The Astral Pulse

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How about the boards as they are for $10 a year?

If the reason is workload, why not just drop some topics without a subscription? If the reason is financial rather than workload related why limit the scope?

Also since focus is the aim, why have Metaphysics AND (I presume) Quantum Metaphysics? Plain quantum physics doesn't sound like something this forums should include mainly because the level of discussion will almost necessarily be extremely limited in scope.

As the proposal stands I vote a noncommittal "dunno."

2cents & L&L
Jouni

we have to pay now?[:(] to be on astralpulse

Greetings GANAMOHA,

quote:

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Originally posted by GANAMOHA

we have to pay now?[:(] to be on astralpulse

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No, this will be additional to the forums as they are now, so you will be able to particpate here as before for free.

Best regards,

Adrian.

i voted no but meant yes opps srry

Greetinhs Jilola,

Thank you very much indeed for your comments.

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Originally posted by jilola

How about the boards as they are for $10 a year?

If the reason is workload, why not just drop some topics without a subscription? If the reason is financial rather than workload related why limit the scope?

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Money is not in any way the motivation for this proposal. We wish to provide all members and potential members an additional option in orde to pursue discussions in a more more highly focussed environment.

Of course, the Astral Pulse does cost time and money to operate, especially considering its size, and of course the funds received would go towards maintaining and operating the forums in future.

quote:

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Also since focus is the aim, why have Metaphysics AND (I presume) Quantum Metaphysics? Plain quantum physics doesn't sound like something this forums should include mainly because the level of discussion will almost necessarily be extremely limited in scope.

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Quantum Metaphysics will not be included as such. Quantum Physics is modern Spirituality in a great many respects, in fact Quantum Physics cannot be seperated from the esoteric, mystical, occult paths, and so this is a good opportunity to include this important subject.

I would again like to make it clear that we are not proposing any changes to the Astral Pulse as it is now, this is an additional, entirely optional service.

Thank you for your valued views.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Great idea, but whats to stop immature or irresponsible people from subscribing and lowering the quality of something like this, to gain more personal knowledge?

Adrian:/b]

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We wish to provide all members and potential members an additional option in orde to pursue discussions in a more more highly focussed environment.

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Umm..,. let me get this straigth. I'd pay to get less?
Correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds a bit strange to me.

If the intention is to provide some members(non-subscribers) with the current forums and others (subscribers) with a limited number of forums then couldn't some forums just be made "invitation only", the membership being based on either application and moderator review or a significant contribution to the community? Or are the forums listed in the poll completely new ones available only to subscribers?

2cents & L&L
jouni

So ,wait, the current members won't have to pay? Only new members?

I can't afford ten dollars. I can't afford two dollars. I'm poor. :/ I really like this forum. I think it's the nicest and best one I visit every day.

I would hate to lose it.

By default your going to limit part of the site to 18+.  Yes you can be under 18 and have a paypal account, but it's not easy.  Some people won't want to explain to their parents what the $10 was for (what will it show up as).

AND! for $10 are we going to upgrade the server(s) so the search works and the outages go away?

(I already voted yes)

Yeah, go for it.  $10 is affordable for me and if it keeps the trolls and OMGS! away, I'll be happy.  

I did like Jouni's idea of invitation-only forums, too.

And if someone can't afford it, perhaps the fee can be waived in special circumstances where the poster is obviously making mature, informative posts?

Greetings,

To follow up on some concerns:

1) The Astral Pulse as it is now will continue to be free.

2) The subscriber forums will be moderated to maintain the highest possible standards of discussions, and the moderators and myself will make every possible effort to ensure that

3) The fees will go some way to maintaining the Astral Pulse for the future. The Astral Pulse utilises a huge amount of resources that far and away exceed anything a normal hosting account would provide, and therefore requires a dedicated high-performance server. The current server is a few years old now and this has to be kept in mind.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Sorry friends, but english can be tricky to a "foreigner". So, let me see if i get the idea: the objective is to make AP forums a payable forum. We must pay for be in the forum, to participate in discussions, etc,etc. Is that the idea?!

Hmmm....it would be much more nice if it were possible to do not pay, because AP forums it is great because of it´s freedom of speech and because it is free, but if we must pay to read and post messages....

About the Topics, Adrian msybe you should consider the topics you refered. I think that little people goes to the Quantum Ph. Mayb e it is better to see the forums with more "traffic" but this is just an idea.


About the paypal system, how does it work? i dont like the idea of paying things on the nett. What about hackers having acess to your accounts, etc,,etc?

Adrian,
I may not be 18+ years, but when it comes to astral projection and OBEs I take it seriously. I've been searching for forums like this for some time now, although I have noticed many immature posters. But there are some people on the forums that I realize are very experienced in AP, and if I wasnt able to post with them anymore, my progress would slow dramatically. I'm not inexperienced when it comes to this subject, but I would love to understand it more, and if I'm stuck with a bunch of thirteen year olds who don't know what they're talking about, I have a feeling it just won't be the same.
 I'm not able to pay the amount asked because of family rules, but I would really hate to lose the privilage of posting and viewing the forums.

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1) The Astral Pulse as it is now will continue to be free.

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Excellent! That is the way I'd like AP go.

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2) The subscriber forums will be moderated to maintain the highest possible standards of discussions, and the moderators and myself will make every possible effort to ensure that

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The boards are already moderated, albeit sporadically of late.

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3) The fees will go some way to maintaining the Astral Pulse for the future. The Astral Pulse utilises a huge amount of resources that far and away exceed anything a normal hosting account would provide, and therefore requires a dedicated high-performance server. The current server is a few years old now and this has to be kept in mind.

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So far the only real and understandable reason for a fee based subscription. I think most of the regulars would (should) be happy to donate regardless and if this isn't already the case the the mind does the proverbial boggle.

The fear I have with regard to a fee for a subscription is that it will decimate not only the people it is intended to keep away but also awfully many of those that would make a good contribution to the subscriber forums, some for no other reason than principle other for lack of funds.

Also, what will become of the nonsubscriber forums? If the forums dived into those who pay and those who don't I predict a significant reduciton in th equality of the nonsubscriber forums leading to their eventual termination.

But like Mr. C said: "Do as Thou Wilt....". I have no objections, only concerns. And since I can shell out the tenner a year I'll stay on both types of forums.

Do consider the whole equation though [:)]

2cents & L&L
Jouni

So if someone isn't able to give 10 bucks, they can't join the more moderated and 'mature' forums?

That seems unfair. (But that's just me...)

-Ater

Well I'm not even currently unemployed right now so I don't really have  $10 to spare.
I also think that its somewhat unfair to start suddenly charging for a service that was free before.

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Originally posted by Lickerish

Well I'm not even currently unemployed right now so I don't really have  $10 to spare.
I also think that its somewhat unfair to start suddenly charging for a service that was free before.

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They're not proposing to charge for all access!  Just access to the focused, more closely-moderated section.

I think that people who want to pay 10$ should really be into OOBE etc. Because lets say a person pays 10$ but just asks questions like "How do I do the rope technique?" questions like that, can be answered in normal forums. So whoever has not voted yet, should think about what i wrote.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you guys get my point? Its really hard for me to explain because i am hispanic and i have a hard time typing in english.[:D]

Why make them invisible?  At least make the forums readable so that everyone can benefit from the wonderful discussions that develop.  Make it so that only those that pay can post if you have to, but leave the information out in the open for all to learn from.

Interesting. I'm trying to think of other examples where an organization tried to sell quality of discussion. Usually discussion clubs that require fees do so because there's a tangible element (i.e. events, materials, facilities). In this case it's a forum... but that's odd because the forum would still be free for others. There's just this addition of a subscription only section. How silly is that? Are people more mature about talking when they pay for it? Are they less mature when they don't?

I think it's very funny that the longer established members have equated loss of value with increase in members - as if value and people are inversely related.

Although I wasn't around back then, I've read most of the early threads and have this to say about them: 1) They were just as general as they are today. People asked "what is kundalini?" and inquired on authenticity, "did I have an OBE?" repeatedly. Therefore, 2) the focus that did exist was not theoretical but social. And 3) the most theoretical focus was because Robert Bruce was active in the forum. As the founder of the web site he's the figurehead of the topic of discussion. Every topic around his posts were "focused" because he is the focus. His posts were actually quite lengthy in order to satisfy the largely general nature of the questions asked of him.

Since Bruce coming back isn't a condition, it appears the established members want to reclaim social focus. That can be done very easily without paying $10 - they can privately email each other en masse or even go to places like Yahoo!groups. Understandably they were here first, though, and so want to exercise a sense of "ownership" over the forum by paying for it.

You silly geese. It's free.

You want more engaging theoretical focus, so you think you can achieve this by decreasing the amount of people in discussion? This is fallacious on two accounts. 1) More people means not only more ideas but a greater diversity of ideas, which only advances theoretical discussion as long as it's conducted in an orderly manner. 2) Everyone is already serious. Sure, they vary with regards to intelligence, experience, age, linguistic skill, etc., but I've never seen a member use the forum as a playground. I have been frankly quite impressed with everyone's openness and honesty - including the skeptics. It's also silly to think those of lower caliber intelligence, experience, whatever, can be filtered out through a paid service (I'm not accusing anyone of thinking that, by the way).

If you want to have social focus while retaining theoretical focus, you form the group by invitation, selectively picking people who not only get along with one another but have diversity of perspective. I don't see anything wrong with AP going this route. It's a model of classic economic efficiency; businesses use it everywhere. There would already be a sense of inclusiveness and non-inclusiveness (in the non-invitational subscription service). That would succinctly appear to advance AP's original charter (whatever it is.. advancing knowledge about AP and providing an arena of advanced meaningful discussion? sounds about right).

I don't see anything wrong with the subscription addition, either. What's wrong is the people who want it.[|)]


Why don't we discuss the nature of this apparent loss of value? The forum can also be improved other ways, like creating a rule that no one can ask the question "was this an OBE?" providing a sticky that says it's a personal judgement and there is a mysterious relationship between beliefs and the experience of OBE's. That and other rules would eliminate a lot of garbage threads in my opinion and make the forum more congenial.

[Edited for clarity.]

Hi Phong ! hope you are well.

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Are people more mature about talking when they pay for it? Are they less mature when they don't?

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hee hee.... I guess the short answer to that question is "yes". If I'm paying 50p per minute to call my friend's mobile on another network, chances are I'll be getting to the point concisely. I'll still have time to have a laugh though.... very bad example I know [:)] but the principal remains the same.

