Nameless Thoughts, Discussions and Ramblings

[Nameless]

Yikes, the thoughts go round and round like the wheels on the bus. And today's thought is this.

What is so special about astral projection? I'm thinking specifically about the etheric and astral body. Why not just go straight to the mental plane? On the mental plane you have no need to 'get out', you don't need to be able to fly or vanquish bad guys. It seems to me being on those levels is about as tiresome as being on the physical level where you have a physical body to drag around.

[Subtle Traveler]

I will "ramble" that out of body experiences are not why we are here. Being more non-physical is not the goal. The goal is to temporarily be physical - as an extension of the broader, non-physical part of ourselves. Then we "croak" and we are completely non-physical, which is then more purposeful, because we are slightly different than before we came here.

I like Frank DeMarco's recently discovered term for this. We are "complex beings".

I would hold forth that if someone is interested (e.g., desire) in projection or OBE's, then that can be one of the purposes or reasons that they are here - to explore their multi-dimensionality from a physical perspective. However, the primary reason to be here is not to redeem, to learn, etc. It is most simply to enjoy the expansion of consciousness into physical reality. I do think that many in the OBE community overlook these points.

I understand what you are saying about levels (e.g., focuses) but that is all conceptual for me. When it comes to levels beyond the astral, I cannot speak from conscious experience. So, I am leaving your primary question to someone like Szaxx, EV, Lumaza and others with that experience.

[Lumaza]

What is so special about astral projection? I'm thinking specifically about the etheric and astral body. Why not just go straight to the mental plane? On the mental plane you have no need to 'get out', you don't need to be able to fly or vanquish bad guys.

It gives you the opportunity to have a awe inspiring experience consciously aware from a different view point per se. The "etheric and Astral bodies" are normally experienced in a RTZ outing and what you experience in the RTZ seems quite a bit different from the visual extravaganza that can await you in a mental projection, like Mandalas and all kinds of unique visuals.
Most of my OBEs are spontaneous and they occur in the state of SP. My Phase sessions are always initiated by me and my LDs seem to lead to both areas. I find myself on all kinds of different planes of existence in those ones. I also find that different cycles of our Dreams lead to different areas as well.

You can learn to become proficient in all aspects of non ordinary states of consciousness. You can have a OBE, LD, mental projection. You could also Scry, remote view, etc..

Most people understand the term OBE as being "only" a out of body experience. They think of Phasing as "day Dreaming" and we already know what they think Dreaming is. So, their initial goal is to actually have a OBE in the true sense of the term.  Their first experience with projection may have come through a SP experience or they might have just all of a sudden become consciously aware while sleeping that they were already out of their body and now they want to learn how to repeat it consciously again.

Phasing or the "Mental Planes" seem to be a progression that one experiences when one wishes to delve deeper into this Art/practice. It's kind of like "Level 2". The more you are open and serious to it, the more "new" doors seem to open to you. 

It seems to me being on those levels is about as tiresome as being on the physical level where you have a physical body to drag around.

It's also tiresome in how long it takes to achieve a good strong mind/awake body asleep state. A OBE in the true sense of the word takes quite a bit longer to achieve than a shift in consciousness achieved by Phasing. (I know you know that Nameless and ST. I am just stating that for other members here that may be reading my reply here.)
It used to take me anywhere from a hour-hour and half to have a OBE, whereas I found myself in the RTZ. When I spontaneously awoke in SP, I had to not only gain my bearings quite quickly, but also to control my fears and realize exactly what was going on. I don't care who you are, when you first awaken in full SP, it is quite a shock to the system. Sure, you soon realize what is happening and why. But the initial shock is still there.

