Iraq War

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Most people in the world today have a need to personify a "deity" as the highest, most comprehensible "being" to them. For most people, that "being" is known as "God", Allah" "Jehova" etc., and other religions might have their "Brahma" and "Buddha" and so on. These deities fit in nicely with the religions which represent them, and their books of words for people to follow, and for most people serves as a reference point to find comfort by, as well as their own concepts of "heaven" and "hell". We all must always respect these religions and these deities as part of the path of every individual.

In reality of course, their really is only the "All", the Divine, the Akasha principle, Spirit, the Ether - the highest, and most incomprensible -  the true nature of which is only known to his/her self.

We do know that the "All" represents immutable, Universal laws, and by which absolutely everyone and everything in the Universe, in all spheres, plains, realms and dimensions are subject without exception. The "All" does not display petty human traits such as jealousy, greed, caprice, vengeance, desire to be worshipped, thanked, offered to etc,. but rather lives according to immutable Universal laws of cause and effect (The "Law"), effect always following cause in absolutely perfect sequence degree through all eternity. The most powerful driving force of the Law is perfect, unconditional Love.

In this context, these "my deity is better than your deity" and "my book is better than your book" discussions are completely moot.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[What Tha Phak]

Gelfing says:

quote:Well with Sadam removed there won't be a need for sanction's now will there? Now do you really think without sanctions the people would have prospered? Do you? Do you think a man who put people through paper shredders, gassed children, mutilated bodies, and so much more would let his people prosper?

With wealth comes education and freedom. Don't fool yourself. Blame it on sanctions if you want but I think that is disregarding reality. Regardless the same people who cried about sanctions are crying about removing Sadam. There is NO way to remove the man without devasting his regime. Removing WoMD would not have helped his people. Freedom has never come without a price in the history of the world.

All that aside this is the last place I would like to get into a political discussion. The bottom line is a radical movement of Islam has spread. It is devastating to women, brainwashing to children, and absolute brutal to all who disagree. It is a stone age mentality where man is supreme over women and tolerance is unacceptable.

I have never seen a religious text without flaws. Christians claim the bible is perfect. Muslims claim the quran is. Neither are and if people want to believe they are then hey, have at it. They both can be used to subject humanity into slavery and be used for sick actions. Both have aspects that reek of man made rules and human thinking not a God that loves his children.

When people stop trying to look outside for God and look inside the world will be a much better place.

Just wanted to say.. now THAT was a good post...

DJMidgetMan says:

quote:I have thought the same thing many times too. But the truth is, the universe is not divine. The universe is governed by laws that are NOT divine. These laws did not make them selves. The universe did not make itself. The universe is governed by specific laws, and is inperfect order . The moon revolves around the Earth, the earth revolves around the sun, and the sun revolves around the galaxy. Perfect Order . Also, the law of intertia: an object that is in motion, continues to be in motion unless something stops it. An object that is not in motion stays motionless until something starts it. Once again the universe did not create itself, it did not plan itself out in such perfect precision, and it did not start its own movement. Its these things that lead me to believe that the universe came to be by intelligent design and that God is seperate from His creation.

what what what?! What nonsense you speak! "The universe is not divine," you say?!  Who are you to say "the truth  blah blah about the universe is... Who are you to know or judge the UNIVERSE?!?
Here is the defination of Divine from www.webster.com:

1 a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love> b : being a deity <the divine Savior> c : directed to a deity <divine worship>
2 a : supremely good : SUPERB <the pie was divine> b : HEAVENLY, GODLIKE

You are so confusing and contradictory toward yourself...  If you are so firm with your beliefs, and you see God as flowing within and without us, and see God controling our own will, wouldn't it be safe to say that the universe is God, itself??  Now how dumb would it be to say the Universe is not divine.  That would be just like you saying God is not divine.

It is very hard to find and construct the points you try to make, as most of them are simply repeats of what you have heard and what you see to make the most sense.  You go around trying to correct people, but you have no grounds for your views..

You say the Universe is not perfect,  you say God is seperate from the universe, yet you fail to explain why.  Why would a supposed all being, not inhabit and consist of the ALL??  Do you catch my drift? SAying God is seperate from the universe is also just like saying you are seperate from the universe.

Tell me why the universe is not perfect.  It seems perfect to me, it is there, it exists, it simply IS.  The universe is a material and non-material existance/whole that lives from a natural course of action, we are dictated by a constant cause-and-affect stream of life. Everything has its reasons for happening. you say, "the moon revolves around the earth, earth revolves the sun, blah blah..." You simply point out the obvious, they happen for a REASON. Scientists could list a thousand other 'laws' or workings of our galaxy and solar system.  The universe is EXACTLY the way it is supposed to be, it is perfect.  Now if there was no such thing as positive and negative, if in did not have an out, if effects did not have their causes, ALL would have an arbitrary reality, it would be IMperfect.  That is not the case.

quote:I agree that both can be used to subject humanity to sick actions. But both do not reek of man made rules and human thinking. The only Islam that most everyone here probably knows is Al-Qaeda Islam, which is not Islam. It is barely Islam. The Islam that 99% of the Muslims of today practice is the Islam that ironically is unheard and seems to have no consideration from any non-Muslim.
I suggest that you goto a local Mosque to learn about Islam and have them answer any questions that you might have.

