Iraq War

[no_leaf_clover]

will that really work the way you want it? wouldnt you only be able to see the astral part of iraq?

[kakkarot]

"never know unless you try"

~kakkarot

[What Tha Phak]

hey that's a really good idea.. is anyone up to projecting during a peak time of the invasion?

or is what you would see just a made up reality of your imagination... you would have to be carefull to stay in the real time zone and not sway into an astral.

[Greytraveller]

Over the past several weeks I have made repeated attempts to project and see inside Iraq. With the possible exeption of what could have been a remote viewing episode where I saw three big generators in a huge underground room (beneath Baghdad?) all attempts were unsuccessful. On one occasion I came up against what appeared to be a huge pyschic shield that resembed an enormous brick and stone wall.
    Also I have yet to see any reports of anyone projecting inside Iraq. This is especially strange. With everything that has been happening it would seem natural for at least a few people to project into Iraq but apparently no one has been able to do this.
     Of course it is nearly impossible to know what is happening with certainly. My own guess is that some type of psychic shield or psychic wall has been put up around the top Iraqi leaders preventing the many projectors, OBEers and remote viewers from seeing inside Iraq. No doubt the US government has tried to see inside Iraq with remote viewers. Perhaps they were successful. In any event it should be much easier to project inside Iraq once US and British units begin their advance towards Baghdad. Then both the physical defenses and the psychic shield of the Iraqis will quickly begin to crumble.

[astralspinner]

I've read accounts in the past of something I think of as a Privacy Barrier - when people are doing something they don't want others to see, that desire for privacy/secrecy seems to manifest itself in the RTZ as a barrier that astral travellers find difficult/impossible to break through.

In a country that's about to be invaded, it's not hard to imagine the population wishing for a barrier between them and the outside world - after all, the outside world is about to start chucking explosives at them. And that subconscious desire for the outside world to STAY out could easily manifest on the RTZ as a barrier a Projector couldn't pass through.

So the barrier could well just be a natural creation of the population, rather than some kind of anti-psychic-spy measure.

[quant]

That sounds like a good explanation.

[Hephaestus]

Thank god for that, I was always worried somone on the astral could one day possibly see me having a poo poo on the tolet []

As for the war i'd love to project into Iraq but trying to project hasnt been easy lately, ive been too tired and been falling to sleep.

[noitarbiv]

I also projected to bahgdad but didnt see anything you described. what i saw was basically a ghost town, except for military presence.
One unusual thing i saw was dark streaks in the sky, kind of like thick grids extending across the city. It was unpleasant, but i didnt experience it as any kind of psychic shield keeping me from observing.

quote:Originally posted by Greytraveller

Over the past several weeks I have made repeated attempts to project and see inside Iraq. With the possible exeption of what could have been a remote viewing episode where I saw three big generators in a huge underground room (beneath Baghdad?) all attempts were unsuccessful. On one occasion I came up against what appeared to be a huge pyschic shield that resembed an enormous brick and stone wall.
    Also I have yet to see any reports of anyone projecting inside Iraq. This is especially strange. With everything that has been happening it would seem natural for at least a few people to project into Iraq but apparently no one has been able to do this.
     Of course it is nearly impossible to know what is happening with certainly. My own guess is that some type of psychic shield or psychic wall has been put up around the top Iraqi leaders preventing the many projectors, OBEers and remote viewers from seeing inside Iraq. No doubt the US government has tried to see inside Iraq with remote viewers. Perhaps they were successful. In any event it should be much easier to project inside Iraq once US and British units begin their advance towards Baghdad. Then both the physical defenses and the psychic shield of the Iraqis will quickly begin to crumble.

[goingslow]

How would you know you were really in iraq?

