quote:
Originally posted by xgoz
Do you think that John Edward is a fraud or not. Easy yes/no or give an explanation too. Thanks, xgoz.
My opinion? Yes
And that Sylvia Browne makes me want to vomit pea soup ala Regan in The Exorcist.
Lasher
I dont think he's a fraud at all. I really think he's the real deal. If you really watch his show and the specific stuff he comes up with along with his down to earth style. Well its that along with just my gut feeling that he's sincere and real.
When you're that high profile though you'll have tons of people who try to debunk you. Plus in my opinion james van pragh makes the whole thing look bad which sometimes taints him.
I think hes real though. And im pretty skeptical about stuff.
btw I really hate sylvia browne too.. she and van praugh (sp?) in my opinion are really obvious frauds. I hate her on that montel show too.. "oh you're gonna marry someone but not the guy you're with.. dump him". thats such crap and abusing what mediumship is supposed to be about.
quote:
Originally posted by pmlonline
Yes, I believe John Edwards is for real. His history with so many people and tests runs so deep that IMHO anyone who studies his past would be foolish to think otherwise.
Well, I cannot say that I've studied his past. But I have watched him on numerous occasions and he and Sylvia Browne seem to be cut from the same cloth. Maybe they do have "abilities". But both of them seem to play manipulative games with people to make the audience perceive far more accuracy than is really occurring.
Edwards throws a ton of stuff against the wall and then hammers on the stuff that sticks while the vast majority of the stuff falls off.
And I think Browne sometimes actually bullies people into agreeing with what she's saying. You can see it on their faces. She acts like it is
their fault when
she makes a mistake.
I think they are both carney-types preying on suckers.
It's too bad because folks who encounter this kind of stuff may end up thinking it's
all bunk.
Lasher
Hes nothing like sylvia browne.
Face it if Robert Bruce was in a room saying the exact same things as JOhn edwards many here would say its indesputable he's a real medium. But since JE is so high profile then suddenly its just luck. Its too be expected. This type of "everyone who is well known must be a fraud" but it isnt always true.
these high standards of being exactly right.. which mediums are we comparing them to?
Who are they giving a bad name? come on mediums you think are real are most likely very inaccurate. They're just not famous.
I think hes a fake, first off, by the structure of how it works. He has a room full of people, and obviosly somthing obscure with jump out to *someone*. For example, he will aparently get some sort of "message" from the otherside, like claim he is seeing some small black dog(or any othe obscure thing like that). Then he confusingly looks around trying to pin it to someone, and then goes on to make even more vauge claims, and builds it up, and oftin works up from there. He will make a VAUGE claim, then bend it, kinda change it to fit.
anyone know what I mean? on the other hand he does do private interviews, and how exactly that works I dont know, but the group thing seems really questionable to me...
Also at times, it seems really beliveable and it just makes me wonder how the hell hes doing it, my pairinoid ideas are that he has a earpiece, and a staff that does stuff, hehehe [:P] there have been many scandles like this in the past, and also there have been much much more technology advances such as instant background checks on people, death certificates and such, and a micro ear peice, lol, now im ashamed of this last paragrah, just an idea [:P]
John Edwards isn't faking it. If it was just a matter of luck, or talking about random things and getting hits, there would be tons of John Edwards's. If you watch the show, some of the things he brings up while trying to find a particular person are completely ridiculous, and yet he always finds his person, every single time. Even when they're too shy to raise their hand, he's directed to the general area by the person he's channeling and starts picking people in a certain location and asking them if what he's asking rings a bell. And I'm not talking about the isntances that are like "Have you had washer trouble recently?", etc. There are questions like that that he asks, but even when people reply that they've had washer trouble or whatever recently, he still sometimes turns down that person, feeling that they aren't the one he's looking for. The odds of him hunting and pecking the people so particularly and still giving accurate readings every single time would be hard to duplicate by guessing, etc.... And the show isn't rigged so that he finds out info before the show, so how else would you explain it? I think the show pretty clearly explains itself when it comes on.. John channels the info. I've seen episodes where he going into detail on how he channels, and it coincided a lot with what I've read from Robert Bruce and elsewhere.
quote:
I dont think he's a fraud at all. I really think he's the real deal. If you really watch his show and the specific stuff he comes up with along with his down to earth style. Well its that along with just my gut feeling that he's sincere and real.
When you're that high profile though you'll have tons of people who try to debunk you. Plus in my opinion james van pragh makes the whole thing look bad which sometimes taints him.
I think hes real though. And im pretty skeptical about stuff.
I agree with Goingslow.
hey people, maybe this book would help:
The Afterlife Experiments : Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death by Gary E. R. Schwartz.
in this book, a scientist actually gathers up a bunch of mediums, INCLUDING JOHN EDWARD, and sticks them in various situations, making sure they don't have access to outside information. some of the situations they don't even allow the person being read to respond to what's being said by the mediums, or only give yes or no answers. the medium would be unable to see the person's face (most of the time they had no idea who they were giving a reading to) and would just have to keep throwing information out, without any hints from the person about if they're on the right track or not. they kept data on the hits and misses of all these mediums, and most of the mediums still had amazingly accurate readings, despite not having anything to go on. the results pretty much pointed to these people being the real deal, including john edward. so, try checking the book out from the library sometime, or buy it, and see what you think! it's pretty interesting... unless the scientist is lying through his teeth, too.
I have seen John Edward in a seminar and I will be the first to say I believe in him totally!! He definitely has a gift. We were there for hours before it started...and no one was walking around the crowd digging for info..
All I know is, he said stuff that would be totally impossible for him to know, unless he was hearing it from "the other side"
Sylvia Brown....well, she is very sure of herself..lol. I have one of her books and she has predictions in it. She failed on alot... but that is not to say she doesn't have a gift also..IMO it just has gone to her head..simple as that..and once you take a gift like that and abuse it, well..gonna come up short.
Van Praugh...he does more of the throwing of stuff against a wall as Lasher put it, than Edward does..by far! Out of the three, he is the one I don't believe the most.
