My parents hate when I astral project. They think I should be more like my sisters (who are interested in partying and drinking etc) and stop "living in a dream world". Now, they have begun to try to wake me up early so that I am unable to project after sleeping and often won't let me practice during the day! They think it is all part of my imagination and that I'm having schizophrenic delusions. :x I rarely tell them about my excursions but they will overhear me telling my boyfriend (who is just as interested in AP as I) about my adventures in the astral realm and they'll confront me afterward. I'm at a complete loss of what to do. I've offered to show them sites showing them that its completely normal but they refuse to look into it.
Also, my grandparents think I'm doing something evil or something, and that its morally wrong to go to other dimensions and again, think this is part of my schizophrenia and that I need to have my doses doubled.
*sigh* :-(
Has anyone else encountered this lack of support and understanding?
Yeah just tell them your Napoleon and you can go in the nice white room next to Jesus and Hitler
there just afraid maybe you should just let them live in the dark ages and not relie on them to support your personal development, it is sad but that's life. probably best not to involve them if they cant do better than afraid, they will come around eventually but as long as they think its an illness it will be in there reality
Stand your ground but take more care when involving them
Good Luck
:NoY:
Perhaps you should tell them that you are done with your 'paranoid delusions' but you still feel that you need to get help. Go see a therapist once a week and continue to practice astral projection and don't tell you're parents. :-D
Hard one... They reject looking at sites about AP.
Say that you have researched it and that its completely safe and until they provide a source saying it is not safe, you will continue. Since they don't even wanna look at sites like this they probably wont find anything.
And if they do find something you can just say its more likely to die while driving a car then to get hurt by APing and that they should stop driving!
Quote from: kurtykurt42 on February 08, 2010, 13:43:06
Perhaps you should tell them that you are done with your 'paranoid delusions' but you still feel that you need to get help. Go see a therapist once a week and continue to practice astral projection and don't tell your parents. :-D
I think this is the best idea I've seen here.
Also tell them not letting you sleep enough is going to make your schizophrenia worse, and discuss it with your therapist. He or she can tell them this, and maybe they'll let you 'nap'. And watch what you tell your bf in front of them.
Quote from: Valkry on February 08, 2010, 13:19:41
My parents hate when I astral project. They think I should be more like my sisters (who are interested in partying and drinking etc) and stop "living in a dream world". Now, they have begun to try to wake me up early so that I am unable to project after sleeping and often won't let me practice during the day! They think it is all part of my imagination and that I'm having schizophrenic delusions. :x I rarely tell them about my excursions but they will overhear me telling my boyfriend (who is just as interested in AP as I) about my adventures in the astral realm and they'll confront me afterward. I'm at a complete loss of what to do. I've offered to show them sites showing them that its completely normal but they refuse to look into it.
Also, my grandparents think I'm doing something evil or something, and that its morally wrong to go to other dimensions and again, think this is part of my schizophrenia and that I need to have my doses doubled.
*sigh* :-(
Has anyone else encountered this lack of support and understanding?
I remember back in the day when I was living with my parents... my mother and I were talking about more esoteric subjects, when I mentioned some of the stuff I study. I remember her using words such as "brainwashing"... and "don't waste your time". LOL
I gave her the books of Robert Munroe to read. I was quite pleased that she was able to at least get through the first two books, but she, sadly, refused to read the last one because it was so outlandish (I kinda agree with her there LoL).
But, she's slowly started to come around... once in a while when I visit my parents, we'll break into a talk about that stuff and I'll poise some interesting questions which I know she can't answer and only serve to make her think. She's slowly coming around. LoL
In any case, if your parents are that 'hard butt' against you, you've only got two options. Either they can respect your wishes to learn what you want... or you can respect their wishes and learn what they want you to learn.
I'll tell you this... if/when you move out on your own, I've found that I have *LESS* time to learn what I want to learn because of keeping up with housework/life. LOL
QuoteHas anyone else encountered this lack of support and understanding?
Other than this forum, I've been a loner at this since day one. And before this forum, all I had were books. Parents are devout Christians, so that's a no-go - my relationship with them is more important to me than them thinking I'm going to hell. So personally, I don't see anything wrong with keeping it to yourself. I used to feel like I was holding something in, but that feeling's long gone. I realize I only have to talk about it with people that are genuinely interested, not people who will dismiss it. Like others said, tell your boyfriend only when you're sure no one else is around.
Tell them you decided to take their advice. Then walk down the street with a handle of rum, and when the cops ask you who gave it to you, tell them your parents did.
Seriously though, therapy is the best option. Your parents sound like they need to hear everything from professionals, so let your therapist do the explaining.
