LSD and Ap. Reality check

[Fourthdimension]

Ok well i never took any acid before but am thinking about trying some on sunday. Its known as an entheogen which means it helps spitiual growth if not abused. a bit like the shrroms and dope and saliva the indians use to take to heighten there awareness and spiritual selves.

anyways the question am wanting to ask is this:

I have had projections before but there have also been times where i have just been meditation and thought i was ap'ing but was nt. the thing si in these circumstances i can reality check and say hmmmmmmmmmmm the time is correct. hmmmmm i can fly

but if i was to take acid and end up thinking i am projecting how could i do a reality check when am hullcinating.

I might end up thinking i am ap'ing and then jump off a four storey building thinking i can fly lmao

so i am just wondering if anyone can help me with this give me advice or suggestions and any reality checks i could use.

Thank you

[personalreality]

supervision.

[The Present Moment]

Entheogens should always be used with an experienced guide, IMO. Oddly there is very little crossover between the astral and psychedelic communities right now. You'll need to find a forum that deals exclusively with this topic.

[Tiny]

Dear Fourthdimension,

please keep in mind that some psychoactives will loosen and/or eject one's astral body by force which makes one more vulnerable to psychic attack, posession and even body snatching.
However, general anaesthetics given in hospitals are atleast just as worse in this regard.
Sudden personality change after surgery is a well known phenomenon.


kind regards,

Paul

[Fourthdimension]

so disregarding that it is a drug and solely judging on its properties that help or hinder astral projection
do you think it is a good idea?

I also have heard about personality changes and that it is a sighn of possesion and that lsd has this propery

what do you think the chances of this happening are?

Thanks guys

[Stookie]

Whatever you think and plan for will immediately go out the window. You won't be thinking in the same manner you are now. That's the nature of a trip. It can be really really good, or really really bad, or both. It's unpredictable. For a person who is ignorant yet curious about their spirituality, it may spur them in a certain direction (or possibly screw them up). But for someone who has already gained some knowledge and experience, it seems like going backwards to me.

In relation to AP, there is very little. Hallucinogens do not help or make you a better projector. You may experience something non-physical, but I can guarantee you that it is not the same experience. A real deal AP is much more satisfying. I'm not just saying this, it's from personal experience. I had my time back in the day.

[no_leaf_clover]

There's nothing wrong with blurring the lines between being in some grounded state and AP'ing.  It's not like you won't be able to AP as its own experience again later.

There really is no difference between all of this stuff.  It really just is like "phasing" as Frank called it.  All the information is always there for all modes of experiencing reality,  it's just what you are "vibrating" at.

[Stookie]

There really is no difference between all of this stuff.  It really just is like "phasing" as Frank called it.

For myself, there are huge differences. Maybe others get the same thing out of it, but I don't see how.

Differences: Your level of concentration, focus, thinking, ability to stop it at any point, & possible physical dangers.

With LSD you are just along for the ride. With AP you are the pilot, and you don't do it for 10 hours straight.

During most hallucinogenic experiences, your awareness is stretched across multiple dimensions of reality while staying in the physical as well, making the physical highly distorted. During an AP, you move all of your awareness away from the physical and into another dimension. You don't have to worry about getting up and doing something physically stupid during an AP, like cutting yourself. (I knew someone who had done it).

And you don't need a sitter for AP. Hallucinogens are unpredictable. (which is why a sitter is always recommended).

And last but not least, AP is LEGAL. I guess I can't deny that LSD has done some good things or I wouldn't listen to Hendrix. They might be the same in that they both incorporate non-physical reality, but not in the experience or the method.

[Fourthdimension]

Thanks again for the replies.

I agree that mabye it is going backwards if i have some knowledge but i have always saw drugs used moderatly like taken dope mabye once every 3 month and even alcohol to an exstent . i have always saw them as expereincing difrent states of consciousness i know its not the same as mediating and ap'ing but its still an experience and i thought thats why were all here were along for the journey to gain the most experience you can from life before returning back to the whole.

I understand what you mean stookie that there is physucal danger in doing this but theres physical danger with alcohol and physical danger when crossing the road even.

but then again when some one who can handle his beer and knows how to cross a road non of the above drinking nor crossing the road become danger because the user or participater is clever enough to know otherwise

What am basically saying is i could try and keep common sense and realise for the next 10 hours this is a trip.