Nay. [;)]
(http://www.johnedward.net/Capture_00177.jpg)
Urk![xx(]
Hehehehe...
I think that is great picture! Thanks for posting it.[:D]
Nay. [;)]
Here is a site that I think all of you might be interested in reading through. There is a section devoted to John Edwards' show and James Von Praagh's show. It explains how the stuff could be faked. The site is run by a man who likes to be called Banachek, he was a member of Project Alpha, a series of tests by MIT researchers to see if Banachek and several other people who claimed to be telekinetic were in fact capable of doing what they claimed. The men being tested were nothing more than stage magicians and they fooled MIT researchers into believing that telekinesis was in fact possible. The site is an interesting read, and fits well into this topic.
Respectfully,
Link's Shadow
i hate john edward, i feel he is an emberassment to all psychics, in my oppinion, i feel that i have to know why any dead person would want to contact john edward? i sure wouldnt! this guy uses cold reading iv heard its a way of faking the channeling and contact, all they have to do is say a letter or a name and wait for someone to say somethin, than he says the dead person wants to say something about the money which is always brought up after a death accurs and also he says any topics that can be said from the audience, its really smart but its cheating so hes a fake in my oppinion! FRAUD! hes lying to the audience! hes a descrase![}:)]
you can acuse any medium of "cold reading". Yes the "amazing Randy" also does that.. Its so comical to see the readings people do when trying to prove mediums are fake. they're more like vaugn pragh..
I think you should calm down a little.. no reason to hate someone just cus they're high profile. I think a lot of this has to do with the belief if a person is real they wouldnt profit. I think that is a lot of crap personally. But thats another debate.
Its funny because they'll pick at things that could possibly be a cold reading and say see. But the many where there are no techniques at all where he could have possibly come up with the stuff they dismiss it.
But he makes money and is high profile. He must be bad. Please look at debunking sites and think for yourself. Think there aren't sites that debunk anything paranormal with their little arguments about what's really happening?
Mediumship by its very nature can be argued its all cold reading. I get sick of phrases too that are overused and people really dont know what they mean.
Yeah yeah yeah, cold reading, faking, microphones, whatever.
If any of those pseudo-skeptics out there can do a cold reading ON THE AIR as successfully as John Edward, then I'll believe that what Edward does is fake. Just because some guy with a website suggests possible ways that it COULD be fake, doesn't mean that it IS fake. What BS.
Some people just have problems accepting reality and they aren't the ones watching Edward's show.
What John Edward does is legit, but its not the be-all end-all of ADC and the show likely edits it to make him appear more accurate than he really is. What Sylvia Browne does may or may not be legit, but I don't think her "guide" is all that advanced even if it is.
I agree with Goingslow... Why such so much hostility? You seem almost jealous..
I believe there are alot of so called mediums running loose in the world, taking well earned money from ppl. But John Edward is not one of them. The tickets that I purchased for his seminar were only $45.00..I was surprised they were so low. Sylvia Brown is coming to my city this month and her tickets go for $145.00..I would NOT pay that much...lol.
I am actually quite surprised that more ppl do not believe that JE can speak to the dead...isn't that what Robert Bruce, Robert Monroe and even our beloved Ginny, do? It is just in another form is all.
I guess the fact that I grew up in a family with a father whom is a medium and myself have grown use to seeing the odd figure from time to time, and have been pushed, my hair stroked, my back rubbed..well, helps me understand JE and how it cannot be "cold reads"...
ahhhh..as I was typing this I see MJ-12 has said another thing I agree with..lol..thanks MJ-12!...
Nay. [;)]
Indeed, John's motives dont seem to be money, if you recently seen him on the jimmy kimmel show, he spoke of sticking to his fixed ammount for private interviews, which was somthing like a hundred bucks, or a couple hundred or somthing. Also there is a waiting list, and aparently NO ammount of money can get you a differnt spot on the waiting list.
As for the people that claim its the truth, period. probly need a litle bit more skepticism [:P]
I will admit that there are ALOT of geniunly belivable moments, but how long are these shows? As anyone would know most all television shows are edited, thats another aspect of it...
I wonder if there are long moments where hes just shooting in the dark for a looong time?
I vote phony. Watched a few times, then stopped.
In a room full of people, all of whom you know have a dead loved one they would like to hear from, with a gift of BS, it would be easy to find someone who fits the I am getting...fill in the blank.
But - he is the smartest man in the world as he show has made a few million. Obviously smarter than me.
At least Browne helps find lost people once in a while and does more than answer boyfriend questions or deceased persons questions.
I think what I find most amusing about all these shows, is how happy everyone always is in the afterlife. I always wonder why they never say they are suffering terribly for what they did.
So what do you think happens to the real SOBs and SOB-ettes after they die?[;)]
I'd like to see some raw footage of his show. No editing or maybe go to his show myself to make up my mind. He's pretty good, but so is David Blane and he is an illusionist. But I'd give John the benefit of the doubt and say he is for real.
Greetings,
I don't know about John Edward, (haven't heard of him before or Sylvia Browne), but I suspect they are the same as the average "TV psychic".
I saw an interesting documentary on British TV about psychics. I would not presume to say whether they are genuine or not because I simply do not know, but their entire "performance" was highly suspicious to say the least.
Most of them would only perform before a large audience after being "made up" to look the part. They all seemed much more like entertainers than psychics, more interested in money and audience applause.
By far the most suspicious thing was almost all of them refused to do a one on one reading - they would only perform before an audience where they could play the laws of average. They seemed to seize upon any member of the audience who could verify what he claimed to be receiving. For example "I am getting someone who knows someone here called Dave". Of course when Dave indicates his presence, the psychic asks Dave questions and responds accordingly.
One TV psychic did agree to a one on one reading and got almost everything wrong, no better or perhaps even worse than the laws of average.
As I said, I really could not say whether these people are genuine or not never having met them. However, the sad thing is that it is very often recently bereaved people who seek and pay for the services of a psychic, and it is these people who are the most vulnerable. I really do hope that these psychics are genuine and not merely taking advantage of vulnerable people, otherwise there will be a karmic price to pay.