I'm sure if you were to ask Osama bin Laden himself, or any other Al-Queda member for that matter, they would call themselves 130% Muslim.  You see them as non-islamic because they kill and commit murder, they sabotage the freedom of innocence.  But they would probably see themselves as 'heroes,' getting rid of the 'infedels,' and wiping out more unbelievers.

Saddam Hussein has raped the minds of his people and destroyed the way of the Muslim for the most part.  I've noticed in translations of announcements, in Iraq, while we were bombing military targets, the Iraqi government was announcing to all:  We must protect our leader, We must help our president" over and over and over.  What kind of S]-[iT is that?! Shouldn't it be like: "Our leader will protect you, we will find peace, Hussein will let no harm come to your children."  Now that would probably be something you would hear here, in the States or something.

Islam is a large factor in all the chaos overwhelming humanity as a whole.  Religion, alltogethor, must be re-shaped into a more practical point of view.

[DjMidgetMan]

quote:In this context, these "my deity is better than your deity" and "my book is better than your book" discussions are completely moot.

Agreed.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by What Tha Phak

You say Al Queda are all going to hell.  Well, I'm absolutely positive, all those suide bombers and pilots don't believe that.  They believe that they are doing good for they "God."  They kill other people .... THAT GOD HAS CREATED!!!  THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!

There is unfortunately a big flaw in your argument. The sad fact is, your government armed the Al Queda movement (as you call them) to the teeth when it suited them a number of years ago.

quote:
When a religion gets to the point of seeing their fellow "Freedom fighters" and military leaders as prophetic and messiahic (e.g. Sudam Hussein), that's when the minds of the innocent people have become manipulated.

Likewise with Mr Hussein. 20 years or so ago, he was the golden-boy of the US who was installed as puppet-president and armed to the teeth with your tax-dollars to fight Iran.

Funny how things turn out.

Yours,
Frank

[BDHugh]

Hi Frank.

quote:Originally posted by Frank
Likewise with Mr Hussein. 20 years or so ago, he was the golden-boy of the US who was installed as puppet-president and armed to the teeth with your tax-dollars to fight Iran.

Saddam put himself into power. When we went to him, he was already a dictator. Do you know why we armed Saddam?

[DjMidgetMan]

quote:1 a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love> b : being a deity <the divine Savior> c : directed to a deity <divine worship>
2 a : supremely good : SUPERB <the pie was divine> b : HEAVENLY, GODLIKE

In my previous post, I was thinking more like the first definition of divine.

quote:You are so confusing and contradictory toward yourself... If you are so firm with your beliefs, and you see God as flowing within and without us, and see God controling our own will, wouldn't it be safe to say that the universe is God, itself?? Now how dumb would it be to say the Universe is not divine. That would be just like you saying God is not divine.

Well, the universe is governed by laws that are inchangable to us. The only possible answer to the universe's creation is to believe that there is a higher being that is above these laws. You have to understand that the universe is not a 'living being' itself, but mere matter. The laws of the universe are consistent and the universe does not have its own will to break these laws. It is governed by its own laws and the universe itself does not break its own laws. The only possible reasonable answer for matter to come from nothing is an intelligent being to create it. Excuse me if what i just wrote sounds like mumbling because im damn tired... [:O] Also, I have not insulted you once, why do you have to consistently procede to insult me?

quote:You say the Universe is not perfect, you say God is seperate from the universe, yet you fail to explain why. Why would a supposed all being, not inhabit and consist of the ALL?? Do you catch my drift? SAying God is seperate from the universe is also just like saying you are seperate from the universe.

Yea. (Please note that I am not trying to tell you how to think, I am just defeding my position): Our souls are seperate from the universe. We receive information from our senses which are interpreted by our souls, but our souls are literally just consciousnesses that are limited to the input they receive. When we feel a punch in the arm, for example, that is just our soul interpreting what is projected into it through the medium of the body/brain. I find it hard to believe that I came into existence and started experiencing the world, without some kind of higher being causing me to.
 God, in my opinion, is seperate from creation because he is the Creator of the creation. He is beyond the laws. I cant worship the universe and everything itself, although I can recognize that everything in the universe glorifies the greatness of the creator of the universe.

quote:Tell me why the universe is not perfect. It seems perfect to me, it is there, it exists, it simply IS. The universe is a material and non-material existance/whole that lives from a natural course of action, we are dictated by a constant cause-and-affect stream of life. Everything has its reasons for happening. you say, "the moon revolves around the earth, earth revolves the sun, blah blah..." You simply point out the obvious, they happen for a REASON. Scientists could list a thousand other 'laws' or workings of our galaxy and solar system. The universe is EXACTLY the way it is supposed to be, it is perfect. Now if there was no such thing as positive and negative, if in did not have an out, if effects did not have their causes, ALL would have an arbitrary reality, it would be IMperfect. That is not the case.

