Quote
Mastering Astral Projection is the best guide there is. Its perfect for training as it focuses on only one thing, and that is to teach you how to have that first OBE, using a step by step achievable method. Read more about this book on the following link to my library.
Mr Bruce I find that an arrogant statement ( how do you know you've written the best book together with that other writer ? ) You seem very full of yourself, like you really think you know whats the best way to do projection. Has the idea ever crossed your mind that their may be other techniques than your own that may work better for some people ?
(a must read : D. Scott Rogo's "Leaving The body" a very cool book with 8 different techniques that are compared, evaluated, discussed and tried )
Also, you claim your NEW energy system works better then methods that have been around for thousands of years. (in your books ) You also claimed you developed it without studying those methods.... and that your way is better. HHHMPF !
I'm starting to think this whole forum is a way for you to boost your book sales.... I even wonder for how long this post is going to be here before it gets deleted.
Am i being to negative ?
Yes you are.
Also where does Robert Bruce actually say this himself or Brian Mercer for that matter?
Quote
Mastering Astral Projection is the best guide there is. Its perfect for training as it focuses on only one thing, and that is to teach you how to have that first OBE, using a step by step achievable method. Read more about this book on the following link to my library.
Also as regards the NEW system, I don't recall where he says it works better than other methods specifically. It's true that for many people it's more accessible especially for beginner's.
I'm pretty sure that Robert has mentioned more than once the NEW can be used to complement and enhance other practices. In my case it's allowed me to more fully understand the practice of Iron Shirt chi kung.
I feel personally that you are attempting to be somewhat provocative rather than productive which is rather arrogant in it's own right.
"I'm starting to think this whole forum is a way for you to boost your book sales"
What a joke. Nobody writes OBE books for sales - they only have a very small "target audience". If an OBE book sells some 1000 copies around the globe, that's already a very successful one.
Do you really expect an author to suggest going and getting someone else's books? If not, and it would be reasonable not to, then why not praise one's own books to get people to buy them?
"Do you really expect an author to suggest going and getting someone else's books? "
Well, actually Robert and Brian do just that - MAP contains a large "Supplementary Reading List".
Quote from: JoeriiQuote
Mastering Astral Projection is the best guide there is. Its perfect for training as it focuses on only one thing, and that is to teach you how to have that first OBE, using a step by step achievable method. Read more about this book on the following link to my library.
Mr Bruce I find that an arrogant statement ( how do you know you've written the best book together with that other writer ? )
If you have doubts you can always read all reader reviews at amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738704679/ref=nosim/secretarea7cyber) :roll:
QuoteThe Best Astral Projection Manual I've Seen
QuoteGREAT!
QuoteA must buy book on OOBE.
QuoteTHE Definitive Work On Astral Projection!
QuoteThe Best How-to OBE Course Out There!
QuoteGreat information on OBE techniques
Joerii,
I don't think you are being too negative. I agree that NEW is not the best, and while I have a lot that I could say on this matter, and a lot of other subjects to fully disagree with Bruce on, I am only going to present a brief argument about NEW here today, because people here are far too defensive of Robert Bruce. To the people who are, notice that I am disagreeing respectfully. This is not an insult.
This will be my first and last post on this forum.
Note, if you look in Bruce's online NEW guide, you will see that he says specifically, that he believes, "and intends to show that NEW is the most powerful energy developement system in the world today" (or something very similar). I know because this has stuck in my mind because I think that it is definitely wrong. I would be interested to hear what other programs Bruce has tried that worked less.
Because I was injured and could not do qi gong, I tried NEW for a period of several months, it did not work well for me, or at least not NEARLY as well as some other things I have done. I am sure that when it is used as a system on its' own, it is not going to be the best thing for many people. While I can think of several potential problems with NEW, one thing that I feel is important to note is that, I really feel that it is not "new" at all. Practitioners of methods such as qi gong, which have basically been around for thousands of years thanks to Buddhist Monks use very similar energy movement actions while standing in certain postures. In moving postures, qi gong practicioners might do things like imagining that their hands are brushing on blades of grass, and in NEW people imagine the feel of a paintbrush. It is really the same thing. In qi gong you might spiral energy up you legs, move it around your spine or simply move it to chakras if you wished to stimulate them, and in NEW you would move energy up your legs or to chakras with imaginary "awareness hands". These methods simply do not have the same terminology as NEW. In qi gong you just move it. If NEW was the best thing available, then qi gong postures would have dissapeared whenever qi masters started to implement such similar techniques so long ago.
