the creator, as in the wachowski brothers?
Yes I think that was the name
Doesn't sound like it really fits the profile of either of these two. They're like big kids - Anime / Manga junkies that had a great idea of turning some Manga concepts into a movie. The Matrix basically started out as a comic these two came up with. If you think The Matrix is out there in terms existentialism, you should see some of the Sci-Fi Manga stuff that comes out of Japan - totally BENT!
They've become one of the most highly acclaimed movie writers in Hollywood at the moment. When leading SFX, stunt, and other type of movie people were asked to help make Reloaded and Revolutions, they all all jumped at the chance without question.
Not that I claim any kind of personal knowledge of these guys, but isn't it just all too typical of the media to try and drag some successful figure like one of the Wachowski's down into the mud?
As to the teachings of The Matrix - its Sci-Fi, and its damn good entertainment! It's a great story because it has so many different levels, but that's all it is - as story, fiction. Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?
Down with the gutter-press tabloids and corrupt media barons! [}:)]
James.
James S Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?
I'm not saying it is reality, but can you prove its not?
I thought the Matrix made an accurate analogy of us being 'trapped' in physical reality. We think we're running around but we're just sitting in our little pod creating all of this with our conciousness.
Except, getting out of the matrix, would be like the realization that there is more than just the physical. (as opposed to the movies waking up in a different physical world)
-not sure if that made any sense...
Just a movie man, meant to entertain. Don't go changing your life because of it.
If this reality really is in a matrix (unlikely), then it is most likely that astral is part of the program because astral is directly accessible to us here and I dont think the programmer of the matrix would intentionally give us access to the inner workings of the matrix. There might not really be an astral outside the matrix, if we're in a matrix.
You guys can't be serious. You're actually considering the fact that the matrix MIGHT be real just because it's such a great movie? Reality check... just special effects and actors written by a couple of guys.
quote:
Originally posted by beavis
James S Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?
I'm not saying it is reality, but can you prove its not?
If it was reality, the whole series would be be crap.[:(]
If it was reality, dudes in shades would have blasted the wachowski brothers years ago. Curb your enthusiasm, it's no more than a kickass movie.
quote:
Originally posted by lostprophet
If it was reality, dudes in shades would have blasted the wachowski brothers years ago. Curb your enthusiasm, it's no more than a kickass movie.
I sincerely doubt that the matrix is reality. However I also doubt that if it were real that dudes in shades would have blasted the Wachowski Brothers years ago. What better way to make the percentage of the population think that something is just a story than making it into a huge movie? Sure there would be a few that thought it was real but try to tell anyone and they would more than likely account it as a paranoid dellusion brought on by the movie.
zz
Aas
I remember when most movies made had meaning behind them and I feel that the Matrix is no different. Matrix got alot of people thinking outside of what they do everyday and question the world around them. As people have said, a great analogy of The Matrix would be the astral. We only think that this world around us is all that exists, but if you open up to other things then you wake up to the truth that there is something else out there.
So people are saying we cant be in a Matrix because its actually just a movie with special effects and actors *interesting*.
Think of it this way - perhaps the making of the movie is a part of the systems control, designed to make us humans think it is perposterous that we're in a matrix because its just a film and cant be real. If that is the case then that method of control seems to be working with many of you in this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
Just a movie man, meant to entertain. Don't go changing your life because of it.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!!
To be blunt, I've got better things to do with my time than to work out whether or not we live in a "matrix" like situation, be it analogous to the astral / physical setup or not.
Whether it might be real or not is of no relevance to my day to day life.
Like it or not, this is the world I live in. This is the world I wake up to each morning and eat, breathe, live, play and work in. I've sampled the other side, the astral, but I don't live there. I don't get paid to work there. One day I might be there permanently, but until then this reality will have to make do.
For me, making do in this reality fortunately involves enjoying ENTERTAINMENT like The Matrix and other sci-fi's without having to think about if it's real or not. Unfortunately it also involves listening to the media while they try and hang sh*t on people who are clever enough to come up with such good storylines, and try to read to much into the whole existentialism of their movies and what kind of lifestyles or beliefs such writers might have.
To be even more blunt - to those who really want to believe The Matrix might be real - GET A LIFE. ITS JUST A MOVIE!
My 2 cents worth....plus another 2 cents for the last comment. [:)]
James.
Holy excrement you're right! Last night morpheus called me and told me that I need to stop pretending it's just a movie and open my eyes. How could I have been so blind? The truth was right there in front of me in movie form and I thought it was just for entertainment value. I didn't see that they were really trying to warn us of the bondage that we are all under by the machines. Now I clearly see that the matrix has me!
TheAlphaOmega You guys can't be serious. You're actually considering the fact that the matrix MIGHT be real just because it's such a great movie? Reality check... just special effects and actors written by a couple of guys.