The above quote lists all the reasons for why I believe in a one unique God. If everything has a reason, there must be a separate will that is behind them. You also list the yin/yang theory which is completely true. That is another unchangeable law of the universe. The fact is: God is the cause, the universe is the effect. God is the planner. The universe is the plan in action. God appoints these reasons, and there must be a separate "thought" for anything to take place.  The universe itself can not be god because it DOES NOT will itself into existence. It is governed by laws that can not be attributed to God Almighty, because He is completely beyond our understanding. If the universe just 'is', then that would mean it and all its matter were always present, in one form or another, and that it was always in movement and creation which seems to hard for me to even comprehend... [xx(]

 

quote:I'm sure if you were to ask Osama bin Laden himself, or any other Al-Queda member for that matter, they would call themselves 130% Muslim. You see them as non-islamic because they kill and commit murder, they sabotage the freedom of innocence. But they would probably see themselves as 'heroes,' getting rid of the 'infedels,' and wiping out more unbelievers.

What does that have to do with anything??

quote:Saddam Hussein has raped the minds of his people and destroyed the way of the Muslim for the most part. I've noticed in translations of announcements, in Iraq, while we were bombing military targets, the Iraqi government was announcing to all: We must protect our leader, We must help our president" over and over and over. What kind of S]-[iT is that?! Shouldn't it be like: "Our leader will protect you, we will find peace, Hussein will let no harm come to your children." Now that would probably be something you would hear here, in the States or something.

Your point??

quote:Islam is a large factor in all the chaos overwhelming humanity as a whole. Religion, alltogethor, must be re-shaped into a more practical point of view.

It is not Islam that is at fault. It is not religion in itself that is at fault. It is the individuals who are at fault. If religion did not exist, the good-natured people would have no ability to grow on their good. If religion didnt exist, there would be no motivation for ANY GOOD PERSON AT ALL, to do ANYTHING about evil. There will always be evil and there will always be rebellious, prideful people who do not care about the feelings and well-being of others. These people are separate from religion. Whether religion existed or not, these people would have always existed. EVERY RELIGION HAS IT'S NUTCASES, BUT EVERY RELIGION HAS HELPED MORALIZE SOCIETY TREMENDOUSLY AND MAKE THE WORLD A MUCH BETTER PLACE WHICH SURPASSES ANY OF THE NUTCASES'S EVIL ACTIONS. If any one of the world's religions did not exist today, the world would be in a much worse shape.

Sorry to say, that this will probably be my last post on this topic, I cant spend any more time arguing over these things. I still have 4 more years of highschool to finish. []

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

quote:Originally posted by Frank

There is unfortunately a big flaw in your argument. The sad fact is, your government armed the Al Queda movement (as you call them) to the teeth when it suited them a number of years ago.

quote:

Likewise with Mr Hussein. 20 years or so ago, he was the golden-boy of the US who was installed as puppet-president and armed to the teeth with your tax-dollars to fight Iran.

quote:Funny how things turn out.

On the contrary, here we have to excellent examples of the laws of cause and effect in operation at close range in distance and time.

The cause was to spend huge amounts of public money to arm terrorists and the Iraqi leadership for, at the time entirely selfish puposes, and the effects are attrocities like 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq with tragic consequences for all of those involved and the world and humanity generally.

This is what happens when mindless governments interfere with the Universal scheme of things, instead of allowing the Law to determine the future, as for example in Russia, China and the ex-Eastern block countries.

Of course, Bush and the puppeteers that manage him would never, ever understand or even conceive of these things.

Sadly, the effects of these causes are far from over, and not until humanity generally attains a level where these truths and realities are understood, and everyone lives their lives in the Spirit in accordance with the Law, will the fabled "Heaven on Earth" be realised. This decade is critical to the future of mankind for millenia to come.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[What Tha Phak]

DjMidgetMan says in response to me:

quote:Well, the universe is governed by laws that are inchangable to us. The only possible answer to the universe's creation is to believe that there is a higher being that is above these laws. You have to understand that the universe is not a 'living being' itself, but mere matter. The laws of the universe are consistent and the universe does not have its own will to break these laws. It is governed by its own laws and the universe itself does not break its own laws. The only possible reasonable answer for matter to come from nothing is an intelligent being to create it. Excuse me if what i just wrote sounds like mumbling because im damn tired...  Also, I have not insulted you once, why do you have to consistently procede to insult me?

Of course the there are universal laws which all must consist by.  You are entirely correct when you say the universe does not have the Will to do whatever it wants and break these laws of physics.  But why does that have anything to do with God being seperate from the universe?  The universe is All.  Why would god be seperate from the All?  It does not make sense.  

Again, there is no proof that universe has a consciousness.  This does not proof its existance, it does not disproof its existance.  The only reason why you are thinking and aware, the only reason why you have a consciousness in the first place, is because of all the inner workings and components that make you, YOU, all the interneurons in you spinal cord, the dopamine which elevates or depresses your mood, all your brain cells which enable you to think.  This is a vehicle for you consciousness.  Obviously, through OBE, one can operate his awarenes external of its own body, self proving that there may be existance after death.

i got to go back to call, but will finish later

[Adrian]

Greetings What Tha Phak!

quote:Originally posted by What Tha Phak
But why does that have anything to do with God being seperate from the universe?  The universe is All.  Why would god be seperate from the All?  It does not make sense.

