The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 16:44:08

Title: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 16:44:08
Hi all,

I posted this hear cause I didn't know where the appropriate place would be to ask about this. I have been pondering some things lately that I wanted to ask the community to give some insight on.

There are those who believe that demons exist and are evil, others believe that demons are just lower astral entities, and others believe there are no good or bad entities, just different levels of vibration.  I really don't know which is the right answer, but I think it is safe to say that lower entities DO exist and that some could be pretty nasty.

There are alot of alleged cases of "demons" who terrorize people in the physical world, causing physical harm to some of them, haunting them.. in these cases, priests or demonologists end up saying that these demons have specific names and perform exorcisms to banish them etc...

I have heard people in the ghost investigation circuits and demon circuits saying that the difference between a ghost and a demon is that a demon has never been human.

So I started pondering a few questions.. are demon's just another form of lower astral entities? And then a bigger question: Why do lower astral entities and/or demons exist??

What I mean is, if we all come from source and we reincarnate over and over living our lives to learn lessons to eventually return to source, then what purpose is there for source to create these lower entities?

I suspect some may say that these cases of demon attacks on physical people are not real or something else all together, if so what?

I realize this may be a very deep and big question.. maybe too big.. but I would like to hear people's opinions on it either way... :D
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 13, 2012, 17:46:48
I personally have never been harmed regardless of what problems I might have encountered. Nor have I seen what i would consider 'demons'.

This information is the current understanding and what I can ascertain personally....

Non-physical entities that display negative aspects can't really interfere with this one. They aren't allowed nor do they possess the ability to do so. They simply don't have those privileges. They can't possess us any more than we can possess them. You are specific to your body.

"Why do lower astral entities and/or demons exist??"

Why do nasty people exist in this reality? The nonphysical isn't perfect... very much like this one. It contains extreme variations of beauty and horror.

"if we all come from source and we reincarnate over and over living our lives to learn lessons to eventually return to source, then what purpose is there for source to create these lower entities? "

reality doesn't create predisposed murderers... they become murderers through their environment and upbringing... also there are other factors obviously... this goes for nonphysical residents also. They are doing the same thing as us.

This reality is just a constrained pattern of the wider reality with much stricter rulesets.

Most perceived possessions and encounters with demons take place during Sleep Paralysis. This state offers your fear and imagination to go wild together.


Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: majour ka on November 13, 2012, 18:25:43
Hey Tea,

The only demons that exist are peoples inner demons lol. There really is no such thing, or evil spirits. Its all fiction.

The spirit world told me recently that as we develop our good, kind, spiritual side so our light grows. The more intense our light the higher the frequency we can exist at in the next life. So in short if when a person leaving this life their light is less bright and more dim then they wont be able to reach or experience areas of higher frequency. Until they progress.

The astral plane is an emotional plane that is a reflection of our subconscious and is not the level of existence of the spirit world. At least as spiritualist medium that is how I have come to understand and believe it works. In the astral we will experience reflections of our own subconscious belief and possible fears.

Hope that helps  :-)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 19:17:24
Quote from: majour ka on November 13, 2012, 18:25:43
Hey Tea,

The only demons that exist are peoples inner demons lol. There really is no such thing, or evil spirits. Its all fiction.

The spirit world told me recently that as we develop our good, kind, spiritual side so our light grows. The more intense our light the higher the frequency we can exist at in the next life. So in short a person leaving this life and their light is less bright and more dim then they wont be able to reach or experience areas of higher frequency. Until they progress.

The astral plane is an emotional plane that is a reflection of our subconscious and is not the level of existence of the spirit world. At least a spiritualist medium that is how I have come to understand and believe it works. In the astral we will experience reflections of our own subconscious belief and possible fears.

Hope that helps  :-)

Very interesting.. so would that mean that everyone starts out as a low astral entity, then somehow eventually begins to encarnate and reincarnate when they reach a certain level on the spirit plane? And I guess also if in a life, you develop inner demons, maybe you murder and rape women, etc etc.. then when you die you will go down in vibration and have to work your way back up?

In this example, it almost brings into play the Hell beliefs... some people say hell doesnt exist which I believe is true.. but we create our on hell maybe? If that is true, then there would be punishment in this way for doing bad things in life, and rewards for being good.

Or maybe I am looking at it too 3-dimensionally..
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 19:42:57
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 13, 2012, 17:46:48
I personally have never been harmed regardless of what problems I might have encountered. Nor have I seen what i would consider 'demons'.

This information is the current understanding and what I can ascertain personally....

Non-physical entities that display negative aspects can't really interfere with this one. They aren't allowed nor do they possess the ability to do so. They simply don't have those privileges. They can't possess us any more than we can possess them. You are specific to your body.

"Why do lower astral entities and/or demons exist??"

Why do nasty people exist in this reality? The nonphysical isn't perfect... very much like this one. It contains extreme variations of beauty and horror.

"if we all come from source and we reincarnate over and over living our lives to learn lessons to eventually return to source, then what purpose is there for source to create these lower entities? "

reality doesn't create predisposed murderers... they become murderers through their environment and upbringing... also there are other factors obviously... this goes for nonphysical residents also. They are doing the same thing as us.

