My granparents gave and gave to the Catholic church (money and time). But, when they needed some mental and spiritual support of the church it wasn't there. This is circa 1960-1990, but I feel fundamentally the church hasn't changed. My grand mother desperately wanted me to be catholic (my mother is a fallen catholic, married a luthern of all things! but my parents were 100% not religious). I spent a summer in vacation bible school (in which they couldn't answer my questions), as well as innumerable masses on sunday mornings when I spent the weekend with them.
In hindsight, that may have started my metaphysical awakening. Nothing like sitting in an old church during a high mass to get some energy sensations going [;)]
I have had two good friends that were Mormon. They never preeched about it and it didn't come up. I've had many friends that didn't drink, it's never been an issue.
In my part of the country, there aren't a lot of 'cultish' christian style churches. They tend to be in 2 other distinct parts of the country. I'm not so sure it's the religion that's the issue. Most of these people were 'nut jobs' before they joined the cults. The cults are more of a justification for their lunacy?
Chicken and egg question: Which came first, the Cult or the NutJob?
Hi Rastus,
Good points and thx for sharing.
Although is it as simple as delineating this debate to the influence nature or nurture for this issue?
Cheers,
Stephen
My best friend got herself involved in a cult.
The church we'd grown up with had disbanded, due to unsavoury goings-on (which we didn't find out until many years later, because we were both young at the time).
We used to go to a rather gothic nightclub and the "cult" members lured us from there. (In hindsight, this was an inspired concept by them!) Actually, they tried to get us both, but I wasn't completely comfortable with their style of church, so I opted out. It coincided with meeting my husband and moving away from the area too, so in retrospect I was the lucky one!
Unfortunately, not only my best friend, but also both her younger sisters became involved. I lost regular contact with my best friend (due to living elsewhere and getting on with married life) so I wasn't aware of what was happening. My husband and I then moved to Hong Kong for a couple of years and during that period, the "cult" status of the church was exposed to the Press – by my best friend. The leader had abused his control in typical male fashion, suppressing creativity, advising against working outside of the church and generally abusing the females, albeit in a very clever and manipulative way. I don't think I need say more on this point.
It has made her a stronger person for going through it, but I don't know whether she'd do the same, given the choice all over again. In a purely selfish way, it has benefited me enormously. I have the caution and wariness given to me without learning the lesson the hard way.
Sarah
Interesting points. In my own opinion it seems that people generally seem to be manipulated by the press and that the whole cult scare is an artificial and created fear "fad". In my opinion there have always been and will always be religious and political as well as cooperate leaders who have tried to get people to do things their way. Trying to exercise control over the mind and subsequent desisions of others is as old as the ages. In this day however it has taken a life of its own so to speak, and has become a "fear" that preys on the minds of humanity. It is like the fear of childabuse. It is tormenting the minbd of those who yield to it, causing them to trust noone and be suspisious of everyone, including your own family members. It has gained strenght by the false and unsubstantiated notion that "brainwashing" is possible. The very idea of brainwashing a term coined during the Korean war, has been totally debunked by countless psycologists, but still is thought as valid. Waco is a good example. In the name of saving these misguided religious nuts it seems that the American Govm. basically slaughtered scores of innoicent children and adults in the most horrific way.
How about the Astral Pulse is that also a cult. I would say that by the meassuring stick of many hate groups and anti cult type of inmdividuals ,yes. Do we think we are in a cult becourse we post here..no of course not.
Like so many things in our modern society ....fear becomes the motivating force and the world is poorer and more confined as a result, Trust noone, go nowhere at night, check everyone for alteriour motives, spy on your neighbour , report anything suspicious........
Just my opinion. Live in the sunshine, we are all big boys and girls right....let people make up their own mind about what they will believe.
Regards Mustardseed
I see society as one big cult. I grew up free as a breeze and really unaware of society and social stuff. When I noticed it's effect on a couple of my sisters, I began watching it. In the meantime, to my dismay, I think it contributed to my dad's death. Although I did have a little understanding of his personal journey and choices, I can't help but see the different ways he was pulled into the deceptive and detrimental beliefs. I wouldn't have thought he was vulnerable?! But, looking back on his life I remember his disappointments, challenges, and dedication to success as he saw it.As valiant it was, it didn't save his life. As far as my sister's struggles go, I have a feeling their still struggling (spiritually?), but like our dad did, succeeding materialistically. I can only guess, because neither of them want anything to do with me (for different reasons). One of them because I wouldn't cooperate with her childhood memory revisions, although I tried (I hurt her feelings about it at first). The other sister, because she is angry with me for who I am, just me. She may even think I'm a cult in myself. Last time I saw her she questioned my sincerity and intentions. Specifically, what she perceived as a power of persuasion and appearances over her, by me. The irony was at the time she was deep into a controlling relationship with her boyfriend. His spell has long been broken fortunately.Her boyfriend built a lasting wedge between her and her family (me especially). She still hasn't come back from these destructive maneuvers. And I'm the last one she wants to face because she thinks I'm always right (her perception only, but it causes her anger). I would be willing to be wrong, but then I would be guilty of the other complain she has against me," I always do the right thing"(her perception only).She thinks I have an evil influence on our family by "acting" like I'm good. Quite a dilemma! I see cultism as any form of power or influence no matter what the number involved.It doesn't have to be intentional. There has to be volunteers to participate in it.