Yes, the Universe is indeed "The All". "The All" can also be thought of as "Spirit" which is everything that ever was, is now and ever will be. There is nothing separate from "The All" or outside of "The All". The entire Universe is "mental", and everything within the Universe in all spheres is held within the "mind" of "The All".

I believe this is where the confusion regarding deities arises. People see the Universe on the one hand, and believe it was created by, and ruled by a deity on the other hand. In reality, "The All" is the "Akasha principle", "Spirit" the "Ether" etc.. of which everything is a part without exception, separated only by vibration. Beyond the physical, we exist at the level of vibration that is equivalent to the vibration of our Astra-Mental (Soul) or Mental (Spirit) body - that is why everything seems just as solid, if not more solid in the higher/inner spheres, than here in the physical world. Everything in the physical world, including our physical bodies, vibrates at the same rate, and the same applies to the higher/inner spheres, but which are not restricted or subject to the grossness of three dimensional matter. Also, unlike here in the physical world, all beings vibrate and therefore exist at exactly the same vibrational rate in accordance with mant factors, and accordingly like always attracts like. That is why the Astral has its equivalent of "hells", belief system territories etc., because everyone withon those planes, realms, territories etc. are of "like mind" for better or for worse.

quote:
Again, there is no proof that universe has a consciousness.  This does not proof its existance, it does not disproof its existance.

The entire Universe is "mind" and therefore consciousness, but on a scale that is way beyond the comprehension of mortal minds.

quote:

The only reason why you are thinking and aware, the only reason why you have a consciousness in the first place, is because of all the inner workings and components that make you, YOU, all the interneurons in you spinal cord, the dopamine which elevates or depresses your mood, all your brain cells which enable you to think.  This is a vehicle for you consciousness.  Obviously, through OBE, one can operate his awarenes external of its own body, self proving that there may be existance after death.

This is not strictly true. Our "minds" and "consciousness" are not part of our temporal physical bodies. Our consciousness is our Spirit, and our memories of all lives for example are stored in the causal sphere of the Akasha. When we incarnate, the Astral matrix (sometimes known as the "silver cord") is formed, and which connects us to our physical bodies. The Astral matrix is in turn connected to the Mental matrix by the purple (lavender coloured) cord. When we receive thoughts, we do so first through the Mental matrix and then on in turn to the Astral matrix where we then receive the impression as if it arrived in our "brain". Sending thoughts take the opposite route from the Astral matrix to the Mental matrix and onto the causal sphere of the Akasha, although thoughts can be intercepted by almost any being in the higher/inner sphere, depending on vibrational level, nature and object of the thought. When people pass on of course, and are resident in the Astral, then thought processes involve the Mental matrix. All direct communication is mind to mind in symbolic language.

The point is - our physical brain is merely an elaborate transmitting and receiving station. The brain does not originate its own thoughts as such.  The brain is of course a highly complex organic intrument designed to enable us to control our physical organic body. You are correct therefore when you say that the brain is a "vehicle of consciousness".

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Adam]

Gee..it's been a while since I've posted to these forums. I've been reading them on and off for a while tho...mainly the Prophecies one.

Anyway - I've have got SOOOOO many things that I want to say about this, and not just the war either, the US government, the state of the world, the future...I've been on this *huge* information gathering drive for like the past 2 years - I've had an almost unquenchable desire to read up on things with a conspiritorial edge to them.

Now, I don't know how anyone else here sees the US gvt., but I've been filled with a burning desire, to know the *truth* about what is happening behind the scenes, because when I see Bush on TV or one of his "colleagues", I get the *distinct* feeling that I'm missing out on a biiiiig bit of the picture. That essentially, they are telling a very small, very *sterilised* version of the story.

[?]

I DONT TRUST POLITICIANS. Full stop. Next time one of them (good example is Bush) gives a press conference or speech, instead of listening to their actual words (you could even turn the volume down), listen to their ENERGY. What does their energy tell you? Do they speak from the heart, are they passionate, honest? Or is it ego-driven, hidden behind a wall of deception, that is well hidden - do they feign concern for the interests of the world, environment, peace, education....when really...they seem to be using it as a smoke-screen for hiding something? Not that you could tell, by listening to the words - REMEMBER - these are written by proffesionals.

So, I could see that, starting 2, 3 years back (I'm 20 atm). The sense that these guys had something to hide from me, from us, the public. So - I wanted to know - what exactly ARE these guys *hiding from us??* I wanted to KNOW. So, I started searching. Conspiracies were my main interest for a while, as well as the huge dominating force of companies and corporations hell bent on making profits and their connections and involvment with the US gvt., then channelings about the state of the world, then alien involvment and manipulation in/of our world, the supposed existence of deep underground bases that begun being constructed in the 50's by a group called MJ-12, the associations and deals made between 'Greys' (your typical alien) and the US gvt. in the 40's, the supposed existence of underground facilities-release-labratories jointly shared between these 'Greys' and elements of the US gvt.......I could go on and on and on...

Lemme stop here for a tic. It's kinda hard to keep my focus here, there is so much info stored away in this lil brain of mine it can be hard to pull out into a form that someone else can understand.