As a new member who might visit only once or twice, knowing that I'll have to pay $10 to ask "what's an OBE" within a seperate group of forums will definitely put me off posting there. Thus, it would be hoped that the quality of discussion in these 5 subscription forums would be more in-depth.  

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I think it's very funny that the longer established members have equated loss of value with increase in members - as if value and people are inversely related.

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I don't believe that the "oldies" feel that way ! I think you might have mis-interpreted Adrian's post.

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If you want to have social focus while retaining theoretical focus, you form the group by invitation,

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Phong, I think this is a great idea, but it might cause a few major rifts ! hee hee. More importantly, nobody, new members or old, is qualified to pick and choose who deserves to be in such a group.

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I don't see anything wrong with the subscription addition, either. What's wrong is the people who want it.

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Not sure what you mean here !!

Hi Jilola,

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Also, what will become of the nonsubscriber forums? If the forums dived into those who pay and those who don't I predict a significant reduciton in the quality of the nonsubscriber forums leading to their eventual termination.

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Hopefully such a termination would never happen. But you are right, the creation of subscriber forums may well have the unwanted side effect of reducing the quality of the rest of the astralpulse. Or perhaps, the growing membership would maintain the quality ?

Kind regards,
Mark

Hello Mods [:)]

If the subscribe-only sections are visible to non-members, this would benefit everyone, including the Mods!

If it's made visible, then people can decide to pay as and when they feel they want to contribute something worthwhile to the discussions.  I think you'll find the majority of serious people will end up paying anyway, because the information in the read-only sections will be tantalising!  And the information left in the free parts will be... well, lets say less tantalising.

Initially I'm not happy, it's a personal policy not to pay for information that is normally free on the Internet.  However, it's such a good website.  I know I'll still get this site free, but I feel that most of the sensible discussion (for want of a better word) will be hidden from me, if I don't pay.

I need to think about it some more before I vote, but these are my early thoughts.

Sarah

Hey Mark. I am well, thank you, and I hope you are as well (if not better!).

quote:

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Originally posted by clandestino
Not sure what you mean here !!

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I just meant I thought it was silly for someone to want to pay for something that's already free (outside of a donation context). I do see the logic - paying for a conversation commands a certain sobriety. However, it doesn't guarantee it, and only guarantees that there will be fewer members (which can either be good or bad, but leaning towards bad). After all registering a username with an email address and knowing how to read also command a certain level of sobriety, so we have a start. ;)

I think the idea is a good one! though I think it would have been better to just call it a VIP club and/or an area for private discussions ... just to avoid the apparent confusion. All in all it sounds good!!! [:D]

Just a thought about the $10/year fee being too much... We're not talking about $20 or $50 a month; it's just $10/year!  The equivalent of: a movie ticket, a meal, a CD, half a DVD, etc...  for a whole year!  On the other hand, the paypal/kids problem is a problem...

Will I pay for it...?  No.  Not because I cannot afford it; but because I don't want to use my CC or use paypal stuff on the net.  Call me paranoid!  [:I]

An alternative would be maybe... hum... tiny adds (like googles text adds)?

hello!

i have some thoughts about the choises we have when we vote.
the first one is simply "yes i would welcome..." the second is "no, i have no interest in joining..." and the last, "i have no particular position..."

i dont think it leaves any room for people like me who think that this is a very bad idea, because of many reasons. most of them is allready mentioned.

as it is this is a selfless service, so dont allow it to grow to something that is just like the rest of this world. what people give on these forums is their own experiences, ideas, thoughts and help. no matter who you are and what youve been through, thats the unity, and thats the most important thing i think. and not only for the "small" ones being able to talk to more experienced but also the other way around. to give sevice and work with patience is not small things.

"noone is an island, wether you like it or not, all in the same boat wich is about to be rocked" -asian dub foundation

/jonas
 

[quote If the subscribe-only sections are visible to non-members, this would benefit everyone, including the Mods!

If it's made visible, then people can decide to pay as and when they feel they want to contribute something worthwhile to the discussions.  I think you'll find the majority of serious people will end up paying anyway, because the information in the read-only sections will be tantalising!  And the information left in the free parts will be... well, lets say less tantalising.

[/quote]

I think that it is also a very good idea. Also I understand that 10$ (it really is the price of a CD) is something some people can't afford, but on the other hand..have you all thought of the fact how much you are GAINING from the forum. I costs to run a forum like that and it's just the willingness to share (I'm talking about Adrian and all others taht run this place)that makes it possible for us to have such a great place. I said yes just out of the respect to the people that are putting alot of their own energy and money into this forum.

ps. I've seen on other sites situations where only one forum was "members only" and it seemed to work out great.
ps2. I also worry about the "wayO\ of paying" .There is no pay pal in some countries of Europe, and things like Western Union are very expensive.
good luck

I still thinking that paying things by net it´s a problem (like someone said here "call me paranoid") for two reasons: it´s not safe and under 18 cannot pay it.

You may argue: "So, kids cannot pay, thats good because now we will have shure that only mature people will post nice discussions in the forum". I really hope that no one it is thinking like that because "kids" are not kids. I know many "kids" with 15 years, 16, etc and they are very mature.

I have another question: how deep would go such "mature" discussions if we pay?! I mean, instead of questions like "Is obeing a dream?" or "How can i afford obes with the rope tech ?", etc what kind of questions and discussions would we have? I really dont see any more deep than that...

Maybe the discussions would be around on topics like:
"catching negs"
"detailed descripyion of the planes that i visited"
or topics about very specific aspects about chakras
or topics about discussions related with theorys on the nature of AP

but this topics should be seen by others. I mean, maybe they are boring because they can be very specific, but i really like to know some very specifics things like "detailed descripyion of the planes that i visited".

So, in order to solve this problems, i have an idea:
-every people in the forum, at least for a month, since the paypal method start or since the begining of that person in the forum (for a month too) could visit the paying forums for free.

After that they should pay, let´s say, 5$ just for visit the forum. I mean, if you think that it is unfair for people visiting for free the forum (just visit), so they should be some little amount, like 4 or 5 bucks.

This are just some ideas. I think that i will not pay anything because i dont like the idea of paying things in the net, but if Adrian were my neighboor, i would pay for the forum (10$ it´s little money for a whole year), because i would give him personally the money.

btw, the paypal does it exist in Europe?

i do see a few problems here:
1)i don't even know what paypad is(europe), also i have no account nor credit card and i'm paranoid about paying in the net, that's personal reasons
2)subscribers forums should be visible to everyone(newbies watching them can't lower their quality), but paying when you want to contribute something misses the point, let's say that i found good way to oobe, now i have to pay 10 $ to tell others about it, why bother ??
3) lowered quality generally means seewing(pardon my english) through short topics like huh, kundalini, help me with (insert name here), that's really no big deal, and specific discussions blossom all over the place, eventually moderators may delete posts not contributing to the topic, but we have decisions here and we are only human, after all
4)why energy development and psd are left out, they are equally important
5)why not banners ?

After reading everyones posts it makes total sense.

The forums as we see them now will stay exactly the same with the same topics and no charge.

However for those whom are more involved/experienced in OBE etc will pay $10.00 for an additional area which subscribers "can enjoy a very highly focussed, and strictly moderated range of forums" which means it's moderated much more strictly. The last thing subscribers want is someone asking how to OBE! that's for the non-subscribers section.

I think it's a brilliant idea!  I will be paying my $10 bucks.

However I do have only one concern!
With all the more experienced people subscribing for the additional moderated section, will the less experienced people's questions be neglected?

That was one of the most stupid ideas ive ever heard!
To make people pay for a forum access.

I dont like the idea of registrating my true identity on a forum.
Adding my PayPal id to this forumname i have is something i would never do.

Lots of people like to be anonymous on the internet.
Making this not possible in a forum like this is just stupid.

I know that the user will not get my true identity, but you as administrators have a nice little database over every individual on this forum.

You will earn money on information that isnt even your ideas, you just admin the forum, and that is not something that is very hard to do.

Either you continue your work, or someone else can takeover.
Making people pay to limit the amount of threads is just a stupid stupid idea.

Lots of people are getting interrested in obe's and such.
Not very strange that many people are coming to your forum to post threads etc.

DONT limit people!
I will never give out my true identity, nor will i pay for reading and posting on a forum.
A chat i could understand..but a forum, come on!!

Bad idea!!
Very stupid!!

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Originally posted by LogoRat

That was one of the most stupid ideas ive ever heard!
To make people pay for a forum access.

I dont like the idea of registrating my true identity on a forum.
Adding my PayPal id to this forumname i have is something i would never do.

Lots of people like to be anonymous on the internet.
Making this not possible in a forum like this is just stupid.

I know that the user will not get my true identity, but you as administrators have a nice little database over every individual on this forum.

You will earn money on information that isnt even your ideas, you just admin the forum, and that is not something that is very hard to do.

Either you continue your work, or someone else can takeover.
Making people pay to limit the amount of threads is just a stupid stupid idea.

Lots of people are getting interrested in obe's and such.
Not very strange that many people are coming to your forum to post threads etc.

DONT limit people!
I will never give out my true identity, nor will i pay for reading and posting on a forum.
A chat i could understand..but a forum, come on!!

Bad idea!!
Very stupid!!

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Actually your answer is the stupid one! you obviously haven't read Adrian's and everyone elses posts correctly.

THE SUBSCRIBERS SECTION IS AN ADDITION. WHICH MEANS ALL TOPICS THAT YOU CURRENTLY SEE WILL REMAIN THE SAME.
BUT SUBSCRIBERS WILL HAVE A HIGHLY MODERATED SECTION WHICH MEANS THEY DON'T HAVE TO SEE NEWBIE POSTS LIKE "HOW DO I PROJECT"

Next time try to read through all the posts and understand what Adrian is saying before you start being offensive.
And your post is probably the perfect example of why they want a subscribers section which is highly moderated.

I'd gladly pay $10.00 to have an annual membership tp AP, whether especially if it will increase the quality of discussions in some of the forums.  

I love AP and many people who I have met here.  Each week I give in many different ways to people who I love and ideas that I believe in so this makes perfect sense to me.  

Additionally, I like the idea of keeping thise limited forums available for viewing to un-subscribed or free members because that will encourage people to want to participate in higher levels of growth, sharing and conversation by subscribing in order to share in these strictly moderated forums.