[DjMidgetMan]

Hmm... If I was good at projection i would try as much as I could. I just want to know what kinds of things are happening. America constantly suggests that the numbers of innocence in Iraq that will be lost will be very few because of their new "software" which allows for more accurate bombings. I just want to know if this is at all true, and what is really going on over there... [V]

[What Tha Phak]

MAybe theres a bunch of invisible UFOs flying around bagdhad which only a special technology can see and Iraq is aware of it and its really the US government teeamed up with an alien race trying to intimadate saying "new naw we have this technology..." but the realy funny thing is... if suddem hussein is a Nazi teeamed with china or north korea or some excrement planning to fulfil hitler's prophecies by conquering the world and makeing it all industrialized.  MAybe theres constantly psychic was between like aliens and humans that really know what s going on in the world and is for Human evolution to live with aliens and breed with them or maybe its all a conspiracy where the higher US rankers are really nazis and want to "kill the infedels" and they made HIV to control the population. Or maybe the one and onlyu 'god' really is "Allah" and we are going to be punished for not submissing... OR maybe... im just really high

"I smoke 2 joints in time of peace... and 2 in time of war... I smoke 2 joints before I smoke 2 joints and then I smoke 2 more..."[)]

[What Tha Phak]

Oh well, were all going to die from cancer at some point.  That is... unless we atone with our spiritual selves in time.

The war of the nations is who survives the longest

[weagle]

lets see the logic here on both sides and previous wars like yugoslavia/milochevich.  First thing they do is try and kill the leader this way the war ends immediately no casualties like they did with milochevich (ie bomb his mansion lucky he survived though).  Second scenario is if iraqi people fight you have to get them to surrender so you have to show to them how powerful you are so if they see them bombing military areas etc.. then if they see they have no chance to win then they will surrender.  Now the worst case is nobody surrenders, in that case one by one will die til they get to saddam hussein.  We all hope in any war it ends quickly and that the people surrender then very few will get killed.

>Hmm... If I was good at projection i would try as much as I could. I just want to know what kinds of things are happening. America constantly suggests that the numbers of innocence in Iraq that will be lost will be very few because of their new "software" which allows for more accurate bombings. I just want to know if this is at all true, and what is really going on over there...

[michael]

I astrally projected into the brains of the three three main"players" in the "Wolrd stage"..
In iraq president Saddam's head I was lost in a myriad of tunnels which were demented and disorganised and utterly delusional..
In Blair's brain i kept bumping against a massive ego that wanted to be somebody on the world stage..
In Bush's brain.....I had TOTAL freedom of movement..the corridors were empty..vacant..nothing there....

[DjMidgetMan]

hey what the phak, the one and only is god is Allah.... Allah is the Arabic word for God, and there is no god but God. If you really want to know what a Muslim is, it is someone who submits to God. It is believing that God passes his will over everything, and we are not the ones in control. We should realize that our freewill, our good fortune, our bad fortune, and all our power can not come to be without the will of God.

A Muslim is believing that this world is a test, and we were given our freewill by God to test us. We were given our souls to test us. Whoever does wrong to other people, they are wronging their own souls.
They will taste the evil of what they used to do in Hell.  Those who do good and have faith in God are helping their own souls. They will be rewarded for what they used to do in Heaven.

Jihad means to struggle, not 'holy war'. A martyr is one who fights against oppressors in the way of God. In the way of God simply means: no killing civilians, no killing soldiers who are unarmed or who surrender, and NO RISKING COLATERAL DAMAGE. In the times of Muhammad, jihad was usually fought if the religion of Islam was in danger of becoming extinct. Muhammad's enemies persecuted, oppressed and slaughtered his followers(and tried to kill him), because they wanted to wipe away the message of Islam off the face of the earth.

The Quran in my opinion is the final revelation to humanity, and a mercy unto mankind. Before Islam, Arabia was in complete chaos and anarchy. In a span of about 20 years, Islam turned the Arabs from unfaithful animals into completely civilized human beings. Islam ruled the Middle East in peace for over a millenium(except with a couple attacks from Mongols, Crusaders etc. etc.),. This ended when mainly the British broke up the Islamic empire, and turned the middle east into the chaos it is today.

[What Tha Phak]

DJMidgetMan, those are some mighty big words that I would love to contradict.  I could argue the one and only God's name is Jehovah, not Allah.  Tell me I'm wrong.  How do you know what is right?  The only reason you believe what you so believe in is becuase you believe in it!  If what you state is the truth of the way of the Muslim, then all participating in the Al-Queda society are going to Hell.