I've got somes sites I'll list at the end of this post, if you want to indulge in some further reading (highly suggested, as I'm very muddled-headed atm).
--
Anyway - as you can see so far, there seems to be a lot of focus on the US - why?. I've tried to answer this question, and quite frankly, I believe that the US is a very very important area of focus right now. Our future path is strongly determined by the path the people (or the gvt) chooses to take. It's a very powerful place, with shifts in conciousness there affecting the rest of the globe, more than almost anywhere else. It's almost like theres a spotlight shining down on the entire US, waiting, watching.

It's amazing really, when you consider that this country has risen out of the ground over just the last 200 years. It has sprung up as the dominant world superpower. It's been called the land of liberty, the land of free speech and endless possibilities. It's got the Constitution. The systems of Democracy and Capitalism have fused to form one of THE most successful countries in the world. But it seems that the corporations have taken over. Big Government is really just Big Business these days.  --Did you know that the US accounts for half of the WORLD'S total of military budget spending? That's right - More than North Korea, China, Russia, Israel, Iran...and of course, Iraq, put together.

The Cabinet positions seems to be held by people from military, defence, and corporate backgrounds only, these days. Go read up on the history of people like Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice...you'll find the same thread throughout - EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN A POSITION OF POWER HAS BEEN HEAVILY INVOLVED IN BIG BUSINESS. I bet you already knew willy Cheney was a former oil company CEO in the 90's right? That Condoleezza Rice had an oil takner named after her?
(I suggest the excellent book, "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.)

Hey people! WAKE UP! The US government has been taken over HOOK, LINE and SINKER, and no-one seems to care....or even notice! The people giving those speeches of stirring appeals to the heart of the nation, aren't really interested in the heart of the nation. Pah! They would SELL it if could make a profit.

Why do people working with defence contractors...in big corporations....sitting on the boards of the largest companies in the world...seem to rotate in and out of government positions?? Do you really think that the war in Iraq is about "Pre-emtive strikes"? About securing peace? Weapons of Mass Destruction? Regime change? Saddam?

I don't. I don't know if oil has anything to do with it - but hey! Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and it seems that the US will be the ones setting up this new democracy in Iraq, which means, they'll decide how the oil will be handled. Hmmm...
They have also offered lucrative contracts to companies willing to help in the restoration of Iraq after the war...including of course, it's oilfields!

Wow! These people, with huge corporate, defence and military backgrounds, have now, seen the light. It's time to bestow peace and prosperity on the world, starting with the Iraqi people. Well, we'll nab this guy, because he's OBVIOUSLY helping terrorists (even though they haven't proved any links between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime) and has mass caches of Weapons of Mass Destruction (even though the US simply hasn't brought out it's smoking gun - which they claimed they had, of course! they just um, didn't want to...well....next quesiton!).

Yet they are bosom buddies with the Saudis - who, just coincidentally have the largest oil reserves in the world. Oh, and um, they have PROVEN and CONSISTENT links with the Al-Qaeda terrorist network? That when traced, it seems that well, you know, umm...well, most of Al-Qaeda's funding came from the Saudi royal family? But hey! The Saudi's are our FRIENDS! They harbour AND fund terrorists but, I mean, hey, people make mistakes, and well, I'm sure they didn't really mean it.

Did you know that Saddam got the building blocks for his biological weapons programs in the 80's from - GUESS WHO? THE ONE AND ONLY, US GOVERNMENT! In fact one of the people that met Saddam in that time, was good ole' Donald "Rummy" Rumseld. The man with the illustrious defence background. Yep. That's right folks. Saddam would NOT have the capabilities for his Bio programs, if it wasn't for the kind folks in the US government. Of course, Rumsfeld seems to have forgotten this, when he was questioned by the senate recently. Doesn't recall any deals made. Or even that he met Saddam. No wait, he was on video meeting him, so he MUST'VE met him. But that's it, of course...

Bah.

Nothing there of course. I mean, these are all people who want the best for the world. They don't care too much for profits, as long as the people are happy. And peaceful! That's right.
-----
Well I must end this little tirade here. As you can all see I'm rather passionate and cynical about this. I'm actually pretty pleased with what I've written. I'm suprised, considering the deep haze of confusion I've been living with for a while. *phew* It feels good to get a little bit off my chest. but hey! I could go on.

If people could reply to this, with their thoughts, emotions, feelings, insights, disagreements, whateva! Go for it - I would LOVE to hear people's response to my thoughts (rather my giant truckload of them) on this issue (or issues ).

I'll wait and see the response actually, before I post anymore links for further reading.

So yeah, to recap, I would LOVE hear some replies. I'm sure this will stir up some (if not a lot of) people. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Adam

PS. The "rabbit hole" does indeed go much deeper than this. But I didn't want to let it all out at once...

[What Tha Phak]

Adrian-
Wow, I would try to continue with my earleir post, but I was just too awe-struken by your sense of wisdom and knowledge, I mean how exactly do you know all that stuff? What are inner-speheres? I don't recall any of those in Astral Dyanmics.  Can you regularly project?  Are you saying that all of our past lives are embedded within our silver cord?  Is one able to access memories from these past lives? If so, how?