This reality is just a constrained pattern of the wider reality with much stricter rulesets.

Most perceived possessions and encounters with demons take place during Sleep Paralysis. This state offers your fear and imagination to go wild together.




Thanks for that info. About the so called "demon attacks" being sleep paralysis or fiction.. I have found alot of documented cases where people were having a haunting in their home that turned somehow physical where they felt burning on their back, took photos or had a camera rolling during a paranormal investigation, and found that their back had materialized scratches on them. Other than that type of stuff, I dont know that there are any other attacks I could speak of.. I just wondered how you would explain those type of incidents.. I haven't experienced anything like this so I can't back up these claims.. some of what I have seen has been on TV so I guess you could say it was faked and edited to make it look like something happened.

As for things like "possession" I tend to believe that these were mostly early cases of mental illness that were misunderstood and some now that are still misunderstood. Although, there are alot of claims of "possessed people" being able to speak ancient dead languages that they would have no way of knowing.. again, these could be just hoaxes meant to instill fear in people.

To me, if these things didn't exist, it would make alot more sense to me.. because we all know about lower astral entities but they shouldn't be able to do things like this as you said.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 13, 2012, 20:04:19
I just think that we tend to fixate on the nonphysical using dogma created projections.

Skin is very prone to intentional thought... look at stigmata... which appear on both wrists in some... or the centre of the hand in others. This I guess depends how knowledgeable the person afflicted is about the way people were crucified. Look at psoriasis, which can be effectively treated by placebo... 99% of the time. Hypnosis is another.

Using 'outside' influence to describe these things... projecting anthropomorphic dogma related tags like 'demon' 'Djinn' or 'Incubus' only leads to a disempowering of ones OWN mind. It is amazing how your intent can control your physical. It is amazing that we can manifest our own fears... and equally amazing that we can rid them without the need of a religion or faith.

I don't mean to be annoying but how can someone identify a 'dead' language if it's dead? I doubt the priest and family present would be able to identify a long lost archaic language. Thinking more nonphysically there is no reason why a person can't drag up the past memory of a lost language.

It always seems to be religious families who have possessions. This alone makes me dubious.  :-)

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 20:18:21
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 13, 2012, 20:04:19
I just think that we tend to fixate on the nonphysical using dogma created projections.

Skin is very prone to intentional thought... look at stigmata... which appear on both wrists in some... or the centre of the hand in others. This I guess depends how knowledgeable the person afflicted is about the way people were crucified. Look at psoriasis, which can be effectively treated by placebo... 99% of the time. Hypnosis is another.

Using 'outside' influence to describe these things... projecting anthropomorphic dogma related tags like 'demon' 'Djinn' or 'Incubus' only leads to a disempowering of ones OWN mind. It is amazing how your intent can control your physical. It is amazing that we can manifest our own fears... and equally amazing that we can rid them without the need of a religion or faith.

I don't mean to be annoying but how can someone identify a 'dead' language if it's dead? I doubt the priest and family present would be able to identify a long lost archaic language. Thinking more nonphysically there is no reason why a person can't drag up the past memory of a lost language.

It always seems to be religious families who have possessions. This alone makes me dubious.  :-)



I agree alot of it probably is perpetrated by religion. I have heard the idea that maybe these people may be manefesting these things physically using their minds without knowing they are doing it.. I never used to believe that but now that I am going through this awakening process and realize what reality is, I can totally see that being true.

With the languages, I guess they call a language that isn't used anymore (but still exists in texts that are spoken and read by scholars) a dead language. But as you said, what is to say that isnt a form of channeling a past life.. and for that matter, what is to say the whole thing isn't channeling a former life where you were mentally ill, or multiple lives at once? I could say that would easily be looked at as a possession when it couldn't be explained by a current mental illness.

Since I mentioned mental illness here so much, I should go further and say I also believe some cases of mental illness are misdiagnosed... I think it is possible that people who hear "voices" and see things that "aren't there" could actually just be tapped into their natural abilities, but be so confused by it that it drives them mad.

Interesting take on this stuff.. I tend to agree with you on this I think. :)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bordmb on November 13, 2012, 20:28:43
First allow me to explain that there are many types of negative entities. Some, such as demons, have been given power and even brought into existence by a collective belief in their presence and workings. Baal (Bael) is always my example as I, as well as my family, have had multiple experiences with "him." If you are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with this particular entity, I advise you envision a white light and  know that you are protected as long as you believe so. Anyways, if you find yourself in his presence and he has revealed himself, simply ask how he came to be and I guarantee you will receive an answer along the lines of "I am the consciousness of the lambs in the field; I am the force which drives them to the wolf." That's just Baal for ya.

Now, as for another type of negative entity, there can come into existence masses of stored energy created by people themselves (As in a group of 1-3 individuals). This is the typical poltergeist or haunting. Don't get me wrong, it can be nasty, but these are more or less, psuedo-entities. They came into existence through built up negative energy and you can be rid of them simply by willing them away. (Easier said than done.)

For the last entity that I will discuss, I'll refer to the astral. Astral entities range from cute fairy like beings of good that simply help guide people in their travels, to beings that look like faceless vikings that wander aimlessly and pray on stray energy. They are dangerous and can definitely interfere with your travels, sometimes for months at a time.

