"arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind."
No it's not.
" i think there should be more of it on this forum. friendly, of course but nonetheless fierce."
Well what if I don't? I have opinions too.
"someone bring up something (non-political) that would be contraversial and i will take up the other side of the argument."
Well what if I want the other side?
"it doesn't even have to be something you feel strongly about."
Yes it does. It says so in the unwritten book of rules.
" bring up an argument that you've recently had w/ someone that you've won or lost."
No.
"preferably one that you've won since you've obviously had the better case. let's have some fun."
Fun sucks. I say we all be miserable.
Sorry Fredhedd, couldn't resist! I was reading your post and thought of the Monty Python skit about the argument room. [:D] Actually that's not a bad idea. Okay, I'll try to think of something...
Okay, how about I give you a list of my opinions and you counter them.
I think aliens are real and I say they do exist.
I think weed is healthier than alcohol, when consumed in ways that do not involve smoking it.
I think that the reason seemingly random and/or bad things happen to us is so that we will fully understand the consequences of our actions and the actions of others. Everything happens for a reason, and fate does exist.
you had me going for a minute. the first few lines i was thinking, 'did i tinkle someone off already?' good job.
thinking that aliens could exist is acceptable. firmly believing they do is not. unless you've had some experience that has shown you that they do exist then it's not really safe to say otherwise. taking things on faith is dangerous and will kind of give you a weak belief.
w/ all of our capabilities it's still not been proven that aliens exist. leaving aside the x-files bit and roswell stuff. even though we've barely scratched the surface of universe exploration we haven't found life anywhere else but here. anywhere. that's kind of hard to go up against. it just seems more likely that someone came up w/ the idea of aliens and a lot of people took to it. right now there is the idea floating around that aliens exist. now when events take place or discoveries are made that can't be explained it's just so convenient to say 'aliens'. no proof man. no proof is hard to go up against. no proof w/ no experience is even harder. to have a belief w/out one of those two is flimsy.
i don't think i can argue the healther bit. that would just come down to science. it either is or isn't.
things happen because of a reason is more correct than things happen for a reason. things happen because something made them happen. not things happen because things are supposed to be a certain way. if you believe in fate then free will is out the door. believing that free will doesn't exist would kind of make all of this pointless. we would be here just to experience something that was already mapped out. we couldn't really learn from mistakes that weren't ours in the first place. if you believe in fate and free will then drinking a bottle of poison will only kill you if that was your fate.
if two people commit the same crime but one of them gets away w/ it then they each learn a different lesson. one may learn that he feels what he did was wrong. the other may feel the opposite. they both may learn how to be better at the crime they committed. either way the consequences aren't the same. it's easy to think everything happens for a reason.
say an event takes place 'a' which in turn allows even 'b' to take place. it's easy to think 'a' was supposed to take place because w/out it 'b' would never have been possible. and since 'b' did take place 'a' had to have taken place. that's illogical. it's just an easy way of thinking. like laying the responsibility for unsolved mysteries to the aliens.
quote:
Originally posted by EnderWiggin
"arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind."
No it's not.
EW: That's just contradiction, it's not argument. :)
Yours,
Frank
I'm going to take a stance on faith.
I believe that some degree of faith is necesary. It's sort of a temporary "just in case" until it becomes a known. Faith opens you up to the possibility of something's existence. I'll try a simple example.
I believe that we are all one. I do not know this of course, but I do strongly believe it. Without having faith in this idea, I would never open myself up to possibility and would have probably lived a life of defeat, thinking there is no point to life. If you think about it, it's kind of a battle between idealism and realism, with me taking the side of idealism.
i don't want to counter counters. we could be arguing about the same topic for weeks. and since these are topics that can't be proved scientifically, there really is no right or wrong.
i do however want to keep arguing. i'd like this thread to just continue on. after the posts rebutting my argument are finished there should be another topic brought up.
anyone?
I think aliens exist based on the recent statistics that NASA gave for the ability for planets (or their moons) to sustain life. It doesn't mean that life necessarily can originate on these planets, it just means that it's possible to sustain life, because of resources like water and/or geothermal heat.
my kind of thread.. here goes:
Like anything else the fanatics and crazy people made the whole UFO thing silly.
I believe there is life on other planets.. because of the fact we're so far from perfect. The universe is infinite how could we possibly believe all that out there is only for us to view..
But have you ever seen those people who have been abducted 100 times? they just want fame or are really crazy but they ruin a serious topic for everyone else.
I however think the government is right to keep it secret. People who are normally the types saying "the goverment is hiding things from us they should tell us all" obviously are on the same level as the ones the goverment doesn't tell for a reason.
REmember the war of the worlds fiasco?
