They showed Michael Jackson's video on Wed I think here in the USA and I caught some of it. It really isn't "the other side" of the story. Basically Bashir said things to Jackson to gain his trust (like saying Michael does a goob job raising his kids and everything). I dunno, I only caught a couple min, but it didn't seem like a tape that totally contradicted Bashir like they advertised it to be. Check it out tho, maybe I missed alot of the good parts...
I think they should just leave the poor guy alone now.
To me it seems he realy DOES love children. It seems like any wrong he has done in the past with children or anything like that, he truly is sorry for, he sees the future in these kids, and showes them love and caring and happiness to make up for all the things he wanted when he was a boy. I really think he is a straight up good guy, even if he does lie about his face. [;)] No one should watch one special on TV about some guy who gained his trust then backstabbed him and say that Micheal is crazy and a freak. If these people were really so just in thinking they are so much better than him they would see that from what that show showed was that Bashir was far worse than Jackson. That's my 2 cent's!
Yeah, Michael Jackson gets enough crap from people. But hey, he's making more than I am. He's obviously making someone happy or they wouldn't buy his albums. I'd switch places with him anyday, and so would a lot of other people, even though they'd probably deny it. I really don't think he did anything to kids either. I saw something on the news once about how kids make stuff up at a really young age. They will say stuff like that someone touched them in their "special" area or something. (why is it so special if we all have one? hehe) So maybe that could have been what happened to Michael, I don't know. It's easy to believe a kid if they say something like that. I know that I wouldn't think twice about it because if it was about a kid's safety I'd probably try to find out the truth and in the meantime keep whoever they said did it away from them.
I think Michael Jackson is a good guy too. He may be weird, but I think his love for children is genuine. I mean look at him, he's basically still a kid himself! Even though thats not normal behavior for a 44 year old, I think people should just leave him alone. Plus you gotta think if the parents put the thoughts that Michael did something to them in their heads so the parents could make some easily millions my suing him...
Greetings everyone,
According to the documentary, Jackson thinks himself of himself as Peter Pan - and if you look at him, that is almost exactly how he has styled himself - as the character Peter Pan from the books and movies. His amusement park and all the rest of it confirms that.
I don't really know much at all about Jackson despite being my era - similar age - Dire Straits, Queen, Roxy Music and other rock was/is more my scene - but my feeling is that the guy is completely harmless and genuine in his general love of kids. I certainly don't think he would ever think of harming a child. He even said "when I look at a childs face I see God". I don't know what was going through his mind when he said that, but he is closer to the truth than he might think.
As with many things, including of non-religious or Spiritual people - the world is full of prejudice, fear and hate of things and people they do not understand, and epitomises one of the main problem with the world today. Materialism, prejudice and dogma are major issues.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Its completely understandable ,though unfortunate that anybody who has contact with kids on a regular basis must be held under a watchfull eye untill they prove themselves trustwortrhy.IMHO Jackson is harmless but i do underatand people having different points of view.What i cant stand to see though is people forming a hasty negative opinion of anyone, or anything for that matter without bothering to look at the subject in question from all angles first.
Parmenion
Greetings,
Unfortunately, many people in the world are judgemental and slaves to creed and dogma. If it doesn't match their indoctrination it is wrong. I respect Jackson for living by his own standards and not by others. I think his biggest problem is the way he antagonises people, like dangling the child over the balcony - he just can't see it it seems. Not appearing at concerts etc. doesn't help his cause either.
I do think he is harmless however, and should be left to live his life.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Of course pedophiles love children.
http://www.nambla1.de/
These people call themselves "boy lovers."
They believe they are the devoted champions of childrens rights.
(Including the "right" of a child to have sex with an adult.)
Their adoration of children approaches religious fervor.
Sweet-smelling Boy God
Who nourishes bees
From the lips of flowers.
Life-giving Boy God ...
When you will whisper
That pollen should be sucked
Like the seed of men
From its silken shaft source.
I think Jackson would feel right at home.