Its funny cuz my folks wont mind but I wont get any support. I tried telling them but they also think I might be imagining things. And not only my parents but my friends or anybody else I mention AP to. The problem is where I come from I think. Im from Namibia in Africa and people here are very traditional and not very open minded when it comes to things that seem strange to them. Here people are very much in their comfort zone and are not prepared to step out of it. Its difficult to get motivated because its hard to speak to people at face value. People here are into their religions and I never saw myself as a religous type and dismissed it from an early age. Its a shame cuz I want to talk about this alot especially over coffee or a brewsky but all my friends like to talk about is gossip. And I hate gossip lol. Anyway Im stoked there are sites like these that allow me to express my opinions. I just wish I could get online more lol.
QuoteHas anyone else encountered this lack of support and understanding?
I am telling no one of my family about my astral travelling. Since I became interested in spirituality when I was about 15, I have been told by my parents (and brothers) that all of that was nonsense. God was nonsense, spirits were nonsense and reïncarnation, all of it. So I learned to keep it all to myself. At the moment my parents don't think that way anymore, because they both passed over to the other dimension and both have been giving me signs that they are there and they're alright! :-)
I think, personally, sneaking around is not healthly between you and your family and mentally for anyone!
I dont want to say too much as I have an intense hatred of people pushing their own opinions on their children. If they refuse to learn about the subject there is nothing you can do. It sounds more like a fear that was pushed onto them at an early age rather then simply the fear of the unknown.
Talking to your therapist sounds a good option. Esp with regard to them waking you up AND the fact they dont respect you fully to let you have your own opinions and to give you some ounce of freedom.
Though - they could generally think its all apart of your condition and are not aware that it is separate of the condition. Rather then being fearful of AP - they are simply worried for you :)
I find it funny that something like ap that gives proof and evidence is considered wrong, yet religious people expect you to believe the thing they believe. There's no way your gonna be right against there correct statement. So believe what they believe even though there's no evidence. Apparently to religious people there's a ton of evidence. They usually can't give examples, They tell you to look into it. (Just don't do the most effective stuff cause that's bad), They have a personal relationship with a miraculous god and relationships with miraculous people. Everyone elses miracles are crazy, evil, lies. To a fundamentalist, miraculous events outside there religion, somehow is more evidence in favor of there own beliefs.
Yea Ive met those kinds of people, There really stupid.
Quote from: Enix on February 10, 2010, 19:05:33
I find it funny that something like ap that gives proof and evidence is considered wrong, yet religious people expect you to believe the thing they believe. There's no way your gonna be right against there correct statement. So believe what they believe even though there's no evidence. Apparently to religious people there's a ton of evidence. They usually can't give examples, They tell you to look into it. (Just don't do the most effective stuff cause that's bad), They have a personal relationship with a miraculous god and relationships with miraculous people. Everyone elses miracles are crazy, evil, lies. To a fundamentalist, miraculous events outside there religion, somehow is more evidence in favor of there own beliefs.
Yea Ive met those kinds of people, There really stupid.
And on top of that... most religious books have snippets in them where they allude to stuff like Astral Projection and OBE's, yet the people who supposedly "study" these books kinda ignore these passages.
98% of the population are not ready to hear about this stuff, it freaks people out.
If they are Christians, maybe you can tell them you are visiting God when you do it. The danger in that would be if they go around
telling people their beloved daugther is some kind of saint or visionary.
How old are you? Is moving out an option?
They sound very rigid. If it was me, I would really pose a question to them about the validity and realness of the world they live in.
Like " And how can you be sure of the realness of your reality?". Maybe it is a little to harsh.
There are many places in all faith based religions that OBEs are discussed. I took a class last year called "The Psychology of the Religious Experience" and one of the things we discussed was lucid dreaming, OBEs and NDEs. The teacher had multiple sources in many different religions that describe experiences that couldn't be anything but OBEs. I don't know if religion is at all your problem. But it just goes to show you how much some people really know about their own faith. Talk about brainwashing. Not to offend anyone's practice, but if you're going to try to dictate how one's lifestyle should be, based on your beliefs, then you should understand the full scope and complexity of what you preach.
I've had a tough time with my parents as well. Not necessarily with astral projection, (though my mom doesn't like the idea much) but when I began creating my own spiritual tradition they didn't think it was ok. My mom was convinced I was becoming brainwashed, she even called my high school to report to the administration that my psychology teacher was brainwashing students (though the psych teacher really just taught me about classical conditioning which made me see the brainwashing going on in the rest of the world). Its kind of ironic isn't it. Our parents say that we're brainwashed because they themselves have been brainwashed into believing that anything outside of their accepted belief pattern is morally wrong and will certainly provide us with a one way ticket to some kind of damnation.