See ya
Thank you Blake. Well, seems my post has caused some bad vibes, so it seems, i will have to do some explaining. Before i continue, i didn't mean to insult anybody. I love this forum, there are a lot of people on it with very interesting stories to tell, and there are some cool discussions going. I am however, allergic to self proclaimed guru's with over sized ego's, and i feel Robert Bruce is a textbook case.
Karnautrahl asks " Also where does Robert Bruce actually say this himself or Brian Mercer for that matter? "
Right here http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14813&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=20
Also, when i read all those questions and answers, i noticed that most people who ask questions also give compliments on his book, his wisdom and his site. Nothing wrong with that off course! However.... mister Bruce NEVER thanks everybody for a compliment. Why not ? Because he KNOWS he's the best.
In my part of the world, thats a really nasty personal trait. I believe it's less of a problem in the USA, but again, I'm only speaking for my self here.
Karnautrahl also says " I don't recall where he says it works better than other methods specifically "
Karnautrahl, your bad memory is no excuse. Or didn't you read his book, Astral Dynamics, at all ? It has an entire page on how great NEW is. Page 106, first sentence
" ... NEW is the most advanced bioenergetic manipulation and development system in the world"
On the same page he also claims that NEW doesn't take years to learn, as he implies traditional systems do. ( sounds like a commercial on TV huh ? But wait, thats not all !! Order now and get an OBE totally free, within two months ! ) All over the book he claims to have found alternative good working methods based on a lot of theories that sound really cool but are... well. Crap. Example :
" Lets face it, 99% of people can't visualize for peanuts. "
The book is filled with statements like that. Where the heck did he get those numbers ?
NOWHERE it his book does he back up statements like that with good, scientific data or at least some kind of semi-official research. Most of his book is built on a rotten foundation, quicksand even. It was a good read, i enjoyed it . But any critical reader must agree with me that it's more entertaining than educational. **cough cough mind-split cough **
Imagine somebody would write a book claiming to have found a new way of looking at , for example, astrology. He would start of by explaining to have found a new vision on how the planets affect our lives. He never studied astrology, but he observed the sky for years and very closely analyzed how he and others around him where influenced. He discovered that there are actually a couple more zodiacal signs ( with very cool names like the NEW sign ) and some before unknown ways making horoscopes that where faster to learn, more accurate and much hipper sounding, with a lot of abbreviations. Horoscope Dynamics, by Robert Bruce. ( i want 10 % off those royalties, Bruce !)
Karnautrahl finally says : "
I feel personally that you are attempting to be somewhat provocative rather than productive which is rather arrogant in it's own right. "
I think provocation can be productive. I don't think I'm arrogant, just critical. I notice how there is VERY few critical sounds on this forum. Maybe because a lot of people know deep down that it's all a show and they don't want to ruin that.... Am i arrogant for believing it is my duty as a freethinking Dutchman to pound some sense into you guys? Very likely so. Does it change anything about RB ( the very fact everybody abbreviates his name like he is a phenomenon instead of a person... makes me itch ) or his work? no.
Pennywise is so naive as to think that there are few books being sold on Astral Projection, and he probably thinks it's some kind of Charity for the community to publish a book on the subject. Dude, dozens of books have been written , i have two shelves off them in study room. Some of them where very successful and authors made lots of money. ( Monroe's books for example ! )
Paker7 :
" If you have doubts you can always read all reader reviews at amazon.com Rolling Eyes "
Paker7.... sigh. How nice to see you know where to find reliable sources. Do you see a lot of negative reviews on amazon ? Why do you think this is ? Be careful, you'll have to do some actual thinking to solve that puzzle !
I do apologize for my sarcastic tone, but thats just my style.
Maybe it's to late to add, but I'm not a troll, just a skeptic. I welcome good discussion... peace, Joerii
Well, his techniques certainly work for me, matey. Thanks to NEW I was able to cure myself of a nasty injury that conventional medicine couldn't. And while I've never had a conscious projection, Robert Bruce's techniques have brought me MUCH closer to one than anybody else's. I've also had the pleasure of communicating privately with him on a number of occasions and found him to be nothing less than polite and pleasant, not to mention extremely helpful.
You say that he doesn't even acknowledge compliments...have you seen the sheer volume that he receives? If he said thanks for each one he would spend all day every day doing little else.