I always though it suspicious that his sleep-over companions were almost exclusivly young boys. You'd always see pictures of him waving from a hotel room balcony with five or six boys. Why does his innocent love of children not extend equally to girls?
Pedophiles love kids in a sick way.. but might as well extend that logic and say anyone who loves kids is a pedophile.
I think its obvious when people say "so and so loves kids" they mean love.. not that they're predatory upon or turned on by them
Do you not say I love kids now because pedophiles say that?
And if MJ thinks he has problems now.. once he starts inviting little girls on these sleep overs you're really gonna see him catch hell. I think though if he wanted to hide the fact he likes little boys he'd put girls there. But many parents dont let their kids have co eds sleep overs even after age 6 or 7.. so i dont see why they'd suddenly let their girls go sleep over at a mans house. there are boyscouts with all guys.. might as well say its because the boyscout leaders want to have sex with them so they dont invite girls.
But your'e right pedophiles love kids.. so if you love kids you must be a pedophile. excrement i better stop saying i love them then.
To add to Silva's point about the media, did anybody hear about that WWF wrestler who recently died in a match? They say McMahon made the wrestlers keep fighting and just told everyone the guy's neck was broken and that he would be ok. It goes to show you how sick corporations have become. That's just downright unspeakably selfish and evil. I hope he goes bankrupt for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian
He even said "when I look at a childs face I see God". I don't know what was going through his mind when he said that, but he is closer to the truth than he might think.
Interesting, Michael Jackson is probably more aware of the truth than you might think. He seems to be rather friendly with two genuine miracle workers, Uri Geller & David Blaine.
MJ doesn't like girls because boys are better than girls. [:P]
Wow, that reminded me of elementary school. [:)]
The reason I don't think he's a pedophile is because of he basically thinks he's still a kid himself. Like Adrian said, he claims to be Peterpan. So it makes sense that kids are the age type that he feels most comfortable with. He does have problems, but I think they're more mental problems accepting his actual age rather than pedophiling (is that a word)? Plus if he was a pedophile, you would think more than 1 case would be charged against him with the amount of children that visit Neverland.
Anyways, I would like to say for the record that I was in the Cub/Boyscouts for a long time and made Life Scout (rank just below Eagle) before quitting. During my time in the scouts, I never once heard of anything like that happening. And I went to many camps where troops all over the country come together and I never once heard of it happening in another troop. I think that it's a rumor that was probably started by some homophobic guy that loves nothing more than making fun of and bashing gay people. I think we all know someone like that. (I'm not saying you're one goingslow, I've heard that rumor many times before after mentioning I was in the Scouts) I'm not saying people in Scouts are gay either. [:D] If anyone WAS gay in my troop, they did a good job keeping it from everyone has yet to go public with it. I quit the Scouts because I was losing interest in it, as well as I didn't quite care for or agree with alot of religious aspects in the Scouts.
-Ethan
Greetings everyone,
Here is a link to the latest in this episode:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/04/leisure.jackson.reut/index.html
With best regards,
Adrian.
"The reason I don't think he's a pedophile is because of he basically thinks he's still a kid himself. Like Adrian said, he claims to be Peterpan."
Okay, I realize now I am not dealing with people who have taken as many psychology classes and done the large amount of reading I have on the topic.
If pedophiles were not stunted emotionally and "frozen in time" so to speak they would not be pedophiles. Pedophilia is sexual immaturity.
Little boys "play doctor" with each other. It is harmless.
*Pedophiles think they are still little boys playing doctor.*
They cannot understand they are doing harm. They're doing the exact same thing they did when they were six. The fact that they have aged, (physically at least) while their partners-of-choice haven't doesn't feel wrong to them in the slightest.
"Boy Lovers" are very often gentle and child like. The NAMBLA website even boasts of this fact. This is why they believe they are being unfairly bullied and picked on.
If Jackson does not fit the cookie-cutter profile of a pedophile, then there are no pedophiles.