With best regards,
Adrian.
quote:
In a room full of people, all of whom you know have a dead loved one they would like to hear from, with a gift of BS, it would be easy to find someone who fits the I am getting...fill in the blank.
Well, if you have watched the show then you would see that he just doesn't stand there and say.."ummm, yes..I feel a mother figure coming thru".. He always says I am right here..in this row, he is very specific! I watched one day where he kept saying that he was in the back row..but nothing was making any sense to those ppl. Then one of the, I think camera men said that there was a parking deck on the other side of that wall. Well, someone went over there and found a parking attendent...and EVERYTHING JE had said was right on the money!.. hehhehe ohhhhh, the look on that man's face was priceless! NO WAY, that was not set up.
quote:
At least Browne helps find lost people once in a while and does more than answer boyfriend questions or deceased persons questions.
JE has also worked with the police on several occasions and has helped in finding bodies and what not.
quote:
I think what I find most amusing about all these shows, is how happy everyone always is in the afterlife. I always wonder why they never say they are suffering terribly for what they did.
Once again, if you would have watched the show more than once, you would have heard PLENTY..! Lots of them are working thru what they have made for themselves.
Nay. [;)]
Greetings Nay,
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
I am actually quite surprised that more ppl do not believe that JE can speak to the dead...isn't that what Robert Bruce, Robert Monroe and even our beloved Ginny, do? It is just in another form is all.
Yes, there are many genuine psychics about who can communicate with people in the Astral. The main difference is that most of those I know would never, ever perform before an audience for money, and in fact most of them do not even charge any money - they do it as a service to humanity just as healers and others do.
People with genuine psychic abilities should also be Spiritually aware; almost by definition. Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. They are rather usually very humble people who selflessly offer the benefit of their abilities to people in need without charge.
With best regards,
Adrian.
like i said, perhaps if you really want another point of view on the whole thing besides the skeptics, you should read:
The Afterlife Experiments : Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death by Gary E. R. Schwartz.
an actual scientist applied scientific methods to study these various mediums, one of them being john edward, and they were actually put in situations where they were unable to give "cold readings". they were not told who they were giving a reading to, unable to see the person's face, and in one experiment, were only given Yes or No answers by the person being read, and in another experiment, the mediums were given no responses by the person being read... just plain silence. they were still amazingly accurate in their readings, even john edward.
"The main difference is that most of those I know would never, ever perform before an audience for money, and in fact most of them do not even charge any money - they do it as a service to humanity just as healers and others do. People with genuine psychic abilities should also be Spiritually aware; almost by definition. Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. They are rather usually very humble people who selflessly offer the benefit of their abilities to people in need without charge."
i don't know much about these abilities, but perhaps just because someone is more sensitive than the rest of us, or has more developed abilities than the rest of us, doesn't make them more spiritually advanced or anything. i mean, just because someone is born with better drawing skills than the rest of us doesn't mean they are going to be better artists. human beings are human beings, and can make mistakes no matter how spiritually advanced they are. and there might always be an abuse of powers. besides, perhaps these people deserve some sort of compensation for the amount of time they give out of their own lives to help us with ours. i mean, mediums have their own lives to live, and i'm sure that sometimes they get tired of helping everyone (especially when they have hundreds, thousands of people clamoring for their services), when they may have problems of their own, or want to just simply have time to enjoy life. if we don't want to have to give them something in return for their help, then well, i guess we have to work on developing our own skills, since these are abilities that are inherent in all human beings.
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian
Greetings Nay,
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
I am actually quite surprised that more ppl do not believe that JE can speak to the dead...isn't that what Robert Bruce, Robert Monroe and even our beloved Ginny, do? It is just in another form is all.
with people in the Astral. The main difference is that most of those I know would never, ever perform before an audience for money, and in fact most of them do not even charge any money - they do it as a service to humanity just as healers and others do.
People with genuine psychic abilities should also be Spiritually aware; almost by definition. Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. They are rather usually very humble people who selflessly offer the benefit of their abilities to people in need without charge.
With best regards,
Adrian.
One thing I find fascinating about you adrian is your ability to tell everyone who is and who isn't spiritually aware. what exactly are the prerequisites not for being spiritually aware yourself but to judge exactly how advanced another person is.
They must do a different job as their main one and use their psychic abilities to help and make no money. I paid a good amount for Astral Dynamics. But of course I dont judge by those standards.
Your posts are filled with judgements on other people's spirituality. Ever notice that?
BTW on his television show he doesn't charge money so he isn't doing it in front of a group for money.
He does do seminars which cost money. I forgot.. the seminar RB is doing.. free?
Its so easy to point the finger at other people and their lack of spirituality. I thought these talents were natural. What Im a little cautious of is people who always equate these supposedly natural talents with being a divine person. Flawless and spiritual. where's the practice in all this?
Dear goingslow,
In reference to your comments to Adrian. In our quest to attain enlightenment, it is almost irresistable to try to see trends, make assumptions, make judgements. These are then used to create guidelines and rules (known as spiritual materialism). Unfortunately rules and guidelines do not get us where we need to go. If this were true then religion (the ten commandments etc.), new age rules would have enlightened most of us by now.
So the question becomes what does help us acheive enlightenment? My guess is conquering ego, shadow, and attaining full understanding of self. Using judgement on self. The mess most of us never want to dive into and fix. BUT my guess is as good as yours...right?[;)]
You do make a person think. Maybe I will ask you to be my guide in the next lifetime. You will not allow me to get away with anything.[;)] If I do listen to you I might reach escape velocity. You know how much I respect and like you. So, I hope you know that while I am half joking...I am half not joking. You would make a good guide. Spiritual materialism is a big trap that is hard to avoid. A good guide constantly jabs us when we step too close to the covered pit.