You know what I say?  I say the only Will running this world is God's Will, is a bunch of horse crap.  If I so choose to throw both of my middle fingers up at the sun and say "I am seperate from the source!," that would be MY will.  Why would God do that to itself?  I say the only truth out there for mankind is that of which we create and believe in.  The only Will that is controlling the fate of the world is that of the Self.  Being what... like 6 or 7 billion humans nowadays... we all contribute equally to the order and chaos which reigns in today's era.  In another couple thousand years, giving we still even exist, there will probably be yet another dominant religion with ways of living a "righteous" life, with yet another name of God.

If God's will really did dictate what goes on in the world and in peoples' lives then that force is very confused and f@cked up!  I say this because what kind of force would bring down a Messiah and tell the world what to believe in, saying it's Truth and "The only way," then a thousand years later give a completely different way of law and belief and say, "This is your last chance, you must submit." The way I see it, Muslims are only 'submitting' the existance of ourselves and it is really they who try to impose belief onto others.  

I think the whole idea is stupid.  My dad would always hang around these Arab guys and always had these saying... I can't remember what they actually said but it translated to "Only God permitting."  I hate that!  It is YOU permitting.  Are you trying to tell me that world hunger, suicides, the Columbia trajedy, 9/11, terrorist murder, pollution, and killing in the name of religion is all this Allah's Will?!?!  There is only the Self's Will.  Period. How could anyone argue against that?

You know what I believe?! Muhammad was not even a real prophet!  While meditating in a cave somewhere in that region of the world was him.  Suddenly a spirit appears in front of Muhammad (some say it was the arch-angel Gabriel, but my research says NO) and orders him to resite documents infront of him.  Trembling, Muhammad replies "I cannot read." The entity responds harshly, "Read these laws, for you shall be the leader of the Arab people." Muhammad could not read so the spirit told of the laws of the way of the Muslim.  

You see the problem here?  REAL prophets had this supposed "GOD" speaking directly unto them.  They had special divine powers which they would try to prove these miracles.  But nothing of Muhammad is of the like.  Muslims are just a bunch of people who developed their own belief system and think they are universally correct.    Well they are not.  There is no universally correct way of living.  We must decide for ourselves what is right and what is not.

I believe the judge of this "life Test" you speak of is NOT GOD or Allah, but it is YOU.  YOU look back on what you have accomplished in your life time. YOU judge what is right.  And it is YOU who will receive back 3x what you have given. (wicca's rule of 3)  The only God I believe in is that of the Self. Non other.

[DjMidgetMan]

quote:DJMidgetMan, those are some mighty big words that I would love to contradict. I could argue the one and only God's name is Jehovah, not Allah. Tell me I'm wrong. How do you know what is right? The only reason you believe what you so believe in is becuase you believe in it! If what you state is the truth of the way of the Muslim, then all participating in the Al-Queda society are going to Hell.

It doesnt matter what God's 'Name' is; its the concept that matters. And yes, acording to Islamic belief, Al-Qaeda would be going to Hell,basically because they give Islam a bad name. Usama USES and twists Islam and its concepts to his own personal goals, which is denounced in Islam.

quote:]"You know what I say? I say the only Will running this world is God's Will, is a bunch of horse crap. If I so choose to throw both of my middle fingers up at the sun and say "I am seperate from the source!," that would be MY will."

According to Islam, your will was given to you by God, and all your power is God-given. According to Islam, He could take your will away from you at any moment at any time he pleases, but once again life is a test, and you will be brought back to know what you had done with your free will.

quote:If God's will really did dictate what goes on in the world and in peoples' lives then that force is very confused and f@cked up! I say this because what kind of force would bring down a Messiah and tell the world what to believe in, saying it's Truth and "The only way," then a thousand years later give a completely different way of law and belief and say, "This is your last chance, you must submit." The way I see it, Muslims are only 'submitting' the existance of ourselves and it is really they who try to impose belief onto others.