Kerri

hello!

many here says that "the forums we have now will remain the same".
that sounds good but i dont think its true on the actual level.

it maby seems very harmles, only ten dollars... better discussions.
i think it is indeed very harmful for the forum that will loose its greatest treasure. the most advanced practioners.

bat at the same time, if these people is not willing to help others there is no way to maintain this forum universal and for all. in my eyes this is the very big step from universal to sectarian.

a special forum for americans with paypal(?) over eighteen and so on.
one place where the stupid, afraid and/or poor ones can fumble around, and one for the whitetrash. unfortunately, that is the signals this thing gives me.

i am very disapointed but if this is what the majority wants, sure.
at least i will drop of from the second best forum on the internet.

/jonas

I think that it would be no problem with payment, but in many countries like Poland, other western europe countries and all third world countries Paypal is not available. It would be unfair to divide forum members into classes, making some "elite" better than others, because they do not live in US, or do not have enough income to get a credit cart.

Why don't you just delete the fluff forums (magic, religion, etc.) and then just heavily moderate the forums taht you want.  You don't have to charge money, that is just shperf.  By deleting the fluff forums you eliminate all those people who would only join for those reasons.  They can talk about Christianity on other sites.  Don't charge money, but just focus on what you want to talk about, astral projection.  Money ruins most things.

LMFAO!!!

Fluff forums he calls them, just too funny.  So this site is only about Astral Projection?  Did you even read the founders books?

Sigh, there I go again attacking.  I appologise (as opposed to backspacing).  For those not as enlightened, it's all the same thing.  AP/OOBE is just a facet of bio-energy work.  So is magic(k), healing, divination, kinesis, voyance, and other esoteric topics, simply facets or outgrowths of energy work.  If someone isn't interested in debating fallacies in the bible, then don't go into those forums.  Be thankful that's mostly what's being discussed and not the nature of god(s) in general(that's (Quantum) Metaphysics!)

Perhaps the ability for a user to block posts by other users?  I mean is a PHP display the page sort of way, that way really offensive people will get noted and ignored by the majority?  No audience and the trolls go away.  The same for people looking to make a fast $$$.

Western Union money transfer costs about 20$, and 20+10$ is not as small amount of money in Poland that it is in US. And think about Ukraine, where average teacher earns 35$ per month....

CptPicard

You didnt understand my views at all, i can tell.

Everyone has right to their own opinions, so i will not complain your judgement.

I just dont think splitting up one forum to a paying forum and a non paying forum is a good idea anyway.

I want to read everything and participate without paying anything.
I just dont agree with their ideas, and i have a view on why i dont.

Making people pay for a forum is just stupid.

AND WHY SPLIT UP A FORUM AND SEPARATE THE USERS FROM EACHOTHER.

Think like this, newbies will never get their answers, because the payees members will not even look at it, they want to hangout in their own little corner.

Hello everyone, I have a few opinions on the subject that I would like to voice.  

I personally couldn't become a member to the advanced forums because I'm not owning a credit card, but I understand why people would want to and voted yes.  The part that concerns me though is the fact that all of the older (more advanced) members will move over to the new forums, wheras I've always seen the internet as an outlet for a mentor/student relationship.  It is through the mentors' postings and thier inspiration that the "newbies" or "fluffbunnies" of our world can see by example and move to higher vibrations.  

The result of the segregation would cause mass missinformation which would be counterproductive to the longterm goals of worldwide awareness.  

At the very least I think the forums should be visible to all so that they can atleast see and learn from the discussions going on in the new forums.  Also, although this has nothing to do with your decision Adrian, I think the older memebers would have to keep an eye out on whats being posted in the forums by the younger memebers to avoid too much confusion/stagnation.  I feel that the information we post leaves an impression on the world and if it gets too bad it will become another psipog(which was shutdown because of too many fluffbunnies).

Thats my 2 cents, but other than that I say go for it!

Approximately two years ago I joined this board, I was an avid reader, and would post very rarely.  I felt a part of the community and very much enjoyed the astral pulse.  As of late, I have almost completely stopped even visiting.  I used to enjoy the intelligent and thoughtful posts.  It was very sad to see one of my favorite thought provoking romping grounds develop into its current state.  It got to the point that it just wasn't worth it to sift through the massive amount of posts to find the occasional gems, when it seemed that they were all gems in the past.

Another problem with the current setup is that as a community the discussions develop and make a progression of there own.  People develop with the discussions.  If the community becomes too large, you just cover the same ground over and over again, without any real progression.  That is where subgroups are needed and that is what is being proposed.

***I think it would be a great idea if all were able to read the posts but only members were able to do the actual posting.  Therefore all would have access to the more mature area, and not feel left out, but the clutter would be greatly reduced.***

I might not have as much clout as others because of a minimal amount of posting but I have been around for a while (30 July 2002) and have read many many posts.  I was driven away by the problem you are attempting to resolve, so hopefully it happpens.

Doing this by a strictly democratic vote might not be the answer either because there are going to be far fewer gems.

Another possibility could be a folder in the members area that newbs could have access to and would show up to the members.  So anytime they felt like doing some community service they could field those questions.

I miss the community - pls help.

~joe

well i do understand why you would do this i have only one objection, im only 16 and my mom thinks this stuff is "hippie crap". she thinks its a waste of time and wouldnt let me pay for it. but in two more years i would.

i will leave if i gotta pay
i am broke...........

why not just regulate it to older members only.
ones that have shown that they can hold a good discussion. and if they mess up, you can ban them from the forum.
it could be like a thing where if you want on there, you gotta ask a mod or adrian.

just a thought...

Hello Adrian,

I voted no on splitting the forum into two.

An interesting point has been brought up in this thread; why doesn't RB post more on the forums?  I understand he has new responsibilities now (ei a whole group of people to give personal tutoring and posting in another forum) but he should post more here, at least while he's resting in between books.  On this very topic for example I would very much like to hear what he has to say.  As I recall the forum wasn't originally a subscription only forum, through the old www.astraldynamics.com site there was a much less sophisticated forum, before you took the reigns of the site, much fewer members, yet RB was already complaining about people's behavior once it started to grow.  I recall some very heated debate regarding some Posts by Romero C. and Robert getting upset by this.  Unfortunately, none of us can escape the inevitable reality that, however much we like to believe otherwise, that value and number people are inversely related.  You cannot seriously expect to have 10, 000 people in the forum and have it be high quality.

RainyDaze, can you point out specific topics of discussions that were more "thoughtful" back then? I ask this because I don't think the thoughtfulness has decreased at all, just the sense of a small social atmosphere - and the two are not equated.

The lack of thoughtful discussion is no one's fault but your own (speaking to everyone). If there's something that's not being talked about that you want talked about, why don't you post? Make it specific so as to attract specific responses. Make it mature so as to attract mature responders. Make it thoughtful so as to attract thoughtfulness. Otherwise, take responsibility for your lack of participation.

We, you and I, can make the forum better by being positive, civil, and self-reflective. We don't need to resort to tribally devisive measures. We can have a diplomatic, pleasent global village. [Edit: That includes you, Jonathan, and the 10,000 others as well.]

Hi,

I haven't voted yet as I would like to think about it longer.  What I write here is by way of reply but it is also me thinking out loud about the issue, be warned some fluff headed your way. [;)]

I wanted to talk about a similar situation on another site and what has occured there as an example of what I think will occur here if this comes through.

This other site is a support group for people with anxiety, I am one of those who suffer this problem occasionally.  I joined the site when it had started to pick up members in larger numbers.  There was a lot of the longer joined members who had become accustomed to being part of the smaller group.  They had advanced in their healing as well so they felt out of place with all these new members.  To make matters even more difficult for these people, there was a sudden surge of young people joining so that the more mature people felt like they were losing their place.

The admin decided to create two forums, one remained a main board area where everyone could still visit while the other became a special site for those over 30.  Initially, few went to the 30+ group, but then suddenly it picked up members and pace.  Now if you go to the site, the groups are very clearly defined.  The main board which was for everyone is almost entirely made up of teenagers while the other is made up of 25+ approx.  The teenagers are getting very little in terms of advice, information, wisdom, etc.

Within the 30+ group, someone posted a thread which has become a little social niche.  Now even within that forum, there are people who do not visit outside that thread.  They get onto the computer and go straight through 'history' to select that specific thread.  So that there have been divisions within divisions.

I think it is false to think that this will not create division since its specific aim is to cause division.  Knowing the result on the other site, suggests to me that the same will happen here, that the less experienced will end up on the 'no fee' board while the more experienced will end up moving onto the other 'fee paying' area.  I don't think it will destroy AP but it will become one big 'fluff' site, it will loose credibility because any serious thinker who comes across AP will see the 'fluff' threads and think it to be not worthwhile.  However, I do understand how frustrating it must be for the more experienced members on both sites to be stuck having to sift through new members and 'fluff' posts.    

Personally, I wouldn't join this new forum as I don't have credit cards.  I also don't want to make it so easy for myself to become one of those people who thinks I am above or beyond others.  On the other site, I still visit the main board to answer questions of teenagers and although I visit the 30+ site more frequently, I haven't joined any of the niche groups.  There is just something so - well, human about wanting to form little groups of 'I's' as opposed to 'thems'.

MMMmm...I will tell you what, when Jesus, Ghandi, Mohammad, Buddha, etc, get together and form a special group for themselves because the rest of us are just too many and too 'fluffy' for them to cope, I will think this a brilliant idea.  Ooh, [:O] I think I just made up my mind.  I think its a 'no'. [xx(][;)]

Then again, the more experienced do deserve some special place of their own where they can unwind, be themselves and in their element, so to speak.  What to do, what to do...maybe, form a free forum for those who are very active, long term members, ie, 1000 posts and two years membership before being allowed into this special area.  Not sure about this.

By the way, the other site continues to succeed despite these divisions, in a way it made them even more successful.  Maybe, people will just adjust.  Maybe I should vote yes!  [}:)][;)]

Why are you asking me, I'm a Libra!  Never ask a Libra to make a decision!  [:D]  Oh God, more fluff.  Sorry to those of you who bothered to read all of this.[:I]

(This is quite funny)

I've had 24 hours to think about my vote and am now ready to tick the box.  I think the advantages of the new section outweigh the disadvantages, so I'm voting yes.

However, yesterday I clicked on Show Results to see how it was going, and I can't get back to the voting buttons now!!

