they dont have souls(warning disturbing)

[goingslow]

I forgot to focus on the fact they dont just kill them they actually do things like sew their mouth shut so they can handle them without them biting.  Its like a festival more than just an animal control thing.

I think you're right timeless about wanting to control the environment.  I remember seeing the stacks of wolves in pictures in yellowstone and other places.  Then they complain there are too many deer and they'er a menace so they start killing more of them.  People dont understand if you kill off natural predators you will have a lot more rats, deer etc.  Nature has a way of taking care of itself but for some reason humans love to play god sometimes.

I just dont get how people can watch things die and laugh and enjoy it.  I understand sometimes things are neccessary but killing shouldnt be fun.  

Even the celebration of death in this war disgusts me.  No matter how evil someone is I dont think people should get pleasure from knowing another is dead.  Maybe relief but not joy.  There's just something wrong with that.. but thats another story I guess.

[Anonymous]

Goingslow-

"They came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. They came for the Protestants and I did not speak out because I was not a Protestant. They came for the Catholics, and I did not speak out because I was not a catholic. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

Right now is a dangerous time for people like us. Protestors of any sort are on the government's blacklist. Maybe you don't protest and maybe you do. All I'm saying is, I don't think anyone should be afraid to speak their mind, regardless of whether the government labels it treason or not. This is exactly the kind of thing that sets me against the government. They allow it to happen. I am certain the FBI knows about this, and I can't believe there aren't nationwide laws that protect animals from things like this. I think there should be a lot of protests against these kinds of things. Peaceful ones, but ones that people WILL take action at if they are ignored. The peaceful sign-holders are not having any effect. I think it's time for people to take action. Fight back if necessary.

I am glad you spoke out against this. Can you send me the link to the article? I know of a good website that might be able to do something about this. They can take legal action against stuff like this. I most certainly believe animals have souls. In fact, I know they do. I don't need scientific equipment to prove that I know, because I have something far superior- My body and spirit. That is enough for me.

Anyway, it sickens me that people would be so ignorant as to do such things. But then again, we're the only species known for killing our own kind over things like money, drugs, even light insults. Our society is already like George Orwell's 1984. How long before children turn in their own parents, or vice versa?

[goingslow]

I completely agree Enderwiggen.  Let me see if the article is online somewhere. It actually might be.. if not i'll type it out here word for word.

Ill try to find it by tomorrow.

[panabelle]

This reminds me of Pigeon Day in the book Wringer by Jerry Spinelli. Maybe you could recommend the book to some of the people in charge of the event? I'm not sure that'll help, but the emotions of people like you who realize how wrong this senseless violence is are captured very well. You should read it, at the least. It's not a bad book.

[PeacefulWarrior]

i am LDS and therefore believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.  You many not agree, but I think you will like the fact that he did/said the following about killing snakes:

Killing snakes    
Zion's Camp 1834

Rattlesnakes

Joseph: "Men cease to destroy the animal race"   We crossed the Embarras river and encamped on a small branch of the same about one mile west. In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, "Let them alone—don't hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety."    

massasauga: a small spotted venomous N. American rattlesnake, Sistrurus cataneatus.  
Except "to preserve ourselves from hunger."   The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it [72] became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.    
Joseph shoots squirrel
[]

[goingslow]

I found an online version of the articlehttp://www.dailylobo.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=418927
It looks like the big event is tomorrow.  Perfect for Easter I guess.

Panabelle:  
I'll see if they have that book at the library.  Thanks for the recommendation.

Peaceful warrior:
I like the message in that passage.  BTW what is LDS?  Im not familiar with that.

[PeacefulWarrior]

LDS= Latter-Day Saint, ie. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Mormons or "LDS"

[dino333]

All this reminds me of the Simpson episode on whacking day. A little off topic but anyways...

[goingslow]

Thats a weird religion.. kind of like a cult in my opinion...but obviously I'm not a mormon.

[Jenadots]

Sadly, some people are so far removed from the life force that is within all living things, that they can justify their brutality and sense of power by saying they have no souls.  I do not know if reptiles have "souls", but they do have a life force, an aura, and something that gives them life.  

Some of these people may be taking their frustations with other people out on the animals or just expressing some unknown rage.  It is sick.  It certainly isn't a matter of survival or starvation for them to be brutal to animals.  

Does that mean I am a vegetarian?  No, I do eat animal flesh.  But I am always aware of the fact that a living thing died to feed me.  I respect it and hope that is its purpose.  

Some people may never see the life in other living things.  If they admitted they did, how could they live with their own brutality in these matters?  They couldn't.  They would have to change and change is something we humans struggle with, resist, and worry over even when we seek it.  

I would hope that the government puts a stop to such things as snake torturing, cock fights, and most of all, dog fights.  Even when shut down, some always seem to pop up somewhere else.  In Illinois, it seems to take a great deal of time to find these places and shut them down.  The fines are so little compared to the money these people make with these events that they just laugh, pay up, and start all over again someplace else.  

I do not understand those who actually go to watch or participate in these events.  Probably a good thing that most of us don't as it might mean we have a touch of that kind of insanity and warpedness within us.  

Just keep writing the people who make the laws to dramatically increase the fines when they catch someone to take the profit out of it.  It might help.

[goingslow]

I read an article today in my school paper which made me think of the thread someone put on consciousness in animals.

The state I am in has really backward animal rights laws.  The state im in still allows cock fighting.  

Anyway the article was concerning an event people have here annually which they call "rattlesnake round up" or something like that.  Anyway they go to an isolated part of the desert where there are a lot of rattlesnakes minding their own business.  They pour gasoline in the holes or stick spears in to get them out and they find interesting ways to kill them.

The article was very against this practice and they mentioned they kill them in sick ways.  They'll put them in a bag and have a contest who can stomp them to death the fastest or they'll chop of their heads.  BTW this is very inhumane and not the way they euthanize(sp?) reptiles in any respectable places.  Reptiles need so little oxygen that they can stay alive for 20 minutes or more with their head off before finally dying.  They will kill 1000 rattlesnakes that weekend.

The article sickened me.  It was pretty funny though when defending the event one person said "god doesn't care if we kill rattlesnakes because they dont have souls."  I thought this was amazing.  

I guess my reason for putting this up is because I cant believe things like this are condoned.  I guess in a way i know why people think its okay. Because they think rattlesnakes are nothing but dangerous and have no purpose.  WEll they kill rats and other rodents and this state has had many cases of the hanta virus caused by rats and mice.  But rattlesnake bites resulting in human death is very rare and its usually when the person is out messing around and doesn't take precautions.

Parents bring their kids to these events and they act like its all fun and games.  Im just amazed how some people have absolutely no respect for life.  

Does this anger other people here or do you think its okay because perhaps reptiles dont have consciousness?  I wonder if there are laws of karma on this thing.  

How can people just kill something and not even worry about "what if it does have consciousness".  Course a lot of these people at these events are barely conscious themselves.  I wish i was joking when i said.  How can this be so accepted and so many people see nothing wrong with it?