be smart for me to go on an all protein diet. Like the atkins or something... I wonder why. I never followed any diet really. Another thing with me is I love meat... It would be really hard for me to stop eating steak. Especially with A1 steak sauce or well... now I am hungry. :-D j/k
It really would be tough for me to stop eating meat though. One of the reasons I would like to hunt is I could eat meat from what I hunted. I wouldn't be consuming the meat that we throw chemicals on etc. I have seen what these factories do to animals like cows etc. I think it is absolutely disgusting. It makes me sick. I love animals dearly.
That's why if it were up to me I would just start buying my vegies and fruits and whole food stores. (no preservatives or any of that junk) and the meat that I get would strictly be from me hunting.
It's kind of tough for me. The only reason I asked the pulse was to get some opinions and such. I guess I just have mixed views on it you know? I don't want anything to hurt my spiritual growth. Like Xanth mentioned too though... He had a very good point too.
If you want to start an all protein diet it wouldn't be smart to rely only on vegetal proteins since they don't contain all the essential amino acids your system needs. (These are the ones your body unable to synthetize). And these amino acids are essential for the uptake of the other amino acids, so without them you would be in a serious trouble in the long run.
I am a vegetarian too, and I consume dairy to avoid that. Another option could be recombinant proteins produced by microorganisms, but I'm not sure if they are used for nutrition purposes by humans, at least not where I live.
Also, you should ask your doctors about metabolic acidosis whet it comes to all protein diet 8-).
Quote from: rain_88 on December 27, 2012, 14:57:09
If you want to start an all protein diet it wouldn't be smart to rely only on vegetal proteins since they don't contain all the essential amino acids your system needs. (These are the ones your body unable to synthetize). And these amino acids are essential for the uptake of the other amino acids, so without them you would be in a serious trouble in the long run.
I am a vegetarian too, and I consume dairy to avoid that. Another option could be recombinant proteins produced by microorganisms, but I'm not sure if they are used for nutrition purposes by humans, at least not where I live.
Also, you should ask your doctors about metabolic acidosis whet it comes to all protein diet 8-).
Eating corn and beans will provide you with all the amino acids you need. Its that simple 8-)
It's a myth that you need meat proteins, you don't. It's that simple. Proof can be found easily: It is not not necessarily so many vegans and vegatarians who run a lot to doctors or other therapists due to malnutrition problems. :wink:
Yes, you can do things terribly wrong when on a vegetarian diet, but this applies to all modes of nutrition. As a vegetarian you actually DO eat some dairy stuff (milk, cheese etc.) and get some proteins from there. Otherwise you would be vegan.
Still you can get your proteins from other sources. It is not that important for proteins but especially for Vitamin B12 to avoid aenema because VB12 is only in animal meat. On the other hand there are so many supplements you can take with the necessary B-vitamins nowadays.
In earlier times, when veggetables were not washed that much thoroughly (hygienically) by the industry (or by ourselves) you even had your VB12 dose naturally because it was on top of the peels, skins, surfaces of some veggies or fruits or both (not sure anymore) because bacteria living on it produce it in their metabolism (btw, they produce a lot of vitamins, also in your bowels, did you know that?). So back then you would not even have needed supplements, dairy or meat in order to avoid VB12 shortage.
Besides: I've heard that too much of meat consumption makes OBEs, AP, meditation or clairvoyance harder, esp. when you eat raw / red meat. Some APers (and authors) claim it in some books, too. At least they say they can have better experiences when on a veggie diet.
Besides (2), regarding health, you have a higher risk of incuring Colorectal Cancer when you consume a lot of meat. Also other cancers have been reported in studies to be very prevalent among heavy meat eaters (next to the cardiovascular trouble and all that, of course).
I'm not a Wikipedia fan at all, but this sums it up pretty well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat#Potential_health_risks
Thanks a bunch for that link Volgerle.
BTW I like your link in your signature. Good stuff!
Aww, this myth is taught by the universities of this country, but I found opposing info after a little research, which seems credible. Now who should I trust :?...
It is not like I'd change my diet anyways, since it works for me, but thx for the info guys.
so i have hunted before and killed some animals in my life but that was before i was conscious to this game of life we are playing. i learned in the past few months how our water is polluted and how meat is bad for your body. i mean your digestive track isnt made to process it. you dont have claws and you cant eat it raw. think about it at one time their was no fire, and people lived then. i now hunt for wild food and find this much more challenging and educational. any one can call in a deer but not everyone can find wild herbs to cure a disease. still people love to argue over the protein thing you body makes. you know all doctors are pharmaceutical reps for large corporations and all they do is take a natural cure grind it up then sell it to you for an outrageous price. why do you think b17 is illegal in the USA. and if you still dont believe me that meat is bad take some time and train yourself on how to see auras have one friend eat a steak and another eat a organic salad filled with organic yummies and watch what happens to their energetic fields. it will show you the truth about meat. just giving my view on the whole thing. RAW diet is the only way to go in my book 13love though and best of luck with your travels.