What do I do?  Help - I want to vote!

Sarah

Hi all

I have been reading posts as a non member for the last 6 months.  I feel that it would be a pity to a have a private section.  I have valued reading posts from those more experienced than me.

I really like the idea of a section that is by invitation only, but everyone would still be able to read the discussions.
Thats my 10 cents worth
Rainbow

In all honestly, i'm not quite sure what to make of this at the moment. However, i must say that my initial reaction is that i don't like the idea, for reasons pretty much already stated. Really though, it all depends on what this new proposal does to the social environment of the entire board. There are a lot of possibilities, i'm sure, but the one that worries me is the prospect of seperation/isolation.

Before i post an entire point of view essay on this ([:P]) in interested in what kind of environment the mods envision within the new boards. Is it possible to get some examples of what kinds of topics you mods expect, what exactly is this high level of focus, and what you mean by "strict" moderation?

I'm still undecided so i won't vote just yet. I need to understand more about these forums before i cast my vote.

EDITED x2- Sorry I'm dumb lol I forgot more stuff! Read again please.

MAN, c'mon? You gotta be kidding me, so now I'm gonna have to pay to have access to and read all the really good discussions? All of my favorite places are starting to charge to get into "premium" sections. First Rense.com, then another forum I go to, then a bunch of other websites that used to be free, and now Astral Pulse? $45 dollars for ISP and email access there, $20 here, $10 dollars there for membership, $100+ over there for Rense.com and Coast to Coast over there, it all adds up, and the internet is starting to get more expensive then magazine subscribtions. The Internet is not the cool free or cheap information resource enitity that it used to be. How much MORE do I have to pay to use or read my favorite things now?  Who's to say that some morons will pay the money and WONT make stupid or overly unnecessary argumentive and overly attacking posts in the paid section? There's morons and non-serious immature people that have money too you know. The only way to truely restrict access to a more serious or "mature" section is to make an invitation-only and/or request section, with membership access based on the posters posting history, but that sucks too because sometimes it gets abused and ends up turning into an elitist environment. I would still opt for the latter option. If this site starts to charge to see all the good stuff ("additions"), I'm leaving, or at least going back into lurker mode and not trying to get better at posting (I've been trying to post more lately, but don't have that much time right now, so it's mostly been a few posts here and there, and some links to news articles), or not taking the site seriously, because I know all the good stuff is happening where I can't see it, so why bother?

quote:

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Originally posted by pyro4571

i will leave if i gotta pay
i am broke...........

---

The more I see posts like this, the more I appreciate Adrian's idea.

You will not need to pay to have access to the original board!  Payment is for the subscriber section ONLY.

I am not here as much as I used to be so I am not up to par on what the problems are in the forum at this time, however I would pay the $10.00 just to help the server situation.

It wouldn't be for everyone and if I am understanding this right, nothing would change in the forum.  It would only add.

I'm for it, but when this goes into effect, I would like to be sent an email so I could help and take advantage of this.

I already have paypal since I am an avid ebayer.

Jenn

If the pay-members only section is for the more . . . uhm, intellectual conversations, then good for them. I think as soon as I finish posting this, I'll go vote yes, otherwise I'll just not vote at all. My point is (well, for what I've read so far, I've come to this conclusion) that these people who go into the pay-members section can also come back to the non-pay-members section (if they want to). Besides, won't the mods have to check in and make sure we're not destroying everything or something? I don't know, really, but I suppose that's my two cents worth. (Or at least the two cents that I'm picking up from everyone else.) Let me ask everyone a question (if I hadn't already asked): Will you (pay-members) be visiting the non-payable sections? If not, then one day (this sounds cruel and morbib . . . oh well [}:)]) all of you will be gone and nobody will have learned anything that probably would have helped the rest of us non-pay-members (i'm trying to say that I want for this pay-section to at least be readable). I apologize for my lack of grammar at this moment, 'cause I still pouring everything into my head.

Hi everybody. It is not very often i wrote in the forums, but i really like many of the topic. I think it is sad, if you have to pay to use all the forums in astralpulse. I think that astralpulse is the best homepage about OBE/AP that i know about. I think also that it will ruin astralpulse. Becuase it prevent new unexperince astral travelers, asvel new experince traveler to use the forum.
I dont think that 10$ a year is expensive, but the intention of taking money, is not a good concept.

So i vote NO

Greeting

Thomas00

once again,
1) for all those that claim that original forum will be the same, and this will only add things, think again, becouse some will move to subscribers section lowering quality of original forum, rest (like me) will move out of the forum becouse there will be only newbies to talk with
2) this will end up like reiki social club with 10000 $ for mastery, with elitism and ego boosting, so everyone will suffer (conciously or not)
3)masses reading this forum will suffer, and we need everyone to develop to help others to develop and end this insanity which we call modern western civilization
4)to everyone, post everything you have on your mind, don't be discouraged by other posts, you never know what will happen
Edit: i vote no, from above reasons

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thomas00

Hi everybody. It is not very often i wrote in the forums, but i really like many of the topic. I think it is sad, if you have to pay to use all the forums in astralpulse. I think that astralpulse is the best homepage about OBE/AP that i know about. I think also that it will ruin astralpulse. Becuase it prevent new unexperince astral travelers, asvel new experince traveler to use the forum.
I dont think that 10$ a year is expensive, but the intention of taking money, is not a good concept.

So i vote NO

Greeting

Thomas00

---

Thomas00,

If you would just take a moment and look back on all the posts, you will noticed that it is said..several times, that you DO NOT have to pay to have access to the original board.  Payment is for the subscriber section only.  

Nay [^]

quote:

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I want to read everything and participate without paying anything.
Making people pay for a forum is just stupid.

---

Stupid?  as in stupid to pay people for their work and the use of their ressources...?

I'm tired of hearing some people complain that they shouldn't have to pay for this or for that.  If you don't want to pay, just don't.  period.  No one forces you to come here and pay.

I guess you don't pay for the software you use?  You don't pay for the music you listen to?

And the typical answer" "it's just bits, it does not cost a thing to copy it" is stupid.  Software developers are supposed to get paid by selling their software.  Musicians are supposed to get paid by selling their music.

Edit: Bolded for Logorat that cannot read: Who is paying for the server hosting the forum?  Who is paying the person who takes care of it?  Who is paying for the net access?

When you get your utility/telephone/insurance bills... do you tell them that you don't want to pay because it should be free...?

We are not talking about software here, we are talking about a forum.

So in fact your admitting there is reason for some peole to leave the forum?

I get a lot of PM's and Emails for various things.  I try and answer everyone with the time it warrants.  I don't have a problem sharing knowledge, but I do reserve editorial rights.  No need put guns in the hands of children, to coin a USA metaphore.

I guess your assuming the intermediate users will stop reading/posting the "lesser forums"?  Not.  What will in fact happen is the "pay" forums won't see a lot of action, and what's there will probably be esoteric or quite specific.  And if $10(us) is too much, then how about the equivalent in local currency.  By that I mean approximately 2 hours average wage, 10 loafs of bread worth?

quote:

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I kind of think payment should not effect what is under your name.

---

I agree completely.

lol, this is so funny!

quote:

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Originally posted by LogoRat

lol, this is so funny!

---

So true!

Well, once I think about it, I'd gladly pay if we can do it with money orders or something. I could manage that. I reckon paying money to be able to learn more, and avoid the posts that are a waste of time is worth it....

As long as we remember to post on the other section too, to help the ones who are still in the process of learning. It isnt right to forget them, and leave them out in the cold. They are where we once were after all.....

I don't think making people pay to access a private only section of the forum is a good thing.  I say this because like others i believe that the more advanced people will go off there and forget about the newbies who will get nothing out of this and eventually leave.  Now if the more advanced users would not forget where they started out and help there brothers i could see it working.  I agree that the forums need to be upgraded and maintained and this costs money.  Maybe a bigger donation link is the answer?  Im sure some regular users would not mind giving up a few dollars to help these forums stay free and fast.  It would be the least they could do for all the hours of reading/searching/learning that goes on here.

my humble opinion

though currently I won't be able to afford the $10, I do believe it is worth it on the basis that the work put into this site and community deserves help from those who participate, and with subscribers it will be easier to mediate the threads rather than having thousands of posts each week to get through.

SOme time in the near future if this does go through, I would be happy to spend a menial $10 a year, thats just a little more than .83 cents a month.

What will probably happen.  A few people will pay the money.  Discussions will happen for a bit, but probably stagnate and die off after a bit as the real discussions will invariably take place with the other part of the populous.

That's just my prediction though.

Again, as I suggested (and think I was the first to suggest), I am for this idea, IF AND ONLY IF, non subscribers can view the subscriber forums, but not post.  This acts as an incenitive to sign up so that posting can be done, as well as keeping information open and free, as it should be.

I wholeheartedly agree with blackstream about everyone being able to read the posts.  

Most large forums invariably have to be regulated to allow any sort of 'work' to be accomplished.  Imagine if every citizen with an opinion or personal question had an open mic in congress or in the senate.  It just wouldn't work as effectively.

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackstream

What will probably happen.  A few people will pay the money.  Discussions will happen for a bit, but probably stagnate and die off after a bit as the real discussions will invariably take place with the other part of the populous.

---

I've seen that happen to a lot of boards.  Doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen to this board, of course, but if not then it'll be the first time I've ever seen a segragation work.

You, the owners and admin/mods have the power to change the forums to the way you want it to flow, yet you're considering taking the easy way out and want to segregate the community, on which there will be no guarantee it will work. Like it has already been mentioned, it probably will end up stagnating and the people will go back to the original parts of the forum, or the newbies will be stuck reading everyone elses newbie posts and then they won't learn much. Why don't you just get more mods, from trusted veterans even, if there isn't enough people you know to help out, and make new posting rules, and crack down harder on unwanted posts? You gotta make everything so complicated and start charging for this and segregating that, unless you're just doing this for the money...

There is quite a bit of Thread Hijacking and off-topic posts.  That's common on a small forum(for which this is).  There are a lot of "hey me too!" posts, which is probably okay, but usually better handeled in a PM.

ughhh

I think that this discussion it is getting a little "hot".

Everyone as it´s own opinions and reasons for that and we must respect it. The ones that dont wanna pay, argue that a forum should be free and/or that paying something in the internet may cause some problems (example: underage members, poor countrys cannoot pay, fear of the internet (me[:)]),etc). People that wants to pay argue that 10$/year it´s nothing and that will bring more deep discussions, returning astralpulse forum to the original level.