Much Love,
timeless[:)]
I have to agree with Goingslow on this one.. I believe JE is helping thousands of ppl.. and geez you have to make a living doing something..why not doing what you enjoy and are good at? I go to another forum that is full of ppl that have had readings by JE and it has helped them in many, many ways. Alot of the ppl that have been featured on the show are on the forums as well. And they swear there are things that he could have not known...And if they can live another day without the pain of the loss of a loved one..well, that is all that matters..
I personally did not get read at the seminar but found the experience quite enjoyable! I hope to go to another and another and another..now if I could just somehow get him to come to Ga again..lol
Nay. [;)]
Forgot to say..Thank-you curiousgirl for your input.!
And Timeless, you know I like you too..but sometimes you say alot and nothing at the same time..lol.. I just couldn't crasp it..perhaps it is my low attainment of enlightenment...[:(]
I feel like the student of a "master" whom was just given a riddle to figure out..
Nay. [;)]
Dear Nay,
I was referring to Goingslow's comments to Adrian. I will go back and clarify. My writing skills need work. Who says I'm enlightened? I've had some experiences that SEEM to indicate some degree of what some people call enlightenment but frankly that doesn't mean much...not really.
Best Regards,
timeless
Greetings Goingslow,
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
One thing I find fascinating about you adrian is your ability to tell everyone who is and who isn't spiritually aware. what exactly are the prerequisites not for being spiritually aware yourself but to judge exactly how advanced another person is.
Your posts are filled with judgements on other people's spirituality. Ever notice that?
I would never make judgements specifically on who is and who isn't Spiritually aware, and if you can produce the links to posts where you think I have done this I would like to see them. It most certainly is not my intention I assure you.
To correct your observation on the context of this post, I was not judging whether John Edward or anyone else is Spiritually aware or not - of course I do not know - I was rather saying, if you read my post again, that genuine psychics who are in contact with people and other beings in the Astral
should be spiritually aware almost by definition.
I also said that I do not know whether John Edward is genuine or not, but I am sure that many so called psychics who perform before audiences for money, preying on bereaved people are not genuine.
And of course John Edward is being paid! How much do you think the TV company is paying him?
With best regards,
Adrian.
Wow, thanks for all the replies. I did the best I could to count up the votes and it looks like its 5 to 7 in favor of NOT A FRAUD. But if anyone else would like to voice their opinion It could certainly turn to FRAUD. Thanks
xgoz
You know, whether or not we believe he's a fraud or a real psychic doesn't really determine whether or not he actually is..
perhaps the point of the show is not to prey on the bereaved, but to comfort them (and the rest of us) and to show us that the afterlife does exist, and that our loved ones haven't just disappeared into nothingness.
and i think he does do private readings, not just ones on tv in front of a full audience (not to mention he did a bunch of private readings for anonymous people in that one book i mentioned). and some of the information john edward tells the people on the show is so specific, and so amazing because he comes up with stuff that no one in the family even knew about, until after the show and they did some research. i mean, in some of these situations, john edward or the tv station would have to be paying all these people to lie and go along with whatever john edward says, and they'd have to keep finding people who were good enough actors to pretend they are grieving and amazed and all that.
so, while i think there is something kinda peculiar about john edward, things seem to point toward his authenticity, unless there's a huge thing going on where all these people are being paid off to lie, even the scientific researcher who wrote that book. and if it turns out to be all a big "jerry springer" lie, eventually one of those people will decide that it will bring them more money and publicity to uncover his falsehood than it does to lie for him (i mean, if they're willing to lie to the public for money, i doubt they'll have much qualms about backstabbing john edward). i guess all we can do is wait and find out if there will be even more proof for or against him.
Hi All.
John Edwards does have a gift. Many thousands of other people also have the same gift. John has turned it into a hugely profitable deal, most others have kept it low key.
Personally, I do not understand why he charges so much for a reading and I wonderif he uses any of his massive income to do good works in the world. While in Australia he was charging $85 to sit in the audience and $9,500 for a one on one reading !!!! To me that is way too excessive.
I see no reason why people cannot use their gifts to make a living for themselves if they charge reasonable prices that allow all socio-economic groups to access their abilities. Unfortunately, John chooses to price at the top end of the market, as so many new age psychics and mediums are doing.
We have to ask also, does the population NEED to have messages passed on to them from the other side ? Many people have said he provides 'closure'. But, in the world we live in, Death is closure, and the living must continue on even if they do not understand the circumstances of a loved ones death. That is the way it has always been. And that is my fifty cents worth.[:P]
Love always.[:)]
Sorry to hear that Tayesin! My tickets were only $45.00..[B)]
Nay. [;)]
You would have to be crazy to spend $9,500!
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin
Hi All.
.
Personally, I do not understand why he charges so much for a reading and I wonderif he uses any of his massive income to do good works in the world. While in Australia he was charging $85 to sit in the audience and $9,500 for a one on one reading !!!! To me that is way too excessive.
Love always.[:)]
either you're lying or misinformed. His philosophy is he wouldnt charge more than he'd pay for a private reading. In america he charges about 200 bucks. I seriously doubt suddenly in australia its about ten grand.
ahh actually I edited this because I know what you're talking about. If you go to certain sites (his site to be exact warns : DONT BUY TICKETS OFF OF EBAY). they will warn you about people who SCALP tickets to his show. On ebay tickets have gone for 10 grand profiting off people who are desperate to hear from loved ones. He doesn't make money off this. Im not sure you know how this works but a person buys tickets to the show. Its sold out.. they go on ebay or somewhere else selling his tickets for an outrageous amount.
I think you should be careful before you say he's selling it at that amount when it really isnt true. You cant be that gullible. There is a big difference.
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian
Greetings Goingslow,
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
One thing I find fascinating about you adrian is your ability to tell everyone who is and who isn't spiritually aware. what exactly are the prerequisites not for being spiritually aware yourself but to judge exactly how advanced another person is.
Your posts are filled with judgements on other people's spirituality. Ever notice that?
I would never make judgements specifically on who is and who isn't Spiritually aware, and if you can produce the links to posts where you think I have done this I would like to see them. It most certainly is not my intention I assure you.