[LightBeam]

I just cant get enough of experiencing different adventures no matter where I am. I am beginning to think that my brain is producing way too much dopamine, because most of the time I am in a bubbly state of happiness and joy. For the record, I do not use any drugs natural or synthetic. I am against brain function altering substances. But that's another issue.
Anyway, I noticed that this state of heightened excitement about existence, exploration and adventures started with the AP experiences. When I realized that there are absolutely no limits to existence, a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I felt completely free and powerful. And it wasn't just faith, it was evidence from first hand experiences. That's why I value every experience I have at any level. Since then, actually my excitement about living here has increased.
There are many definitions of what mental state is. If you are referring to the "highest heaven", yes, it would be nice...if you can get there . But I think, if I stay too long where there is nothing else to learn, I may get bored. Maybe that's my human nature speaking, the need to explore more and more and more just for the thrill of seeing new things. If you wish, wherever you are, you can stop and experience stillness and bliss, rest, and then hit the road again. It's a matter of what makes each of us happy.

[Nameless]

I will "ramble" that out of body experiences are not why we are here. Being more non-physical is not the goal. The goal is to temporarily be physical - as an extension of the broader, non-physical part of ourselves. Then we "croak" and we are completely non-physical, which is then more purposeful, because we are slightly different than before we came here.

I like Frank DeMarco's recently discovered term for this. We are "complex beings".

I would hold forth that if someone is interested (e.g., desire) in projection or OBE's, then that can be one of the purposes or reasons that they are here - to explore their multi-dimensionality from a physical perspective. However, the primary reason to be here is not to redeem, to learn, etc. It is most simply to enjoy the expansion of consciousness into physical reality. I do think that many in the OBE community overlook these points.

I understand what you are saying about levels (e.g., focuses) but that is all conceptual for me. When it comes to levels beyond the astral, I cannot speak from conscious experience. So, I am leaving your primary question to someone like Szaxx, EV, Lumaza and others with that experience.

Thank you ST, your input is always so spot-on and valuable. What you have said here does resonate in my own thoughts as well. Living in the here and now I feel is the true challenge. I think you may have hit on the crux of this whole thought for me, that is that learning to do what we already know how to do from a physical reality could certainly be a part of the fascination.

Thank you for that.

[Nameless]

  Most people understand the term OBE as being "only" a out of body experience. They think of Phasing as "day Dreaming" and we already know what they think Dreaming is. So, their initial goal is to actually have a OBE in the true sense of the term.  Their first experience with projection may have come through a SP experience or they might have just all of a sudden become consciously aware while sleeping that they were already out of their body and now they want to learn how to repeat it consciously again.

Sometimes it's hard to remember that not everyone has had these experiences so when they suddenly do of course they would/might be left wanting to know more. Thanks for the reality check. I forget sometimes not everyone has lived with this pretty much forever.

It used to take me anywhere from a hour-hour and half to have a OBE, whereas I found myself in the RTZ. When I spontaneously awoke in SP, I had to not only gain my bearings quite quickly, but also to control my fears and realize exactly what was going on. I don't care who you are, when you first awaken in full SP, it is quite a shock to the system. Sure, you soon realize what is happening and why. But the initial shock is still there.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Those changing vibes can wreak havoc on everything you thought you knew. Thank you Lumaza for your input, I love how you bring me down to earth (so to speak).

[Phildan1]

And Subtle Traveler, what about the vast majority "here" on Earth, and those who are trapped in the NP in their belief systems and who are coming back constantly here because they are in addiction? We and a happy few are really here for that reason, what you said, I clearly feel it. But most of the people are not as I saw it and experience it daily. The 95-99% of humans are not ready to let go this planet and the physical.

I agree what you said but this issue is true for just a few people, I mean for a little percentage. Most human lifer souls are not ready for anything.
I'm saying this because the vast majority is not here for enjoy the expansion of their own being or doing new things, or what they wanted to originally.

I hope I pointed out the "but" part of this "theory"    Look at the world today. People are suffering, working like slaves, not enjoying life, following religions because they can't be so brave to be on their own etc. many many "negative" things.

Of course we try to do our best to stay happy, keep the inner connection, learn to travel with our minds and realize that we are manifesting out our inner world. I don't think so that there are loads of people out there who are ready to go a big step forward or look behind the scenes of the bigger reality. Regular people just keep their attention on their physical focus and thats all.