Adam-
Hey, what a coinsidence, my name's Adam too.  Great post, I was neglegtant to read it due to its length, but am happy I did    Very interesting, you know I put a lot of time into reading and (trying to) piece everything (the TRUTH about the state of the world) together, myself.  I have heard and read of the exact same stuff that you mention, but probably am a lot less knowledgable of the conspirecies, for I have books on about it, but have not yet read any of them (still reading Body of Secrets by James Bamford, about the NSA).  I hear a lot about 'greys' and the reptilian aliens, and all the underground and, below the bottom sea level 'bases' or perhaps 'homes.' I have a book called Children of the Matrix byDAvid Icke which deals with governemt conspirecies, aliens, AIDS/HIV scam, Nazi, etc.  I have always wondered my self, what has happened to the Nazi, if they are stll in some sort of intact, powerful state?  Did Hitler have anything to do with aliens?  If the Nazi really did have UFO technology in World War II, why have we not seen it?  Did a higher ruling party take over and hide the truth about man's evolutionary outcome (if it has anything to do with aliens), is the US part of it?  Are other countries involved with extra-terrestrial life?

My biggest questions are-, Is it really getting close to 'armageddon,' or is mankind undergoing some sort of transformation, a new begining?  What is the truth between US and alien ties?  Is there really going to be a 'second coming?' Who/what will it be?  Will it be another messiah, what would he/she be considered?  What's this deal about there coming another Adam & Eve?  I heard Rael (you know, that alien preacher guy involved with clonaid) talking about it.  When will the 'Hall of Records' be unearthed from the chambers below the Sphinx?  Supposedly, the -=History of History=- is inscribed within the documents below the Sphnix.  It should contain historical records of ATLANTIS, Osiris, Aliens, anti-gravitation technology, daily cultural life of Atlantians, *roots of mankind*.  Rael says aliens came to earth like 25,000 years ago and cloned their genes into the most evolved primates, creating a whole new breed.  What is the US's role in a 'new world order?'

Man, it's hard to sleep at night when thinking about all this, it really is mind boggling.  You know, through AP I bet someone could learn a great deal about the truth behind the lies of our world.  Too bad I still can't []

Adam- can you willfuly project?


Sincerely, Adam   (heh)

[Adrian]

Greetings What Tha Phak!

quote:Originally posted by What Tha Phak

Adrian-
Wow, I would try to continue with my earleir post, but I was just too awe-struken by your sense of wisdom and knowledge, I mean how exactly do you know all that stuff? What are inner-speheres? I don't recall any of those in Astral Dyanmics.  Can you regularly project?  Are you saying that all of our past lives are embedded within our silver cord?  Is one able to access memories from these past lives? If so, how?

Thank you for your comments, but there really is only one truth, and it is available to absolutely everyone who sincerely seek it and for the right motives.

The "inner spheres" are sometimes known as the "higher spheres", i.e. the Astral and Mental "planes".  These planes, spheres or realms, are actually inwards by compared to the physical world, which is the outermost manifestation of the Universe as undifferentiated matter.

No, out past memories, indeed all of our memories are stored in our causal body - that is to say our Mental body that corresponds with the causal sphere of the Akasha.  When we access these, and indeed any of the Mental spheres from our physical body, we do so though the Astral matrix and then the Mental matrix. The "Akashic records" are sometimes conceptualised as a library, but this is purely symbolic.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[goingslow]

there is only one truth?  And you're one of the few who knows it?

Sorry but isnt that just a little bit arrogant?  Everyone thinks their truth is the only one truth.  

There may or may not be only one truth but I know I dont know the one truth.  Which is closer to the truth than a person is who believes there is only one truth and they're one of the few who know it.  (most wont get that but at least i do)

[goingslow]

whatthephak i sincerely hope you know everyone has theories based on their perceptions on things.  Some are more plausable than others and some may seem to make sense.. they might even have a lot of truth to it.  But you have to create your own based on the many beliefs out there.  Beware of a person who insists their truth is the only one.

Ill probably get a "warning" in a private message for this message too but honestly.  I dont think one person knows the truth and i question someone who states there is only one.

[Adrian]

Greetings goingslow,

quote:Originally posted by goingslow

there is only one truth?  And you're one of the few who knows it?

Sorry but isnt that just a little bit arrogant?  Everyone thinks their truth is the only one truth.  

There may or may not be only one truth but I know I dont know the one truth.  Which is closer to the truth than a person is who believes there is only one truth and they're one of the few who know it.  (most wont get that but at least i do)

There is indeed only one truth - the very same truth that has been closely guarded and conveyed thoughout the millenia - since the days of Ancient Egypt, and before that Atlantis, Mu etc.. This is not my truth, this is rather the truth as I understand it.

As for sounding arrogant, I cannot state anything less than what I consider to be the truth just to suit your own perception of people. As with everyone, you have two choices - accept it or disgard it in favour of whatever you consider the truth to be.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[goingslow]

I love when people say it isnt their truth but THE truth and they are one of the ones to know its THE truth.

Thats the very definition of your truth.  Its one of the mnay possiblities that you chose to believe as the truth.  Its the exact same thing the Christians or a Muslim believe.  The only difference is their truth, which is THE truth to them is different from Your truth which is THE truth to you.  Its still the same thing.. belief they have the one True belief while every other belief isnt the true one.

