More than Dreaming??

silvermann · May 07, 2011, 23:58:58

Is astral projection more than being lucid while dreaming? After a couple years of trying it on and off, I've done it twice and I feel like both times it wasn't much more than dreaming. It didn't feel super real, but

1.) are there different levels of lucid dreaming?
2.) can you stay out as long as you want? (I couldn't...)

Xanth · May 08, 2011, 00:22:17

This is my opinion on that subject: http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/10/04/my-new-consciousness-designations/

QuoteI was dreaming this morning and I came to a realization after I awoke. I realized that the term "Conscious awareness" just doesn't work when using it to describe anything more than your awareness during a dream, or in any case, it makes it more confusing. I need a phrase or phrases to make it easier for new people to learn the concepts and a catch all "Conscious Awareness" just doesn't do that, because once you pass into Lucid Dreams and even further, Astral Projections, the term begins to fail.

We dream every night of our lives, yet we don't remember all of them, why? We have varying levels of consciousness through these dreams... everything from not remembering that a dream ever happened, to remembering bits and pieces of a dream, to remembering every last detail of the dream.

I was thinking about how we "remember" our dreams... and I realized that the dreams I remember most, are the ones in which I was most consciously aware in. Not consciously aware in that I knew I was dreaming... but consciously aware that I was experiencing the dream AS it was happening. I call this "Dream Awareness". Basically, I'm living the dream life as if I was awake and not realizing it's a dream. I am the actor not realizing he's in a play. This tends to give me the best chance to remember after I wake.

The next step up from that would be "Lucid Awareness". This is the point where you know you're dreaming and you know that what is around you is a dreamscape. You don't have much more awareness than that though.

After that, I'd call it "Astral Awareness". At this point, you are as wide awake and aware as if you were awake in the physical reality... except you're in the nonphysical.

Also, I believe that the line between Lucid Awareness and Astral Awareness can be very blurred. Your awareness can float between that range at any one time during the experience. You'll start off with Lucid Awareness, then muster up Astral Awareness... after some time, you might lose focus and concentration and drop back down to Lucid Awareness. You could shift back into Dream Awareness too.

For myself, I start off with Dream Awareness, then I'll shift into Lucid Awareness... after that I'll do my conversion to bring forth my Astral Awareness. Generally what happens after some time in Astral Awareness is that I'll just wake up.

So yeah, these are my new "States of Mind". Hopefully they'll assist me in helping new members on the Pulse and other forums I frequent.

I guess you could say that this is the first thing I now disagree with Frank on!

To directly answer your questions though....

Nope, I don't think there aren't different levels of lucid dreaming, you either know you're dreaming or you do not.
As for staying out as long as you want... we're limited by these physical bodies. Their limitations, like having to urinate and stuff like that, limits what we're able to do as the pull they have upon our consciousness to remain within the confines of this physical reality is VERY strong.

Astral316 · May 08, 2011, 08:08:12

Astral Projection is lucid dreaming with the addition of full awareness and cognitive function... it can be so "real" that I have to question if I'm in physical reality... up until I take off flying. I have a feeling you can go much further than what you've already experienced.

Summerlander · May 08, 2011, 15:54:25

AP and LD are just terms...we have different degrees of awareness and focus, and, it is not the dream that becomes lucid, it is us. Dreams, imagination, memories etc. etc. can all be viewed in the real of thoughts...the metaphysical realm...or the so-called "astral plane". It is all happening there. The difference between AP and LD is that they are entered in different ways. Here-now projections, on the other hand, appear to be more related to the consciousness existent in the physical real and probably has a lot more in common with remote viewing than daydreaming.

By the way, this is how I class OOBEs now (since some people here seem to dislike Kepple's Focus model and also I don't want to use the 1st phase/2nd phase terminology in case I get sued):

Mode 1 OOBEs = Here-now or RTZ projections.
Mode 2 OOBEs = Astral Projection.

Bedeekin · May 08, 2011, 17:37:00

lol

Mode...

I am going through a complete paradigm shift at the moment and I can't answer this question without generating a heated discussion.

Suffice to say.. if you aren't thinking 'wow... this is something new and amazing' then you are just having a bog standard dream.