When there's a threat from another country people get paranoid. You see them calling for the government to protect us. If we believed there were other life species out there they'd be terrified.. The last thing we need are weapons distributed on a wide level to fight aliens. People fear the unknown. even though they claim to want to know most people counldnt handle it.
People are sheep. everyone hates governments but all the government is are people who run a country. Its people with power.. its not the government vs the rest of us. Its people with power vs people trying to stop others from abusing that power.
I cant stand people who act as if all people are good especially society except for the evil government. Put your best friend as president or give them billions and have them in the top 2 percent of the world. They'll be the same people you hate right now (thats for anarchy type people).
The free thinking intelligent people are in the minority.
My stance on aliens is that a year ago I thought that that Aliens were about as likely as OBEs. Well now, if OBEs are real, why not aliens.
Anyways, I think that Atlantis existed. Anybody want to prove me wrong?[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by fredhedd
you had me going for a minute. the first few lines i was thinking, 'did i tinkle someone off already?' good job.
thinking that aliens could exist is acceptable. firmly believing they do is not. unless you've had some experience that has shown you that they do exist then it's not really safe to say otherwise. taking things on faith is dangerous and will kind of give you a weak belief.
w/ all of our capabilities it's still not been proven that aliens exist. leaving aside the x-files bit and roswell stuff. even though we've barely scratched the surface of universe exploration we haven't found life anywhere else but here. anywhere. that's kind of hard to go up against. it just seems more likely that someone came up w/ the idea of aliens and a lot of people took to it. right now there is the idea floating around that aliens exist. now when events take place or discoveries are made that can't be explained it's just so convenient to say 'aliens'. no proof man. no proof is hard to go up against. no proof w/ no experience is even harder. to have a belief w/out one of those two is flimsy.
i don't think i can argue the healther bit. that would just come down to science. it either is or isn't.
things happen because of a reason is more correct than things happen for a reason. things happen because something made them happen. not things happen because things are supposed to be a certain way. if you believe in fate then free will is out the door. believing that free will doesn't exist would kind of make all of this pointless. we would be here just to experience something that was already mapped out. we couldn't really learn from mistakes that weren't ours in the first place. if you believe in fate and free will then drinking a bottle of poison will only kill you if that was your fate.
if two people commit the same crime but one of them gets away w/ it then they each learn a different lesson. one may learn that he feels what he did was wrong. the other may feel the opposite. they both may learn how to be better at the crime they committed. either way the consequences aren't the same. it's easy to think everything happens for a reason.
say an event takes place 'a' which in turn allows even 'b' to take place. it's easy to think 'a' was supposed to take place because w/out it 'b' would never have been possible. and since 'b' did take place 'a' had to have taken place. that's illogical. it's just an easy way of thinking. like laying the responsibility for unsolved mysteries to the aliens.
Here's one that ususally gets people riled up.
Assisted Suiside should be legal.
Fredhedd...you can have the opening statement if you want.
(btw...if my replies are delayed it is becuase these next two weeks are going to be very crazy for me and I don't have much time to get on the internet)
Fredhead, you Are wrong. Life was found on another planet, albeit microscopically. Mars rocks were found to contain bacterial like life.......fossilized, but still proof that life is not exclusively on the planet earth alone. And if there is two planets in one solar system that have "life", the odds are in favor of it being elsewhere. I love to argue too, i think it helps expand my lateral thinking. e-mail me to let me know the times you are on-line.
Don't waste your time, you ain't got much of it anyway. If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirador
Don't waste your time, you ain't got much of it anyway. If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut.
*LOL* are you leading by example? A little introspection wouldnt hurt..
"If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut"
Mirador, your posts never cease to amaze me.
Great advice, but after I'm done looking around me, can't I tell someone what I've seen and compare it to what they have seen, and learn that way? When can I open my mouth? If you never want to talk about opposing points of view, then isn't that narrow minded? What is wrong with a quest for knowledge and understanding through discussion? Isn't that one great thing about being human? Being able to come up with different theories on life, perception, existence, good and evil, etc.. is what stimulates thought and makes us all unique. Are you mad at the world? Would you like to talk about it? Do you need a hug?
mirador, i can't tell if you are serious or not w/ all of these posts but i like them all. anyone who talks excrement, blatantly makes an butt of themselves and doesn't care continously is alright w/ me. it would be nice though if i could argue w/ you but you never say anything that makes any sense. it also would be awesome if you really were this very smart person you are portraying yourself to be, and still acting like an butt, but i doubt it. i would post excrement like that for fun all of the time if i didn't think i would eventually get banned from this site. why don't you keep doing it and see if you get banned?
strwrs, i didn't know that they found life on mars. that's really great. for the record i do believe life exists outside our planet, but i will stick to my argument. :)
psypunk, that's a good topic but i don't know how good of an argument anyone can come up w/ opposing being in favor of assisted suicide. that's probably me being overly confident though.