Loving children is one thing, but a grown man obsessed with sleeping int he same bed with children who are not related to him- boys specifically- does this not come of as "Catholic Priest" to anyone?
First of all to say all pedophiles feel as if they're kids and being a pedophile is because they are sexually immature. Are you getting these stats off websites? Thats a bunch of crap people are pedophiles for many reasons but to say its because they actually believe they are kids is a bunch of bull. And yes i have read up on them
Im curious leyla have you ever thought a pedophile or a person accused of molesting kids wasn't guilty. Its easy to say "yes" but i would bet money you've never questioned the validity of any accusation in this regard. I find people who are so single minded they're willing to prosecute any person who is even accused very scary. Im just glad you're not a judge.
There have been several false cases I know of. Particulary when there are alligations of "satanic ritual abuse."
I'll have you know, I my donate money, and write encouraging letters to the "West Memphis Three" A group of teenaged boys -one of them on death row- accused of raping and killing three little boys. A backwards red-neck jury falsly convicted them because they wear black cloths and listen to metallica.
If you had read anything on pedphiles you wold know that yes, they are sexualy childlike. (rolls eyes) If you read the NAMBLA website they admit it themselves.
Do you forget that Michaels sister has come out to say that Joe Jackson sexually abused her? It does run in families you know. Most offenders were abused themselves. Or is that another one of my "mistaken facts?"
I have read Jacksons autobiography. Have you? Well let me tell you what he says about women. Female fans terrified him as a child. He was afraid of womens hands especially- hysterical screaming teenaged girls surrounding the car, beating on the windows, crazed female fans, their hands always reaching and grabbing and clutching...
In fact, he wrote the song "she touched me" about Diana Ross because he was moved when she reached across the tabel and gently touched his hand. The experience of a female hand being tender and gentle was new to him.
That alone could have caused him to retreat sexually from women.
goingslow - you're a big hypocrite.
Someone makes an accuzation about pet-co and you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and boycott them.
You don't even suggest that the person might have an ax to grind, or is just targeting petco because they're a big famous company, or that you need more proof than just a website.
Jackson was officially investigated and on his way to court until he paid the people off.
You obviously care more about protecting animals than kids.
Oh how you weep for the poor pets, but turn a cold shoulder to the possability of real human children being victimized.
When it comes to that- you put a mans 'reputation' first.
You're priorities are all backward. The safty of children should always come before reputation.
You put the safty of pets before pet-co's good reputation- why not the same respect and concern for the children?
The problem with the world today is that too many people like you are living in it.
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
goingslow - you're a big hypocrite.
Someone makes an accuzation about pet-co and you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and boycott them.
You don't even suggest that the person might have an ax to grind, or is just targeting petco because they're a big famous company, or that you need more proof than just a website.
Jackson was officially investigated and on his way to court until he paid the people off.
You obviously care more about protecting animals than kids.
Oh how you weep for the poor pets, but turn a cold shoulder to the possability of real human children being victimized.
When it comes to that- you put a mans 'reputation' first.
You're priorities are all backward. The safty of children should always come before reputation.
You put the safty of pets before pet-co's good reputation- why not the same respect and concern for the children?
The problem with the world today is that too many people like you are living in it.
I dont jump on every bandwagon and I need to see evidence. Employees have hard evidence that company is mistreating animals. But even with hard evidence peoples feelings on animals often are "so what they're animals." Thats what i dont agree with. If there's evidence of abuse then it needs to be dealt with and i dont say "they're just animals" If you think you're being spiritually correct in doing that that's fine.
No one would say.. not anyone i know of and not me "if a kid is abused get over it" or the abuser shouldnt pay. That's the difference. But where is the evidence? One family claimed he molested their kid...right before negotiating a price. They walked away millionaires.. Looks like it wasn't that bad afterall.
Bottom line is he didnt rape that kid.. he didnt molest that child.. even the parents dropped the charges. Do you care more about his kids than the parents? Im sure they're enjoying their new house and car MJ bought them.