Sorry if I was negative, this expansion in multidimensional inner self is just one side.

[Nameless]

I just cant get enough of experiencing different adventures no matter where I am. I am beginning to think that my brain is producing way too much dopamine, because most of the time I am in a bubbly state of happiness and joy. For the record, I do not use any drugs natural or synthetic. I am against brain function altering substances. But that's another issue.
Anyway, I noticed that this state of heightened excitement about existence, exploration and adventures started with the AP experiences. When I realized that there are absolutely no limits to existence, a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I felt completely free and powerful. And it wasn't just faith, it was evidence from first hand experiences. That's why I value every experience I have at any level. Since then, actually my excitement about living here has increased.
There are many definitions of what mental state is. If you are referring to the "highest heaven", yes, it would be nice...if you can get there . But I think, if I stay too long where there is nothing else to learn, I may get bored. Maybe that's my human nature speaking, the need to explore more and more and more just for the thrill of seeing new things. If you wish, wherever you are, you can stop and experience stillness and bliss, rest, and then hit the road again. It's a matter of what makes each of us happy.

LightBeam that is lovely. Although I was not referring to the 'highest heaven' I understand what you are saying about human nature and that need to keep growing, learning, experiencing. Knowing this life as we generally 'know it' is not all there is is certainly an awesome gift to realize.

[Nameless]

Phil, now you're talking about the other side to this coin and that is where those of us who 'know' have our work cut out for us. It's like a sieve with tiny tiny holes where only a few can escape but the more that wiggle through the more will be able to as the holes get stretched bigger and bigger.

Now is probably the first time in human history since the coming of set belief systems that people are finally beginning to let go of those belief systems and allow themselves to just be. It's a start.

I'll be interested in ST's reply to this.

[Phildan1]

Yes, of course, many started to wake up, but who knows how many lol. My perspective is that many try to change their belief system to another. Is that escaping? XD But we are on escape mode. Whatever it means to others.

[Nameless]

I don't think we can escape having a belief system. What matters is what those beliefs are. Even the 'others' have beliefs. Moving societies through those systems is progress however small.

[Phildan1]

I don't think we can escape having a belief system. What matters is what those beliefs are. Even the 'others' have beliefs. Moving societies through those systems is progress however small.

Yes, right, we don't need to discuss it deeply By belief I meant that it is about religion and self limiting things. We are still in the dark ages and the name "dark" was not about lack of sunlight or the color lol.

[Szaxx]

Yikes, the thoughts go round and round like the wheels on the bus. And today's thought is this.

What is so special about astral projection? I'm thinking specifically about the etheric and astral body. Why not just go straight to the mental plane? On the mental plane you have no need to 'get out', you don't need to be able to fly or vanquish bad guys. It seems to me being on those levels is about as tiresome as being on the physical level where you have a physical body to drag around.

All 'levels' hold keys to more,  when you think about it as things are, first you learn to stand, by doing this you next walk and with practice you can run.  Most see this as an all encompassing endeavour yet it's the tip of the iceberg. You can also learn language and environmental interactive skills, by doing this you can create. In these creations you can fly and flying is outside of the normally available means of getting around. We understand more about the NP as we interact with it whilst others scoff at the absurdity.
The old saying 'one day man will travel to the Moon ' is now made a reality. This too was once scoffed at.
The RTZ may allow us to watch the fountains on Europa that one day will be seen but it's only these basic experiences that lead to more. 
The mental experiences can be amazing as well as confusing. It's hard to imagine being an emotion from the physical world viewpoint yet it's part of the mental environments that sits naturally in place.
You may not have to 'get out' but you certainly need to 'get in' to comprehend the basics of the mental and the more involved you reach the depth becomes inaccessible as our minds are not ready for this.

[Lumaza]

You may not have to 'get out' but you certainly need to 'get in' to comprehend the basics of the mental and the more involved you reach the depth becomes inaccessible as our minds are not ready for this.

Excellent reply Szaxx!  