a friend of mine once told me about a book he was reading on samauri's. he said they used to kill theirselves when their time had come. they woudl just kneel down and stab themselves in the stomach w/ their sword. i think that is one of the most bad butt things i've ever heard.
most people think that killing is wrong. i believe that most of the people that say assisted suicide is wrong are only doing so because it's so easy to take a stand on it. they have so many people to back them up. half of them would probably change their mind if they sat down and thought it through.
i'm not going to use the excuse about people who are suffering in pain would be better off, blah blah blah. i think it's more of a - if you are sane, prepared for death and decide it's time to go, that you shoudl be able to do so.' almost nobody is prepared for death. almost nobody gets to choose when they move on. bringing as much awareness as you can into dying is important. you have a better chance at doing that if you choose when it will happen.
if i'm not missing anything, all assisted suicides are due to the person being unable to carry this out themselves because of some physical condition. if they could, they would.
another good point would be that both parties involved are consenting to do this. there isn't any 'wrong involved' until some outside party decides to call it that.
also, i don't feel that you can make a firm opposition unless you've been in the situation yourself. you can imagine all you like but first person perspective would really be something else. everything takes on a different perspective when you are the one experiencing it.
and my last point which is impossible to counter: if assisted suicide wasn't ok, god wouldn't allow it to happen. :)
I don't like the idea of assisted suicide. But I'm not going to stop anyone from it. God gave us free will, and we must use it for ourselves. Here's one for you. If assisted suicide should or should not be legal, what do you say about humans punishing each other and not leaving things up to karma? We ARE supposed to help each other in order to spiritually advance, but I don't think anyone should force anything on anyone else. If I saw someone being stabbed to death in the street and robbed of their money, I would certainly stop the attacker. I wouldn't just say "Oh well he's exercising his free will." But I would probably exercise MY free will to neutralize the assailant because I believe it is right to do so.
What a childish post.[:o)]
There is nothing wrong with a good intelligent,respectful
DEBATE.
But argueing?
Fun?[?]
If thats what you want to do there are plenty
of
chat rooms in Yahoo or MSN where you could argue your head
off and stay hidden and anynomous behind the computor screen.
Personally I have better things to do.
Like making freinds.[;)]
Enjoying conversation.
Life is too short.
Marilyn
quote:
Originally posted by A_Strong_Bond
What a childish post.[:o)]
There is nothing wrong with a good intelligent,respectful
DEBATE.
But argueing?
Fun?[?]
If thats what you want to do there are plenty
of
chat rooms in Yahoo or MSN where you could argue your head
off and stay hidden and anynomous behind the computor screen.
Personally I have better things to do.
Hey Marilyn, why did you take the effort to make this post, if you have better things to do? If you like more intelligent and respectful DEBATE, why didn't you make an intelligent and respectful reply then? Why don't you TRY to start an intelligent an respectfull debate then?
Hey, different people have fun in different ways. With such a thread you'll see who are friends. Friends can argue with eachother without becoming insulting. A friend would respect the initiative of freddhead and give it a good shot!
I like when people put "this is a waste of time I have better things to do" in this thread. I mean at least make a debate out of it.. but instead what you're doing is more like arguing.
Here you take the time to say you have better things to do but you take the time to do it and put it on this thread.
It really doesn't make anysense. me putting this thing does because I have no objection to this thread.
A real objection would be to stay off it...or present an intelligent debate stating its a waste of time. Just comes off as hypocritical to post on how much you enjoy making friends instead.
Fred...I said I believed in assisted suicide, so, i guess that's the end of that debate.
As for the idea that we shouldn't punish people, and just leave it up to Karma...
I really don't trust people enough to allow that. Everything in nature has a structured order that if it isn't followed there is a consequence. Can you imagine the chaos if we had no structured form of system at all? I think that victimless crimes shouldn't be considered crimes. For example, drugs, assisted suicide, and prostitution. People have enough common sense to not throw away their lives and send society into chaos if these things were legal.
Just like our society didn't collapse when alcohol was legalized.
As for people coming on here and saying "Arguing is dumb"
it all goes back to the Monty Python skit. "This isn't an argument, it's just contradiction" "no it isn't" "yes it is" "no it isn't" "yes it is" Which is why I consider Monty python comic geniuses.
I was not the only one who made a comment to Fred
about argueing.
Why do people want to argue?
Life is too short.
I,ve gone to too many funerals in my short life including my
own brother last year.
I have no time for fights and meanness.
If you want to argue you,ll have to find someone else for
that.
But nice try Goingslowly!
Wishing you peace.
Pass along a SMILE today![:)]
Marilyn
I would just like to point out the differences between a DEBATE and an ARGUMENT:
A DEBATE is a civilized, intellectual discussion about the different aspects and viewpoints of a topic. It can have two or more different sides.