[Anonymous]

Often I find myself thinking something is the truth. Then a week later I might realize that it can't be the truth because of some flaw I see in it, so I go on to believe something else is the truth. Thus the long climb up the spiritual ladder continues, and I look down every once in a while to see how far I have come, but I can't tell. Maybe if my stupid eyelid stopped twitching I could get a better view. The intervals at which I change my opinion about the truth have decreased, which I think means I am getting closer. I don't think any one person has ever gotten or can get to the point where they KNOW the truth. I think we have to work together and figure it out as a people. (now this is a tricky problem with the leaders of the world today in charge). That's where I stand right now.

[goingslow]

Thats a very good way of putting it timeless.
I think the main difference is accepting there is one truth out vs. stating what that one truth is in detail such as.. there is one truth.  And here it is...

For me when i think of one big truth it sometimes reminds me of what RB described in Astral dynamics about certain colors that there are no way of explaining here in the physical.  To me thats mindblowing, to see a "color" in the astral that you couldnt explain because its beyond our understanding.  Or to think there are senses out there we are incapable of explaining not only because we dont have the words but because we have no experiences to base them or or they're beyond our perception.  

I have a test i gotta run to so this is rushed.  But to me a lot of these truths are so "physical" as in they relate to eveyrthing we know.  Every sense we have and they dont take into account there are things we might be incapable of knowing.

I think someone who has really seen the "truth" most likely would not be able to describe it in physical terms such as this level and that level etc.  

Anyway I agree with your response and i wasn't saying i thought there was definitely more than one truth.  I just dont think many have it and i dont think its accessable to everyone.  It might not be accessable to any of us.  In fact thats more likely.

[What Tha Phak]

I would consider Adrian a very wise person- if he/she (dont know) can astral project at will, try to picture all the learning and development that came from such higher sources.  We would all agree that there is only ONE Truth, as there is only one God.  Projectors have seen this light, this higher awareness, and know it objectively for what it is.  Though I hate to mention anything astral, let alone mental as objective--as it is not--it is the only way I could describe Truth, Oneness, as someone being able to experience it firsthand.

Sure Adrian claims to know Truth, for what God is and represents--having extended him/herself to close conscious levels-- but Adrian knows only what he/she has learned from perceptive experience, and a great deal of it may actually be the absolute Truth (bits and pieces of it anyway)...  But I really think the Truth is... that there is non that can comprehend the levels of God, on that same level, for it is unfathomably, mortally impossible.  We may be able to experience and learn, firsthand, from the Universe, other dimensions, maybe even heaven.. But being human has its limits.  We just have to go with the flow, learn, moralize, and adapt.

Truth simply IS. It is ALL.  And I know that to be true.  Therefor I know the Truth. [8]

[Anonymous]

I think the truth is accessible to everyone, but it is up to each person to stop being so materialistic, rid themselves of their ego, and open their minds. There is no way to lead someone to the truth, because we must all get there our own way, in our own order. One person may be able to figure out something faster than another, but the other person may have already figured out things the first person has not yet realized. It is my belief that God wants us to be able to figure out the truth only by ourselves with no help from anyone else- after all, IF this is a test, wouldn't that be cheating? And you know how some people are- they'd let others do the work for them. I believe this (life) is about our free will. It is the hub of the purpose. No matter what religion you believe in (applying only to religions that say we have free will or do NOT say that we don't) you are taught/given suggestions on what to do with your free will to make progress. It is what we do with it that will lead us to or away from the truth. We were given some guidelines and advice to follow by the religions of the world. The trick (or at least one of them) is finding the religion/set of guidelines that can help you the most.

[Adrian]

Greetings What Tha Phak!

First of all, to clear up your question - I am a he []

I would like to stress that I do not proclaim to know the truth in absolute terms, or to any significant degree, because only "God", Divine Providence knows the complete truth, and the closer a being is to "God", the "One" the "Source" of the truth, the more they will know of the complete truth. Humanity as a whole has a very long way to go on the path. Earth is way behind humans existing on many more advanced planets in the Universe, indeed, I have seen that there is currently only one planet inhabited by humans in the Universe that is actually less advanced on the path than Earth.

The truth as I understand it, is the truth as taught to humanity by the wisest and most advanced Masters ever to have walked the Earth. Of course, most of the truth is still highly esoteric, because it is beyond the grasp of most people on Earth at this time. As Jesus said - "do not cast your pearls before swine", which symbolically means, so not try to force Spiritual truths upon those who cannot possibly comprehend them, and will tread them into the mud. I have studied very many esoteric sources, and I believe that ultimately, most esoteric sources, and even most ancient religious sources e.g. the Essenes and those in the Orient, agree on the truth to the extent it is known to mankind, and in particular the nature of the Universe which is an  absolutely fundamental aspect of the truth.

There is indeed only one truth, but we may only know a part of it in this stage in our evolution, nevertheless, it is still the truth as relates to the whole, as opposed to the non-truths of creed and dogma.