You see  i dont drink much and i only use cannabis mabye once every good couple of month cause i realise the dangers but this time last year i was just "drawing" theres no other way to describe it like a craving even though i have never had it. i was drawing to take lsd or shrooms this craving thing went on for a good two weeks but through that time i had self control and reminded myself of the dangers and never took it.

Then laast july the same thing happened but i did nt take any.

The same last december

and again now.

am not gullable and i think am rational except for the next staement am about to make.

I feel as if mabye am been pointed subconsiocly or mabye by some thing unseen to me . i feel as if there pointing me towards having a tripping n taking shrooms or acid.

I know this sounds stupid but mabye its cause its an experience i need to experience or mabye its something else.

Its just something that i feel am right about.

a dunno lol

anyways thanks again guys

[CFTraveler]

Or, maybe, you have the makings of a psychological addict, and that's what's driving you.  Be careful.

[Fourthdimension]

whats a psychological addict cft. thanks

[personalreality]

Someone who is naturally prone to addictive tendencies.  Someone who behaves like an addict.  A feeling that a drug will make things better. 

I gotta say, from experience, LSD is not what you think it is.  You'd be better off with mushrooms or Ayhuasca.  LSD is gross.  It doesn't induce alternate realities, you don't see things that aren't there.  Read some of Terrence McKenna's work.  In his experience LSD never got him where he wanted to go, ie experiencing other realities.  It takes massive amounts of very clean LSD and a lot of pot to achieve an altered state similar to AP.  It's just not worth it.  Now, LSD can induce a mystical experience, but I really don't think it will be what you expect. 

If you can find DMT you'll have an experience with aliens, divine beings, alternate realities, etc. etc.  DMT is a chemical that is naturally produced in the brain, pineal gland, the third eye organ.  It's also the active ingredient in Ayhuasca.  Look up a book called "DMT: The Spirit Molecule". 

A note of warning, McKenna tried to evolve his brain with DMT and died of brain cancer.  Not saying the two are definitely related, but....

I wrote about this not long ago.  Using drugs to experience spiritual realities is something that takes reverence, dedication to a path, years of training and a good understanding of those realities sans drugs.  Using drugs is like strapping on a jetpack to fly to the top of a mountain.  Those doing it without drugs take a journey up the mountain, it's hard but they learn the terrain, they get a map of how to get to the top and back.  The person with the jetpack (drugs) is just shooting for the top and hoping they land in this tiny space.  Chances are they will overshoot the mountain top, or even land on a completely different mountain, or maybe crash on the mountain side.  The problem is they have no map to help navigate their way back down and they don't know they topography well enough to plan the trip properly.  If you journey up the mountain first, then flying with a jetpack becomes safer and easier.  But when you go on foot you learn more everytime about the mountain, you strengthen your muscles and make it so that it is much easier for you to navigate that space in the future.

By the way, tripping is a big commitment.  You're dedicating 6-10 hours of your perception to living in a completely different paradigm of reality.  It can be jarring.  ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have an experienced tripper there for supervision, preferably sober.  You're not going to think you can fly and jump off a building, it's not PCP.  But you might "lose yourself" and get freaked out.  In that event, it's good to have someone there to tell you it's ok.....and give you orange juice.  Vitamin C is said to help keep things copacetic.  I used to put mushrooms on a hotdog bun and eat it with a big glass of OJ.

[Fourthdimension]

Thanks personalreality
all the dealers around here dont even know what dmt is lmao
is Ayhuasca a legal thing to drink n stuff?
whats pcp?

i understand what you mean about the mountain metaphor and i dont intend to use it often just thought mabye a one off would be ok and if i get something astral related even better but mostly it was just for the experience.

thanks

[personalreality]

They wouldn't.

This is going to sound weird but it's those freaky smart drug dealers that know what DMT is and where to get it.  Like the theoretical physicist who is also a drug dealer.  Or the metaphysical psychologist type and especially the "spiritually evolved". 

It is a natural chemical that your brain produces.  Some say at the moments when a person's life starts (in the womb) and when they die that there are big bursts of DMT.  Kind of makes Waking Life seem more interesting.  Anyway, it is not legal in the states but it is the principle component in Ayhuasca, a shaman's drink.  That is also not legal in the states unless you have approval for it's use in religious ceremonies.

PCP is Phencyclidine, a dissociative hallucinogen that was originally developed as a surgical anesthetic.  It's a part of a very dangerous group of hallucinogens.  It's bad stuff.  It is the kind of drug that makes people think they can fly and jump off a roof.