An ARGUMENT is when someone tries to prove which viewpoint is the right one to have on specific (or not-so-specific) issues.
An ARGUMENT is more likely found in chat rooms and in low-grade social environments or situations, while a DEBATE is more likely to be found on boards such as these, where people go to have intelligent discussions about things.
I think this thread contains more DISCUSSIONS than ARGUMENTS, despite Fredhedd's request for an argument. This is a good thing.
DISCUSSIONS are intellectual conversations about certain topics, and can be one-sided (but they don't have to be and often aren't).
One thing i've seen you state enderwiggen many times which i think is not thought out at all is you think people shouldnt go to prison or jail. And you were suggesting in that post above that you're exercising your free will to stop him but he's exercizing his free will to stab her; you just happen to think its wrong so you stop him.
People aren't put in prisons only for punishment. Often times its to keep society safer. If we suddenly thought it was wrong to "punish" other humans would you want to live next to the murder's rapists etc?
Do you really think if there weren't laws against those things you'd be any more free? Are you the strongest fastest man out there? if not you'd be very limited in your freedom. If there were no laws just think for youself who would gain power. The moral citizen who doesn't commit crime even though its perfect legal?
Do you have sisters or a mom? Lets say you stop the person from raping or stabing. theres no law against it so provided he doesn't stab you.. unless you keep holding him he'll be free at some point. What if it was your sister he was stabing or raping.. theres no laws to keep him in jail so what.. he can go right back to her. You might suggest you shoot him to stop him from coming back after her since its your right. Then his family? What if they're ticked you killed him etc.
Have you seen the mentality when people are looting?
Im just glad that people who state humans shouldnt imprison or there shouldnt be laws against things since its just karma and who are we to interfere aren't the ones making the rules.
One last thing that is very important.. No one is preventing someone from killing the first time. No one is sayng people dont have free will.. they have the "free will" to kill or rape or steal. But there are consequences in this life.
I dont think you have kids now, and I realize children often aren't safe now. But think about if there were no prisons and no consequences. What would stop molesters from preying on children. And if you say vigilantes after a while that becomes a form of law. The whole police thing started that way..
Ive just read you put that on various topics and have never commented. Its good in theory and if you're ready to arm yourself.. and limit your outside excursions for those absolutely necessary.
this is fun........and o.k. i guess you could say we are debating, but at the same time i want to change everyone over to my way of [:D]thinking[:D] so i guess you could also say im arguing. so if you would all kindly start agreeing with me, a strong bond and the others who are wasting their time can go spend it elsewhere.[;)]
I admit you have a point, Goingslow, but out of how many people that exist, what percentage of those people are those who kill and rape and steal for no reason whatsoever? I think the vigilantism was a good idea, but the police tend to take it too far. I get harassed for going for walks at night, despite the fact that I have no criminal record. I am earning a degree in music at a college which is known for criminal justice and teaching. The goons that are majoring in criminal justice here frightens me. Many of them want to become police officers. My old roommate was probably THE worst human being I have ever met. He had no respect for anyone, not even himself. Yet he wanted to be a state trooper. Do you want someone like that enforcing the law? I don't. But I see it happening. I think that what our society has lost is its honor.
You're right about shooting the assailant, because that's probably what I'd do. I'd arm myself to the teeth. But if you think about that person's family, why would they come after me if I could prove to them, beyond reasonable doubt, that it was in self-defense? Most people, like I said, aren't really that irrational. Stupid, yes. Irrational, not quite. There are many people in jail for good reasons. I'll give you that. I would prefer that a rapist or serial killer or whoever would not be out on the street to do it again. What about mob rule? Obviously the rest of the world wouldn't want that person out on the street either. That's why if I didn't do anything about it, then someone else would. There are consequences in this life, with or without man's laws.
Back in the days of the Vikings, the women and children were moved to a large shelter/fortress in order to keep them safe during invasions from outside armies. If the armies succeeded and defeated the viking warriors, the women and children were killed in order to save them from being raped/taken away and enslaved. Now, I'm not saying we should resort to this, but this is the extreme opposite of what we have today. Our government, though it keeps us safe in many ways, is still taking away our rights. Unfortunately it seems that there are a lot of corrupt individuals who have obtained positions of power in congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court. Do you realize that just by disagreeing with the government, they can put you in jail without just cause, for as long as they want? In order for freedom to exist, so must safety, but safety cannot exist without freedom, either.
Like I said before, our society has lost its honor. I think that the human mind in general is unstable. It seems that no matter what system we humans come up with, it is bound to fail, usually due to some sort of irrational thinking, some individual who comes to power, or both. I think our disposable culture is irrational. People take things that are sacred and turn it into a product so they can market and sell it so that they can make lots of money. I think that people who worship money are irrational. We ask the government to fix these problems, but often our pleas fall on deaf ears.