You are so right. Experiencing the awe and things you can see, feel and "know" in the "mental planes" is many times something we don't even have words here to explain. These are the areas of spiraling Mandalas, grids, portals after portals, motion at faster than the speed of sound and the most unique part of it is you are just consciousness itself, totally devoid of any kind of physical body/vessel. You are just a simple point of consciousness absorbing all you see and experience.
Sometimes it gets to be too much to bear too. It is so awe inspiring that it shocks or sometimes tends to overload the "Human side" of your consciousness and you need to click out or abort it.

The RTZ has it's benefits as well. This is your first step to proving to yourself that this is something real. You can hear about OBEs/Astral Travel from others you may know, but it only becomes real once you prove it to yourself.
You may get a "sneak peek" of the other planes, but normally a new person's mindset is still solely on "physical aspects" of things. Your first experience period is normally a sneak peek of the RTZ and that is a lot to absorb at that stage itself.

[Subtle Traveler]

And Subtle Traveler, what about the vast majority "here" on Earth, and those who are trapped in the NP in their belief systems and who are coming back constantly here because they are in addiction?

No one is trapped here. The earth planet is not 'rehab' for people attracted to their belief systems (e.g., that is a belief system itself). We have discussed these points before.

With powerful and clear intent, we each (all 7 billion of us) have come forth (a choice) as a physical extension of our non-physical aspects. Before we came here, we were deserving. While we are here, we are deserving. After we transition, we will remain deserving. As an extension of Source (or whatever someone calls that for themselves), we are always deserving.

Consciousness is continually expanding. My non-physical aspects support my expansion here. I am here for the joy of this expansion. It is what I am attracted to, and therefore, it gets my focus.

[Subtle Traveler]

Thanks for this, Szaxx.

[Nameless]

The mental experiences can be amazing as well as confusing. It's hard to imagine being an emotion from the physical world viewpoint yet it's part of the mental environments that sits naturally in place.
You may not have to 'get out' but you certainly need to 'get in' to comprehend the basics of the mental and the more involved you reach the depth becomes inaccessible as our minds are not ready for this.

Yes. it is confusing and once again I find myself on a slow climb uphill as this is the area that currently draws me. Unlike the RTZ experiences in the mental I am as completely there as I am here. There is no separation more like an extension. Thank you for this Szaxx.

[Nameless]

I was interested in your reply ST. You are helping me clarify my own thoughts and how I communicate those. We are trapped by our own beliefs not by the system itself. Seems the entire physical human race suffers from a serious lack of self-esteem. Self-knowledge is there but it is shut out due to our physical form.

[Nameless]

And... this all leads to my next eye-opening thought (at least for me).

Religion (old or new) is NOT the problem - It is the SYMPTOM. So how do we identify and treat the problem?

[Lumaza]

 I found this quote here and it seemed to be fitting to our previous discussion here. (Sorry Nameless I don't want to respond on anything about Religion, other than to say that "some" people do need the "structure" that it provides.)

"When you reach for the stars, you are reaching for the farthest thing out there. When you reach deep into yourself, it is the same thing, but in the opposite direction. If you reach in both directions, you will have spanned the universe."
― Vera Nazarian, The Perpetual Calendar of Inspiration

[Nameless]

Love that quote Lumaza, it fits beautifully.

As to the religion, I definitely do not want a religious discussion. I think we are all past that mostly. What I am looking for though is that I do not think religion is the problem or ever has been sooo... what is the problem that created this symptom.  In other words what is it about this physical form that makes any of us past or present believe we need these beliefs (whatever they are) in the first place.

Where does that need come from? It's okay if no one wants to touch this. I've no idea what more I could add myself. Just my thoughts spinning.

[Szaxx]

Where does that need come from? It's okay if no one wants to touch this. I've no idea what more I could add myself. Just my thoughts spinning.

You are indoctrinated from birth in many places around the world and it leads to a feeling you have to belong to the local group to survive. Some of it is instinct too, that natural tendency towards staying alive means you have to fit in else be rejected.

[Subtle Traveler]

Love that quote Lumaza, it fits beautifully.