You may claim that you're simply trying to promote critical discussion, but in my opinion you could have gone about it in a much better way. Don't be afraid to talk at length about alternatives; we're all pretty open-minded people or else we wouldn't be here in the first place. But please stop being so provocative, it won't win you any friends or respect.
Personally, if I'd found alternatives to NEW which worked better, I would have started a thread about them and pointed out, in an objective fashion, why they work better and I would have asked others to give them a try and post some feedback.
Oh, one last thing - if Robert were trying to simply make some cash out of people, I don't think he'd have posted so much free information on his website. Robert himself has said that his completely free treatise on OBE is all you really need to get out of body.
Quote from: JoeriiPaker7 :
" If you have doubts you can always read all reader reviews at amazon.com Rolling Eyes "
Paker7.... sigh. How nice to see you know where to find reliable sources. Do you see a lot of negative reviews on amazon ?
Yes ! :lol:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005WA3I
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0877283214
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893750019
Quote from: JoeriiBe careful, you'll have to do some actual thinking to solve that puzzle !
Hahahaha !
Quote from: JoeriiI do apologize for my sarcastic tone, but thats just my style.
No problem 8) :wink:
Quote from: JoeriiMaybe it's to late to add, but I'm not a troll
Are You sure ? :roll: :o :shock: :wink:
Quote from: JoeriiI welcome good discussion... peace, Joerii
Peace and love to You my brother/sister ! :)
Hey all...
I must say that I've done my share of Robert Bruce bashing- mostly because at the time I had a huge ego I was working with myself. I'm sure I've toned it down some, but I'm still working on it I say.
Based upon my research, NEW is not the best system in the world by far, and it doesn't produce the best results by far. What it is to me is a very accessible system, as someone earlier said. It would have been more accurate and more honorable for him to say it is a very basic, simple, and accessible system. To say it is the most advanced in the world is simply a very, very great over-exaggeration, that is very unaccptable in terms of accuracy and honesty, I say and have found.
I have read a post of Robert's in which he has to refer the poster to pranic sources to learn about the rear chakras for instance, and because as Robert said, he doesn't know much about them. Doesn't sound like the makings of one to have developed the most advanced system in the world...
Poster:
2. Using your NEW system for many years now, i have found many chakras in my back that where almost as strong as the front major ones. What can you tell us about them ? Do they have some specific utility ?
Robert Bruce
2.) Yes, there are rear major chakras, and one on each side. Imagine a major chakra as a cross, with large front and rear vortexes, and slightly smaller ones on left and right. I don't know a great deal about the rear chakras. You will find information on these in good books on pranic healing and similar.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14815
Something the most advanced in the would would definitely be the last stop. And you can get into Barbara Brennan, Mantak Chia, and others with break-downs of the nonphysical bodies that dwarf NEW.
On the good side, the more experience I gain with OBE, I see more things that he is on point about in Astral Dynamics. He says it's based so much on his own experience that he seems to over-shadow the fact that much of Astral Dynamics is a co-creation, with much help from volunteers and what he learned from those he helped around the world all those years online. I see several statements in there that seem more like something garnered from several others, rather than something experienced. Yet it is still there and very informative.
Stuff like the preparations and information given for strong 'exit' sensations would have been enough for the price of the book many times over had I had the book before I stopped practicing OBE for a while, because I had strong cob-web sensations from trance, to the point that it felt like ants were crawling all over me, something he states specifically in the book. Even though he stated it from another's experience, it was still on point. Many things I find in the book are on point, and some I am only learning are as I gain more experience.
The mind-split... I have my own 'theories' about how all that works, based upon my experience. I have had experiences that work to validate that theory though, as well as running across several case histories that do also. Mind-split may not explain it all, but it opens up some aspects of projection that are definitely going on.
All in all I see Robert Bruce as someone with self-esteem/self-worth issues, trying to compensate by external aggrandizement of self. I was there myself. I see the tongue-twisting phrases in his book as testament to that. The highest beings I know of say the most profound things in the words of a child. Those who are the most self-conscious must use big words to try to look intelligent, to try to compensate for their feelings of lack. I remember Robert Bruce saying in an interview he didn't make it past the 8th grade and had to teach himself English and such, something of this nature. And I've lived with someone with self-esteem problems, and I see many of the same traits.
I love him, for he exists as we all do. And I haven't read the Mastering AP book yet and don't intend to, but I am finding much worth in Astral Dynamics, though sometimes it is a chore going through some of the statements that at least seem very ego driven. I do think the money has overcome him- the money and the fame. I remember the days when he boasted of charging no money for his services, as that would be 'like charging his children for him to love them' he said. Now it's over a thousand dollars to attend a seminar of his for his teaching services. My how things change.