Every argument it is correct, and there should be a concern related with every argument, postive and negative.

I would like to hear a little more the opinion of Adrian. Maybe he have new ideas to resolve some problems.

I would like to hear the opinion from the super elite projectors out there, what do they have to say.
Robert Bruce among others.
Where are they really, are they still here!?

All of us are like individual cells trying to make the judgements on the rest of the body. (thanks blackbox).

If you just did your part and posted on subjects that mattered to you, we'd have a great forum - and we do. I pity the old forum members. Read some Epictetus. (and reread italicized text in this paragraph for full effect).

I just have to add one more thing.  I find it absolutely helarious that people are 'mad or appearing to be mad'.....because they are being given an option of having 'more'...

So what if it's 10's bucks.  I spend much more on that all the time on pure bs.. and I'm sure you all do too.

I havent' been here in a while but I'll be back and pay the 10.00 bucks to simply weed all this out.

Noone and certainly not a forum will make make you obe.  It can only give you ideas and suggestions on what to use and what methods to use. Buy the books by Bruce for more help.  They are all great~ [and more than 10-bucks....{hmmm}]

Now.........I am on the other threads.  Good luck everyone in making your decision.

Sincerely and cheers,
Blossom/Jenn

my two cents worth,

In the spiritualist school that I am in, they ran intot he same problem.  advanced students were complaining that when they posted a question, they were inundated with junior students replying with other questions.  So the topic of an advanced forum came up.

The idea was to create an advanced board where advanced students could post questions for teachers to respond without the tens of responses from other students.  this meant that there was less time looking for the teachers/other advanced students answers and actually reading them.  the junior students would be allowed to read the posts to gain knowledge.  The PM's were available so that the junior students could still contact the advanced students for questions, therefore not segregating the students.  Also, the advanced students were asked to still visit the other forums to answer questions.

I would like to say that it did work.  It actually did two things.  It allowed the advanced students to get the answers they needed without weeding out the junior's questions and gave the junior classes more indept knowledge to learn from.  It also made teh advanced students less stressed out from weeding out "fluff"(as there was none) and giving them more time to search the junior boards and leaving questions they WANTED to answer.

In all, if you have a board where there is a high level of discussion, then there should be a provision that allows other viewers to at least view it for their own education.  Then, as they get enlightened, they can join the paying board.

As for those who can't pay but are experienced, then make the non-paying boards your realm and make it what it was.  Ask Adrian to make you a moderator and control it.

Ken Mason

I've been a user here for only a while, and few people will have heard of me, but that's because I mostly read, rarely post. Most (beginner-) questions have been asked already anyway.

I have not voted yet. I don't intend to vote, because I think the options are too limited.

• If there is to be a new forum, then it should definitely be viewable to the world, regardless of the way the users can obtain allowance to post into that forum.
  


• Having to pay to post in the new forum is kind of 'not fair'... I would agree that AP could very well use the money, for whatever purpose that would benifit its users, but it is not good to put a lign between members that can pay and those that can't.
  
  Therefore, my suggestion is to start with a number of obviously advanced users (for free). The moderators could make up this list. After that, any member that wants to post in the advanced forum must ask to be considered, and then everyone that is already member in the new forum should (anonymously) vote whether this person is worth to be allowed. The reasons why somebody should be allowed, should be their posts in -this- forum, that Advanced Users can review.
  Advanced Users should also not be afraid to vote 'no'. I really think the Advanced Forum should be some sort of an Elite group (in my eyes at least).
  
  This way, and only in this way I think, can you group the more advanced people.
  
  About the money; there should really be some sort of a donation possibility. I would gladly donate like $25, but wouldn't pay $10 for the forum because I'm only a beginner anyway.
  
  Beginners can have $10. Anyone can have $10. Therefore, in this way, there will always be 'unworthwhile' members in the Advanced Forum. ==> membership should be DESERVED, not bought!

Sygmoral

Why hasn't anyone suggested the most obvious answer:

Write the password of the week on Adrians computer, if you can OOBE there to read it (or far view) then you get in.  The real way to seperate the wheat from the chaff!  Of course it will make his house awfully busy [:I]

Leave the paid forum visable, but not postable, by everyone for three or four months so that all can see if this is an investment that they want to make.

After that the paid subscribers can post their ten dollar thoughts with more privacy.

HS

quote:

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Originally posted by Rastus

Write the password of the week on Adrians computer, if you can OOBE there to read it (or far view) then you get in.  The real way to seperate the wheat from the chaff!

---

Yes. Do this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Phong

quote:

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Originally posted by Rastus

Write the password of the week on Adrians computer, if you can OOBE there to read it (or far view) then you get in.  The real way to seperate the wheat from the chaff!

---

Yes. Do this.

---

It would prolly be better to have a symbol of some sort since from what I hear, it's kinda hard to see words that are irl, in the astral.  Dunno why, but apparently it is.  Of course, it's a bit harder to set up a password system for a symbol :p

If you become a member to that extra paid forum by paying $10 per year, you may still be a newbie and a fluffbunny.

You will not make it an advanced and focused forum, you will only make it a Payer forum, it will not make it any different except that those that are there have a creditcard.

Maybe Adrian could try the idea for one year (or half a year and half the price). If it looks like that there are no differences between paypal forums and free forums, so he could end up with the first ones (paying forums).

Where is Adrian? I wanna ear the opinion that i has.

Greetings Kazbadan,

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kazbadan

Maybe Adrian could try the idea for one year (or half a year and half the price). If it looks like that there are no differences between paypal forums and free forums, so he could end up with the first ones (paying forums).

Where is Adrian? I wanna ear the opinion that i has.

---

All I can say is that this entire situation is under review and we will do what is right for all concerned; of that you can be sure.

Our absolute objective is a high quality forum where all members have complete respect for each other at all times irrespective of knowledge or experience. Be assured that we have the very best interests of all sincere seekers of the truth in mind always.

With best regards,

Adrian.

I think the subscription idea is a good idea in that it will:

1)  Limit those who are really interested in these subjects. So that more meaningful discussions can take place.

2)  It will also be quicker to find relevant posts by more experienced members which will also help with answering questions only more experienced members can answer.

3) Reduce the amount of "static" from well intentioned, but not experienced members.

4) The money will help maintain the website.

On the negative side I think it will:

1)  Create a "brain drain" from the original forums. Which will cause more confusion for beginners and those that can't access the advanced forums for whatever reason.

2)  If the new forums can't be read by nonmembers I think it would deprive the community as a whole from thoughtful discussions and insight. If someone wants a message to be private then use private messaging.

Some thoughts:

1) I think it would be a great idea to have an area where only experienced members can post but others could read. So experienced users get answers from experienced users and newbies can learn more.

2) To join the group post requirements for being considered an experienced member. Such as actually having had an OBE, fully read Astral Projection, etc.. Then ask the moderator to join the group.

3) I've also found the forums to be so large, and there are so many newbies, that the forums are jammed with basic questions and uninformed answers that make it more time consuming to find more advanced help.

4) Creating guidelines for posting and enforcing them will help reduce the amount of static in the forum.

5) If money is needed then post stats on what is needed and how much is collected. Many people will give money if they know it is needed. Have a balance sheet of how much is needed.

Yes: I would welcome a highly focussed subscription only service for $10 per year
--I would if it was necessary to keep the forums on the internet.

No: I have no interest in joining a highly focussed subscription only service
--I don't think a subscription service is necessary to have more focused forum.

Money is not an answer to this problem.
I vote NO.

I understand that all old forums will be free.  All new elite forums will be available to subscribers only. Is it correct? Does it mean that someone browsing and looking for information, as you can find now in Frank's messages, will find only basic Q&A topics? All valuable thoughts and experiences will be inaccessible to them, such a pity!  More people will be left alone with their 'stupid' questions and doubts.  I think these new forums should be visible to all interested in OBE/AP, etc.  

I'll pay $10. I am a reader, and I love to learn from smart and intelligent people. I think I am not alone on this.

Elena

I think it would be great to have a forum that is heavily moderated and has mature people posting in it.  

On thing that I am not sure about is the issue of people under 18 not having the chance to be part of this new forum (I am 15).  I know that my parents would never let me use their PayPal account to pay for this...hell I would be thrown out of the house if they knew I visited forums such as AstralPulse.

*Shrug* I guess I would find some way to pay for it...

I agree with the prospect of having a more exclusive and focused discussion forum.  With one exception...I think it is incredibly important for Energetic/Energy Body Development to be included in the pay only forums.  For many of us, myself included, that is the foundation for everything else.  I think excluding that subject matter/topic would be a great loss to members who do subscribe to the new forum.

6257 members * $10 = $62,257.00 for a year, not bad [:D]
Of course, not all of them would pay.  Maybe 10% would?
Again, an alternative to a yearly fee would be banner ads...
But that removes the filtering aspect; being good and/or bad.

sorry

shame on you!

Alright, I think I've got it.

Focus isn't missing as much as critical discussion is. Create a new forum section called "Exegesis" that only allows critical reflections of assertions, experiences, theories, and published works (including Bruce's treatise). What follows are suggestions for rules followed by specific examples of how they are unique from the rest of the forum.


• No opinions will be expressed unless they are supported by arguable foundations. The rest of the forum allows statements of "I believe..." without further support. If an assertion is to be made it must be supported.

• No work shall be referenced without bibliographical record. The rest of the forum allows statements of "I heard that..." without attributing specific credit. If another author says such-and-such, then quote it with the title of the published work and the page number or the website URL.

• Explanations of personal experiences will be in-depth and fundamentally precise so as to undergo public scrutiny, and will be followed by the author's own supportable opinion. The rest of the forum allows members to share experiences without personal reflection, giving license to immediately ask questions like "what did I experience..?" which are nigh impossible to answer with credulity.

• No theory of astral projection will be allowed unless supported by the author's own past sensory experience. The rest of the forum allows members to rudimentarily theorize about phenomena based on other people's experiences and not necessarily their own. In an academic setting this is dishonest.


As the last sentence suggests, these rules are derived from an academic context. They require the author's statements to withstand formal review. Since we are mostly agreed that meditation, dreams, lucid dreams, AP, OBE's, etc. fall within a continuum of awareness, anyone who has closed their eyes has something to contribute. These rules do not, and should not, exclude anybody, but provide a framework for focused and meaningful discussion.

Any thoughts?