I've written enough for now. I'm too tired to continue.
Please note this post is intended to start the affore mentioned aurgument. It is intened to be rude, mean, and state the fact as I feel they should be. Consider yourselves lucky I don't run the world.....yet.
This is aimed at the toad lickers who would recieve summery executions under my rule for not believing in what I say.
Now, not only should assisted suicide be legal it should be a state run affair. The following rules will be instituted when I assume the thrown.
1. All aplications for the new "Guided Termination Proceedure" will be filed in triplicate. One copy for the state archives, One for the next of kin if applicable, and one for the public records.
2. All personal affairs must be put in order before Guided Termination can begin. These things include but are not limited to: A. the settling of all debts. B- The completion of a legal will. C- The payment of the "GTP Tax" which is 10% of total personal assets. D- proof of terminal illness by a court appointed doctor.
3. Failure to complete the above to the satisfaction of the court could result in summery execution in which case all personal assets would become property of the state.
Law and the death penalty.
All current "Life in Prison" sentances will be transfered to a "Death Sentance". All those under sentance of death will have 3 attempts to file for a re-trial. This must be done within 5 years of the first sentancing. Before final sentance is passed those wishing to do so will be given the opportunaty to serve in the "Brute Force Division" of Royal Army of Dave. The BFD will be responsible for most of the high risk military operations. Those completing 5 years of successful service will be given the option to return to society.
All current laws will be dropped. A basic live and let live moral code will be adopted. Every one will be free to do as they will as long as it does not infringe on others.
Oh yeah, everyone except me will be getting a chip put in thier brain case so I know where they are all the time. If you don't like it you will recieve a summery execution.
a strong bond - if you want to argue/knitpick over the definition of argument and debate, then maybe one of those rooms you suggested is the place for you. would you have commented if this topic was called 'let's debate' ? you can see we are all being civil about this. who cares if i titled it let's argue instead? it was just marketing. an argument is juicy. people are attracted to them. if you would have looked at this thread and not seen the title, there would be no problem.
i enjoy it when people comment just to make themselves look better/smarter than everyone else and end up making themselves look like an butt. if you want to debate this, let me know. i'm very interested in hearing what you have to say. or, you could just not comment here anymore. that way you can pretend like you didn't read this. :)
psy - i must have skipped over the part that said you were in favor of assisted suicide. i would write another post taking up the opposition now, but now that i've already made a statement, i don't know how much sense that would make. i will do it though, if you like :)
Ha ha..don't worry about taking up the other side of the assisted suicide argument fred, my retort would be, "in retaliation I would like to say everything you originally said on this topic"
Here's one that a friend and I have been debating. "Would America be able to survive under the same system of Government (Democracy) if our population and natural recourses equaled that of China's? (US population = about 280 mil. we have tons of natural recourses. China's population is 1.2 Billion and they don't have nearly as many recourses or as favorable climate, location, etc.." Actually, that is to political of a debate...here is another one that I have been talking about with some friends, "Does spanking lead children to be more violent?"
I say No, spanking does not lead to children becoming more violent.
leading by example is a good way to do things.
i suppose there could be some research done on this to prove it out. maybe there was already some done.
there are things that are alright for you to do, but not for your child. usually these things you don't do in front of your child. drugs, cursing. you don't want them to see that it's alright to do these things even though you may feel it's fine for you to.
they view your actions and act accordingly. they do what we do. this doesn't just apply to children. all over the world people mimic each other. sometimes not even realizing it at the time. have you ever done the yawning bit to someone? making sure you are in someone elses sight, even their peripheals, you yawn. even if the other person isn't tired, there is a very good chance they will also yawn. this works very well if you are already speaking w/ someone and there aren't many other distractions around. just seeing violence, feeds violence. in this sense it would be more sub-consciously, but we all know how powerful the sub is.
children are too young to understand any reason why it would be alright for you to hit them, but not alright for them to hit another. if such a reason even exists. its contradicting to see them be hit, and then get yelled at when they do it.
to consistently experience pain will lead to unhappiness. in a lot of cases i would say it will also lead to anger. even after the moment of pain, there will be reflection. it makes sense that if someone were more happy they would be less violent, less angry.
hitting children shows them that you can solve a problem w/ violence, even if you are telling them otherwise. they get hit until they do what you are telling them to do. if it works for you, it should work for them, right? maybe they won't do it in front of you because of the punishement involved, but as soon as you take that punishment away, there is nothing stopping it from happening.
people refrain from doing certain things because they will be punished. not because they are wrong. the reason for laws. until they can tell the difference between right and wrong, for themselves, the only things stopping them from being violent is violence.