Now regarding Astral projection and truths - the people in the Astral are generally no more capable of teaching truths and Spiritual matters than are some people in the physical world. There are exceptions of course such as the high level Astral temples, but the vast majority of projectors find themselves in the mid-Astral, or "focus 27" in Monroe terms, which is inhabited by people who are more or less the same as they were on Earth - that is why they are in focus 27. Those that were deeply religious on Earth would find themselves in a lower level fo the Astral, the "belief system territories" or even lower depending on how bad they were on Earth. This is one problem with mediums who channel spirits - despite the Spirit wanting to be helpful or important, they really have nothing more to teach than can be found in the physical world, because they live in a copy of the physical world. It is not until they rid themselves of their gross desires, which the Astral world exists to purge, that they can move on from the Astral to the higher Mental planes, and closer to the "source" of true knowledge. I should point out that many chanelled Spirits are from the lower Astral - the sort that like Ouija boards, and can do alot more harm than good!

The main value of Astral projection for most projectors is to confirm that their is no such thing as death, but rather only a transition from gross matter to a much finer medium of vibration where life continues, albeit faced with a mind world where the Universal laws of cause and effect are faced directly.  All truth is gained by study and initiation, and that is all part of the path.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[What Tha Phak]

Thank you timeless, but my friends don't always appreciate my sense of humour[B)].  Though I can always get everyone cracking up when there is gloom in our moods. []

Adrian,
R. Monroe's descriptions and articles on OBE seem very comprehendable and in depth.  I know he has books on the topic and Hemi-Sync CDs.  To your knowledge, does he have any audio guided hypnosis/OBE instructions on CD?  I'm dying to have my first successful OBE and can't stand the failures any longer (though I won't stop trying).  I hear these Hemi-Sync CDs are successful in boosting your chances of a first exit.  Any suggestions/comments?

[What Tha Phak]

Man, where's Adam...? I'm eager to hear his response.

[Adam]

Hey y'all

Glad you took the time to read my post What Tha Phak....no-one else seemed to notice it :/

It seems this topic has kinda gotten, well, off-topic. I think we need to refocus [}:)]

Well...to answer your question, no, I don't conciously AP. I got drawn to it heavily about 2 years ago (I guess thats when my spiritual awareness started expanding), but I never got anywhere with it. I get the strong feeling that thats not the right path for me. As much as I would like to be conciously exploring other realms of existence, I'm being 'held' in this realm. -- I think that this is basically because I've got a lot to do here, in the physical realm, especially with this coming of a New Age. I'm not totally sure what my purpose will be - all I know is that I've got an important part to play. I feel like that this is why I have come here. To assist and be a part of this transition.

I think that AP is probably a distraction for me at this time, because the realm that I need to focus on the most, is the one right here, in front of me. So it would probably serve to detract from my work here - because I know I am here on the Earth to do some serious work. I've felt for a while that I want to leave my mark on history, to acheive something big. lol  I try not to take it too seriously tho [!]

Well anyway, to the question at hand. Basically, I think dark forces are at work behind the U.S. government. It is no longer a democracy, after the election of Bush. Al Gore should have won - but the Supreme Court insisted Bush won.  I don't actually think that this war is about oil. I think it is about creating more fear in the world. Spreading the fear of terrorism, and war, because these forces control by fear.

I believe that the Iraq war will take a turn that no-one (at least, the mass concioussness) expects. I think the Middle East will explode in anger, and a great energy of destruction will move through our world. In fact, this energy of destruction has already begun it's work.

I think that is war is necessary. Not that I like it or it's consequences. But rather to begin the process of the destruction of the old world, so we can bring the new world into being, or birth if you like. Obviously there are some people who will not agree with me - I understand that. But this is what I believe. I think that it's something we need to get over and done with, the sooner the better.
There needs to be a great clearing out in this world. I think the grip on the mass concioussness that these dark forces have, need to be broken before it is too late. I think humanity needs to be plunged into darkness before it can come to the light. So, I'm sorta looking forward to the next 10 years...they're gonna be tough...but they'll be worth it.

On the other posts concerning Truth and all that. []
Everyone is an individual - every person has their own way of seeing things. I think that Truth is, well, brought to each person in a unique form. That the Truth comes in many shades of a vibrant colour.
I sometimes find it hard to express what I feel about this - but I feel just that basically everyone is equal, and that a person's viewpoint is just as equal as the next. It's up to each person to find out what resonates with them. And this is why I have searched and studied through these things, and the things I have taken are what have resonated inside me.

But anyway - lets try and stay on topic eh? []

Adam



PS. You don't need AP to find out the truth...(altho I'm sure it wouldn't hurt [])

PPS. David Icke is pretty good - he's got a website (www.davidicke.com) chock-a-block full of articles worth taking the time to read.

[Adam]

Oh BTW, I thought I might just attach some links to some reading material []. It took me a while to find these (probably more so that I wasn't ready to take it in).

These are a little bit old, but still very informative, imo.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/phil.htm

http://www.think-aboutit.com/dulce.htm

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/flying_saucers_from_andromeda/ucdulce.html

The think-about-it.com site is quite worth exploring. It's got many interesting articles.

I don't know if *any* of this is true...so make your own mind up I personally think that there is more truth here than meets the eye.

Adam