To correct your observation on the context of this post, I was not judging whether John Edward or anyone else is Spiritually aware or not - of course I do not know - I was rather saying, if you read my post again, that genuine psychics who are in contact with people and other beings in the Astral should be spiritually aware almost by definition.
I also said that I do not know whether John Edward is genuine or not, but I am sure that many so called psychics who perform before audiences for money, preying on bereaved people are not genuine.
And of course John Edward is being paid! How much do you think the TV company is paying him?
With best regards,
Adrian.
You may not say much directly but you hint and say a lot by beating around the bush. I might take you up on the links thing if im bored but a few things come to mind. You cant eat meat to spiritually advance, Crowley wasn't a spiritually advanced man.. I mean look at him. But I prob wont take the time out to link to these things. If you dont think its something you do then its not a problem right?
Anyway this time your comment was "Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. "
How did I misinterpret this? You said spiritually aware people dont become paid stage performers. ..tv audiences etc. He does this..therefore he must not be spiritually aware? I must have read too much into it.
you said he charges the audience. Do you know how television shows work? Do you know they make money off the commercials if your show is popular? big money? Sooo a spiritually advanced person would say "please no I cant accept. CBS or NBC you keep my share. Give me a break.
Im not sure if a lot of this is rooted in jealousy or what but what gives someone the right to say because a person does well in this world they must be a fraud. What makes psychic gifts so much "higher" than an athletic gift. If someone was given the gift of mathematical genius no one judges them for making money. Musical gifts?
Its equating something we dont understand with something divine and judging people for doing well in this world.
I really think unless people here are as gifted.. with the chance to make money doing something than our everyday jobs which Im sure we all love and chose to do. Then we decline the money because it just isnt spiritual we have no room to talk.
If Robert Bruce suddenly had 3 million fans and made a million bucks would he then have to decline it to be spiritual. If they offered him a tv show where he talks about OBE would he then have to not accept profits and instead tell the networks who are making money " I cant accept".
Give me a break. I see a lot of judging based on an opportunity not one person here would pass up. To do this stuff for a living and a good one. Is it that much more noble to make money sitting in an office making cash for your boss? Why?
One last post then bedtime for me. Just worked a few very long days.
Timeless,
I understood your post.. I think. And thank you for the compliment at least I know part of that was one. [;)].
I like that phrase... "spiritual materialism" and I agree with what you said.
hope things are going well.
WELL SAID, GOINGSLOW! [8D][:D][;)][8)]
I just wanted to say that I agree with Adrian. I do not know whether or not Edwards is genuine, but most of the truly gifted people I have met do not live lives in the spotlight or use their talents to make money.
Sure Robert is making money off of the sales of his books, but at the same time he offered his advice for free for years before he ever wrote a book and furthermore, his book is not expensive and more than anything else it is truly helpful.
I have studied Edwards and he can be VERY convincing, at the same time, however, there are methods one can master to decieve.
I would like to talk to someone who has known him as a life long friend or something like that.
Dan
I found this and thought I would post it for those interested in what people who don't believe in Edwards have to say:
John Edward is a psychic who is making headlines on television. He has been on the Oprah Winfrey show, Larry King Live and a host of other well know TV programs. Unlike the spiritualists of yore, who typically plied their trade in dark-room séances, Edward and his ilk often perform before live audiences and on television. Indeed, Edward (a pseudonym: he was born John MaGee, Jr) has his own popular show on the SciFi channel and CBS2 called Crossing Over, which has gone into national syndication. Yes, he does claim to speak to the dead, and for that he charges $750 for a 30 minute private session and upwards to $100 for his convention style group sessions. My guess is that this multi-millionaire also speaks more frequently to his investment banker!
Spirit contact is growing today. People who have lost loved ones want to know that their deceased relatives are okay. People may seek advice from the departed loved one, but in most cases are subconsciously wanting to know what's in store for them one day.
What is spirit contact? It is contacting a disembodied being, whether it is believed to be a dead person, a being in another dimension, a spirit guide, a spiritual being, an advanced soul, a demon, a higher evolved Master, or any spirit. Spirit contact has been and is common in many cultures that contact dead ancestors and contact the spirit world for advice or for information on the future. In the United States, the religion of Spiritualism, which still exists, teaches that one can and should contact departed souls for advice. Those of you who have read my book know that I was once a spiritualist medium and I can attest with all certainty that there is something on the "other side". I thank God that I was able to realize that this "something" were demons who were impersonating the departed. If you don't get anything else from this piece, please pay attention here: YES, the 'other side' can be contacted...I have personally done so. But the contact is not with your former loved ones, but demons of the Prince of Darkness.
The Messages from the Spirits: John Edward's show, "Crossing Over," was so popular on the Sci-Fi channel, that it 'crossed over' from cable to regular network. Edward approaches a section of the audience and starts giving his 'impressions' of what he is getting, whether it be a name, numbers, or a date, until someone responds with information that matches. He also asks the person questions as he tosses out 'clues' he says he is receiving. Sometimes it seems that he is throwing out very general information and that the person in the audience is filling in the blanks for Edward. Other times, Edward seems to be uncannily accurate.
Interestingly, it seems the dead have a hard time being very clear. For example, they may show Edward pink roses to say that everything is alright, according to Edward, or they may show Edward a flag to indicate their past patriotism in this life. It is sort of like a game of spiritual charades. One wonders about this. Why can't the dead just speak words to Edward, or write them out on a "spirit chalkboard" so to speak? James Van Praagh (another popular medium in the U.S.), in explaining the difficulty he has in interpreting the symbols shown to him by spirits, said that the recently deceased spirits were just learning to communicate, and so one could not expect all messages to be clear. This raises other questions: Why do recently dead people have trouble communicating? Where do they get these objects that they show Edward and Van Praagh? Why can't they just project their thoughts into Edward's mind? Why are their messages so prosaic and, well, boring? The picture one gets of these creatures certainly does not present a very interesting company of people to pass the time with. Why would these spirits have any special wisdom just because they are dead?