I had some other things going on that distracted my mom from the occult things though. Eventually what made things better was,
1) moving, which I highly suggest you do as soon as you can. You'd be surprised how much your spiritual life will blossom when you're given free reign. Just don't neglect the possibility that your current situation is an important learning situation. 2) Getting sober and "contributing" to society. By that I mean that I did some growing up and took on more responsibility. I basically gave my mom a reason to respect me as an adult (or in her words I became "a man"). Not to say that I just fell in line, went back to church and put my name on a cubicle. But I did go back to school, got an apartment, got engaged, got a steady job and of the course the sober bit. All that made a huge difference. 3) I came at my mom from a different perspective. I showed her some very mainstream type meditation books and told her that it was a way to pray. I explained that it would be more meaningful for her that way because she would be able to devote more of her attention and awareness to the practice. I gave her some other books, but I started small, mostly with books about dreams, because everybody dreams. Sometimes it was hard, but I just kept taking my practices and giving them to her as ways to enhance her christian experience. 4) Misdirection. Ultimately, the most effective action I took was too get my mom focused on all these other things I was doing and less on the occult studies and AP. She is still a little skeptical of my job (a metaphysical bookshop), her biggest concern is that I'm going to get pulled into a cult or that everyone at my store smoked pot or something. It's funny because I'm pretty sure the owner of my store is a cult leader. But the point is, she's pretty much off my back about whatever it is that I do in my "private time", be that AP, a ritual, candle dressing, whatever.
You just have to learn how "hold up a bible in one hand" while you're "casting rune stones with the other". It may be distressing, but we don't live in the "free world" we are told we live in. We may not be burned at the stake anymore, but we still have to watch our back sometimes. I don't know what you're like, but if you do display your "alternative beliefs" in a very flamboyant way (if you shove your ways in their face to express your independence or just on principle) it can make things very difficult. Like I said, I don't know what you're like, you may be the most discrete person in the world who just made the mistake of thinking that your parents would be open and accepting of you no matter what. Whatever the case, learn sleight of head. Have them looking "at the bible" while you're "casting a spell". (I want to be clear that I don't literally mean a bible, spells and runes, I don't want to offend anyone. Just metaphors.)
If you do have a diagnosis of schizophrenia then always and I mean ALWAYS take care of the condition. Stay with your meds, talk with your doctor and seek counseling when needed. You should be able to distinguish your spiritual experiences from drab reality. You should try to keep close to others who understand your beliefs (hard to do sometimes). Your doctor will not understand, your therapist will not understand and your parents will be to concerned of your well being to understand. If you relapse into illness it will be very easy for those around you to distinguish this from you spiritual journey. You are not required by any means to share your religious or spiritual self with anyone you do not want to share it with. Sounds like your parents care about you. Show them you care about yourself as well, that will help in the long run.
My parents never knew and still do not know. I don't plan on telling them anytime soon...
Unfortunately, a lot of people are unsupportive of astral projection and other things they don't understand. It is the whole fear of the unknown...
Visit them in their dreams and scare them into letting you project all you want. :evil:
schizophrenia is fun
Quote from: personalreality on April 29, 2010, 11:11:46
schizophrenia is fun
No, it is not. Saying that is FUQDUP and show little insight. Just sayin :?
Quote from: Psilibus on May 08, 2010, 14:36:45
No, it is not. Saying that is FUQDUP and show little insight. Just sayin :?
You can, generally, safely assume that what PR says, if you take any offense to it, is sarcasm. ;)
I don't necessarily believe schizophrenia to be a "disease".
I think it is potentially an opportunity.
I think schizophrenics are open to both this world and the "other" world that we call things like the astral or the beyond.
Were they to be "treated" in a place that didn't tell them they were crazy and force them to try to live like other people when they obviously aren't like other people, things might be a little different.
I think that western medicine exacerbates something that very well may a gift. The same with autism and aspergers (sp?).
People in the westernized world have a horrible experience with schizophrenia, I won't dispute that.
Psilibus, we're both coming from a similar place, we think about people psychologically. I get that.
But maybe the way psychology has taught us to think about psychology is wrong.
There is a very small segment of people with schizophrenia who only hear the voices telling them wonderful things like "you are the best", "you're great", etc, etc. I knew a guy who was a psychiatric resident @ UNC hospital a few years ago and he actually was telling me about seeing a patient like this. They don't usually treat them with any medications or therapy. These patients are usually very functional, successful and happy.
Personalreality-
Was your last post sarcasm? If it was then "ok".