Meat consumption doesn't affect spiritual activity too much. It might cause an additional burden of body awareness. But it's largely cultural and belief driven. Hunting is a natural human activity and post hunt feasts involved activities with the spirit world in pre agricultural societies. Eat in a way that doesn't cause distraction and don't worry about it. The goal is to forget or disregard the body so distracting yourself with food obsessions is counter productive. The body is just an interface to interact with this astral plane. Don't fuss with it too much
I haven't noticed any differences between being a meat eater and turning veggie. I've switched over a few times. The last switch is more permanent me thinks... to fish meat and veg/fruit only. Difference is I actually can't eat non-fish based meat... I physically reject it.
OOBE wise there has been no difference.
There may be a problem with eating processed foods only. No healthy veg or real meats, just that stodgy slop shaped by machines.
Organic foods have an aura far superior to processed, easily seen by kirlian photography. There's a difference too between organic and hydroponically produced foods.
It may simply be, added chemicals. That's another story...
Well, ask yourself this. Do you think hunting other humans would hinder spiritual progress?
Well, ask yourself this. Do you think hunting other humans would hinder spiritual progress?
do not animals have a life force within them when you look at an animals does the aura not move? when you ap cannot your pet not go with you? if you pet can go y wouldnt a cow or deer be able to are they not natural beings also? learn how to see auras go to a restraint sit down and watch someone eat watch their aura their spiritual energy die down. does this not mean something? if a animal can ap would that not mean it is a conscious being. if it is a conscious being just like i am a conscious being what would be the difference in hunting a hue/man compared to a rabbit in the forest. would not you say their is a difference in picking an apple from a tree and cutting the tree down to take all the apples?
Quote from: 13thrisingtruths on January 01, 2013, 12:21:06
Well, ask yourself this. Do you think hunting other humans would hinder spiritual progress?
do not animals have a life force within them when you look at an animals does the aura not move? when you ap cannot your pet not go with you? if you pet can go y wouldnt a cow or deer be able to are they not natural beings also? learn how to see auras go to a restraint sit down and watch someone eat watch their aura their spiritual energy die down. does this not mean something? if a animal can ap would that not mean it is a conscious being. if it is a conscious being just like i am a conscious being what would be the difference in hunting a hue/man compared to a rabbit in the forest. would not you say their is a difference in picking an apple from a tree and cutting the tree down to take all the apples?
YES there is a difference between picking an apple from and a tree and cutting down the whole thing. How does this have to do with hunting? He is talking about killing an animal and putting it to good use, he never said he was going to kill it and let its meat go bad. I have heard so many people go off about hunting then turn around and shop for at major superstore chains where the meat & produce definitely goes bad if people do not buy it and has tons of added hormones. Us meat eaters who are more aware of the world and what we eat get most of our meat from a local butcher, where we can have a relationship with the people who are killing and butchering our food and trust in them that the animal was not intensively raised.
Everything has a life force. PLANTS have a life force. They respond more subtly to us but they do respond. So if someone wants to be a vegetarian then that's great for them, that is their life choice, but in the end they should realize they will always be a consumer and their existence will take its toll on the earth. If you are going to eat meat, you should not be in denial about what you are doing. I think it is very honorable for you to seek out your own food (within reason). I am not speaking ill of any of you particularly, but the human race needs to develop a closer relationship with their food and not be so judgmental of what people eat but how they treat it.
greetings to 13love 13love to all i want to start off saying it does not matter to me what you eat at all im only trying to share knowledge of my understanding on the subject with that said if you are going to continue eating meat and not doing your homework on the subject you should look into superbugs and how they have begun to spread to wildlife. you should know they kill more people than aids and modern science cannot cure you of them.( only nature can in my opinion and many others but your government of pharma companys would never tell you this.) their is plenty of info on the topic and most of the death totals i have found are from 2005 their still isnt a cure so just putting it out. i have love for everyone and everything dont want to freak anybody out but its the truth and its been kept a secret from you. exponential growth their is a story on this idea if you havnt herd of it at the link. 13love to all
Edit: Link was removed due to Trojan virus on that site!