TO be honest, I would avoid most of these at all cost.  The only way I would ever recommend tripping would be to do it with a shaman or something so that the context more conducive to what you talk about wanting to do.  That's where you can drink Ayhuasca and have that otherworldly experience.  I fear that many people expect that from LSD and don't get it.

I can't argue with the need to experience and experiment, but caution is necessary. 

[Tiny]

Dear Fourthdimension,

astral beings in the parallel dimension are encouraging one to take drugs (by telepathic suggestion) because some of them weaken one's energy system, allowing them easier access to it.

If you're looking for easy access to DMT it can also be found in various legal plant material such as Mimosa Hostilis and seeds of Anadenanthera Peregrina (Yopo!), letter are especially cheap and legal to obtain. Unfortunately I haven't had any success with (smoking) them but in general they are said to be very potent.


kind regards,

Paul

[kurtykurt42]

astral beings in the parallel dimension are encouraging one to take drugs (by telepathic suggestion) because some of them weaken one's energy system, allowing them easier access to it.

Off hand I can't think of too many drugs that strengthen one's energy system. 

[Fourthdimension]

Thanks for the feed back everyone.

I m sure i have saw that tea on the market somewhere personal relaity. and i know what ou mean about the smart dealer lmao dont think theres too many of thm around here lmao.

to be honest i think getting some of them plants tiny mentioned or getting that tea from the market would be sufficent enough. just something to brew and sit back and relax and i may be wrong but i dont expect that tea to be too potent so mabye i ll just have a light trip if theres such a thing but the things you guys mentioned sound much better than lsd or mushrooms

so i think i ll drop the lsd idea and find those shamanic teas and plants and experiment with them.

this is gonna sound weird becuase no drugs are spiritual so i just hope u all know what i mean when i say that i wanna not do lsd and try them teas instead cause they seem more spirituall than lsd or mabye i just mean i might get a more spiritual ethos from when tripping lol

Tiny can you explain more about telepathic suggestion ad weakening the bodys energy system and why they would want to do that.

kurt if you look at this world in terms that all chemicals and substances that are foreighn to the body are drugs because after all they are foreighn to us and not found in us. so if you look at it like that then there probally is some drugs that strenghth our bodys energy system.

for example how about minral and vitamin tablets

anyway have a good easter guys. happy easter
take care

[Tiny]

Tiny can you explain more about telepathic suggestion ad weakening the bodys energy system and why they would want to do that.

Dear Fourthdimension,

Consider the concept of thought not as an internal but rather an external energy.
The reality appears to be that one's thoughts are not generated within oneself but ultimately roaming the environment and are reflected over and over instead of merely originating and ending within one's own mind. The brain is merely the receiver interpreting thoughts in it's own language and symbolism.
With this in mind one can understand that one who is thinking is actually actively communicating with his environment and in fact also the astral beings roaming it (absorption rate defined by one's attitude and noise-level or intensity of the thought energy present). The difference is that more astral beings are aware of this than humans are...
Humans at large believe that thoughts are only a reflection of their own inner life and this makes them highly susceptible to suggestion-based thoughts coming from astral beings because their egos assume that they are taking to themselves which is simply not the case.

Now, many drugs have a strong tendency to open up the consumer's energy bodies (the drinker finds it easier to talk to other people etc.) which gives parasitical astral beings easier access to the consumer's aura and it can attach itself to a chakra and experience what the consumer experiences. It also allows the astral invader to more easily exert it's will on the consumer. Some astral beings attach themselves to specific drug consumers only for the reason that they themselves, before their death had been addicts and are still addicted to the specific substance. As I said above the astral invader, by attaching itself to a chakra of the consumer whose auric defense systems have already been weakened/opened, experiences the rush/extasy/fun as much as the consumer himself does.
Then there are other parasitic astral beings who only enjoy the fact that the consumer's energy systems have been weakened because it allows them to easier manipulate them. They will then manipulate his thoughts and actions to cause negative outcomes in his life to result in suffering in the victim that in turn releases energy from the victim as water dripping from a squeezed sponge.
Obviously, astral beings who don't reflect love energy (dark beings) are consequently receiving none and are so suffering a continual lack of energy which is why they go to such means as returning to the earth-plane (real-time-zone?) to cause misery and feeding upon the release of energy thru the suffering they are causing. This is a terrible esoteric truth we are facing in this world.

This is my current understanding of some of the esoteric going-ons you asked to know more about and I don't consider myself infallible in my intelligence.


kind regards,

Paul

[Fourthdimension]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for more information on the topic.