Where are the alligations of people who are not millionaires? They're not there. why? the other parents have a conscience and dont want to hurt a man or their kids just to extort 25 million.
MJ didnt do it.. if he did i'd be for going at him.
However i dont see why because i think every accused person shouldnt be convicted that somehow means i shouldnt care when animals are abused.
If the proof is there I care.. but MJ didnt rape anyone..
Btw you said it runs in families.. and abused kids abuse. hmm lets lock up all the kids who are abused now.. since according to you they're going to be abusers later.
Sorry just to prove im an activist im not going to jump on every cause to hurt anyone's reputation out of spite and bitterness. But it seems to be working for you.
Have a good one [;)]
Nothing you have said makes any sense.
"Bottom line is he didnt rape that kid.. he didnt molest that child.."
How do you know? Were you there?
My point is- the charges shouldn't have been dropped- it sould have been investigated to the fullest extent of the law.
He should never have been allowed to buy his way out of it.
Please explaine to me the presence of F. Mark Shaffel in Jacksons inner circle.
Mr. Shaffel is a pornographer- specializing in "Barely Legal" gay porn. That's right. Porn depicting young teenaged boys having sex.
Jackson insists on keeping this pornographer as an intermediary in his last two projects, even though people refuse to deal with him.
The first project being an album for charity- several celebrities who were involved dropped out upon hearing Shaffel was going to direct.
Then when Jackson was taking bids on his "footage you never got to see" two networks to pulled out of the deal when they realized Shaffel was Jacksons mediator.
This *gay-teen-porn* director's very presence is costing Jackson money. Yet he keeps him around. Very odd.
Again the parents dropped it.
hes not in jail.. he didnt do it... the charges are dropped. The parents were successful extorting millions.. why are some of you still dwelling on it?
So so far because of the fact latoya said her dad molested her and because jackson associates with a person who makes porn hes a child molester. Again im glad you're not a judge... i guess tito and jermaine should be locked up too since their dad was accused by sicko latoya of molesting her.
[:D]
FAce it the parents dropped the charges they have 25 million and they got what they were after. What part didnt make sense.. why I asked why the parents of all the other kids didnt come up with charges even though they could possibly get millions. Maybe they didnt think its worth it to lie like the first parents did for money.
but they're rich and happy.. and he's still fighting accusations baSED on charges the parents themselves dropped. funny isnt it? [:)][|)][:D]
Im not answering this thread anymore because you ignore any point and just stick to bringing up more people into it. Instead of saying why the parents were so involved in negotiating a price to drop the charges.. (extortion) You're now bringing up a guy who does porn. You said barely legal right? so they're over 18? and suddenly because he's associated with jackson its proof that he molested a kid who's parents have dropped it?
Your bitterness is clouding your ability to use logic. So no use responding anymore. Just hope someone you care about is never accused of doing something they didnt.. then you might see where you're guilty by being accused alone in this case.
[|)][;)]
Well thank gods you've run out of things to say, your ideas were getting weirder and making less sense the more you talked.
Calling poor Latoya a "sicko" for being molested by her dad.
Then suggesting we lock up all incest victims.
You're obviously out of your mind.
Mmmmm....heated discussions......
Goingslow,
I never read your topic about Petco, but I think I can get the jist of it. We have a similar chain of pet retail stores here with a sordid, but not widely known history of mistreatment & neglect of the animals caged up in the shops. Willful mistreatment of any living feeling thing is wrong and should not be ignored or tolerated.
The payoff recieved by the parents who accused Michael Jackson of child molesting, might have been a smoke screen. We don't know if there may have been any threats attached to this payoff. "Here's $25M take it and shut up....or else!" Too many times have we seen that the law goes to the highest bidder.
Leyla,
I take note of your posts. There is something of a personal element in this, yes?
I do agree that wherever the personal rights of another human is in question, money should not be the way around it. Cases of child molesting should always be properly and conclusively investigated, no matter who the suspect is or how much money they have. Pay-offs just pave the way for pedophiles to go on with their sick habits, with no justice for the victims and no treatment for the offenders.