Lionheart
I agree that a vegetarian diet can be very good for you, and I hate the way much of the food industry processes animals for meat, though I could say the same about vegetables and fruit. But I don't think eating meat is bad. You just have to be careful what you buy and be conscious of where it's coming from. It's about having a balanced diet that works for your body... everyone is different on how their body responds to things. And our teeth are made for tearing meat.
As far as hunting, I think if you're going to eat or sell the meat and aren't doing it for the thrill of watching something die, it's all good. It's only going to effect you on a spiritual level if you have some sort of subconscious guilt about it. I have a bunch of ground squirrels around my house, and they burrow really close to my foundation which can end up a huge problem, so I had to start killing them. I don't like shooting cute little chipmunks, but I look at them the way I do roaches. I've eliminated a dozen of them guilt-free.
The way I look at these controversial issues: if it fits in with your morals, don't let someone else make you feel you're doing something bad.
HAha!!
"I look at them the way I do roaches"
Priceless.
5 years later you start picking off people
"I look at them the way I do Chipmunks"
That was a joke by the way and I am in no way saying that you are desensitising yourself to killing mammals by seeing them as another creature that is by our human standards lower than the mammal.... or am I?
"The way I look at these controversial issues: if it fits in with your morals, don't let someone else make you feel your doing something bad."
:-D
"Don't you make me feel bad for shooting Justin Beiber... It was a moral act and it had to be done!!!"
My perspective is this:
Do you need to hunt to eat and live? If so, do it in moderation, and with respect for the animals.
Do you not need to hunt to eat and live? If so, why cause harm that is unnecessary?
I place hunting many steps above raising animals on farms, and countless steps above producing them in factories as we do today. You must respect it for what it is though, and not take what you don't need.
Quote from: Bedeekin on January 02, 2013, 12:11:31
HAha!!
"I look at them the way I do roaches"
Priceless.
5 years later you start picking off people
"I look at them the way I do Chipmunks"
That was a joke by the way and I am in no way saying that you are desensitising yourself to killing mammals by seeing them as another creature that is by our human standards lower than the mammal.... or am I?
"The way I look at these controversial issues: if it fits in with your morals, don't let someone else make you feel your doing something bad."
:-D
"Don't you make me feel bad for shooting Justin Beiber... It was a moral act and it had to be done!!!"
Morals are subjective, which is why controversial debates never cease. You have to live by your own morals - living by someone else's is having no conviciton and a lack of spirituality, no matter how good or positive it may sound (though I would say murder is having a lack of morals). In my case, letting a few ground squirrels live could mean the foundation of my home being destroyed and my house eventually collapsing. They're pests, and it's irresponsible to let pests thrive. You don't let roaches take over your kitchen.
This could apply to deer as well. There are many areas around here where the deer are so overpopulated they become inbred pests. It's irresponsible to let them get to that point. In this case, shooting for sport might not be a bad idea. Or what about animal shelters that have to put down animals? It's sad, but it's the most humane thing to do. I think one issue is that in society we tend to view death as always being a negative thing. It's not looked at as a cycle, it's seen as an end and it seems unjust, but that's all just in your morals and perspective.
Animals have no ego or self-awareness. They don't have individual souls, they share being on a soul/astral level (depending on your metaphysical beliefs). Their experience of death is not the same experience that humans go through. I'm not saying this makes killing animals OK, I'm just saying that our perspective may cloud the reality of the situation, which is why it's important to work through your own personal morals and values. That's all a person really has if they're going to be honest with themselves.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 02, 2013, 15:47:28
Animals have no ego or self-awareness.
Some higher animals might develop this right now. It is said (and I read it in channeled messages as well as in transcripts by people under hypnosis) that some are able to develop it in relationship to humans. They are maybe (!) also on a path to evolution into higher forms of beings (includes humans).
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 02, 2013, 15:47:28
Animals have no ego or self-awareness.They don't have individual souls, they share being on a soul/astral level (depending on your metaphysical beliefs). Their experience of death is not the same experience that humans go through.
This is maybe still right for most of them, certainly for the 'lower' forms who might have a group/hive mind also in this world. What I don't get is your conclusion from this to the next sentence. What does it mean not the 'same' experience of death? If we consider the physical aspect I am not too sure about this. Just watch some videos (the one I linked before here) of animals suffer in death agony. How can we say we really KNOW they do not really suffer? If this is what you mean I really don't get your message but maybe I misunderstand your post.