Though the spirits always claim to be happy and to be doing well (is Hitler also there with them, doing okay?), we do not know why they are happy and doing well. What do they do, exactly? And if they told us, how do we know it's true? How can we test these spirits to see if they are lying about anything or everything they tell the mediums? The answer is that we can't test them based on our own experiences since we haven't been to the other side. Only God really knows who these spirits are, and He has told us through the scriptures that they are really demons.
Note that the messages from the "dead," from the spirits, and from channeled entities never encourage people to believe the Bible, never urge people to trust Christ for salvation, and often openly contradict God's word or even speak derisively of Christ as Savior.
Hi All.
Nay, at the time the Australian dollar was at around 50 cents U.S., so that may account for the variation in audience ticket prices.
Going Slow, misinformed..yes sometimes, Lying..never. I was told the prices by people who attended his shows in Australia, and they payed $85 to sit in the audience. It was the same people who asked how much for a one hour private session and were told $9,500. Naturally they declined.
Spiritual gifts are there to serve others, why else would we have them? To serve ourselves? If service to self and self-agrandisement were the primary goals to our incarnating here then I would have no problem with John becoming a Multi-Millionaire from what he does. But, that is not the driving force behind incarnation is it??
Someone recently said to me that John Edwards would have an experience that will change his motivation and he will free himself from the need to increase his personal wealth. I look forward to it.
Love always.[:)]
Greetings everyone,
I believe there is a big difference between making a full blown, highly lucrative business using spiritual abilities, irrespective of whether they are genuine, and selling books.
There are many reasons to charge a modest price for a book. First of all, in the case of Spiritual books such as those of Robert, the primary objective is to achieve as wide distribution as possible in order to help as many people as possible. The only way this can happen in this commercial world is for everyone in the chain from the publisher to the distributors, the books stores of all sizes and the major online retailers to be fully motivated to sell the book, and this is turn means everyone making a profit. The person who makes the least profit in fact is the author, who generally receives perhaps $1 per book sold. Contrast a book with a wealth of information which is owned and can be referred to forever with a ticket for a 60 minute TV show costing $85 or even a personal reading for much more. It should also be noted that authors actually need to live, feed and cloth their children, and generally continue to survive to write more books for the benefit of humanity.
It is fundamentally inappropriate to compare an author with genuine abilities and knowledge such as Robert with a highly paid stage psychic.
With best regards,
Adrian.
LOL Adrian you really do crack me up.
So the break down is how much they make off their books. Here's a news flash JE makes most of his money off his books. But he might get a better deal than RB.. you're right.. when you break down the percentages.
So John edward doesn't benefit humanity and he's not struggling just to feed his kids. Apparently you didnt read the part where the tickets to see his television show are free and the money he receives from that are from the network.
Tell me Adrian, how many lives to I have left?
almost every post you make has a "who is higher" feel to it. It amazes me you dont see this.
Again the Seminar.. free? When does the importance of the books stop and the spirituality end.
In a way I envy you. It would be kinda nice to sit around with these set formulas. A book that benefits humanity. ahh spiritually aware and advanced. You get offered a TV show .. obviously not spiritually aware. That you broke it down to exactly how much profit they make off of a book and equate that to spiritual awareness really went above the call of duty.
Good job!
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin
Spiritual gifts are there to serve others, why else would we have them? To serve ourselves? If service to self and self-agrandisement were the primary goals to our incarnating here then I would have no problem with John becoming a Multi-Millionaire from what he does. But, that is not the driving force behind incarnation is it??
What do you care what someone else uses their gifts for? Your path should be everyone elses? Its a value judgement based on nothing but new age books which state its wrong to make money in this world. That is unless you do psychic stuff as a hobby and are a CEO or engineer on the side.
Im staying off this topic now. This degree of judgement on a person's spirituality kinda disgusts me and is an old topic not specific to John Edward.
Its based on new age BS which says everyone has to be the same. A person struggling 9-5 making housecalls doing psychic work. Cracks me up how a group of people who claim to "think outside the box" are so tied into New age philosophies on what a person should or shouldnt do to show their spiritual awareness.
Well, I still can figure out why it isn't ok to make money for your family but eh, whatever.
Peaceful, I did a google search and most of the links were negative!
So, I assuming that is where you got your info, which most of it was just not true..
Adrian, I wonder if Mr. Bruce would, if given the opportunity to be a highly paid stage OOB teacher, would jump at the chance? Think of how many ppl he could reach and teach? But alas he is just not that well known for that. Oh, and John Edward wrote books before he became a "high paid stage psychic" That is how I found out about him and this was back when the section in the bookstores was still called "occult"..hehehe..
I have read all of JE's books and in "crossing over" he explains alot of reasons why things have happened the way they have happened..but I am going to take the time to re-read it and come back with more info.
In the mean time please go to this link I have provided.
http://www.johnedwardfriends.org/testimonials.shtml
Nay. [;)]
Having never seen John Edwards before, I can only say with 99.9% certainty that he is a fraud.
All he is doing is repeating the famous old card trick where you "read someone's mind" by skillful use of language and narrowing down possibilities. It looks impressive done one-on-one, but looks like a sham in front of an audience, where the "magician" cannot fail !
Its the equivalent of asking everyone in an audience to think of a card...you know that at least one person will have picked it.
Unfortunately, the audience is normally biased in that it is made up of people who already "want to believe", and have paid money to participate, and are also too embarrassed to complain / deny / argue with the person on stage (a common factor with the roving sales you find in most towns...a man stands outside a shop with a loudspeaker promising bargains and whipping the crowd into a frenzy. When they receive bog standard goods, they are too embarrassed to complain.)
Personally, I think these kind of "entertainers" should be outlawed...however...
Hi Nay !
quote:
I have to agree with Goingslow on this one.. I believe JE is helping thousands of ppl..
I agree, he is doing "good" in a roundabout kind of way - but is he merely telling people what they want to hear ? Is that morally wrong or right ?