I have my days of ego and self-aggrandizement. I HOPE they are over. Thus I love him and hope he opens his eyes farther and lets go of the pretentiousness. But I also acknowledge the obvious knowledge he possesses, and what to me is greatly indicative of much experience and in-depth practice. He's an inspiration.
I guess I can go on with this but I have the inclination to stop here. Take care. Thank you for all the positives Robert Bruce. You're beautiful as you are and don't need to try to make anything more than what it is. NEW to me is a great, simple, basic, and accessible technique, and for one such as myself not so inclined to serious energy work it is great. That's enough for me. It's an energy-work-lazy man's way to energy work. I see NEW more like an energy work hobbyists' system. And the many tips and tricks in your book Astral Dynamics are well worth the price of the book. As I gain experience and practice I develop tips that I later find in the book Astral Dynamics, and vice versa. Several tips that I use now I found in the book, and have used successfully. I'm sure there will be more that I apply and 'discover' and then find in there, and that I find in there and apply.
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/rbruce7.html
http://www.leftfield-psi.net/psi/astral7.html
I would also like to say that I am sure that the tactile techniques were developed from Lobsang Rampa's technique in You Forever. (See above two links) In early versions of his tutorial, Robert Bruce very strongly mentioned Rampa. Now he is just a mention in passing, if at all. Rampa is just a line in the bibliography like the rest. And to think, as he has stated, this technique of Rampa is the technique he first learned to consciously get 'out' with.
The technique Rampa gives in the book You Forever so thoroughly enjoyed by Robert Bruce is basically point-shift. Take Rampa's technique and make it sound more complicated and hip, and wha la, you have point-shift. And it's just a small step from there to Rope, and the others... including tactile NEW. But Mantak Chia and others have systems thousands of years old that have been using the mind to move chi, including the internal martial arts that have 'bounce' and other things. I've experimented with several systems. They just word it differently, and often apply it more formally. NEW/Robert Bruce popularizes a casualness and recklessness to energy working that's refreshing- but that again, is not new.
I went on a bit more, but I'm sure it's worth it. Peace.
Cezyl
Paker, you're a sweet guy :)
And you guys keep on worshipping Guru Brucurama. Some people are wired like that i guess. Remember, NEVER broaden your horizon !!
My biggest problem when reading new material is my tendency to automatically categorize it. Either it is just more of the same stuff I have already read (which means I will ignore it) or it is too different than what I'm used to (so I will ignore it). The only time I get something out of a book is when I can set aside judgment and just trust the author to guide me into an experience. If I read a book where the author says that the contents are just a restatement of a few of the things which are already in circulation and that it is far from being the best or the most complete, I'm probably not going to allow myself to get anything at all from what I read.
Great post Cezyl ! We seem to think the same, but you control the english language better so you can use more subtlety :-)
Quote from: JoeriiPaker, you're a sweet guy :)
And you guys keep on worshipping Guru Brucurama. Some people are wired like that i guess. Remember, NEVER broaden your horizon !!
Oh well, that post of mine was wasted after all. You're a troll.
Quote from: JoeriiGreat post Cezyl ! We seem to think the same, but you control the english language better so you can use more subtlety :-)
Glad I can help. Thanks for starting the thread...
Cezyl
Major Tom, what do you mean, pick a fight with local celebrities ? What do you mean, they left, for all i know, most of them all still here. Not that i care to much about celebrities though ( ** turns on news to see if all the dutch celebrities left **)
I wasn't picking a fight, if thats what you mean. Just venting some irritation, and disappointment about Robert Bruces books that I ordered over the 'net and payed a lot of postage for.
Where you Dutch in a former life ? Coool !!! Where did you live ?
Quote from: Huwie
Oh well, that post of mine was wasted after all. You're a troll.
Haha that post was definitely wasted, but not because off me. Because it sucked, had no valuable content whatsoever and YOU are a pathetic loser, thats why.
Now, thats something a troll would say, right ?
Not me, however. I say :
Huwie, your post was not wasted. I am happy NEW did work for you, and it proves that it's a good and very helpful thing to become aware of your body's energy, and how to harness it's powers. I hope you continue your studies, and that you use your newfound knowledge, and become enthusiastic enough, to research some REAL energy work, like Yoga, Tai Chi or Chi Gong. There are so many good books to read on the subject. Do yourself a favor and read some.