This is an important subject to speak about. I have wondered about this for a long time. I use to live in a big city and it seemed more confusing and not easy to see. Living in a small city now makes this sort of thing easier to observe. It still is a mystery!
I agree with wisp; society seems like one big cult.
The only cult-like experience I had was when I tried some "free" healing at some Sukyo Mahikari place. Went there, received some sort of healing (I guess); after what several members heavily suggested that I donate some money. The donation was made to some kind of "money god" [|)]. After that, they were all like "Be sure to come back!", "We love you!"... The worst part was that the donations were written down with name and amount!!! Never came back.
I also think that materialistic society is a cult. Unfortunately people are such sheep that they are easily suckered by some group promising them enlightenment or world domination. Speaking of world domination, how much closer to nazi germany will the US be after 4 more years of Bush?
I was a member of a new age community in the late 70's that bordered on being a cult. Unfortunately the place was theocratic rather than democratic, which led to the leadership pretty much following the word of the demiguru. Unfortunately the demiguru got sued for sex harrasment and the community took a big financial hit. People could hang around for a year or so without falling totally into the mindset of the leader, but it soon became apparent that the unwritten rule (along with the written ones of no dogs and no drugs) was no questions!
Although it was a good place to live and a great group of people, except for their weakness for the demiguru, I found it impossible to submit so I moved down the road.
Hello all,
I find it ironic that a lot of cults actually are Christian ones who call themselves "Non-Denominational churches".
We have several local ones, with the most notorious one being MT ZI0N MINISTRIES: www.mzm.org
I've heard tons of horror stories about them, and had my own personal experiences with them:
PERSONAL ACCOUNTS PASSED ONTO ME:
- They ask for not 10% of your income, but 17%, with the extra 7% "going to God", however, if YOU need their assistance, they won't give it to you
- Brainwashing, brainwashing, brainwashing. They have a TV show that shows their church sessions, but omits the craziness that goes on afterward. After church is over, they dance around like madmen, while the preachers go around speaking in tongues and wacking people in the heads, telling them they've been filled with the spirit or some other hooplah
- They go around telling people that they are possessed by the devil and that they "need Jesus" and should go to their "church" to get un-possessed
- Hiding in plain sight: They speak on topics such as cults/preacher abuse, while they verbally abuse/control their own members
- One time one of the teenaged leaders suddenly claimed he was Jesus, and pretended to be him, while the others looked on and worshipped him
- The usual telling people basically that if the enjoy their lives and aren't deprived of all things fun, that they will burn in hell, and twist obscure bible verses into "supporting" their claims
MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
- I went to a concert sponsored partly by them, and was hanging out with the singer's best friend, when the leader of the cult banished me from the room and said "go back out there, you need to see this." Back at the concert scene, they were "saving people" (asking them to say a prayer to become born-again and instantly given a free ticket to heaven). I was thinking to myself "dude, I already did this" (Back then I was a born-again)...What a jerk!
Go to their site and have lots of fun! [:P][:D][;)][:D][:P]
OOOh, I just went to their web site and the front page is plastered with anti-gay propaganda...did I mention that these fools are bigoted, too???
[:(!]
Hi,
Pardon me for to getting back to this thread. I was thinking was motivated me to start it in the first place. To be honest I was feeling a bit Mardi (blue) and by writing it was gently letting off a little steam! Again thanks for sharing your experiences. I for one found some deeply touching and others gave me a right chuckle indeed[;)]
Cheers,
Stephen [:)]
In Portugal at some time ago there was a Brasilian cult called I.U.R.D. (Universal Church of Gods Kingdom or something like).
They acted like the church that Kodemaster speak about, using poor people with no resources to give their money to them. Generally this people were desperate people, or people with some lack of culture or older people. They would "suck" all the money they could from this poor innocents.
There was a case with IURD in wich someone discovered some videotapes of IURD leaders having lots fun with they boats and cars and making fun about the victims that they had stolen.
I think that the church does not exist any more.
sometimes this "churchs" reminds me about the Biblical sentence: "In the days of the end there will be many people saying «I am Jesus» or «Come, Jesus it is their»" - at least there is something like that in the Bible. I wonder if this are the signals of the Ending Days. I am not a fanatic of this kind of stuff but sometimes i think on it.