Adrian, you beat me to it :
quote:
It is fundamentally inappropriate to compare an author with genuine abilities and knowledge such as Robert with a highly paid stage psychic.
Goingslow, I can see where you are coming from :
quote:
If Robert Bruce suddenly had 3 million fans and made a million bucks would he then have to decline it to be spiritual.
Obviously, the answer is no....why should he have to decline money to be spiritual ? I don't think you can draw this conclusion from the original post anyway; it doesn't follow on.
But there is a reason why he doesn't have such a massive fan base...he doesn't tell people that he can converse with their dead relatives.
Anyway, I'm off to get my palm read !!
Mark
hi Nay ! I'll take some time to look at your link later.
ps - to all those in favour of JE, I'm just putting across my opinion in my last post....I'm not out to make enemies of you guys !
kind regards
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by clandestino
Having never seen John Edwards before, I can only say with 99.9% certainty that he is a fraud.
Sorry thats all your post I read.
Some of this stuff is too funny.
Having never seen his show I can say how he does it. He sits at the front of the stage yelling. I have someone here who's name starts with an A. An A and they gave a watch to someone in the audience.
One more thing what I was arguing here wasn't against anyone who has WATCHED him and even knows his name is Edward not Edwards and thinks he's a fraud. Thats your perogative. Its the ones whove never watched and who just know because.. well they just know.
Or the assumption which always comes up that if you're doing what he's doing you cant be real because.
1. Psychics who can do this thing are spiritually aware.
2. Spiritually aware people dont profit off their talents even if they're getting the message across to a million more people. They stay low key with small followings. Its like when youre favorite band gets famous. Sell out!
3. You are not spiritually aware thus cant be psychic and real BECAUSE of the fact you're not a struggling psychic.
The keys to figuring out another's spirituality. Hmmm I dont think a book like that would sell millions. You might be safe (to no one in particular [8)]
i was just trying to put across the point that I would be 100% certain he's a fraud if I had seen him ! but you're right Goingslow, it does read pretty badly...
Goingslow, unfortunately for us the physical world is built on logic and safety ! And being sceptical is part of that. I've seen t.v. psychics before (on t.v. suprisingly) and they are simply frauds.
Believe what you want, and remember that a fool and his money are easily parted !
goingslow, it looks like you're from the "how can you possibly know anything about it, you've never done it" school of thought.
Good for you ! But I don't intend to pay up to find out whether I'm right or wrong.
Anyway, its all getting a bit heated in here now... no disrespect meant, goingslow.
regards,Mark
quote:
Having never seen John Edwards before, I can only say with 99.9% certainty that he is a fraud.
I too found this a little ummmm..strange to say, then to be followed by a opinion on something you have never seen..
quote:
hi Nay ! I'll take some time to look at your link later.
I really hope you do..hehehe..then you might have some info to base your opinion on..(but beware..they are actually ppl who have spoken to JE)
Well, I must go..Crossing Over is on!..LOL.
Something I noticed while watching, when someone starts to give info, instead of just answering yes or no, John Edward says.."no, shhh don't tell me, that is my job.." If he was a fake wouldn't he just allow them to spill their guts and make his job easier?...ok, I am back to watching Crossing Over..[:D]
Nay. [;)]
Just read over this thread, and have seen "Crossing Over". It seems like JE does give specific enough answers to people. That is, brings up specific enough information that only the relatives or friends in the audience would know about. So, I think he has psychic abilities based on what I've seen.
Also, curiousgirl mentioned a book. I have read that book. It is impressive in the scientific way JE and others were scrutinized. The book leaves little room to think JE is a fraud.
Another thing, my opinion is that for most people, that is people just watching tv, JE could have a positive spiritual impact. This is, because some people need reassurance of life after physical death. In my opinion, this show provides it to them.
Finally, on a personal note, I do appreciate and value what Adrian says. One of the nice things about this forum is we can agree to disagree. goingslow, I value what you say as well, but I can't help but feel you're making your disagreement with Adrian a bit personal. I'd like to hope we can have different opinions and treat each other with respect.
Very best,
Hey, we don't get "crossing over" here ! I feel like we're missing out...
Anyway I'm gonna go away and actually find out a bit more about this JE guy before blindly chucking in my 2 pence worth again ...
cheers.
Hehehe..ok everyone..group hug!!...
awwwwwww, much better!!! Ok, I will not post anymore on this topic, I guess it could go on and on..[:O] I believe, I don't, I do, I don't....hehehe.
I guess I just felt the need to stick up for JE..[:)] Cause he has been a inspiration for me..
Hugs,
Nay [;)]
yeah.. group hug
quote:
Originally posted by clandestino
goingslow, it looks like you're from the "how can you possibly know anything about it, you've never done it" school of thought.
regards,Mark
Id never suggest you have to become a medium before you call some medium a fraud. It just seems right to watch a person's work before you call them a fraud with 99.9 degree of certainty. Maybe thats unrealistic.
I do believe if you're prepared to give criticism be prepared to receive it. I wouldnt take offense by anything after I criticized someone else. But it goes all ways.
Just like Lasher and nick have their comments. Its all part of puting criticism out there and is fair (in my mind).
If there's truth in them then Im glad they told me.
One possible criticism: I came back after I said I wouldnt.
Judgemental on many things is another.
Best thing you can do is look at yourself.. before but especially after you look at someone else.
fair enough goingslow...i was too hasty earlier on with my ridiculous 99.9% post ! It didn't come out as I meant it.
Anyway, no offence taken !
ps I didn't expect to see you back, after you said that you wouldn't, either ?!
One possible criticism: I came back after I said I wouldnt.
Judgemental on many things is another.
[/quote]
way ahead of ya.
Greetings Goingslow,
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
LOL Adrian you really do crack me up.
So the break down is how much they make off their books. Here's a news flash JE makes most of his money off his books. But he might get a better deal than RB.. you're right.. when you break down the percentages.