I don't care if hitting your kid makes them violent or not. Look at how small and helpless children are. They depend on you for everything. Their is no reason what so ever to use physical force against them. However, I can see smacking their hand real quick if they reach up to stick it in a frying pan or something..lol That's just a safety issue. Parents that hit their kids are just bad impatient parents who don't take the time to really be WITH their children. The only way I would ever be forceful with my kid is if they were like...satan child. Just born that way, and through no fault of my own terribly evil...(eyes rolling back in head, ripping my hair out, biting me etc.) But, even then only forceful enough to subdue(sp?)them. And that never happens...they always get it from somewhere!! I've seen jenny jones...with the drill sergent guy..whats his name?? Raymond Moses lolololANYWAY...
Let's argue about the definition of debate or debate the definition of arguing! AAAAAnd...
Assisted suicide is a good thing.
I do believe in e.t.'s (saw a spaceship)
Pot should be legal and alchohol illeagle.
Prostitution should be legal.(not for me..just in general lol)
President Bush is a moron.(the apple doesn't fall...)
down with the electoral college..(democracy anyone?)
Gays should be allowed to adopt children.
Men or People with no adopted children should not be allowed to oppose legal abortion.
I propose cable t.v. and internet access for the entire population of the middle-east so that they can be distracted from war, polotics,and religion long enough to build their own middle-eastern hollywood. I think it is a viable solution, as opposed to war..Believe me people, it's nothing that a coupla' grande lattes can't fix!
monicat..... im sorry but i dont think you are old enough to say some of the thiongs you just did. george bush is bad because "the apple doesnt fall far from the tree?" c'mon you dont even know his father or what he did. all you are showing us is that you are easily duped by other peoples opinions... because thats the only place where you have heard about george bush sr. and spanking kids...... absolutely!!!! there is a huge difference between a spanking and child abuse.... you just happen to be from the generation that believes kids are on an equal level with the parents.
i am not talking about human rights violations against your kids, but what i am saying is that ones kids need to learn RESPECT!!!!they need to be afraid of the consequences of skrewing up. i know how bad this sounds, but, kids do need to have a small fear of their parents...not the holy crap they are going to beat the sh.. out of me and put me in the hospital kind of fear... but again a fear that makes them police their own behavior to a certain degree because they are afraid of what the parent is going to do. without this fear a child will not stop themselves from certain bad behavior.....this is what keeps most people in line in society..... a fear of going to jail...if this fear was not here i can think of certain people i would eradicate off the face of the earth.without the fear what would stop people from doing pretty much whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted?
and gays being able to adopt? no way! i dont have anything against "gays"(nice word by the way) but i feel doing this to a child is worse than [:O] spanking. this kid is going to be having an abnormal amount of crap coming at him or her because kids are cruel!
they will take this kind of situation and tear them apart because of it. It really ticked me off when my 9 yr old daughter came home and told me about the book they read in school, MY TWO MOMMIES< or whatever it is called. this is an issue that i wanted to shelter my girls from until i was ready to tell them. first... the school took this decision completly out of my hands.... second... it brought up the issue of sex with them which i was also waiting for my timing....
and third.... we are a fairly religious family and my girls both know what the bible says on these issues(gays) and that opened a whole can of worms there!
other than these things i agree with you..
and i apoligize(sp) for tearing into you.... i really am not as assholeish as i sound....i just wish people would educate themselves more before they start taking such firm stands on things.
oh just one more thing.....i feel that if you can tell us what the name of the drill instructor on the jenny jones show.... you are aparently watching tooooo much trash and not enough educational stuff. (but i will agree that it is funny to watch people make complete asses of themselves)
Excuse me SIR..First of all, you are not even 10 yrs older than me. I mean, when you were my age it was okay to bring a child into the world, but not to have political views?? GIMME A BREAK!!!! I didn't intend on elaborating on my view of why I believe Bush is a moron. I think his father did a poor job as well. That is my oppinion and I am entitled to it, regardless of what you might think. Further, don't bash people on their level of education! Especially not while making obvious grammatical errors. Seriously, it looks foolish.
My dear, our generations are NOT that far apart. Don't make assumptions about how other people may or may not have been raised based on age. It's just discriminatory and in no way indicative of one's upbringing.
RESPECT is built out of LOVE AND TRUST not FEAR!
I'm so sorry if you are too OLD to understand this OUTRAGEOUS point of view. Children are innately innocent. Fear teaches them to lie, fear teaches them to cheat and sneak. If you are on a level above them and you don't care to get down onto their level, to explore life with them, and truly teach, then that's on you. One day...you WILL agree with me.