I realize you are being schooled in psychology. I suppose you may "believe" it is not a disease. I however will profoundly disagree with you although for the sake of argument we could say "brain disorder" -http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml. As I have stated, I work in acute inpatient mental health. I have worked in a hospital setting since 1998. I am a registered nurse certified in psychiatric care. I have worked with acutely mentally ill who are generally brought in by ambulance through the emergency room. We can think about the disorder all day long but when I see people who have lost their ability to communicate effectively and live a productive life I don't have to think, I have to act. I know very many who function quite well and enjoy their lives despite the diagnosis but this is not without the support of family and the community. Also, as with all disorders, there are varying degrees and so what works for one may not work for the other. The following is a quote from my earlier post and was exactly how I tried to show some community support -
Quote from: Psilibus on April 18, 2010, 20:17:57
If you do have a diagnosis of schizophrenia then always and I mean ALWAYS take care of the condition. Stay with your meds, talk with your doctor and seek counseling when needed. You should be able to distinguish your spiritual experiences from drab reality. You should try to keep close to others who understand your beliefs (hard to do sometimes). Your doctor will not understand, your therapist will not understand and your parents will be to concerned of your well being to understand. If you relapse into illness it will be very easy for those around you to distinguish this from you spiritual journey. You are not required by any means to share your religious or spiritual self with anyone you do not want to share it with. Sounds like your parents care about you. Show them you care about yourself as well, that will help in the long run.
The positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia are generally observable by those close to the person with the disorder. If the parents don't understand anything about astral projection and such "real" beliefs they may confuse this with symptoms of an illness - "magical thinking" for example.
I refuse to see mental illness as a handicap. It is a disease which can be treated successfully with meds, without meds, with therapy, without therapy or simply with love and support. It cannot be ignored however and I have never heard ANYONE describe it as a "gift". Voices, "wonderful" or not, are only a small part of the symptom spectrum. Whether they are "open to both this world and the other" is really of no consequence since in reality we all are. We, you and I, are able to distinguish a difference between the two though.
As to the comment on Western medicine I will have to disagree as well. I have worked with many psychiatrists from all over the globe including Sweden, Australia, Saudi Arabia and Germany. The perspectives are unique for certain but the acute symptoms and degree of lethality is the same wherever you go. It is the stigma attached by the uneducated society at large in the western world that can make it a "horrible experience".
I will agree with your statement about what psychology has taught us. I work in this field because I love the people. I see much of myself in their humanity. I witness incredible strength and intelligence. The difficulty with schizophrenia is that it is not a mood disorder which responds to "psychology", it is a neural networking disorder that causes misinterpretation of perceived stimuli. A person with a diagnosis of schizophrenia is not suffering from an existential crisis which responds to therapy. They and their support system require extensive education to cope with the symptoms. Luckily, for you and I, the knowledge required is growing by leaps and bounds everyday and we will be able to share this as we learn.
My apologies to the original poster for hijacking this thread with my ranting. Thank you, Personalreality, for keeping me on my toes {takes a deep breath}
I still think schizophrenic is a person who lives between worlds.
But, I understand where you're coming from. You've seen it.
I know what you must think of me too, "College kid, gets a little taste of psych and thinks he knows" and you'd be right, I don't really know. I have seen a lot of research films on schizophrenia and seen two in person, but not like what you see on a regular basis.
Unfortunately for me I see the dark side of the disorder. I see mentally ill people when things have decompensated to a forced hospitalization. I do however see the drastic improvements and return to their families and communities. There is nothing worse than seeing a straight A high school student and athletic star, beloved by family and friends, brought in babbling incoherently and lashing out in abject fear. The family is devastated and lives change. It generally takes much love and patience on everyone's part. The recovery is usually bittersweet. I hate to paint such a picture. It does not do the sufferer justice. I do wish there were more tolerance and understanding by the general public, not just toward mental illness but other disorders such as the autism spectrum and mental retardation. The people who endure these illnesses are true giants of human spirit and can be some of the most genuine people you can meet.
As I've said before PR, it is a noble pursuit you are on. I Do think you know. Your just getting started. Don't stop. People need you.
Prove to them that you are NOT a schizophrenic by telling them something that you could not possibly know unless you had astral projected! (like,....i dont know...something that happned outside or a room that you were not in). I'd do that if I could astral project. Psh, Id be furious (Its a natural hate when I am accused of something I didnt do, or disbelieved when I am telling the truth, etc...lol I get physical symptoms)
Oh I'm sorry...was this subject old? oops.
that's ok
uhm, it doesn't really matter.. neway
proving such things to people will be hard especially those who seemingly aren't open minded to begin with. You would be shocked to see how resistant humanity is to anti-materialistic ideas as they cling ever so tightly to materialism even with empirical proof.
i defecate on empirical proof.
I flatulate empirical poof.
I empirically declare it smells in here.
I wonder how Valkry is doing, hope she is fine.
It has been a while hasn't it