No. I'm considering that it could be real because I cant think of any reason it cant be real.
James S To be blunt, I've got better things to do with my time than to work out whether or not we live in a "matrix" like situation, be it analogous to the astral / physical setup or not.
Whether it might be real or not is of no relevance to my day to day life.
Like it or not, this is the world I live in. This is the world I wake up to each morning and eat, breathe, live, play and work in. I've sampled the other side, the astral, but I don't live there. I don't get paid to work there. One day I might be there permanently, but until then this reality will have to make do.
We all have a choice to live here or in astral right now, but most people are scared to move to astral before they are forced to. It is useful to know if we are in a matrix or other things that dont affect our daily reality because we might learn it is advantageous to leave now.
quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
Holy excrement you're right! Last night morpheus called me and told me that I need to stop pretending it's just a movie and open my eyes. How could I have been so blind? The truth was right there in front of me in movie form and I thought it was just for entertainment value. I didn't see that they were really trying to warn us of the bondage that we are all under by the machines. Now I clearly see that the matrix has me!
You're not too good at understanding what people say are you, you must skim through posts without taking them in - might I add your sarcasm needs a bit of work, it makes you look like a prick. I said the movie might be a method of control, a way to make us think us being in a matrix right now is stupid - I didnt say it was morpheus trying to warn us we're in a matrix (thats not a method of control is it!).
Who said we're in a machine world matrix, I didnt say that - we could be getting used as food by higher dimensional beings and this physical world of hell is our prison.
If you cant even consider it a possibility you're not a very open minded enlightened individual are you.
If you cant even consider it a possibility then you're trapped in your own little ignorant matrix.
Well, the Wachowski brothers - from the interviews I have seen on them - are seekers who would fit right in in a place like this. They have obviously put a lot of thought into the movie - not necessarily saying its real, but I think its meant to highlight a number of philosophical points (a metaphor....or even parable!) eg how do you know your perception is reality, then you dont; and so the only thing you can really Know is "I AM". Does it then really matter whats "real" and what is "not" as perception defines YOUR reality? A bomb goes off, I close my eyes, what difference?
As Beavis well put it - it might not be real, but that aint the point, the point is whether you can prove it to be true or not. How do you know that everyone you meet on the streets in real life are not just fleshy robots and you are the only real human? When it comes right down to it, the heart with its love and care for our fellow humans is the ONLY thing that has to power to hold us in the physical. If thats broken then life loses a lot of its meaning.
Well, if I hadn't have already thought all these thoughts before, the matrix could have really made me think [;)]
An interesting titbit - they made some of the actors read 3 books before they even looked at the script. Just had a mosey around and think the books were Kevin Kelly's Out of Control, Jean Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation, and another (something to do with evolutionaryness I think [:)]). The brothers are exceedingly well read, very intelligent, and etc.
So, damn good entertainment it certainly is, but that doesn't stop it from having depth and insight to it should you care to have a look......and some great quotes in it which could be applied to the world we live in, if you really wanted to!
Rob
It is said that art imitates life. However . . . how about life imitating art? That happens too . . . just think of all the inventions since Star Trek.
If a powerful movie can tranform the minds of enough people, these people will create a consensus reality and behave AS IF these ideas were real . . . and eventually for them it WILL be real. So-called reality will shape itself to conform to their beliefs. Magic is funny that way.
This is why, I believe movie makers should be mindful of what they create, since movies are so powerful, and reach so many people. In a sense, they are modern magic-workers. But would they listen to me? NAH.
Nope, can't consider it a possibility.
Just to clarify, I didn't say it might be real. I meant it was a good analogy, everyone is walking around in the physical thinking that it is all that is. When there is a whole other world behind it all (astral/higher dimensions not like the movie).
Whenever I see someone obsessed with materialism I usually have the thought that they're stuck in the matrix.
TheAlphaOmega, why isnt it possible?
Can machines never be intelligent?
Do you think brains are invulnerable to implanted technology?
The Matrix teaches you to ask questions.
(That is a Good Thing.)
quote:
Originally posted by beavis
We all have a choice to live here or in astral right now, but most people are scared to move to astral before they are forced to. It is useful to know if we are in a matrix or other things that dont affect our daily reality because we might learn it is advantageous to leave now.
Please explain?
Just exactly how is one supposed to choose to make a permanent shift out of this physical existance? I mean realistically, without deliberately offing yourself?
Scared? No. Don't know how!
I'm aware of the astral as I have visited it on rare occasions. I concede that at some level a "Matrix" like situation could exist as I certainly don't really know how the "real" universe around might be constructed. What I don't see how I have a choice right now to live in any other form than within the physical vehicle that is my body.
I do not have the power of ascension. I'm not interested in wasting my physical life away on hallucinogens or other drugs that can keep me constantly tripping. I'm sure as hell not inclined to suicide as I have a wife that I love, a nice house, and generally a life here that I enjoy. Basically, with the exception of the few visits to the astral, I'm stuck in this form and I don't dislike it.