Greetings everyone,

Thank you all very much indeed for your valued comments so far.

I can assure you that these are certainly all being taken into account, and it is by no means certain that any sort of membership fee will be involved. Money per se simply is not the fundamental issue here. The objective is rather to create and maintain a level of forums that we all enjoyed for the first year or so of the Astral Pulse as many members will I am sure remember.

I would be the first to state quite categorically that all contributors and contributions to these forums are most welcome, as well as fully recognising the fact that everyone is on their own individual path, all requiring differing levels of knowledge and experiences, which after all is why we are all here on Earth this time around as is the case during each incarnation; we come to Earth each time for a specific purpose, and the purpose of each person is unique and individual. The Astral Pulse will therefore continue as it is with the existing forums in order to meet the aspirations of as wide a range of people as possible without any restrictions aside from the forums standards of conduct.

However, at the same time, many members, especially the original ones, have been deterred due to the way these forums have evolved over the last 12 months or so, and these are members who often have very valuable contributions to make as well as seeking further information and knowledge on their own paths. It is these people who we are seeking to bring back to a forum environment which is of most value to them and all others who share that environment.

This is in no way elitist or any other such notion, but rather we have to accept the reality that everyone is here to learn different things in different ways, and it is not always compatible with the next person; that does not make the aspirations of any member any more important than the next member, it is just the way it is.

I can assure everyone that, with the moderators, I most definitely will be taking the appropriate action quite soon to further my intentions to provide concurrent forums, which, togther with the Astral Pulse, will meet the requirements and aspirations of everyone. Whether this will be by subscription or not, or indeed within the Astral Pulse has yet to be decided, but again you can be sure that I am taking into account all of the comments here which I appreciate.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Greetings Adrian

I just want to thank you and all the moderators for doing a good job in keeping the forum as coherent as it is.I agree it would be good to refocus on the original topics.

Keeping a handle on the forum the way it is at present is like trying to herd cats!

Happy Trails

Seems Like a cool idea to me. Some people do not understand the concept. You have a green light from me [^]

This is just uinnecessary stirring of the pot bu

quote:

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However, at the same time, many members, especially the original ones, have been deterred due to the way these forums have evolved over the last 12 months or so, and these are members who often have very valuable contributions to make as well as seeking further information and knowledge on their own paths.

---

So there's a significant number of quality members who have stated the decline of general content as their principal reason for leaving?
That would be a good reason to realign the forums but I still doubt money, especially a nominal sum, would change much.

How about starting the new forums as invitational by Adrian and senior moderators initially and then by general and open and vote for each new applicant/invitee to the new forums. You could still allow reading access to the general population.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

Yes, a special forum for moderators and old posters.

I just would like to know when it´s gonna be taken a decision.

im sorry but i disagree. i think that the forum splitting is a good idea, but pay no. no paying only because i feel that astral pulse will lose many members especialy me, and not the fact that i have to pay but the fact that im not allowed to pay. my parents forbid it. and besides i dont have a credit card..

one more time
we all agree that new forums will be visible
subscribing doesn't guarantee high quality, but idea of invitation forum seems appealing, one thought, why not use memebers introduction forum, where one will state what he can do, what he read and such, in this manner it could be possible to suggest filling books and sites to newbies, as well as more advanced people, and at the same time avoid basic questions and save time, it would also help if links section was simplified and visible from forum page
i would like to hear your comment on that adrian
wish i thought more before voting ...

quote:

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Originally posted by Adrian
...as well as fully recognising the fact (sic) that everyone is on their own individual path, all requiring differing levels of knowledge and experiences, which after all is why we are all here on Earth this time around as is the case during each incarnation; we come to Earth each time for a specific purpose, and the purpose of each person is unique and individual.

---

These aren't facts.

Instead of bolding, italicizing, or underlining that remark, I will state it again and attempt to make the matter explicit.

These are not facts. They are assumptions. When taken as truth, they become postulates of theosophist pantheism, a very common and pervasive modern religious movement associated with the New Age.

Now, that's not a bad thing. But acting as though they are truths is done so through faith-based interpretations of experience.

There's nothing very wrong with asserting these to others, but, please, do not attempt to establish them as "fact," because A) you might be wrong (and probably are, in my opinion) and B) doing so proliferates the similar cognitive dissonance as when other religions assert their assumptions as truth.

If anyone is interested in starting a discussion in another thread regarding the implications or validity of these statements, please let me know. Whenever I bring this up it seems to go over everyone's head.

[edited for diction]

Well Phong seems like you know all the answers...*sigh*  

quote:

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If anyone is interested in starting a discussion in another thread regarding the implications or validity of these statements, please let me know. Whenever I bring this up it seems to go over everyone's head.

---

You just want to argue.  I know lots of people like that, they aren't happy unless they got their little noses all bent out of shape, with a audience to hear them.  It gets very tiresome and boring very quickly, listening to these people.

Nay

Is everyone on the same path as you Phong??  ROFL - then how can it go ever everyone's head?  If everyone was just like you, THE IMPLICATION IS everyone would understand perfectly.  This is not so - and that is not an assumption.

I leave you to make your own conclusion.  ;)

I love you Phong, you complete me.

ive read through all these posts and i believe that everyone makes good points, and i wish i had read through them before voting. If "fluff" posts are such a big problem, how about making a section for posts like "is this an OBE" and such so it would be out of the way of other topics? I know that a lot of the more advanced people wouldnt want to read those, so they wouldnt have to... and for the people who want to help out the newbies can do so.

I think the idea of splitting up the forums can be good becasue it'd be helpful to have a spot which only contains information that more advanced people could respond and give their ideas. However, i agree with a lot of people when i say i dont think paying is a good idea. As a few have said before, i would pay if i could. My parents dont like me doing this stuff and i know for a fact they wouldnt let me pay for it with their account (im 15 also so i cant get my own yet). Just becasue you are under the age of 18 doesnt mean that you arent as advanced or mature as the others. I like the idea of having people be invited/ask permition to be able to use them, because then everyone who wants to use them can be checked by the mods to make sure they arent going to just be putting fluff stuff in the advanced forums.
I also agree that they should be viewable for everyone. Even though i wasnt there when the forums first started, i have loved this place and i hope whatever changes there will be will be for the better.

~*~ Mazdaaf ~*~

i dont like this idea... mainly because there is no way that i could convince my dad to spend 10 bucks a month on something he doesnt know exists. and if this idea goes through - which it probably will - a lot of the people will leave the so called "free forum" reducing it to a place where nobody knows anything, and everyone gives stupid, cheesey useless advice!! All in all, i think this is JUST a way for the supreme dieties of this forum to make few bucks - not that they dont deserve it! but rather then choosing who could join based on if you actually have money, i think senor members of this site should vote on possible candidates of people to be accepted. i dont want to get left in the dust, and i dont think the people who are rather experienced but dont have an extra $10 dollars to spend want to either. (btw if something like this has already been said, i didnt see it - i'm not gunna read through 8 pages!)

quote:

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mainly because there is no way that i could convince my dad to spend 10 bucks a month on something he doesnt know exists.

---

Ok..one more time folks..it is 10 dollars a YEAR.

Nay

I clicked on View Results and now it won't let me vote!

ok when we can expect results, decisions, maybe a new pool with more options like:
new forums opened to viewing y/n,
payment y/n,
invitation only y/n
ruthless fluff moderation y/n
hall of shame y/n
you get it ... ???

I don't know what to say, on the one hand the forums are so big that I only have time to check out a couple on a regular basis, sometimes the same questions keep getting asked over and over(which I will answer if I feel like I can contribute something), people do seem to leave after a while, i'm not really sure why, but it would be nice to have serious people stick around.
Maybe the moderators could create a topic for people to state what they want from this forum?
I always thought that this forum was associated with Robert Bruce? Is he no longer a part?
One other thought- what if people could hang around free for 6 months or 6 weeks then they would have to join?

• About everyone agrees that the new forum should be visible to all. So I suggest you don't comment on this except if you think it should NOT be visible to all...


• The 10 dollars (per year) is just an 'example' - this is not at all a definitive amount yet, it is not even certain that you would indeed have to pay. Perhaps it will be a one-time fee, who knows. Whatsoever, it would be affordable to all; the only problem seems to be that some people simply can't pay online.


• If you can not vote on this forum, then that is because you took a look at the results already... if you do that, you vote anonymously.

About the payment: actually everyone can pay. Really. If you can't pay online, just send well concealed cash in an enveloppe. It's not at all the nicest way, but it works. And if the admin's don't agree with this - I'll pay for you with my PayPal account, and then just send the cash to me ;)


About the 'invite only' idea: it seems many people don't like this idea, while some others do. But what I meant: I have some 'vision' about these forums really becoming some kind of academy, you know. It has the potential! This forum is already a great learning centre, but the thing that differs it from my view as an 'Academy' is that it is not 'organised' enough anymore, because it got too big. My proposal is therefore to have 'teachers' and 'students', ... I really mean this! (but with other titles of course)
Currently there are more than 5000 'equal' members all chatting through each other. Okay, "everyone is equal" and stuff, but you can't ignore the fact (yes) that some people are more experienced than others.
I think it could much improve the experience of everyone here. And in my view, the 'new forum' was a forum for teachers only, but it seems many people don't like that idea. However, like in a university or something, the professors can talk about their complicated matters that students may have a hard time even understanding. And, they also come to gather with the students to help them in their way to a higher level of understanding. One day, such a student can seem to become so great in understanding that he can be considered a 'professor/teacher'.

However, students are supposed to pay for the lessons that teachers give.. I mean - teachers shouldn't have to pay to help others.



It probably sound somewhat weird, but I hope you get the idea. I think it would be really nice.

Sygmoral

I speaked with Adrian in PM and he agrees that i will be the guy charged for the money. So, you can start sending me money into my account.


Oh, and the price it is much more cheaper: 3 dolars.

btw, you must pay that quantity every month.

Start sending the money or myself will shutdown the entire AP forum, because without money we cannot work well.


Ok,ok, it´s now that Adrian will send a serial-killer to my house....damn it, let me run out of here!

I'm open to checking it out. As I understand it, everything here will remain the same, and IN ADDITION TO what is here there will be a highly focused pay addition. I'm up for checking it out. It may make for a truly more focused and progressive avenue to interact in.

Thanks for the poll.