[Quran 2:256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error;

No Muslim forces Islam upon anyone. This has rarely ever happened in history, and it doesnt even go on today. There is no Islamic government that forces Islam upon any non-Muslim.

quote:I can't remember what they actually said but it translated to "Only God permitting." I hate that! It is YOU permitting. Are you trying to tell me that world hunger, suicides, the Columbia trajedy, 9/11, terrorist murder, pollution, and killing in the name of religion is all this Allah's Will?!?! There is only the Self's Will. Period. How could anyone argue against that?

Once again, Self will comes from God. The wrongdoers will be punished for what they do. You are not separate from the will of God, because God wills you to have your 'self will' and God still has power over what you do. Wrongdoers will  be punished if they abuse their 'self will'.

quote:You know what I believe?! Muhammad was not even a real prophet!

Thats what you believe.

quote:You see the problem here? REAL prophets had this supposed "GOD" speaking directly unto them. They had special divine powers which they would try to prove these miracles. But nothing of Muhammad is of the like.

You could say that. Or you could say that he was illiterate and he brought to the world the most significant Arabic poetry that ever came into existence, today known as the Quran. And yes according to Islam, he did speak to God. According to Islam, He ascended the Seven Heavens(seven dimensions []) and when he reached the highest one, he spoke directly to God.

quote:I believe the judge of this "life Test" you speak of is NOT GOD or Allah, but it is YOU. YOU look back on what you have accomplished in your life time. YOU judge what is right. And it is YOU who will receive back 3x what you have given. (wicca's rule of 3) The only God I believe in is that of the Self. Non other.

How could you believe in the Self but not in God??? Did you create yourself??? Did you create the universe you are living in right now?? Surely the universe did not create itself, and surely you did not bring yourself to life. I am also very happy that the Wicca religion has a system of punishment and reward, this the basis to striving towards becoming a good person.

I did not mean to offend you or anything, its just that it seemed that you insulted my religion, and you seemed to exclude it as a bad religion from all others by saying: "Or maybe the one and onlyu 'god' really is "Allah" and we are going to be punished for not submissing."

[Tom]

It really is interesting to hear about Islam from the point of view of someone who is not trying to prove anything. The "just the facts" approach helps me much more than any other.

Something which has been necessary for me to learn with my own religion is that the culture it developed in and the people who practice it are separate from the religion itself. When the general public is involved, some people are going to get confused and other people are going to distort things intentionally. Sorting through conflicting beliefs, opinions, and practices has helped me to clarify where I stand within my own religion. Learning about religions other than my own is another matter. It is still too easy for me to get confused or to be caught up in ideas which are only held by a few people.

[What Tha Phak]

Tom says:

quote:It really is interesting to hear about Islam from the point of view of someone who is not trying to prove anything. The "just the facts" approach helps me much more than any other.

Sure this guy gives us facts about what the Quran says, but how do you know that is even correct?  

DJMidgetMan's mentally is like... "Well, I know that answer [insert mumbojumo here].. blah blah..... because the Quran says so!" IS that all you have to go by is the Quran? I find it very insulting for you to be preaching to me about "What God is" and trying to correct me and trying to say it like it is.  

I can logically see no practicality coming from the statement: God's Will controls us all."  I would love to argue with this to anyone who is up for it.  So are you telling me that God's Will is controlng all the chaos in the War and politics and stuff?  You must say that if you think a God controls you every action.  Why would this 'Allah' will two countries to fight with each other and slain one another?  The answer is simple.  We control our own fate, not some "predefined destiny."
you say:

quote:Once again, Self will comes from God. The wrongdoers will be punished for what they do. You are not separate from the will of God, because God wills you to have your 'self will' and God still has power over what you do. Wrongdoers will be punished if they abuse their 'self will'.

We obviously see different versions of GOD, but nevertheless still agree that there is only one GOD.  I see GOD as jsut as state of being. God is Order. God is Chaos. God is good and evil.  Got is both courteous and sinister, for (I believe) to see God as every thought, emotion, self, the seen and unseen all neatly packaged into a ONE.  I believe there is no right way to describe GOD for we look at it from so many different angles.  The Universe just IS.