I also have trouble with that. How are you so certain their experiences are that different from that of humans in every way... especially chordates like mice or iguanas? A bear's body is so similar to ours in almost every way, it seems only natural that they would share a large part of what we experience.
you eat meat you are going to get a bug its that easy. deer elk pig if it is meat it carries bugs inside of their meat like mad cow deiease. if i look at my apple i can tell if its bad but your steak is going to look the same. but you say aw il tell if it has it 200 ppl die every year from one strand of it alone and il bet the government wouldnt tell you if it killed more or about super bugs crossing over into wild life. of course they wouldnt tell ya they want you to eat it they want your weapons so if you kill yourself off it will be much easer for them to get them now wont it.LMAO SMH, most hunters bait in deer with corn what gives cows mad cow corn.
but you ant hearing me you say i ant going to get sick well if you have sex with someone that has aids you might not get sick either but i dont see you out picking up these ppl. AWE 13risingtruths you just pushing it to the extreme. well ant ap obeing and lucid dreaming pushing you to an extreme. doesnt it make you question everyaspect of everything around you? dont you ask why more than most people around you? i know i do and i like to ask why are their bugs that kill us? maybe because we have hurt nature so much nature is going to fight back. SMH rather be safe than sorry. still love ya though just wish you could love yourself as much as i love you. 13love to everyone i ant mad at ya, do what ya wanna do, but im still going to make ya think and tell you the truth. heck dont ask me go on an obe and call out your spirt guide call out the creator if you can call out somone with the highest of light and ask them. thats who i would ask if i was wondering if it was bad real talk. dont listen to me listen to yourself. 13love
http://www.mad-cow.org/99feb_cwd_special.html
Oh... that's old stuff.
It does make me question everything around me but not to the extreme I climb inside a box too scared to fart.
I have eaten raw meat and licked a cows brain (don't ask.. playground prank) and I'moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
With a lighted candle? BOOM...
LMAO.
Quote from: Volgerle on January 02, 2013, 16:07:20
Some higher animals might develop this right now. It is said (and I read it in channeled messages as well as in transcripts by people under hypnosis) that some are able to develop it in relationship to humans. They are maybe (!) also on a path to evolution into higher forms of beings (includes humans).
This is maybe still right for most of them, certainly for the 'lower' forms who might have a group/hive mind also in this world. What I don't get is your conclusion from this to the next sentence. What does it mean not the 'same' experience of death? If we consider the physical aspect I am not too sure about this. Just watch some videos (the one I linked before here) of animals suffer in death agony. How can we say we really KNOW they do not really suffer? If this is what you mean I really don't get your message but maybe I misunderstand your post.
I'm not saying they don't suffer and I'm not talking just the physical aspect of death, but the entire cycle through all the spheres (everything that comes into the physical suffers and dies, that's a part of it). Life and death for animals is not the same as it is for us. We have a human perception of life and death and try to relate that to animals when that could be very far off from the truth of their cycle and reasons for being. Again, I'm not saying what is right or wrong or trying to legitimize the killing of animals, just saying it's possible for some reasoning on either side of the debate to be based on a biased perception of things.
...and that's why you have to come to your own morals. That's really my main point in this thread.
By the way Stookie... I agreed with you. I was just playing with what you said. It was perfect to misinterpret.
A lot of hunter gatherer tribes use hunting spiritually and for food... also.. the cannibals of the amazon apparently believed they were absorbing the spirit of the person they ate. Isn't it all down to personal beliefs these days?
That contains frightening possibilities. I've seen people that I truely would not want to be absorbing their spirit
You have seen people who you wouldn't eat? That's what I just read isn't it... That contains much more frightening possibilities. Rather funny...
1st Cannibal: I'm not eating him...
2nd Cannibal: why?
1st Cannibal: Don't like the look if him... I would not want to be absorbing their spirit... look at his ears...
2nd Cannibal: Stop playing with your food anyway... and don't eat chicken with your fingers....
1st Cannibal: Hmm?
2nd Cannibal: Don't eat the chicken with your fingers... eat the fingers separately.
sorry.. back on topic
Reminds me of Cannibal the Musical, where they're all grossed out over eating a person, but one guy comes back for seconds with a smile on his face.
Quote from: Bedeekin on January 03, 2013, 12:06:57
By the way Stookie... I agreed with you. I was just playing with what you said. It was perfect to misinterpret.
I figured it was lighthearted, but it was also a legitimate argument so I thought I'd address it anyways. :)
You should watch this video.
http://youtu.be/66roUb1YqNw
watch all of it.