Cezyl

Well, Jaclyn on pg 1 pretty much summed up my thoughts. I'll bet that there are a lot of serious, mature teenagers who are... well... don't like to talk about this to adults.I know if I had to pay I wouldn't, because of this, and then the majority of the other members would be in a "deeper discussion." The other boards would be almost dry of people to talk to. I know then I would leave this and have too look for another site like this, which would take a long time. Thank you for your time

Never more

quote:

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Originally posted by SoulDragon

Well, Jaclyn on pg 1 pretty much summed up my thoughts. I'll bet that there are a lot of serious, mature teenagers who are... well... don't like to talk about this to adults.I know if I had to pay I wouldn't, because of this, and then the majority of the other members would be in a "deeper discussion." The other boards would be almost dry of people to talk to. I know then I would leave this and have too look for another site like this, which would take a long time. Thank you for your time

Never more

---

I've looked and looked and can't find your opinions on page one, darnit! and this adds to my confusion.  

I will wait till I'm not confused to comment.[^]

Nay

Sorry you're confused, Nay. It was not my post that I talked about, but Jaclyn's, and it may have been on page 2.[;)]

Man, this thread is busy.


Never more

Oops,
Lola beat me 2 it.[:)]

LOL...I must be nuts, because I just can't find the Quote from Runlola...[:P]

I've searched every page...grrrrrrrr..now I need to check it again because of my compulsive nature.[;)] ok..checked it three times..I can't find your original post.  What the heck is going on?  Am I ummmmmmm.. a few beers short of a six pack or what?

Interesting that Runlola understood your post and helped back it up, but why is the question?....(for me anyways)

Nay

quote:

---

don't see why it's so confusing, Souldragon was
talking about Jaclyn's post on page one.

---

Hmmmm.see normally I wouldn't care, but ummmmmmm...can you show these posts?

Or are you saying that we should take your word for it?  I'm am sooooooo confused. *insert little confused eyes*  Souldragon is now taking his OWN post for someone elses??.. he is saying that is words were done by another person, thus misleading the populous to think they were is own posts?..

As you have heard, I'm confused...please straighten this out for me.  So Jaclyns post, were what you were commenting on,......lol.....Am I right?

Nope, I don't feel I got that right, let me try again....

You KNOW what Souldragon means when he/she post?  Why is this?  

Nay

P.S.. omg, I hope someone knows what I'm saying...

I find the $10.00/year nothing considering the information available and what it does for you.   After reading the available articles and after going through Mr. Bruce's works, it is completely okay for me!  [:D]

Mystic Man

LOL..still doesn't make sense that he took this to be his own thoughts..... I mean, REALLY, whom would have known?  According to his and your posts, WE should have KNOWN, that he was the one questioning.  I'm still confused..(call it a affliction) but that is what I am..... still confused.

Why are you the one chosen to uphold his shoulders?  Why are you the one to defend is ..ummmmmmmmmmmmm...defiance?    Why?

Nay

LOL..noooooooo, I think that is totally right, but if you could just SHOW me these posts, I ummmmmmmm..might shut up..[:P]

It really can't be that hard, you either show me what a bafoon I've been, or you shine in the light..it's that easy.[^]

Nay

I don't see insufficient focus as a problem in the present setup.
That is, most of the posts seem to be on the designated topic.
If there is not enough from the advanced people, it is because
they just don't post that often. They have been through a lot of this
already. But they do post when something gets their attention.
We like to hear from the advanced, but may have to wait for them to
become articulate. I would not expect that restricting things a little
would make them more articulate.

To be honest.....I have NO idea as to of what you just said...

I imagine it was great, and  filled with...............stuff.


Stuff is great..if it means something.

Nay

quote:

---

LOL..noooooooo, I think that is totally right, but if you could just SHOW me these posts, I ummmmmmmm..might shut up.

---

hee hee.....read the 15th post on page 1.

There you go !! [:)]

Nay's had a few too many cups of coffee tonight i reckon.... !!!

Off to the gym now. Have a good one, folks!
Mark

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoulDragon

Well, Jaclyn on pg 1 pretty much summed up my thoughts. I'll bet that there are a lot of serious, mature teenagers who are... well... don't like to talk about this to adults.I know if I had to pay I wouldn't, because of this, and then the majority of the other members would be in a "deeper discussion." The other boards would be almost dry of people to talk to. I know then I would leave this and have too look for another site like this, which would take a long time. Thank you for your time

Never more

---

In other words he made a post that parralleled what his opinion was.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaclyn

Adrian,
I may not be 18+ years, but when it comes to astral projection and OBEs I take it seriously. I've been searching for forums like this for some time now, although I have noticed many immature posters. But there are some people on the forums that I realize are very experienced in AP, and if I wasnt able to post with them anymore, my progress would slow dramatically. I'm not inexperienced when it comes to this subject, but I would love to understand it more, and if I'm stuck with a bunch of thirteen year olds who don't know what they're talking about, I have a feeling it just won't be the same.
I'm not able to pay the amount asked because of family rules, but I would really hate to lose the privilage of posting and viewing the forums.

---

(oops, seems me and clad made posts almost at the same time)

Anybody else see what I'm seeing? Moderators are playing!!!! They're PLAYING! Somebody help us, the whole world's gone insane! [B)]

hee hee, yes, we are human. Underneath our moderator labels we are really astralpulse members, ordinary people. I think.

Except EOL007, he's more machine now than man.

(joke - don't beat me up stephen !)


Kind regards,
Mark

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Oh, I'm awake now... what's happening?

S [;)]

Thank you for everyone who helped me help Nay understand why I chose what I chose which is also what Jaclyn chose... Yeah
Especially those who weren't too lazy 2 quote, like me.
And if this confuses everyone just skip my post or delete it or something.[:D]

LOL..I swear I couldn't find it to save my life!!

Well...my contacts are five months old now..eeks [:O] and I did have a couple beers last night, but sheesh.. not enough to make me go blind.[:P]

Electric sheep, Stephen?..LOL  

Nay

I still don't see what's wrong with "Pay $10 or AP to Adrians Computer to gain admittance" idea?

Besides, all the obnoxious posters are going to pay $10 anyway [:o)]

And for all you that think there are secrets to AP, go read teh "Focus 15" thread, because that's the stuff that's going to be talked about.  Or the virtues of Mental over Ethereic projections.  Just no posts on "I've been trying for 8 months and I think I had vibes last night" [;)]

I have a suggestion, Adrian. please do read this.
 What If the subscriber's forum and the regular forum be made free to all current members and new memebers pay the fee. The reason for this- not all of us knew we'd have to start to pay for some of these great resources. But the new members will already know before they indulge in it.
 I hope all of you consider this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynfer

I have a suggestion, Adrian. please do read this.
 What If the subscriber's forum and the regular forum be made free to all current members and new memebers pay the fee. The reason for this- not all of us knew we'd have to start to pay for some of these great resources. But the new members will already know before they indulge in it.
 I hope all of you consider this.

---

$10.00 / year is rather easy to obtain.  Just drive down the street and pick up a few soda cans and get easy deposit refunds!   Or how about some of that interest income from your savings?   So many ways to dig up the $10.00 its not even funny!    

Now if it goes up to $20 / year the following year because the door got open...well that's another thing!

I only visit once in a while but I don't mind paying 10 bucks for a good service.
The problem of immature posters wouldn't go away by charging money but it would certainly restrict a whole lot of people who doesn't have credit cards or are unable to pay using on-line means, thus we will keep a lot of immature posters and irrelevant topics away but we will also keep allot of people away.

The idea is good and I think that those that really want to make this work and is willing to give positive input to the topics being discussed will find a way to come up with the means to pay the $10.

I've been on allot of forums and being a moderator myself I know how "stupid" people can act even the mods and admin sometimes. People should look back to why they joined here and not take this forum as someplace where they can chat to their mates or behave like it's their backyards or something. We get too easily accustomed to being here and forget the seriousness of what this forum was designed for.

Its a bunch of crap, Walk away!

I would like to ask Adrian when are we gonna have a final decision.

Have you decided anything? Are you gonna make something different from the original ideas? When? etc,etc

I am curious about what is going to happen[:)]...


thanks

can we sponsor others ?

If it's $10 I would not mind to pay for someone else.

Esp. if they are under18 or they just do not have a job.

quote:

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Originally posted by MajorTom

Excellent idea!

---

Absolutely.[:)] To be purely honest, the information found on this sight, IMHO, is priceless. Think about all the universal understanding you have recieved from the Pulse. All the insight into the "world unseen, and unfelt", man, you can't get this stuff in school. Thank the almighty life force.[;)]

Maybe it has already been said, but I think you should just charge the ten dollars for access to any or all of the forums as they are.  

As long as it is just ten dollars for the whole year and not a monthly charge, I think it would be the best bargain on the web.

quote:

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Maybe it has already been said, but I think you should just charge the ten dollars for access to any or all of the forums as they are.

As long as it is just ten dollars for the whole year and not a monthly charge, I think it would be the best bargain on the web.

---

Sounds similar to what I said before, with the option that mabe a person could access the site free for a limited time. Too bad no one commented.  Also maybe we could give students a free ride?

As long as there are still forums left over for those specific topics that non-paying members can go to I'm happy. If it they were gone then I guess we'd just have to go to the Astral Chat section instead, and end up clogging up the place.

In other words, to be fair, I hope that there will be identical forums for those topics. One of them members-only, and the other to be for regular Joe members.

Also, I am hoping that if someone decides to pay for say...two months...can hop off the bandwagon and join up at the next pit stop. For example, if I were to pay for this for three months, not show up on the AP for about 4 months (as is often the case), then I want to come back to the member's service, I'd like to be able to re-subscribe.

Great idea though.

~FT

No I would Not Never EVER pay for a forum!

well... maybe not never, but its not likely.

Originally posted by Adrian



In recognition of the fact that everyone on the path has different needs and aspirations, we have since opened up the scope of the forums considerably to where The Astral Pulse is today. While it is clear that many members are deriving value from the forums, it is also true to say that many of the longer established members feel that they can no longer derive the same level of discussions as enjoyed previously for many reason, mostly relating to the consequences of a much wider range of topics and therefore members. This is a situation which the moderators and I feel compelled to resolve; we simply have to return to our original charter and focus.

Ok longer established members feel the level of the discussions have gone down, supossitly by the wide range of topics and the new wave of members it brings. Got that lets read on.