You tell me ONE thing that a child could do.. (without following the poor example set forth by an irresponsible adult at some point)that would deem them worthy of you putting your hands on them in a violent way(and it IS violence)???? Just one thing that warrants them feeling even smaller and more helpless than they already are? Any reason at all.. something that a CHILD could do, to deserve the feeling, that the only people on the planet responsible to love and protect them, now have to physically hurt them and rip that sacred shelter away? Because that's what you are doing.
Fear doesn't keep people out of jail..wanting to be a productive member of society keeps people out of jail & it has nothing to do with finding a way to justify spanking a child. Maybe wanting to be a productive member of society instead of fear would keep you from hurting another person if you weren't raised like an animal.
I respect you being ticked about the book your 9 yr. old read!! That is potentially objectional material and you should have been notified!!
As far as 'gays'..(i dunno if you know any homosexuals [i'm going to go out on a limb and say probobly not]..but they do refer to themselves as GAY) Maybe it's not P.C. to pluarlize it, but I don't really care.
You are lucky..your children have parents. Many children do not. Your argument about the flack they will get in school is just stupid. I'm sorry, I'm just going to be blunt. Gee let me think, what will do more damage...a child being raised by the system with no family to speak of, or being teased in school and having loving parents in their life?? Yes children can be cruel. They get it from idiotic parenting and then from eachother.
If you are going to teach your children what the bible says about homosexuality as a tool to deal with this issue (as opposed to 'love thy neighbor', 'do unto others..','shalt not judge..'[you know all of the truly GOOD and PRODUCTIVE things the bible can teach]etc.) then they will be the exact children that make life so difficult for the children adopted by homosexual parents. Because YOU will teach them that it is unacceptable and abnormal. So people like YOU are responsible for the torment these kids have to face and the damage it does!!!
Also...(back to the bush) YOU WE'RE 14 WHEN BUSH SR. WAS ELECTED!!! This is BASIC MATH PEOPLE!! I'm sure you were the leading news source on polotics at your junior high. C'mon!!!!!!!!
BTW I live in America, the land of media and pop-culture. Yes, I watch television and that includes trash as well as "educational STUFF".<--as you so eloquently stated. I read books as well as magazines..WHAT'S YOUR POINT?? Oh I remember..certain people can only grasp so much at once.
I don't think you are an moron...this forum is called LET'S ARGUE after all.lol I didn't take it personally and I don't have ANYTHING against you. (well except for an obvious distaste for some of your beliefs) But, they are yours and you're entitled to them.(and you don't need me to point that out!)
I feel my reaction to your post was just considering the words you chose to express some of your oppinions. If you are offended then you are offended.
DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME HERE?????????????
DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME HERE?????????????
I havn't read anything on this thread but keeping with the name of it, I will have to disagree with you(whatever that is).
well I guess if it was just for the sake of argument..I can respect that.lolol But somebody must agree with me????????? No one would accuse you of being off topic! wait hmm...if you agree with me then say why you DISAGREE with strwrs_guru! I'm starting to confuse myself.lol
I humbly withdraw my disagreement.
monicat,
o.k. ya got me.i dont have the greatest of grammer. bu8t my math skills are certainly better than yours lol . bush sr. didnt come into the presidency until 1988....that made me 18...and i was in the military at the time....but you are right, i did come off a little strong and again i apoligize(sp). I have become somewhat opinionated in my older years lol. i do have a tendency to think i know it all and i like to try to spread my so called smarts around at the expense of others. i think i was angry at something else and took it out on you and your opinions.
and you are half right, gays do have a right to raise kids and are capable of showing just as much love if not more than the average straight couple nowadays......but you are only 24 and your child cannot be that old.. my kids are 12, 10, and 4.i live in a predominatly black neighborhood and see the cruelty of kids on the most outrageous of issues....most of all the race issue. having glasses, being chubby, having different hair, or being a different color, it doesnt matter what the issue is if you give kids just one thing you are different about they will attack it with a vengence.
you have not experienced your child coming home from being "picked on" for these slight differences, and crying their brains out, wishing they were dead, wishing they were the same as everyone else, etc. trust me it is not only a heart breaker but very helplessly frustrating from my point of view. and the real frustrating part is that these are kids that they started kindergarten with and were color blind and difference blind in those early years. you know that these children are being taught this kind of hate and it really pisses me off. these innocent children are being corrupted by a bunch of bitter adults.
i know i know you think i am doing the same thing to my kids but you are wrong. on the issue of the bible, my kids are fairly smart and they pick this stuff up from the pastor who speaks from the front of the church. i myself am teetering on disbelief but do not share my concerns with lifes more bogus issues with my kids. i believe they need certain exposure to various issues and then they will make their own decisions on them at a later time, i will never force my opinions on them unless it involves hurting another human being.....then they get an areful. i do not spank my kids, but i am not against it if i feel the offense is serious enough.
and im sorry but i also am calling up others to comment on the society issues of being fear based or respect for others based.
