London police outa control!

[OrionsDream]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/international/24london.html?hp&ex
=1122177600&en=746c0082e3985aa4&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Well well well, the london police shot down a muslim suspected to be attached to suicide bombings, and what?!?! HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!

Londing is turning into a terrorist/fear ran city.

The link got cut off, just copy and paste both 2 lines at the same time, thats the real link.

[Kodemaster]

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[no_leaf_clover]

I knew something sick had taken place as soon as I read the witness account stating the man was pushed to the ground, and then shot five times, while he was subdued(!), and certainly before any legal action. I now see why they're cutting back on guns in the UK: apparently the police there can't even be trusted with them.

[halfphased]

I thought London cops only carried billy clubs...  Perhaps, I was misinformed

[OrionsDream]

Actually yes, only a few of them were trusted with the responsiblity of guns, unlike here in the USA.

I think now they will start to give more out, so if they see some muslim wearing clothes out of season they can shoot them to death.

P.S. the reason they killed the guy was because he was
A) Muslim
B) wearing baggy winter-ish clothes, so the police thought he was concealing a bomb.....

hint to every1: DONT GO TO THE SUBWAY WEARING UNSEASONABLE CLOTHES!!!! YOU MIGHT GET SHOT!

[Hans Solo]

I now see why they're cutting back on guns in the UK: apparently the police there can't even be trusted with them

This is exactly why I fear the government taking away our guns.


Han

[Froglet]

true... but what good are guns when the government has the wrong impression.  I mean this was hopefully simply a misunderstanding.  But you never know.

[OrionsDream]

Of course it was a misunderstanding, but it sends a message to everybody: the london police are out to kill, and you better hope they got 20/20 vision because if they suspect you of anything, they will
1) shoot you at a distance
or
2) chase you down and shoot you at point blank range

[RooJ]

The reason they shot the guy was because firstly.. he came out of a house that was already being watched because of links to terrorism... He was wearing a rather large padded jacket... After following him and asking him to stop (because they saw he was headed for a train) the guy apparently ran.
Now firstly, in a city that was recently bombed, if 3 armed police suspect you of being a suicide bomber and ask you to stop the last thing you want to do is run onto a crowded train.

Of course it was a misunderstanding, but it sends a message to everybody: the london police are out to kill, and you better hope they got 20/20 vision because if they suspect you of anything, they will
1) shoot you at a distance
or
2) chase you down and shoot you at point blank range

Im going to presume you were being sarcastic, but if not i dont think it takes me to point out that your talking out your %&* here. If he had of been a suicide bomber the police would of been criticised for not shooting him just the same. They didnt just shoot him, they asked him to stop... at the point where he was on the train in my opinion they were out of options, if he had a bomb linked to some hand device he could potentially set it off at any time. It was a hard choice, and i really feel for the officer that had to make it, just as i do for the victim and his friends and family.

A very unfortunate set of circumstances i suppose.

>RooJ

[OrionsDream]

Hehe, no offense but after i read your post i knew b4 lookin at location it was United Kingdom.

But yes I was being sarcastic.

My overall point is though that London/England is the next one on the list for cities that will soon be infested with Fear.
If armoured policemen came at me with guns, telling me to 'stop' even though I dont speak their language well, my impulse would be, well to run. I dont like men with guns near me.
Who knows how many more men will b muslim and be wearing baggy clothes?
I dont think he was really processing all that was going on in his brain, a sudden panic attack does that to a person.

I dont think we should like 'attack' the police who did it, but I think holding him down arms out, and shooting him 5 times in the chest was quite quite quite unnessacary.

[no_leaf_clover]

Yeah, they already had him pinned down when they shot him according to witnesses. They could've easily searched him and taken him into custody, but instead elected to put five bullets into his torso and head. It wasn't a very smart decision.

[Jenadots]

And if he had gotten on a train with a bomb and more people died, they would have publically denounced the men who could have stopped him but didn't.

The every day constables do not carry guns.  But they have a sort of special forces snipers -- like a SWAT team -- that are now around the stations with the shoot to kill order which they have been very public about.

The man should have stopped when asked to.  

And unlike in the USA, the Brits don't worry about being politically correct, or profiling, or being sued.  They are worried about their safety and they are very, very serious about it.

[RooJ]

I would have the same opinion no matter were in the world this had taken place.

My overall point is though that London/England is the next one on the list for cities that will soon be infested with Fear.

I dont doubt that, but as the shooting happened just a day after 4 attempted bombings, and only 2 weeks after 4 successful ones i would expect a small amount of fear and suspicion.

If armoured policemen came at me with guns, telling me to 'stop' even though I dont speak their language well, my impulse would be, well to run. I dont like men with guns near me.

Then i feel for you, because no matter where you are in the world if an officer signals to you to stop and put your hands in the air you can expect consequences if you just "run away".

Im going to ignore the baggy clothes statement because its simply stupid .

I dont think he was really processing all that was going on in his brain, a sudden panic attack does that to a person.

It doesnt make any difference what was going through his mind, the police have no way of seeing that. He could of just as easily been running looking for the nearest crowded area to set off a bomb vest. I think it helps to look at every aspect of this, yeah its sad the guy was killed, but if your pursuing a guy that came out of a house watched for links to terrorism, who fails to stop and sprints for the nearest crowded train.. well what would you be thinking?

I dont think we should like 'attack' the police who did it, but I think holding him down arms out, and shooting him 5 times in the chest was quite quite quite unnessacary.

The reason they opened fire was because theres more ways to set off explosives then using your arms to reach to a bomb vest. They can be linked to hand devices etc. Shooting him 5 or 6 times in the head WAS unnessesary, but you often find that whether you shoot someone once or 6 times in the head it tends to have the same outcome for the victim.
I have no doubt the officer who shot him believed at that moment that he was saving his own, his colleagues and the lives of everyone on that train.

>RooJ

PS, I realise re-reading the above that it can come over as somewhat aggressive and its not meant to, so please dont take offence by anything ... just my opinions.

[Gandalf]

btw just to clear up some misconceptions made by the original poster:

The guy was NOT Muslim, he is Brazilian, an electrician who has been working in London for the past three years and has no Muslim or terrorist connections. The reason for the mistake is that he happened to live at a watched address although it turns out it was the other people there who were suspect not him but the police did not realise this.

He emerged from the building in bulky clothing which they mistook for explosives under his jacket.. they fired a shot and he ran... they chased him into a tube station and when he dived into the train itself they expected the worse. that he was going to blow himself up on the train so they emptied five rounds into his head.

This is a terrible mistake and the family of the Brazilian man are going to sue the police for this. I think it is clear that the mistake occured when they opened fire rather than challenging the man when he first came out the building.. opening fire was what caused him to run in the first place!

btw as for the brutal 'five shots in the head' technique, this is an established Israeli tactic.. the London police anti-terrorist squad have recently implemented certain tactics for dealing wqith suspected suicide bombers, which they received when they went to Israel for help/training in dealing with such cases.

The 'five bullets in the head first - ask question later' technique passed from the Israeli authorities gives you some idea of the hard line israeli policy, which has now been passed onto the London police.

It is a problem as you dont want to give suicide bombers any chances.. if you try to verbally stop them or injure them all they have to do is press a button and they takeout everyone... the only policy is shoot to kill but in that case you have to make sure your intelligence is damn hot before hand... that is what went wrong here..

There is no way that the police are revising their current shoot to kill policy however.. that continues to stand.