Summerlander · May 08, 2011, 20:07:13

Enlighten us plz...

Astral316 · May 08, 2011, 20:55:09

Materialism over spiritualism perhaps? That's the only thing I'd imagine ruffling a few feathers.

silvermann · May 10, 2011, 00:11:33

Quote from: Bedeekin on May 08, 2011, 17:37:00

Suffice to say.. if you aren't thinking 'wow... this is something new and amazing' then you are just having a bog standard dream.

Wait, what do you mean? My dreams are pretty out there... rarely reminiscent of day to day life...

Summerlander · May 10, 2011, 09:29:20

Bedeekin and his paradigm shifts...

It's simple. We have theories but nobody really knows what the hell is going on when we experience OOBEs. In my opinion, OOBEs, astral projection, lucid dreaming, daydreaming, dreaming, waking states and other mental states not mentioned are all labels and properties of CONSCIOUSNESS. Period. That's as far as I go until I discover something new.

Mode 1 and Mode 2 are distinctions made. Mode 1 isn't necessarily a projection into the physical realm as such experience could still be simulated (whether or not it is connected to, or a 'translation' of, physical reality). The word "mode" here is appropriate because of its link to experiencing something in a certain way, and, like the word "phase", implies something which is subject to change. I also like the fact that in physics, a mode is a pattern of vibration of an oscillating system, and perhaps the OOBE-state is brought about by quantum fluctuations influenced by whatever it is that we really are - how's that for a thought!!

But this is just me thinking so don't take it as gospel. Anyone want a debate or a heated discussion, you are welcome! I'll be waiting. Bring it on!

Xanth · May 10, 2011, 09:57:21

You two and your modes...

Summerlander · May 10, 2011, 10:11:34

LOL! Modes where modalities of perception are experienced.

Stookie_ · May 10, 2011, 11:32:03

Quote from: Xanth on May 10, 2011, 09:57:21
You two and your modes...

...says the "Focus" guy

Pauli2 · May 10, 2011, 13:40:29

Quote from: Bedeekin on May 08, 2011, 17:37:00I am going through a complete paradigm shift at the moment and I can't answer this question without generating a heated discussion.

Suffice to say.. if you aren't thinking 'wow... this is something new and amazing' then you are just having a bog standard dream.

The man with 4000 projections has something new to say and is worried it may instigate heated discussions. I don't think so. You are among friends.

Xanth · May 10, 2011, 13:54:41

Quote from: Stookie_ on May 10, 2011, 11:32:03
...says the "Focus" guy

Touche, good sir.

Thankfully, I've long since given up trying to have Franks experiences. hehe

Rudolph · May 10, 2011, 13:55:59

Quote1.) are there different levels of lucid dreaming?
2.) can you stay out as long as you want? (I couldn't...)

To answer the questions; 1. Yes 2. No

It is the same as the so called, "waking state". There are definitely different and widely varying degrees of lucidity.

Most people are merely sleepwalking through each and every day. A large percentage of humanity is so deeply asleep they do not even recall a single dream over the course of many years.

There are those who recognize they are dreaming during a dream yet still take no control over the direction things go from there. Then there are those who direct the dream in a very crisp and clear fashion. Then there are those who highly Aware and go from LD directly into full conscious OBE with strong intent and discipline.

personalreality · May 10, 2011, 15:09:12

Quote from: silvermann on May 07, 2011, 23:58:58
Is astral projection more than being lucid while dreaming?

that is the question of the hour isn't it?

i would say, debatable.

Summerlander · May 10, 2011, 16:49:04

Rudolph has just nailed it.

However, I am still interested in this paradigm shift from the alien guy who's third eye is 100% open...

Quote from: personalreality on May 10, 2011, 15:09:12
that is the question of the hour isn't it?

i would say, debatable.

I agree. Debatable. Even if the experience is crispier, brighter, super-hyper-real and more intense than an incredibly vivid lucid dream and brought about by the separation sensation post vibrations...how do we know that it's still not just a lucid dream entered in an unusual way and experienced from a crystal clear perspective?

Then again...what are dreams? This is where I think Bedeekin's insights from his paradigm shift are needed and perhaps he might shed some light on this. He has also read Carl Jung's Red Book.

News:

More than Dreaming??