Movies like the Matrix are thought provoking, but then so are many sci-fi/fantasy books I read. Yet they still fall into the realm of entertainment & escapism. Good fun, something to dream about, can open you up to new thoughts and ideas, but nothing serious.
True it may be that nothing is impossible, under the right circumstances, but what is practical? To me, dwelling on the possibilities that The Matrix might be true is not practical. Enjoying the life I have here and now is.
As to the the original point of this topic, it's interesting that some tabloid has dredged up the info that Mustardseed came across, particularly as the Wachowski's have kept themselves out of the media spotlight. Maybey that's why someones made up some dirt on them. A snubbed interviewer seeking payback perhaps?
Regards,
James.
as
James S, the option to leave requires suicide. I said most people are scared, and you just made yourself an example of that. You choose to stay here. That is the reason you are not in astral right now. IF I found that due to the laws of this reality my energy capacity decreases permanently every day I'm here, I would leave. There are lots of possible reasons to leave. Maybe I'll find out there is something more important I should do on the other side of the universe.
There may be reasons to leave, but I can think of a lot more reasons to stay.
I had a feeling that's what you had in mind Beavis. I have to disagree with you here. Leaving by way of suicide I do not consider to be an option.
Being scared to suicide? I find that to be a ridiculous idea.
It's not an option! It's not even something to be scared of. It's something done by people who are scared of facing this world, who feel they are unable to cope with living in this reality. A permanent solution to temporary problems.
The more I come to learn about the alternate realities around us, the more I come to cherish this life that I have in this one because it means more to me now. There's more to it than I had previously considered. I don't fear death at all - it's just the next stage in my journey, but trying to jump the queue and get there early to me would be a step backwards, not forwards.
James.
I don't think that the matrix is real. I know what you mean when you say that people walk around in a dream world, I think that is true. When we die it will be an awakening of sorts, and we will see the truth for what it really is. I don't however think we are under the control of machines that we created that ended up turning on us. The movies are awsome though, and I just saw "Revolutions". Thought it was the best one yet!
It might be possible that a matrix like situation exists, but I choose to believe it doesn't. If I choose to believe it does, what difference would it make to my life? There's no conceivable way you could get out anyway.
Inguma - Thanks for that little titbit of info. Simulacra and Simulation gets a short cameo during the first movie when he's in his bedroom, I spotted that and I've been wondering what the reference was.
Beavis - Are you serious about the suicide thing are were you just saying it was an option? I don't think suicide is a good idea.
I don't think suicide would be a way to escape permanently to the astral. Commiting suice I'm pretty sure would keep you caught in the birth/death cycle.
James S There may be reasons to leave, but I can think of a lot more reasons to stay.
I agree, for my specific situation, but not in general. Thats why I'm still here.
It's something done by people who are scared of facing this world, who feel they are unable to cope with living in this reality.
This is faulty logic. People do X to avoid Y because they are scared of Y. We dont have to want to do Y (live on earth)!
The more I come to learn about the alternate realities around us, the more I come to cherish this life
Everybody doesnt have to think like you. The more I learn about those realities, the less value this life appears to have. Before, it was the only life, but now I know it is only a small fraction of the total.
lostprophet Beavis - Are you serious about the suicide thing are were you just saying it was an option?
I am serious when I say it is an option, but I am not planning to do it.
TheSeeker, I could avoid reincarnation by choosing not to incarnate again, which I have already chosen.
Hi Beavis,
Good argument![:)]
> "This is faulty logic. People do X to avoid Y because they are scared of Y. We dont have to want to do Y (live on earth)!"
The logic to me seems to apply. People do go out of their way to avoid things, often at a higher cost than if they accept those things. Its the difference between choosing because you have a choice, and forcing a choice because your afraid of the alternative.
Perhaps it's more that my thought processes don't accept the idea of suicide as a choice that can be freely made, not because of fear, but because my brain's just not wired that way. To me its more of a black and white thing, with only a few shades of grey.
>"Everybody doesnt have to think like you. The more I learn about those realities, the less value this life appears to have. Before, it was the only life, but now I know it is only a small fraction of the total."
Thats true enough. I tend to be an "I'm just along for the ride to see what's here" kind of person, so knowing there's more than one direction I could go in is what makes life interesting. I tend not to "think" about things more than I "feel" them, and I don't feel that there's any benefit in jumping to a different level when I haven't explored this one thoroughly enough yet.
......but then it all comes down to - do we really have a free choice in this? Or do we only THINK we do!
Regards,
James.
James S The logic to me seems to apply. People do go out of their way to avoid things, often at a higher cost than if they accept those things. Its the difference between choosing because you have a choice, and forcing a choice because your afraid of the alternative.