In conclusion, I think it's about time I make a post on negative entities since it seems to have become a common topic.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 13, 2012, 20:38:23
I have seen a few entities outside of my body that looked rather... I don't know how to explain it. Lots of shadow figures, and they mean no harm at all. I was in sleep paralysis once (PS: I highly recommend reading bedeekins sleep paralysis topic you can find in the "out of body experiences" section in this forum. It's a sticky. Anyway I was in paralysis once and had a figure of a man sitting on my bed looking at me. Very shadow like, couldn't get a facial view. Then I also saw a skinny shadow E.T looking figure walk across my hall. Has anyone seen the movie signs? The birthday party scene where the alien walked across the alleyway? That's exactly what it looked like. I have had mediums say that I have nasty things around me at times, and I have also had mediums say that I have people who are helping me around me. She is a very good person, and medium. She described my grandpa to a T and never even saw him in this physical world when he passed away.

I strongly believe what Majour said though! Yeah I have had experiences where I ran into a few things that were... not so human like. But nothing ever hurt me.  8-)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 13, 2012, 23:52:06
 The only time I encountered negative Astral Beings was during what I figured to be one of the many tests I have experienced in the NPR. This test had to do with recognizing and handling them in a nonviolent way. I must have passed, for they never returned!  :-)
Once in awhile in this Physical Reality I sense a negative energy, but just tell it to go on it's way and it does.
But, I definitely was not always like this. I knew a woman years ago that was convinced and convinced me that there was a Evil presence inhabiting her. I wish I knew what i do now though.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 14, 2012, 00:56:26
Quote from: Bordmb on November 13, 2012, 20:28:43
First allow me to explain that there are many types of negative entities. Some, such as demons, have been given power and even brought into existence by a collective belief in their presence and workings. Baal (Bael) is always my example as I, as well as my family, have had multiple experiences with "him." If you are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with this particular entity, I advise you envision a white light and  know that you are protected as long as you believe so. Anyways, if you find yourself in his presence and he has revealed himself, simply ask how he came to be and I guarantee you will receive an answer along the lines of "I am the consciousness of the lambs in the field; I am the force which drives them to the wolf." That's just Baal for ya.

Now, as for another type of negative entity, there can come into existence masses of stored energy created by people themselves (As in a group of 1-3 individuals). This is the typical poltergeist or haunting. Don't get me wrong, it can be nasty, but these are more or less, psuedo-entities. They came into existence through built up negative energy and you can be rid of them simply by willing them away. (Easier said than done.)

For the last entity that I will discuss, I'll refer to the astral. Astral entities range from cute fairy like beings of good that simply help guide people in their travels, to beings that look like faceless vikings that wander aimlessly and pray on stray energy. They are dangerous and can definitely interfere with your travels, sometimes for months at a time.

In conclusion, I think it's about time I make a post on negative entities since it seems to have become a common topic.

And here I was thinking Bedeekin had given me all the answers lol. You approach this from a demonologist point of view which is great since I used that in some of examples.. What Bedeekin and Majour said makes sense when I think about it.. But if you are correct and demons are a type of negative entity.. Then i wnder if they will ever be anything other than that... Were they created for a purpose and will they always be the way they are or could they ever raise there vibration and evolve? I think nobody really knows..

I also wonder though.. It seems there must be a limited number of these demons since you mentioned one by name and it seems that is a recurring thing.. As there are records going way back with accounts of the same names over and over. These things either came from source for some purpose we dont understand, dont exist as we describe them, or have come into existance from a process of a spirit devolving for some reason.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 14, 2012, 00:58:25
Quote from: AstralCody on November 13, 2012, 20:38:23
I have seen a few entities outside of my body that looked rather... I don't know how to explain it. Lots of shadow figures, and they mean no harm at all. I was in sleep paralysis once (PS: I highly recommend reading bedeekins sleep paralysis topic you can find in the "out of body experiences" section in this forum. It's a sticky. Anyway I was in paralysis once and had a figure of a man sitting on my bed looking at me. Very shadow like, couldn't get a facial view. Then I also saw a skinny shadow E.T looking figure walk across my hall. Has anyone seen the movie signs? The birthday party scene where the alien walked across the alleyway? That's exactly what it looked like. I have had mediums say that I have nasty things around me at times, and I have also had mediums say that I have people who are helping me around me. She is a very good person, and medium. She described my grandpa to a T and never even saw him in this physical world when he passed away.

I strongly believe what Majour said though! Yeah I have had experiences where I ran into a few things that were... not so human like. But nothing ever hurt me.  8-)

I feel like if you were in sleep paralysis when you saw these entities, its very possible your mind created them.. Especially since you watched signs before that lol. But yeah, that sounds a little disturbing.. I personally thusfar have never experienced sleep paralysis, not sure why... I just always am able to break out of it.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 14, 2012, 01:49:10
Absolutely! I forgot to mention that in my above post. I'm sure my subconscious was hard at work like it always is.  :lol: You will find that you tend to create a lot... It's actually kind of neat. Things manifest very fast in the astral just by you thinking of them instantly. That's why I think if someone does believe in demons... they WILL see demons because they are creating it most likely.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Contenteo on November 14, 2012, 03:13:13
'Demons' is giving 'them' too much credit.