I have spoken out on the subject that M.J. is probably just misunderstood, but the info you've shared about his life and his dealings with others is troubling. Wanting to live a "Peter Pan" lifestyle is no justification for abusing the rights of children, no matter what good intentions he may have. Also having business dealings with a "teen" porn director is way out of line. If M.J. is willing to be known as someone who wishes to deal with such a person, then I think his whole credibility as an "innocent" person has been shot to hell.
My stance on the teen porn director is not a fundamentalist one. Some years ago I got to know as friends two prostitutes, one of them transsexual. I found them to be average everyday people just doing a job like anyone else. Ok, their income is a little better than most, but so much of it gets spent on personal beauty and fitness programs. They knew the "teen" porn scene was rife with the abuse of underage minors, and detested it like any other caring adult would.
James.
If MJ was involving himself business-wise, personal-wise, whatever, with someone involved with adult porn, well, so what! His call. The guy could be a really good director, just in a different market.
The fact that this director he is associating himself with is working in a "teen" porn role, makes it just a little too close to the mark for someone who has been investigated for child molesting.
Personal experiences can make people bitter or biased, but they can also make people more knowledgable and able to identify things that others without that experience can't.
Leyla's past posts do not indicate that she is a person that holds to bitterness about things. I would not wish to criticise the comments of someone who claims a good level of understanding on a subject. At worst, I might question their reasoning behind certain comments, otherwise I could find the intellectual rug pulled out from under me.
James.
Silva,
Sorry if I might have sounded a little peeved in my last post. I don't really care about M.J. one way or another, but Leyla's info prompted me to look into this Mark Shaffel thing a bit, and as mentioned, I've spoken to people who are familiar with the workings of the porn industry, and it ain't pretty.
First of all, search under some of Mark Shaffel's aliases - such as Marc Fredrics, or Fred Schaffel. He's done the lot! Gay porn, straight, teen, you name it! Believe me, I'm not the kind that takes the view of "I read it on the internet so it must be true". I like to make up my own mind about things.
What I think about this matter, IMO, is that Michael Jackson, considering the investigation he has been under, and the bad publicity he has either recieved or generated, really can't afford to be seen as having an ongoing professional relationship with a director that can be linked, wether tentitavely or firmly, with any form of paedophillia, which, as mentioned before is a very unfortunate "behind the scenes" issue with teen porn.
That has to be about one of the longest sentences I've ever written!
I don't consider this issue to be one that should bring about any hostilities in forum members towards other forum members. Parmenion did ask for opinions. Leyla's opinions, from her perspective are just as valid as anyone elses. Yes there is some anger in her comments. This subject may be a bit more personal to her than to others. I don't judge her to be like this in general as I have read some very nice posts from her on other topics, but we all have our axes to grind from time to time.
Just trying to sit in the middle and dodge the bullets.
James.
I am supportive of those falsly accused of child abuse, like the "West Memphis Three," accused of satanic child rape/murder, to whom I send letters and donate money.
I am also aware that in heated child-custody cases false charges crop up, and must be looked at with the raised eyebrow of suspicion. But outside of that, I think the word of children should be taken seriously.
The police interviews I saw from the cops who investigated the case seemed cut and dried to me. They clearly think he did it.
It all seemed to add up. His "peter pan" persona, the fear of women in his auto-biography, the incest that runs in his family, the police testimony, his teen-porn associates.
It's not like I leapt blindly to this conclusion. It seems any reasonable person would be compelled by the evidence.
During the 8 months that Mr Jackson was followed by a camera team he had his own camera team following Them. Monday night at 9:30pm on BBC (uk and ireland) he gives his own side of the story, including footage that was 'edited' by mr Bashir. I think everyone who was so quick to slate Jackson should take the time to listen to the OTHER side of the story.Then , by all means, feel free to form ur own opinions.
Parmenion