As to the religion, I definitely do not want a religious discussion. I think we are all past that mostly. What I am looking for though is that I do not think religion is the problem or ever has been sooo... what is the problem that created this symptom.  In other words what is it about this physical form that makes any of us past or present believe we need these beliefs (whatever they are) in the first place.

Where does that need come from? It's okay if no one wants to touch this. I've no idea what more I could add myself. Just my thoughts spinning.

Religion is man-made ... it is a "physically manifested" creation. However, it certainly is awkward and confusing that religion is often man's attempt to focus what is referred to here as "non-physical". This makes the discussion about religion rather prickly, and this is why beliefs often become "gooey glue" with us getting stuck in a particular thought or thought pattern.

Regarding our relationship with the non-physical (our inner being) ... on a daily basis we are in alignment then out of alignment ... in alignment then out of alignment ... in alignment then out of alignment ... BUT there is no set back in any of this. We are extended here at the edge of thought ... of creation.

I like what Szaxx wrote to you. I would add that there are also "inner or non-physical" influences. Some have pointed to these as past lives or the soul, but my sense is that the non-physical energies influencing us are much more complex than what we traditionally accept as a "soul". This is why I have accepted the nomenclature of "complex being". Frank DeMarco's books (Rita's World I and II) discuss this.

Recently (last Monday) guidance gave me a response to a question (a frustration) that I had ... I was talking rather boldly to them as I sensed that I was being laughed at or made fun of (which I guess is to be expected when I get out of alignment ... as I was) ... but the metaphor that they gave me was that 'I am the captain of my own mystery ship'. I loved this ... because there is always an element of mystery ... in us ... in our collective group dynamics ... in the Universe.

Finally, I can offer an affirmation or balm for your questioning and 'problem focus' on this thread ... "The better I feel the more allow" ... so look for things that make you feel good. If this thread makes you feel good, then you are already on your way.  

[Nameless]

I like what Szaxx wrote to you. I would add that there are also "inner or non-physical" influences. Some have pointed to these as past lives or the soul, but my sense is that the non-physical energies influencing us are much more complex than what we traditionally accept as a "soul". This is why I have accepted the nomenclature of "complex being". Frank DeMarco's books (Rita's World I and II) discuss this.

Recently (last Monday) guidance gave me a response to a question (a frustration) that I had ... I was talking rather boldly to them as I sensed that I was being laughed at or made fun of (which I guess is to be expected when I get out of alignment ... as I was) ... but the metaphor that they gave me was that 'I am the captain of my own mystery ship'. I loved this ... because there is always an element of mystery ... in us ... in our collective group dynamics ... in the Universe.

Finally, I can offer an affirmation or balm for your questioning and 'problem focus' on this thread ... "The better I feel the more allow" ... so look for things that make you feel good. If this thread makes you feel good, then you are already on your way. 

Religion is man-made ... it is a "physically manifested" creation. However, it certainly is awkward and confusing that religion is often man's attempt to focus what is referred to here as "non-physical". This makes the discussion about religion rather prickly, and this is why beliefs often become "gooey glue" with us getting stuck in a particular thought or thought pattern.
This is why I have accepted the nomenclature of "complex being". Frank DeMarco's books (Rita's World I and II) discuss this.

Recently (last Monday) guidance gave me a response to a question (a frustration) that I had ... I was talking rather boldly to them as I sensed that I was being laughed at or made fun of (which I guess is to be expected when I get out of alignment ... as I was) ... but the metaphor that they gave me was that 'I am the captain of my own mystery ship'. I loved this ... because there is always an element of mystery ... in us ... in our collective group dynamics ... in the Universe.

Finally, I can offer an affirmation or balm for your questioning and 'problem focus' on this thread ... "The better I feel the more allow" ... so look for things that make you feel good. If this thread makes you feel good, then you are already on your way. 

Complex definitely describes us. I actually like that you were being bold with your guidance. I do that as well though not often. Maybe not often enough. I'm trying to have a more positive outlook as lately I've been really feeling negative vibes.