Most incidents are a manifestation of your emotions and intentions.

In F23 there are a lot of pretty lonely entities that can exude a whole myriad of attitudes.
From what I have experienced and read many times on this forum is things can get pretty crazy/weird if you find yourself landed in one of these areas of F23.

I mean, if you were stuck in your own reality for what seems like an eternity, you could end up being pretty weird yourself. In some cases frightening as well.

I wouldn't worry too much, time has proven itself to be a pretty reliable vector. I think its safe to assume it's a pretty one-way street.


Cheers,
Contenteo
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 14, 2012, 03:25:25
Quote from: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 19:42:57
I have found alot of documented cases where people were having a haunting in their home that turned somehow physical where they felt burning on their back, took photos or had a camera rolling during a paranormal investigation, and found that their back had materialized scratches on them.
Wow, those are some scary Demons. They can come here and create burning sensations, scratches and show themselves on camera and yet I constantly read posts here about people going to the Astral to literally kick axx or people that go to the Astral just to to control others. So why are they any worse than some of us? There are some people here that kill and dismember people, I haven't heard of any Demons doing that here in the Physical yet.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 14, 2012, 23:49:11
Quote from: Lionheart on November 14, 2012, 03:25:25
Wow, those are some scary Demons. They can come here and create burning sensations, scratches and show themselves on camera and yet I constantly read posts here about people going to the Astral to literally kick axx or people that go to the Astral just to to control others. So why are they any worse than some of us? There are some people here that kill and dismember people, I haven't heard of any Demons doing that here in the Physical yet.

Hey Lionheart. I have actually experienced these scratches before. Many times. I will never forget I was watching ghost hunters and I felt a raging burn on my middle back. It was an annoying feeling. Kind of hurt... not really. So I got home, and looked in mirror and saw 3 deep scratch marks. They were extremely deep. I couldn't make sense of it... I felt no harm or anything. It happened a lot after that. I have no explanation for them but I remember I got super sick of it and it would stress me out to the point where I would feel it and I would get mad. I used to be scratched all the time. I don't know why... I have no explanation for it.  :| I don't anymore though. It seemed to only happen when I was living at a particular house but who knows. An interesting point though, is that I had no animals at the time. I also read that if you eat crackers in bed and the crumbs get on your sheets and then you lay down it can happen too. Which is interesting because I did that a lot. Except for a few times when I was sitting down watching TV or what not. I always got 3 deep scratch marks. It wasn't scary to me... it was actually interesting. It happened a lot when I used to do EVP work. Who knows what caused this though.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 16:09:39
Quote from: Lionheart on November 14, 2012, 03:25:25
Wow, those are some scary Demons. They can come here and create burning sensations, scratches and show themselves on camera and yet I constantly read posts here about people going to the Astral to literally kick axx or people that go to the Astral just to to control others. So why are they any worse than some of us? There are some people here that kill and dismember people, I haven't heard of any Demons doing that here in the Physical yet.

I am not quite sure what point you were trying to make with this Lionheart, but I doubt any demon has the power to be able to dismember people as you mentioned. Yes, humans are much more able to do these things as they are in the physical and we are talking about physical injuries, and there are alot of horrible people in the world just like there are negative entities or lower entities in the astral.

I just wonder if these demons or lower astral entities came from a human who led a horrible life murdering people etc, Charles Manson, for example and then died and became a lower entity not able to reincarnate cause of the bad actions they took in life... Or if the demon/lower entity encarnated into human form and became that person like Manson. Kind of a chicken or egg type of thing I suppose.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 16:13:11
Quote from: AstralCody on November 14, 2012, 23:49:11
Hey Lionheart. I have actually experienced these scratches before. Many times. I will never forget I was watching ghost hunters and I felt a raging burn on my middle back. It was an annoying feeling. Kind of hurt... not really. So I got home, and looked in mirror and saw 3 deep scratch marks. They were extremely deep. I couldn't make sense of it... I felt no harm or anything. It happened a lot after that. I have no explanation for them but I remember I got super sick of it and it would stress me out to the point where I would feel it and I would get mad. I used to be scratched all the time. I don't know why... I have no explanation for it.  :| I don't anymore though. It seemed to only happen when I was living at a particular house but who knows. An interesting point though, is that I had no animals at the time. I also read that if you eat crackers in bed and the crumbs get on your sheets and then you lay down it can happen too. Which is interesting because I did that a lot. Except for a few times when I was sitting down watching TV or what not. I always got 3 deep scratch marks. It wasn't scary to me... it was actually interesting. It happened a lot when I used to do EVP work. Who knows what caused this though.

Cody, I thought you were joking for most of this post but I think you are serious now. I just read "Ghost Hunters" and kind of laughed cause I feel like that is one of the shows that is faked alot more than others. And then the crackers in bed thing I don't quite understand.. other than dropping crumbs in the bed then rolling around in your sleep and the crumbs causing abrasions on your skin, why would it cause scratches? I think that is what you meant unless there is a more paranormal cause for it. But I am glad to hear from someone who has actually experienced it.. very strange. Sometimes I find scratches on myself that I can't explain but I always just chalk it up to something I did in my sleep.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 16:53:01
Skin is firmly attached to your intent... like I said.. most skin complaints can be treated with placebos... like I said... look at stigmatas... how they can manifest as either on the wrist or on the palms (depending on your knowledge of how they crucified people versus how they depicted it in biblical paintings).