It is nothing to do with selling books per se, but rather motive. No one could accuse Robert Bruce of gross commercialism, and Robert does help an enormous number of people without wanting compensation. How many people does John Edwards help without charge do you think?
quote:
So John edward doesn't benefit humanity and he's not struggling just to feed his kids. Apparently you didnt read the part where the tickets to see his television show are free and the money he receives from that are from the network.
I didn't say he does not benefit humanity, and I have no idea whether he even has any kids. I know the tickets for TV audiences are free, because they need the enough people for it to work and appluad in the right places. What I said was he gets highly paid by the TV networks.
quote:
almost every post you make has a "who is higher" feel to it.
In your own mind perhaps. I am not comparing Robert and John Edwards on a Spiritual level, but on a humanitarian and philanthropic level.
quote:
Again the Seminar.. free? When does the importance of the books stop and the spirituality end.
You are making things too black and white. I am talking about overt commercialism as opposed to a genuine motivation to assist people as is the case with Robert for example.
quote:
In a way I envy you. It would be kinda nice to sit around with these set formulas. A book that benefits humanity. ahh spiritually aware and advanced. You get offered a TV show .. obviously not spiritually aware. That you broke it down to exactly how much profit they make off of a book and equate that to spiritual awareness really went above the call of duty.
You take things too literally [:)] I comment on what I see and believe, not to "set formula".
With best regards,
Adrian.
Who is John Edwards and why does everybody knows who he is, except me?
quote:
You take things too literally I comment on what I see and believe, not to "set formula".
I thought about it and I realized that because of the fact you're the Admin here I often take your posts as coming from some "authority". Which really shouldnt be the case, since it isnt really fair to you.
I came off more harsh than I intended partly due to some BS at work.. which always seems to carry over when I log on here. I apologize for that.
I would like to add the tickets are given at random and people dont applaud or ooh and aah on cue. I really suggest people watch the show.. It isnt what I expected because after seeing a few people who "talk to the dead" I refused to watch it. Then to please my g/f I finally sat down to see it and he really goes out of his way to not talk about jewelry or let people "make things fit". Often people will say "thats me.. you're talking about me" and he'll say "no I'm not..". Where as many others are so grateful someone validateswhat they're saying they let whomever own it.
I had to think back on my view of people who do what he does to realize I felt the same way. Like I said he's very aware of the debunking sites and he always clarifies "you already told me his name so.. or nw I know what she died of" if they blurt it out. He is very careful not to cheat. IN fact he shows what a person might do if the cold read at times because hes all for debunking frauds. He'll tell the audience not to give ANY additional information.
Anyway, if people watch and have real gripes with how he reads thats one thing. But to just assume he does these tricks he purposely exposes and stays away from really isnt right.
take care
zz
And what is the problem with him? Why are you discussing him so much, makin comparisons with Robert Bruce?
quote:
Originally posted by MJ-12
John Edwards is one of the many Democratic Presidential candidates to replace Bush in 2004.
More like a TV psychic that has a show on Sci-Fi called 'Crossing Over'.
LOL[:D][:D][:D][:D]
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
What do you care what someone else uses their gifts for? Your path should be everyone elses? Its a value judgement based on nothing but new age books which state its wrong to make money in this world. That is unless you do psychic stuff as a hobby and are a CEO or engineer on the side.
Its based on new age BS which says everyone has to be the same. A person struggling 9-5 making housecalls doing psychic work. Cracks me up how a group of people who claim to "think outside the box" are so tied into New age philosophies on what a person should or shouldnt do to show their spiritual awareness.
Hi All,
Going Slow, I care because it is my chosen task to make a change in this world, to make a difference. My opinion is not a value judgement it is what I have come to understand on my path, and no, all people should not be the same.
Whether I am teaching journey techniques or regressing people to past lives, counselling or helping people to meet their Guides, I always do so for free. It is my goal to share with Love as I do not need the trappings of wealth. These things mean so much more to me than money ever could, because I do not live the western lifestyle of excess and over-abundance. I know the Universe supplies all my needs and am happy for that. This is not new-age semantics, it is a fact in my life.
Please understand this, I have no qualm with John charging money for sharing his gifts, only with the amount that he charges for the small benefit he is providing. He could just as easily teach people how to meet and work with their own Guidance which is far more beneficial to the individual in todays society, and he could also make a comfortable living out of it, instead of reaping in the Millions for personal gain. As an aside to this, I would dearly love to see John use his wealth to do good works in the real world that would help others in real ways. That would be an effective use of his personal excess, and I am confident that he will come to do this in a few more years.
Love always.[:)]
hi folks, has anyone heard of an American medium called John Holland ? He was on the James Whale show here in the UK last night....I took a few notes of the converstations he had with callers...but i forgot to bring them in ! will do this tomorrow.
It was interesting stuff. He also recommended people read Bob Monroe's books, after one caller talked about his astral sight / sleep paralysis.
hmmm... i don't know what to say about how much he charges... i had only heard that he charges 200 for private readings... haha, maybe he's boosting prices to discourage people from bugging him! [;)] anyway, i don't really think that the fact that he does or doesn't charge, or how much he charges, really determines whether he has ability or not. only some good proof can determine that. while i agree that it would seem someone in contact with the spirit worlds should be more "spiritually aware" than the average person, i still think it's highly possible for someone to abuse even those kinds of powers. perhaps rare, but possible. when you're dealing w/the human race, you can count on someone being an exception to the rule... nobody's perfect! he could be a case of a highly talented person letting it all get to his head. and perhaps john edward has his own unique lesson to learn from this, this circumstance of having a unique ability and abusing it for fame & money. i say it's bound to happen sometime, that you'll run across someone who is in touch with other worlds, but is still corrupted by materialism. well, john edward will get his ultimate lesson eventually for ripping people off, ability or no ability.
I think he is most likely a fraud. I think that he is using cold reading thats when someone keeps on asking peaple questions fishing for clues. If he really was in comunication with the deceased then why does he have to ask the living so many questions.
Do you think that John Edward is a fraud or not. Easy yes/no or give an explanation too. Thanks, xgoz.