Thats their choice, but my point wasnt that everybody should choose it. It is a better option for some people.
Perhaps it's more that my thought processes don't accept the idea of suicide as a choice that can be freely made, not because of fear, but because my brain's just not wired that way. To me its more of a black and white thing, with only a few shades of grey.
There is no line I wont cross if more good than bad comes from it.
Thats true enough. I tend to be an "I'm just along for the ride to see what's here" kind of person, so knowing there's more than one direction I could go in is what makes life interesting.
Thats why suicide is an option. Its an other direction to go in.
I tend not to "think" about things more than I "feel" them, and I don't feel that there's any benefit in jumping to a different level when I haven't explored this one thoroughly enough yet.
Why read anything from a new book when you havent finished the last page of your current book?
Yes, all things are subject to circumstance. Where I in a hospital bed in extreme pain alive only through constant life support, the choice would be a lot different. But that's where semantics comes in and calls it euthenasia rather than suicide.
>"Why read anything from a new book when you havent finished the last page of your current book?"
Well, you've got me there! I'm a chronic cheater when it comes to books, especially big ones with lots of different storylines. I'll often skip ahead between books just to find out what happens next with a certain character without wading through all the other storylines to get there. Trouble is it doesn't then always make sense.
James.
I guess I give up. If you wanna believe that the Matrix is possible, then who am I to say it isn't. But a couple things for the record. First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care). Second, the reason that the matrix isn't real, is because it's OBVIOUSLY not real. We live in a world where hollywood makes movies... and sometimes those movies make us think. That's all. Come on, screw your head on straight. It's not real because it's a movie. If you can't tell the difference between a hollywood movie and reality then you need psychiatric help. It's that simple. I wish I could type a sentence or something to allow you to realize that it's fake, but I cant, so good luck. As for the concept of the movie, I think it's right on. I do believe that we are living in a dream world and that death is an awakening (as Toro said), and that the truth will be known by all of us eventually, without exceptions. I'm not saying all of you are blind and believe in the Matrix, but some of you definately are. Decide for yourselves, doesn't matter to me. But for those of you that think you can jump off a school building (like 'kids story' ) and wake up in the matrix, you got a hell of a wake up call coming!
TheAlphaOmega If you wanna believe that the Matrix is possible, then who am I to say it isn't.
the matrix isn't real, is because it's OBVIOUSLY not real
Make up your mind.
It's not real because it's a movie
Then there are really no doctors, because movies are made about doctors.
sorry for the spoiler, don't care
How can you be sorry and not care at the same time?
yeah, i read that spoiler on accident [V]
quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care).
Now im ticked! [:(!]
You WILL care! [:(!]
Thanks for pulling that spoiler out of its big block of text and isolating it so we can all be spoiled.
quote:
Well, unless of course you're Buddha.
I am Buddha. You are Buddha. Everybody is Buddha.
(I am not making this up.)
Hi, Buddha. I just saw Buddha in the porn shop.
quote:
Originally posted by beavis
Thanks for pulling that spoiler out of its big block of text and isolating it so we can all be spoiled.
Good point. [8)]
People always want to know the future... except in movies.
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestus
quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care).
Now im ticked! [:(!]
You WILL care! [:(!]
MATRIX SPOILER WARNING:
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Ive just watched the movie and I tell ya
The AlphaOmega you're a little sneak, they dont all get freed, not even close, none have even been freed yet and the architect says only those who want to leave in the future can leave.
I don't want to know the future. Think about how much it sucks when someone tells you what is about to happen in a movie, or tells you how it ends. You don't even want to watch it anymore. I don't want my life spoiled in the same way[;)].
There are other-dimensional beings sapping us of our energy while we sit naïvely in the physical plane. They're the egos. They create an illusion around us, but when we destroy them and realize who we really are we begin to actually wake up and experience things we never thought imaginable. And it's possible to escape the matrix for good à la getting off the wheel of samsara, never needing to be reborn in this dimension again. Even if you go look at the multitudes in the astral who are still 'asleep' in this world, they look like a bunch of mindless zombies.
It's a movie, but it's a profound parable for many different archetypical paths.
-eomaia
Just read today that the creator of the Matrix wanted it to be a picture or allegory of the evolution of the consiousness of man. Sort of a buddhist/hinduist/pagan/gnostic mixture. The article aslo mentioned that he himself seemed to also "evolute" as he recently left his wife of 15 yrs to be the personal slave of a dominatrix, and is publicly starting a career as a crossdresser. It got me to thinking of the old proverb "can men gather figs from a thorn bush" by their fruit ye shall know them. Matrix is very facinating but I somehow wonder what it "teaches". I am not sure but am tempted to believe that what a man creates (like Matrix)is determined by what you are. Show me your life and I will tell you what you believe , sort of thing.
Any thoughts
Regards MS