Scratches.. blemishes.. rashes... bruises and most derma based 'things' can be manifested by the power of intent and/or belief.

I am so sorry if this is a rational explanation.  :-(
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 17:11:06
Actually... I'll rephrase that... It's not a rational explanation in the normal rational science sense. It's something science doesn't know as to why it happens.

It's actually wonderful. Because it means you can positively influence your skin or entire body with intent.

I meant I was sorry it wasn't demons or astral monsters of some sort.  :-)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 17:18:53
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 17:11:06
Actually... I'll rephrase that... It's not a rational explanation in the normal rational science sense. It's something science doesn't know as to why it happens.

It's actually wonderful. Because it means you can positively influence your skin or entire body with intent.

I meant I was sorry it wasn't demons or astral monsters of some sort.  :-)

It helps to know who you are directing it towards.. I maintain a stance that I do not know the cause of these things... I'm not saying it is demons or it isn't so you don't have to be sorry cause you going against anything I said or believe. I think that explaination makes alot of sense and I am very familiar with experiments in hypnosis and how they have proven that the mind can affect the skin and other parts of the body. I just wonder how AstralCody could be getting all the scratches and burns if he wasn't willing himself to receive them. Atleast consciously, of course it could of been subconscious but that's hard to prove I suppose unless he REEALLY loves Ghost Hunters and gets super into it when he is watching it to the point where his mind begins to manefest those things. (Sorry Cody :)

But what I like is that there are two schools of thought and experience on this subject in this thread.. some saying Demons are very real, others saying that it is the mind.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 17:37:18
I'm directing it towards those who think that skin blemishes and scratches are a direct influence of an 'astral entity' other than 'self'... not you specifically.  :-)

"But what I like is that there are two schools of thought and experience on this subject in this thread.. some saying Demons are very real, others saying that it is the mind."

I don't particularly like it but I find it interesting.

That there are those that believe in Demons and get actively pursued/attacked... and those that don't and neither get pursued or attacked.

It's like... A really hypothetical thought experiment... 

imagine that two people meet in the nonphysical.... one is a demon 'believer' the other isn't... They are floating along maybe heading to a specific target point.. and suddenly believer gets attacked by a 4th dimensional howler from the plane of Id!

Does the nonbeliever see believer acting mental.. swiping an unseen force?
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Contenteo on November 15, 2012, 17:42:51
QuoteBut what I like is that there are two schools of thought and experience on this subject in this thread.. some saying Demons are very real, others saying that it is the mind.

I think that there is a deeper truth in play here.

The opposite of a fact is usually a falsehood.
However, the opposite of a profound thought is often another profound thought.

Cheers,
Contenteo
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 17:57:01
Maybe it's a simple thing... like... my grandma has never been to a nasty underground bar ran by the Russian mafia in Prague and seen the nasty, dingy  underworld of the european drug cartel scene... yet I have. (when working on Wanted in Prague by the way... not because I was an international drug dealer! :-D )

So our experiences differ in that I did because I was hanging around in places like that and she didn't because she was a lovely innocent old lady who lived in a little home tucked away in rural england.

Although all said and done.. It is projected belief and fear I am sure. I'm a non-demonite.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 18:14:39
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 15, 2012, 17:37:18


I don't particularly like it but I find it interesting.



Yes I should rephrase that as well.. I don't "like" it necessarily I just find it interesting. It would be easier if everyone believed one thing but less interesting I think. :)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 18:18:33
Quote from: Contenteo on November 15, 2012, 17:42:51
I think that there is a deeper truth in play here.

The opposite of a fact is usually a falsehood.
However, the opposite of a profound thought is often another profound thought.

Cheers,
Contenteo

That's WAY too deep for me lol.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: majour ka on November 15, 2012, 20:24:55
I often wonder whats going on with people when they think they are being attacked or going to be attacked by "Demons" I mean why them? Why not a priest or a healer or monk, Nun, or someone who is directly apposing their supposed satanic way of life or what ever you want to imagine it is they stand for lol

Its all fiction  :evil:
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bordmb on November 15, 2012, 23:18:55
Allow me to add another perspective to this, please, for all of the people that truly believe demons do not exist.

Have you ever had a conversation with someone who truly believed AP was completely false? They say things such as, "It's all in your head," or, "Ha, you just want attention," or even," It's only because you're tricking your brain."

They say this because they haven't experienced it and therefore they rely on what they have heard from others, and as this is their only source of information and, after all, we are human, they tend to lean more towards the ideas that clash the least with their own preconceived notions.

Apply this to negative entities and most of you are just as close minded as those people. I hope none of you ever have to deal with this, but yes, demons are real. I'll put it bluntly since I feel I've already explained my viewpoint in previous posts. You're naive to think otherwise and quite frankly, I'm getting fed up with the way this board treats those that believe or have experienced demons.