I can't remember the specific prophet, but I remember reading a story of one of the prophets to Egypt.  "God" was supposedly speaking unto him saying to preach to the people of Egypt.  The prophet says, "Well what would I call you, what is your name?  This force says, "I have no name, I exist within and without you. I am you.  Therefor you may refer to me as "I Am."  (That just kind of goes to show anyone seeing God as I AM, would make a self affirmation of there Self.

I believe God is not a single thinking conciousness, but actually exists as all the awarenesses and consciousnesses in the entire universe.  

I refrain believing in any organized religion that teaches "This way, or the high way."  

You say Al Queda are all going to hell.  Well, I'm absolutely positive, all those suide bombers and pilots don't believe that.  They believe that they are doing good for they "God."  They kill other people .... THAT GOD HAS CREATED!!!  THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!

When a religion gets to the point of seeing their fellow "Freedom fighters" and military leaders as prophetic and messiahic (e.g. Sudam Hussein), that's when the minds of the innocent people have become manipulated.  

Hitler is a perfect example: Me manuplited the minds of the general people, believeing they are superior in race and laws.  They saw this as "Right." You and I would probably see this as evil, care to disagree?  Hitler would execute innocent people for theyre beliefs.  You know that sounds like Islam nawadays, especially with the Al Queda extremists, they all put their beliefs and standards above all others, believing they are "right."  

::Spits::

I seriously hate any organized religion.  You must learn, adapt, develop your own morals, and not rely on what a book says.  Almost religions support the Ten Commandments.  Because everyone agrees in the sayings, it seems universally ethical.  

ok ok im done...

[DjMidgetMan]

   

quote:DJMidgetMan's mentally is like... "Well, I know that answer [insert mumbojumo here].. blah blah..... because the Quran says so!" IS that all you have to go by is the Quran? I find it very insulting for you to be preaching to me about "What God is" and trying to correct me and trying to say it like it is.

I only used one quote from the Quran. I am just expressing my beliefs, which happen to be Islamic beliefs.

quote:We obviously see different versions of GOD, but nevertheless still agree that there is only one GOD. I see GOD as jsut as state of being. God is Order. God is Chaos. God is good and evil. Got is both courteous and sinister, for (I believe) to see God as every thought, emotion, self, the seen and unseen all neatly packaged into a ONE. I believe there is no right way to describe GOD for we look at it from so many different angles. The Universe just IS.

I have thought the same thing many times too. But the truth is, the universe is not divine. The universe is governed by laws that are NOT divine. These laws did not make them selves. The universe did not make itself. The universe is governed by specific laws, and is inperfect order . The moon revolves around the Earth, the earth revolves around the sun, and the sun revolves around the galaxy. Perfect Order . Also, the law of intertia: an object that is in motion, continues to be in motion unless something stops it.  An object that is not in motion stays motionless until something starts it. Once again the universe did not create itself, it did not plan itself out in such perfect precision, and it did not start its own movement. Its these things that lead me to believe that the universe came to be by intelligent design and that God is seperate from His creation.

quote:I believe God is not a single thinking conciousness, but actually exists as all the awarenesses and consciousnesses in the entire universe.

I understand your reasoning and have thought about that myself too.  It fits very well with your other concept, and I respect your opinion. We do have different opinions about the concept of God and they are both worth reflecting on.

quote:I refrain believing in any organized religion that teaches "This way, or the high way."

Most organized religions teach like that. Except for possibly Hinduism(I consider Buddhism as more of a philosophy than a religion.)

quote:Hitler is a perfect example: Me manuplited the minds of the general people, believeing they are superior in race and laws. They saw this as "Right." You and I would probably see this as evil, care to disagree? Hitler would execute innocent people for theyre beliefs. You know that sounds like Islam nawadays, especially with the Al Queda extremists, they all put their beliefs and standards above all others, believing they are "right."

That actually has nothing at all to do with the actions of Al-qaeda. Usamas intentions are purely political but uses a twisted interpretation(which is extremely out of context) of Islam to gather his followers. He does not kill people because of theyre religion. He kills people because the U.S. kills people(1.5 million due to sanctions) and is occupying the Middle East.  Usama is not near in equivalence with the ideas of Hitler. Read Usamas speeches, especially the one after the 9/11 attack and you will know what I mean.

quote:I seriously hate any organized religion. You must learn, adapt, develop your own morals, and not rely on what a book says. Almost religions support the Ten Commandments. Because everyone agrees in the sayings, it seems universally ethical.