The moderators and I have accordingly considered a range of possibilities, (which?) and we feel that as so many members clearly enjoy The Astral Pulse in its current format and equally clearly derive benefit from it, we should enable The Astral Pulse to continue in its present form if at all possible for the benefit of all valued members.  Valued members. Ok Who are these valued members?

We are absolutely determined however to provide a means by which our original members, as well all those who seek much more than the existing open forums provide, can enjoy a very highly focussed, and strictly moderated range of forums which will not only provide the same focus as the  original Astral Pulse, but which will also go further thereby creating a resource of great value to its participants.

The forums which will be strictly members only and will be invisible to non-members,will only consist of the following 5 categories:

What is the reason for invisible forums, is restricting posting rights not enough? Or is that technicly not possible?)

Astral Projection (The main reason why people come here!)
OBE (same)
Spiritual Development
Metaphysics  
Quantum Physics

And of course will include all of the subjects that these encompass including for example Magic in the case of Metaphysics.

In order to reflect the nature of these forums we will be applying a subscription fee of just $10 per year payable in advance, a fee that has been decided on the basis that it should be affordable by all. The first month will be free of charge, so people who wish to cancel during the first month may do so at no cost. Fees will be payable through PayPal so that anyone with a credit card can easily join.

Ok valued members are those who pay? Not original members or others?

Problems:

1) Assuming only sensible members pay.

This is the biggest problem in your way of trying to create a forum where the level of discussion higher. Paying on the net these days is easy, esp for anyone over 18. This will not in anyway make sure the level of discussion will be higher. It is likely serious members are more likely to pay, but it does not make sure the quality of the post is higher. Also you will miss the extra activity you have now on the forum, this could also inpact your discussion negatively.

2) Assuming sensible members want to pay.

Chances not every valued member wants to pay, and you need those to have a high and active level of discussion.

3) Assuming people are Ok paying over the internet,or can at all pay, for a service like this.

This may hinder some people, maybe not alot.

4) New members are less likely to pay, as they do not know the value of this forum or the member forums, this will hinder people from learning about OBE.

This could be a problem, depends on how much you value new members.

As I see it, the effects of the change could be negative, but maybe not, it also depends on the persons, some people might prefer to have smaller and hopefuly beter community.

..but ,I have my doubts if it will work.

quote:

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Originally posted by Adrian
Our absolute objective is a high quality forum where all members have complete respect for each other at all times irrespective of knowledge or experience. Be assured that we have the very best interests of all sincere seekers of the truth in mind always.

---

I think the new forums should be open and observable to all rather than hidden, concealed and secret allowing the high quality contributions to be beneficial and appreciated by all. That way no one is deprived access to information from the high quality forums or deprived the freedom to contribute and benefit from these aleady existing forums. This would be in the interests of all.

I realise that this charging for the new forums is unavoidable and there is a considerable expense in maintaining such a large forum, with so many sub-forums. But to many of us in the Third World, ten dollars is not as cheap as it is for those of you in North America, UK, Europe, Australasia. In fact in real terms, ten dollars is about equivalent to sixty dollars to one such as myself. And I am far far better off money-wise than 90% of South Africans. And I don't think I can spare the money for now. So I will be passing on all this.

And I don't want to be the one to burst everybody's bubble, but not all or even most of the posts put up at astralpulse are of the highest quality, or even of a decent quality. And that is putting it politely. I also fail to see how charging people ten dollars is goint to raise the bar so to speak, as if the people who are going to pay the member's fee by the very fact that they are paying a fee, somehow means that their posts are going to be of a high value. Doubtless, even if moderated the standard of the posts in this new forum will be the same as it has always been - of mixed quality.

Although I'm sure there will be a lot of good stuff posted up that I and others will miss out on, especially if all the best posters with the most informative stuff start posting solely on this new paid member's only forum. In fact if this is what happens then one can expect the regular astralpusle forums as a consequence to decline in quality, but I hope I'm wrong in this regard.

Perhaps keep the forums free & open, and ask for donations?

Apparently, I think the main reason for a fee was more to filter members to leave out the trolls, and other annoying members who just post to flame people, etc... rather than to raise money.

Dear Adrian,

Your idea of another kind of forum is an interesting one. However the voting options provided I am sure will not reflect the views of the poll accurately since you have asked us to reply within such a limited format. For instance I would like to vote in a particular way but not for any of the reasons you suggest. It would be most inaccurate if I voted and you assumed the reason was the ones you have clustered together with the three answers.
'Yes', 'No' and 'don't know' would be preferable voting options IMHO,  than assuming the reasons for the answers would be so simplistic and uniform. Alternatively, a space for 'reason for decision' would give you an insight into why people find it a good or bad idea - thereby getting  the more honest feedback you need to measure true feelings and recieve alternative suggestions - and you would also have an accurate statistic of those in favour, not in favour and those who wish to abstain.

Paying for forums is NOT "unavoidable". What a bunch of nonsense, that's so not true.

People don't want to pay because of the price, it could be $1 a year and it still wouldn't make a difference. It's the PRINCIPLE of the matter.

Some people just DON'T WANT TO PAY, period.

Some don't believe in segregating the community. It defeats the purpose of what this forum, and other forums in fact, were originallly set up for, for a COMMUNITY.

Some don't believe that $$$ will fix anything. It's not the solution. It's like trying to fix the problem of filling a circular hole with a square piece, the two aren't related, and don't go together.

And quite frankly, who wants to pay for something where every thread de-evolves into a gelatinous puddle of personal attacks, neg paranoia, and hidden agenda accusations, like cult creation?  You honestly think $$$ will magically fix that and then everything will be okay again? No, it won't. If anything it will make it worse, cuz then people will start creating more stupid accusations like so and so is being stuck up because he's a paying member, and so on and so forth, a neverending cycle.

The only real solution, is to get to the core of the problem, not the outer skin. Get more mods that will do their job, reform the rules, and add an advanced debate forum (THAT'S OPEN TO ALL, BUT IS HEAVILY MODERATED, with non-serious and/or negative posts deleted or warned).

Maybe the $10 would concentrate the mind.  People might actually read the posts that they are replying to.

I miss the old forum.

It's a shame these days, with bandwith, running a site is not free.

Personally I'd rather prefer a "DONATE" option, I really thing that should have been in the POLL.

everything is going payware these days, you can't afford to
pay for everysite you use.


Donation would raise just as much funds, and you could censor the forums more. I don't like the idea of closed payware forums.

It should be optional, and encouraged, with say, discounts to other things, it has to be win/win.

I suggest you poll that idea, the donation idea is the best, and people who donate, get freebies, you know that kind of thing.

There are other options.

Donation would raise just as much funds, and you could censor the forums more. I don't like the idea of closed payware forums.

It should be optional, and encouraged, with say, discounts to other things, it has to be win/win.

I suggest you poll that idea, the donation idea is the best, and people who donate, get freebies, you know that kind of thing.

There are other options.

Well...

voting or not...yes or no...At the end I think the moderators will do whatever they "feel" is right, at the end of the day it's them who are "doing" (suposing)it and therefore want a focussed forum of those who have O.B.E's and want to share their experiences...
But...

Whatabout us? Do we have to go back to the old days and feel lonely in our "Quest" questioning if we are on our way to success?

I feel all this could end up in separatism

I think u should work on a better chatroom instead or if u wanna have a focused discussion...there is allways messenger...

Greetingzzz [|)]

I think i can see the real problem of Adrian.

He is trying to create an easy and no-controversial way to put people paying in this forums. Why? Because its hard to sustain a forum like this.

It needs good computers and good stuff to support it i believe, and i believe too that its hard to sustain (economically speaking)  such a site.

So, maybe Adrian, without trying to "hurt" people, maybe he is trying to create a way to sustain the forum.

i just wanna know when Adrian is gonna give the final word on this subject.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Kazbadan

i just wanna know when Adrian is gonna give the final word on this subject.....

---

I've been wondering too...shall I poke him with a stick.[;)]  

Of course, I'm kidding..Adrian would have my hide for poking him with a stick..[:D]

All kidding aside...do not worry, this topic is not falling on deaf ears..just alot of behind the scenes going on..be patient soon your answers will be answered..ummm..I guess..[:P]

Nay

Dear Astral Pulse Members,

Since its foundation in February 2002 the Astral Pulse has come a very long way, recently exceeding 100,000 posts, and during that time have hopefully been of value to members on your own paths. Myself and the moderators of the Astral Pulse thank everyone most sincerely for your valued support and contributions over that time.

When the Astral Pulse was first launched it was, as intended, very highly focussed on fundamentally Astral Projection, OBE, Psychic Defence, Energy and Metaphysics, and for the first twelve months or so the discussions were accordingly highly focussed and often in great depth.

In recognition of the fact that everyone on the path has different needs and aspirations, we have since opened up the scope of the forums considerably to where The Astral Pulse is today. While it is clear that many members are deriving value from the forums, it is also true to say that many of the longer established members feel that they can no longer derive the same level of discussions as enjoyed previously for many reason, mostly relating to the consequences of a much wider range of topics and therefore members. This is a situation which the moderators and I feel compelled to resolve; we simply have to return to our original charter and focus.

The moderators and I have accordingly considered a range of possibilities, and we feel that as so many members clearly enjoy The Astral Pulse in its current format and equally clearly derive benefit from it, we should enable The Astral Pulse to continue in its present form if at all possible for the benefit of all valued members.

We are absolutely determined however to provide a means by which our original members, as well all those who seek much more than the existing open forums provide, can enjoy a very highly focussed, and strictly moderated range of forums which will not only provide the same focus as the  original Astral Pulse, but which will also go further thereby creating a resource of great value to its participants.

The forums which will be strictly members only and will be invisible to non-members, will only consist of the following 5 categories:

Astral Projection
OBE
Spiritual Development
Metaphysics  
Quantum Physics

And of course will include all of the subjects that these encompass including for example Magic in the case of Metaphysics.

In order to reflect the nature of these forums we will be applying a subscription fee of just $10 per year payable in advance, a fee that has been decided on the basis that it should be affordable by all. The first month will be free of charge, so people who wish to cancel during the first month may do so at no cost. Fees will be payable through PayPal so that anyone with a credit card can easily join.

In order to assess the likely popularity of these proposals, please take time to register your choice in the following poll. This is very imporant to the future format of the Astral Pulse, and it is most important therefore that everyone has their say.

Please feel free to add your comments to this poll subject.

On behalf of myself and the moderators of The Astral Pulse, thank you very much.

With best regards,

Adrian.