PS: Yeah, demons have caused deaths and disfigured people. Ask a priest with experience or research it yourself. There is even a case, as recorded by a skeptic, a bystander, and an exorcist, where a woman started speaking in multiple voices at the same time, broke both of her wrists because she was restrained, and then an object flew across the room and struck the priest performing the exorcism in the back of the head resulting in a concussion. Have you ever been into space? No. Does that mean that people going into space is just a load of BS? No.

I'm sorry for the rant, but I got myself worked up.

Not to mention that saying 'people that believe get attacked/pursued and the people that don't believe are fine' is simply logic. If someone doesn't believe, but then they get attacked or have an experience, of course they will believe then!
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 16, 2012, 00:03:46
Quote from: Astral-Trea on November 15, 2012, 16:09:39
I am not quite sure what point you were trying to make with this Lionheart, but I doubt any demon has the power to be able to dismember people as you mentioned. Yes, humans are much more able to do these things as they are in the physical and we are talking about physical injuries, and there are alot of horrible people in the world just like there are negative entities or lower entities in the astral.
The point I am trying to make is we as humans do far worse than any Demon can do here. Demons are glamorized by movies and TV. People are taught fear, fear, fear. They talk about Demons scratching them or showing up in a Seance. They talk about seeing a Demon walk by. But they never talk about the fact that they themselves are still healthy, alive and kicking, even after their confrontations. Most people that talk about Demons are the ones that are looking for interaction with them.
Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true!  :wink:
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 16, 2012, 00:25:01
 Bordmb, when I was 18 years old I feared all these things. Demons, Zombies, Ghosts, everything that TV and the movies taught me to fear. As I grew older, I researched this from all angles. Like I said earlier in this thread, I had someone very close to me, someone that almost became my wife try to convince me and herself that she was possessed. A couple of drinks and she became an angry monster. She told me how her ex husband used to pin her down and inject her with heroin. How she turned to the Necrinomicon for help. The only real Demon in the entire scenario was her ex husband. Any man that would pin a woman down and inject her against her will is a real monster, not a fake Hollywood one. Kathy also displayed unusual strength for her size during her tantrums, she growled, through obscenities at everyone within here reach. She even had a Psychologist convinced there was something else going on here.  Living with her easily turned to hell. I never knew who I was going to be with. Kathy the loving lady or this thing that was supposedly inside of her. Years later we found out the truth. She was diagnosed with having a very low tendency for alcohol, to the fact that it became an allergy. This was the sole cause of the Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde scenario. But, we didn't know this at first and reacted to it like it was a real possession, which just fed the problem further.

Sometimes I don't know what people on this site want us to say. We get people coming here to share their fears, but the last thing they want to hear is sensible explanation for what is happening. It's just like the saying "Misery loves company". We try to bring people a more rational way of looking at things.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 00:35:12
Quote from: Lionheart on November 16, 2012, 00:03:46
The point I am trying to make is we as humans do far worse than any Demon can do here. Demons are glamorized by movies and TV. People are taught fear, fear, fear. They talk about Demons scratching them or showing up in a Seance. They talk about seeing a Demon walk by. But they never talk about the fact that they themselves are still healthy, alive and kicking, even after their confrontations. Most people that talk about Demons are the ones that are looking for interaction with them.
Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true!  :wink:

Just for the record to get it out there.. I have absolutely NO desire to ever see, be around, or experience in any way,  a demon whether they exist or not.. Have to say that so that your last statement doesnt jinx me lol :)

This question/topic, is just an attempt to get different opinions on a subject I have no experience with and is part of my awakening process.. Kind of just trying to understand all I can about the universe and beyond.

Also let me just say that I personally am not going to say anyone is right or wrong here and I welcome all opinions. I am not qualified to give a definate opinion because like I say, I have no experience with this particular part of the supernatural.  :D
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 16, 2012, 00:53:10
Hey! Caught up on the reading here haha. There was many other times when I was scratched and never watched ghost shows. Walking... I would feel a super bad burn on my back. Sometimes I would feel it in my house and literally watch it form in the mirror. Some of them really burned bad.

Bedeekin has a solid point though... Everyone does. Personally I never experienced anything evil to me. I found the scratches rather interesting.

Another thing about those ghost shows is I do believe they are real. #1 because of the EVP'S. I do them all the time and have gotten shockingly clear voices to talk back to me. Thing is though on those shows... There's bloopers etc and one thing that makes me mad is if they hear a bump they automatically go... OH NOZ!  :lol: But yeah! To be honest I really don't know. I just go off my experiences and take it from there.