So what your saying is that thought is the brain digesting and interpretting the enviroment , entities suggestions , memories and associations eg some people might associate black as evil so they see black and think of evil. as well as other cognitive behaviour which is stated in the opening chapter of the reality matrix.

or do we solely just recieve and interpret the enivroment and entities suggestions in which case does this mean that because no thought begins or ends with us that in turn we do not think only recieve which concludes that we are just physical matter minupulated and manifactured from physical and astral background as well as physcial and astral beings and so we are merely pupets with the incapabillity to think and only capable of thinking,presuming and assuming based on the active suggestions and minipulaton of others

I understand that either way we are been passed suggestions that we then presume is of our own making as you said and thus because of our ignorance we then follow the thoughts or ponder upon it because we think it is our next step or something that is of importance to us which is mabye what i was doing with the acid cravings.

and i understand why and how entities would attach to us and i think mabye i have experience this in the past and so has most people.

mabye when you get sex craving lunatics the sexual equivalent of a sex pest in the astral form may attach to us to recieve sexual energy or pleausre just as you said with the rest of the drugs and drink

and there is no rela cure to this except self discpiline and awareness,

I think the times when i have experienced entities attached to me is the times when i have been through ertain rough patches and i think it sorta manifiests in my dreams as certain symbology and the dreams and sleep dont seem refreshing just baffling and confusing and broken. and remebering the dream in not like remebering a movie but more like remembering bits of a jig saw puzzle lol.

for example i have just been through a certain problem that made everything go crazy for a few weeks but then in the last few days i calmed myself down and said to my self lets look at everything problematically and sort this thing out. and so problem by problem i would fix it. but then i d keep getting these negative suggestions thinking things are still bad theres no solution just leave it and get on with it and ride the wave

and so i would have to find a nice quiete place and calm myself down and filter out these negative thoughts before i could continue been happy and it would just keep reoccuring but now i have everything 99 percent sorted out  and these thoughts just are nt happeneing as much

so mabye these thoughts could have been my own insucrities but it think more likely it was outside influences and now they know there not getting there own way there giving up lol.

another thing during these patches i find it so hard to project no matter how hard i try i just cant project but i been doing some work to get myself at normal standard and think am due a projection anytime soon lol.

which brings me to another thing when ever i am about to project i get a crazy feeling that no matter what am gonna pop out my body like a jack in a box wether i want to or not. mabye this is all so outside influences saying "hey man am gonna help u out tonight so buckle up" lmao

anyways take care paul and thanks

[personalreality]

I have personal experience to support Tiny's statement.

I've been a drug addict for years and years.  It seems that the more detached from yourself a drug makes you the more susceptible you before to outside influence.  For example, pot doesn't dissociate you to much so it would cause less of a problem.  Heroin (my drug of choice) causes intense dissociation in your emotional state and in your level of awareness.  I always joke that heroin addiction taught me detachment.

I always suspected that drugs like heroin hid your soul from you and I recently had a vision that backed that thought up a bit.  When I was detoxing off of Suboxone I was was sleep deprived for days.  About the third night in I was awake but I was starting to "hallucinate" (I don't think it was hallucination, I think it was enhanced third eye activity and a mind tired enough to let the third eye take over perception for a bit).  At some point in the night I looked at my body and suddenly the environment around me went dark but my body didn't move.  As soon as the room went dark I could see a glowing mist of energy around my body and as I looked up a little I realized that there were dozens of little glowing energy tentacles connected to the mist.  I looked up to see where the went but they just seemed to go on forever in the distance.  I could feel something though, I intuitively knew that something was out there and it had attached these tentacles to me years ago.  It had been with me for a long time and I also knew that it wasn't my friend, it wanted my energy.  I didn't feel like the feeling I get when I'm around another person, it felt more like the energy from a power animal.  Like it was the collective representation of a species or something like that.  It felt more like a conscious energy than a finite being.

Since then I've done a lot of energy healing on my own and had professionals work on me and I can feel my energy expanding and becoming lighter.  I had a medium read my energy and she said she could feel them, and I didn't tell her about the tentacles.
Pretty freaky.

[Tiny]

There's a story about a group of Ice (meth) smokers.
Apparently it has tendencies to align with a low astral frequency. They open a "hypercube" through which entities stream into the room. One attaches tentacles to one of the users, paralyzes (possesses one or more of his chakras) and telapathically tells him that it's going to control him and make him kill his friends.

You can read the story here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52802


kind regards,

Paul