Okay. I have read on almost all religions and i have found what i believe to be the truth. I can never dispute the Quran, after deep reflection of all the religions Ive studied, it makes the most sense to me.

[Gelfling]

Well with Sadam removed there won't be a need for sanction's now will there? Now do you really think without sanctions the people would have prospered? Do you? Do you think a man who put people through paper shredders, gassed children, mutilated bodies, and so much more would let his people prosper?

With wealth comes education and freedom. Don't fool yourself. Blame it on sanctions if you want but I think that is disregarding reality. Regardless the same people who cried about sanctions are crying about removing Sadam. There is NO way to remove the man without devasting his regime. Removing WoMD would not have helped his people. Freedom has never come without a price in the history of the world.  

All that aside this is the last place I would like to get into a political discussion. The bottom line is a radical movement of Islam has spread. It is devastating to women, brainwashing to children, and absolute brutal to all who disagree. It is a stone age mentality where man is supreme over women and tolerance is unacceptable.

I have never seen a religious text without flaws. Christians claim the bible is perfect. Muslims claim the quran is. Neither are and if people want to believe they are then hey, have at it. They both can be used to subject humanity into slavery and be used for sick actions. Both have aspects that reek of man made rules and human thinking not a God that loves his children.

When people stop trying to look outside for God and look inside the world will be a much better place.

[DjMidgetMan]

I knew I would get a backlash the moment i moved my lips about sanctions... lol

Im really not in the mood to write back to you Gelfling. I was just trying to make the point that no Muslim, righteous or not, forces Islam upon anyone. The Quran's command to keep from forcing Islam on people is to blunt and concrete for anyone to misinterpret.

Ill just comment on this:

quote:They both can be used to subject humanity into slavery and be used for sick actions. Both have aspects that reek of man made rules and human thinking not a God that loves his children.

I agree that both can be used to subject humanity to sick actions. But both do not reek of man made rules and human thinking. The only Islam that most everyone here probably knows is Al-Qaeda Islam, which is not Islam. It is barely Islam. The Islam that 99% of the Muslims of today practice is the Islam that ironically is unheard and seems to have no consideration from any non-Muslim.
I suggest that you goto a local Mosque to learn about Islam and have them answer any questions that you might have. []

[Gelfling]

About 3 year's ago I had a friend who was deep into studying Islam. I found the same human sounding "God" as in the bible for the most part.

I am sure you find it 100% perfect no different then anyone else who thinks they have "the truth"

Bottom line is the rabbit hole is VERY deep and neither Christianity or Islam come close to touching the surface. NDE cases and quantum physics are both kinda blowing apart the old time "religions"

[DjMidgetMan]

quote:About 3 year's ago I had a friend who was deep into studying Islam. I found the same human sounding "God" as in the bible for the most part.

Its very rare for a Muslim to convert to Christianity. The Bible in Arabic uses the word "Allah" for God also.

quote:Bottom line is the rabbit hole is VERY deep and neither Christianity or Islam come close to touching the surface. NDE cases and quantum physics are both kinda blowing apart the old time "religions"

What kind of beliefs are NDE cases leading to???

There are many scientific implications in the Quran that seem to good to be true. For example:

"Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?" [Al-Qur'aan 21:30]

This very much implies the big bang theory.

There are more but i dont feel like listing them. For example there are implications of the roundness of the Earth(which Muslim scientists had concluded to be true a millenium ago), and there are implications of the development of the baby inside a womb etc. etc. without any mistakes.

What does Quantum Physics disprove?

By the way, this is a very interesting article: http://islamicity.com/Science/quranandscience/relativity/GeneratedFiles/TheRelativityofTimeandtheRealityofFate.htm

[goingslow]

Quantum physics is in no way 'blowing apart' the old religions.  Its mostly about perception even in Q physics and it will give another perception or understanding but doesn't disprove anything.