Hope that helped man
-Cody
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 16, 2012, 01:11:41
 Why is it the ghosts/spirits only show up at night, when it's completely dark in the room and they are using infrared cameras. Are they on some type of schedule? No, it's because of sensationalism.
Bordmb's recent post about priests brought back a time when I was in North Dakota as a merchant at the North Dakota State fair in Minot, ND. My neighbors were a couple of priests that were at the show to "save" people. They looked like a couple of nice guys, we introduced ourselves and everything was fine until I heard their spiel. They had a black box on the table that was covered with a black felt cloth. It said "Have You Been Saved Today" on a sign over the box. The priests would then talk to the kids and say look in the box, then they would bring them in the back of the booth and talk to them. It seemed innocent enough, until my curiosity was too much for me and I had to see in the box. I looked inside and to my horror there was small doll like model, stripped of all it's skin and burning in flames. It said "This is what happens to you if you are not saved". I then listened in as the priests told the kids horror stories. I'm sorry but my God would be a God of love. My God wouldn't need to rule by fear. They were scaring and scarring these kids into submission. That is just not appropriate at all and I told them exactly how I felt about that. These guys had been sent by the Church to teach the word of God. Somewhere along the line they lost the ability to listen to him themselves.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 01:19:34
Quote from: AstralCody on November 16, 2012, 00:53:10
Hey! Caught up on the reading here haha. There was many other times when I was scratched and never watched ghost shows. Walking... I would feel a super bad burn on my back. Sometimes I would feel it in my house and literally watch it form in the mirror. Some of them really burned bad.

Bedeekin has a solid point though... Everyone does. Personally I never experienced anything evil to me. I found the scratches rather interesting.

Another thing about those ghost shows is I do believe they are real. #1 because of the EVP'S. I do them all the time and have gotten shockingly clear voices to talk back to me. Thing is though on those shows... There's bloopers etc and one thing that makes me mad is if they hear a bump they automatically go... OH NOZ!  :lol: But yeah! To be honest I really don't know. I just go off my experiences and take it from there.

Hope that helped man
-Cody

I have to post this now LMAO.. You probably have seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYL5YQi3lM&sns=em
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 16, 2012, 01:32:51
Quote from: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 01:19:34
I have to post this now LMAO.. You probably have seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYL5YQi3lM&sns=em

LOOOOL!

That just made my night. That's the point I was trying to get across too! It's the same with all of them... This guy on ghost adventures "Which to me those guys are... :roll: The material (some of it) might be real but on every episode you hear them scream and drop their cameras and run and stuff lol. To me that's just nonsense. I can tell you thought that EVP's are indeed real. I been doing them for a few years now. But yes... That video was exactly what I was trying to say.  :lol:

Lionheart- That just makes me blah... That's why I do not do good with religion in any form. It's just like my scratches. Was it evil? I felt no evil... I took a more scientific approach. I was not scared at all, but it did upset me at times because I was confused... and 3 deep scratches that you can actually watch form in a mirror was a slight weird to say the least. Along with a red mark all around it. Like I said though. I don't automatically go "DEMONS!" How would I know? Like I said I go off what I experience. But the whole religion thing is... yeah. I had a group of people come to my door once and told me to take these god pamphlets or I would go to hell. (Something about the second coming) I took them and through them in the trash when I shut the door lol. 
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 06:50:53
The worst thing that these hauntings or 'demons' seem to do is throw little stones and knock on the walls etc.

Quote from: Bordmb on November 15, 2012, 23:18:55
Allow me to add another perspective to this, please, for all of the people that truly believe demons do not exist.

Have you ever had a conversation with someone who truly believed AP was completely false? They say things such as, "It's all in your head," or, "Ha, you just want attention," or even," It's only because you're tricking your brain."

They say this because they haven't experienced it and therefore they rely on what they have heard from others, and as this is their only source of information and, after all, we are human, they tend to lean more towards the ideas that clash the least with their own preconceived notions.

Apply this to negative entities and most of you are just as close minded as those people. I hope none of you ever have to deal with this, but yes, demons are real. I'll put it bluntly since I feel I've already explained my viewpoint in previous posts. You're naive to think otherwise and quite frankly, I'm getting fed up with the way this board treats those that believe or have experienced demons.


Closed minded? Come on... are you really pulling that one? Have you actually read what we generally talk about?

I personally am sorry for not believing in something that doesn't exist... it seems to upset those who do. I just don't want to waste my time getting wrapped up in these things.. it's counter productive for personal development and the improvement of conscious evolution. It's actually devolution.

We.. want to point out that it isn't worth the effort... yet you want to point out that we should be... Why? What possible benefit to anyone can the belief in evil demons or the devil be? What does it achieve?

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: AstralCody on November 16, 2012, 07:04:34
Bedeekins right. I just wanted to throw my two cents in here with my whole phenomena thing. I found it interesting
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: majour ka on November 16, 2012, 12:12:50
Quote from: Astral-Trea on November 13, 2012, 19:17:24
Very interesting.. so would that mean that everyone starts out as a low astral entity, then somehow eventually begins to encarnate and reincarnate when they reach a certain level on the spirit plane? And I guess also if in a life, you develop inner demons, maybe you murder and rape women, etc etc.. then when you die you will go down in vibration and have to work your way back up?

In this example, it almost brings into play the Hell beliefs... some people say hell doesnt exist which I believe is true.. but we create our on hell maybe? If that is true, then there would be punishment in this way for doing bad things in life, and rewards for being good.

Or maybe I am looking at it too 3-dimensionally..