For your interest, please study
THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by willy Sutphen -- 22.2 KB
Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today
http://www.freedomdomain.com/mindcontrol/mindbattle.html#axe%20of%20god
09-01-04
"SUMMARY OF CONTENTS
The Birth of Conversion/Brainwashing in Christian Revivalism in
1735. The Pavlovian explanation of the three brain phases. Born-
again preachers: Step-by-Step, how they conduct a revival and the
expected physiological results. The "voice roll" technique used by
preachers, lawyers and hypnotists. New trance-inducing churches.
The 6 steps to conversion.
...
"
quote:
Originally posted by aninfinity1717
For your interest, please study
THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by willy Sutphen -- 22.2 KB
Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today
http://www.freedomdomain.com/mindcontrol/mindbattle.html#axe%20of%20god
09-01-04
"SUMMARY OF CONTENTS
The Birth of Conversion/Brainwashing in Christian Revivalism in
1735. The Pavlovian explanation of the three brain phases. Born-
again preachers: Step-by-Step, how they conduct a revival and the
expected physiological results. The "voice roll" technique used by
preachers, lawyers and hypnotists. New trance-inducing churches.
The 6 steps to conversion.
...
"
An interesting little article – think I came across before several years ago.
S [:)]
I think wisp has expressed it best when saying society is one big cult.
It contains cults within the big cult which is also known as the Earth Life System....I guess all these things are here to try us, tease us, etc. For me personally, I avoid cults with a passion as they are indicative of mind control by others. I believe we have our own destiny(individually) or particular stage of growth spiritually, which is unique to us alone. We are mostly likely heading in the same direction eventually but at a different rate. Cults to me interfere with this. However, those that become embroiled in them (belief systems)then it's maybe their choice to from a higher level. What I'm saying is, I can see through them, but in a past life I may well have been in a cult myself
So, they are just another aspect of our learning here on Earth, imo
Cheers
Dave
What about the CIA's experiments on US citizens during MKULTRA? Get John D Mark's book, "The Search for the Manchurian Candidate," it is one of the most frightening things you will ever read, all Freedom of Information Act Documentation, not here say or rumor (book was written in 1979, 5 years after the American Senates hearings on MKULTRA in 1974).
Just unbelievable things: young children given electric shock therapy to create Multiple Personalities, each one created to perform a specific task. There was a lot of torture involved to break the kids psyches, including sexual abuse.
Oddly, abductee and author Whitley Strieber has come out recently saying he has started remembering events from his childhood which seem to indicate he was briefly a part of those experiments (may have been, he isn't sure). The link to the article is here:
http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=121
Weird sick stuff if it's true.
Well here:
This book was written in 2001 and containd the transcripts of the US Senate Subcommittee hearings on MKULTRA hey, you get to hear comments and questions from the likes of Teddy keenedy and Orin Hatch)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961647582/qid=1094487894/sr=ka-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-1975537-9113535
And here is John D Marks book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393307948/ref=pd_sim_books_1/104-1975537-9113535?v=glance&s=books
Hi all,
I have always found it interesting how individuals and groups attempt to exert influence on others and attempt to gain their trust and place them under their so called benevolent control.
I went through an experience of this kind at school during my teens. Attempts to make one feel part of the group included been made to join in school concerts where wailing Irish Nationalistic/Jingoistic sing along would be accompanied by fever pitched background drumming. Needless to say these dirges were full of tired auld sentiment about the Homeland, and recent martyrdom of Saint like heroes of the Irish cause etc.
Luckily for me (although not some others) my family background was liberal in terms of politics and religion, and being from a mixed religious and cultural background I never felt or wished to become part of the pack of wolves as it were. In my later teens I enjoyed membership of a cross Religious/Community group of students called 'Schools Together', and as such was able to find common ground with other kids from as wide a religious/educational and social background as was possible in Ulster in the late 1970's. I am pleased that some of the people met in those times are still friends to this very day!
Although a few might perceive me as some sort of New Age bumpkin – I am actually cautious and quite aware of the personal dangers of becoming involved in with coercive mind control groups. For instance I had pleasure in preventing a friend from becoming involved with a 'Church of God' type group in the early 80's and had several escapes from individuals involved with an 'AMWAY' like organisation in the 90's.
In recent years as I began to take on a more serious interest in personal spirituality, I had touched base with and again avoided becoming subject of the control of several other cult like groups. Although I feel I have been lucky, but appreciated that some are not so resilient!
Have you or someone close to you had to deal with escaping the clutches of mind controlling groups, or are trying to escape and or come to terms with life on the outside?
All the best,
Stephen
P.S. There are more than a few Anti-cult organisations mostly Christian, but this resource is better than most. http://www.factnet.org/