im sorry, i grew up naieve and thinking the best of everyone and have been skrewed over time and time again. this society we live in
is very selfish and the ideas of,
for me to climb to the top in any way, someone else has to fail
is extremely imbedded in to most americans. i hate that. and i wouldnt really get rid of anyone if there wasnt the fear of punishment by jail but i sure would consider doing some things like smoking a joint or ten. fear of jail is what keeps me from stepping outside the boundries of normal society not respect of my fellow man. how is smoking a joint hurting my fellow man?(well other than the killer drug cartels and stuff, but if we didnt have laws they wouldnt be here.)
and children are yes innately innocent, but they are selfishly innocent. their whole exsistence is based on satisfiying(sp) their wants. not the other kids wants...their wants. why do you think one of the main things you are always saying to your kids in the earlier years is "NO". we have to teach them about self control. and this takes years to establish because the inner desire to have ones wants satisfied is very hard to bury.
and on a lighter side...... whats the difference between spaghetti sauce, marinara sauce, and pizza sauce?......arent they all the same thing?... its like the difference between the colors eggshell, beige,light tan, and off white.........
DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME???????????
I agree that bush is a moron just like daddy. [:D]
you guys that think Bush is a moron cant seriously think Gore would have been better!!!!!!!
Simma down now.
The original post said not to talk about polotics...it is also one of the common rules of debate.
So back to spanking
The concept that spanking leads children to become more violent is a relatively new idea to our society because spankings have been a form of correction in children since recorded history. It is known that all wrong actions have negative percussions in one form or another. Negative action=negative reaction. If the negative reaction doesn't affect the one who performed the negative action, then the chances of the negative action reoccurring is likely. Children must be taught this in a loving yet effective way. Aristotle said, "Science comes to men through experience" , so I will be basing my thoughts on experience. The first time I threw my sister's cat off the roof, I was scolded and sent to my room. The second time I did it, I was spanked. After the spanking, I never threw another cat again. All the people I have talked to say that they don't regret being spanked as children. Spanking doesn't ruin a child's relationship with parents (I have a great relation with my parents), and I have never seen any negative side effects from the spankings I (or my friends) received. Violence comes more from feelings of separation, rejection and/or anger. Any form of correction can cause these feelings, so it is illogical to say that spanking is the form of correction that causes violence. A lack of correction encourages further misanthropy. The pain of physical correction is more effective and humane with children since it doesn't cause the feeling of rejection or separation that often follow non-physical correction. Unfortunately many in our society are associating spanking with abuse and they are ignoring non-physical abuse. Verbal abuse seems to be more damaging to a child in the long run though. Any kind of parental discipline or correction not done in love, is a form of abuse.
I've got tons more, and could go on forever but have a hot date I've gotta ready for. [;)] Wish me luck!
he couldnt have done any worse. I mean that literally.
end of conversation on my part. Last thing i want is to get sucked into another argument about gays adopting, bush being a genius etc..
o.k. sorry for the politics.
Did somebody say Bush?
(http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/gw%20bush%20vs%20apes.jpg)
Seriously though I like him. He's a little crazy sometimes but would you want someone else to be on your side in international disputes?
Psypunk...I'd just like to point out that usually when kids get themselves into trouble, it's usually due to a lack of parental supervision. For instance...WHY THE HELL WERE YOU STANDING ON THE ROOF WITH A CAT???? LOL And that's exactly my point..their are many other ways to deal with kids. Yes I realise this may be more time consuming and all...but that's what it takes.
stguru..I appreciate your response and your point of view. I got a really rough time as a kid and I can relate.I also grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood..(???) we were poor and I was in handmedowns..it was really awful. But it wasn't the end of the world (maybe it seemed like it at the time)but I am okay!(oh and I got confused about the yr. bsh sr. was elected..sorry, im an butt! but you still aren't that far ahead of me!)lol
I still stand by all of my points, psypunk..my parents spanked me too and we're fine but just because I'm okay doesn't make it right. Their is another way to live and people need to learn how, it starts with our children. RIGHT ON RIGHT ON!!
OKAY IM DONE...SORRY!
im sorry too.
HA HA!those bush/monkey pictures are funny...
(http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/turb/milk.gif)
Monnicat, you could watch 4 hellians 24 hours a day? (With out locking the kids in cages).
I was an evil kid, and I wasn't even the worste one of my siblings. Spanking soon solved that.
arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind. i think there should be more of it on this forum. friendly, of course but nonetheless fierce. someone bring up something (non-political) that would be contraversial and i will take up the other side of the argument. it doesn't even have to be something you feel strongly about. bring up an argument that you've recently had w/ someone that you've won or lost. preferably one that you've won since you've obviously had the better case. let's have some fun.