Hi well, I don't know about reincarnation although that is a personal belief that makes sense to me...and neither do I know how we might compare at what level we are initially born. But I am passing on what was told me by intelligent and evolved spirit people who live there in that world we are discussing.  So I guess they know something about all this. They also told us that they don't use the word evil to describe anyone one in the spirit world since that would then imply that evil had an inherent existence in self, since it only exists in the mind and has no reality in the sense that we are investigating here. Only peoples light is bright or less bright. And yes we create our own hell here now in our minds im certain of that. I understand from the spirit people and what we have just talked about points to this also that we create our experience of the next life by how we lie our lives and evolve or not here. SO go forth and raise the power of your light my friends  :-)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 12:55:49
Lets all just respect each others beliefs.. if you believe in something someone else says is fiction.. just say your piece on it and leave it be. If what you said resonates with that person, it won't require any further arguing or convincing. If not, then you would have never been able to convince them anyway so it doesnt matter. I am open minded to the point where I can see things from most points of view objectively, but even I, like others on here, have caught myself saying someone is wrong and that what I am saying is right.. which I shouldn't do.

We should try to remember that we are not discussing something such as "orange's are the color orange when mature," which would be a fact that really couldn't be argued much. This is all stuff that is in a major grey area and different people experience it apparently in alot of different ways. I sometimes think it is good because when you get a variety of different experiences, even when they contradict each other, you have alot more evidence and things to base your conclusion on.. rather than just having one side of the coin. Nobody should be sorry for their opinion.

I tend to agree though, that fear based opinions are not productive and if one is given, I usually just recognize it as that and shy away from it.

I think Xanth once wrote something like "Your truth is not necessarily my truth."
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 15:12:55
I just want to know why people want there to be Demons and nasty spirits. That's my confusion.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 15:34:46
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 15:12:55
I just want to know why people want there to be Demons and nasty spirits. That's my confusion.

I don't think anyone WANTS there to be Demons and such.. I think just some people feel strongly that they exist and others feel strongly that they do not. For example, I do not WANT cancer to exist.. but it does exist... and I know that it does because of personal experience with it in my family.. so if someone came back and said it doesn't exist.. then I would probably have things to say to the contrary. This of course as I posted before, is one of the factual examples that differs from this which there is no proof one way or the other.

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 17:02:14
It's along the same lines as people getting irate if you don't believe in the 2012 Armageddon/prophecy/niburu thing... it's like they want it to happen for some bizarre reason. Maybe it's a romanticising type thing. They romanticise about there being this mass change in whatever way. But the reality of it would have them wishing on the other side of their face.

Maybe to discount demons as a reality automatically discounts all other biblical connotations.

But most people who do believe in demons tend to recount 3rd hand stories of possession and exorcism... 'there was this priest who..." "I heard of this time when..."

Whereas we (I mean those who are 'experienced' in nonphysical exploration) have first hand accounts... multiple times... running into thousands... that don't experience these things. I think that sometimes... maybe sometimes... belief can be overshadowed by experiential evidence. Is that an obtuse statement or does 'experience' not count for anything these days?

I am personally not wanting to get MY belief across and MAKE people see my point of view... I am basically trying to say 'look... just forget about demons... they are pointless to consider because there is so much MORE out/in there to experience" not that they are stupid for believing it. :-)

I went through some of the most vicious and horrendous Sleep Paralysis episodes when I was younger.. .I thought they were real. I spent months trying to come to terms with it. But after repeated exposure I realised that they can't be real or harmful... just by process of elimination. I then learned how to have OOBEs from SP and after that didn't experience the fear anymore.




Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Astral-Trea on November 16, 2012, 17:09:55
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 17:02:14
It's along the same lines as people getting irate if you don't believe in the 2012 Armageddon/prophecy/niburu thing... it's like they want it to happen for some bizarre reason. Maybe it's a romanticising type thing. They romanticise about there being this mass change in whatever way. But the reality of it would have them wishing on the other side of their face.

Maybe to discount demons as a reality automatically discounts all other biblical connotations.

But most people who do believe in demons tend to recount 3rd hand stories of possession and exorcism... 'there was this priest who..." "I heard of this time when..."

Whereas we (I mean those who are 'experienced' in nonphysical exploration) have first hand accounts... multiple times... running into thousands... that don't experience these things. I think that sometimes... maybe sometimes... belief can be overshadowed by experiential evidence. Is that an obtuse statement or does 'experience' not count for anything these days?

I am personally not wanting to get MY belief across and MAKE people see my point of view... I am basically trying to say 'look... just forget about demons... they are pointless to consider because there is so much MORE out/in there to experience" not that they are stupid for believing it. :-)

I went through some of the most vicious and horrendous Sleep Paralysis episodes when I was younger.. .I thought they were real. I spent months trying to come to terms with it. But after repeated exposure I realised that they can't be real or harmful... just by process of elimination. I then learned how to have OOBEs from SP and after that didn't experience the fear anymore.






I agree... at this point.. I'd like to focus more on the better parts of the spirit world which I think is most of it :D
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Lionheart on November 16, 2012, 23:58:27
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 17:02:14
It's along the same lines as people getting irate if you don't believe in the 2012 Armageddon/prophecy/niburu thing... it's like they want it to happen for some bizarre reason. Maybe it's a romanticising type thing. They romanticise about there being this mass change in whatever way. But the reality of it would have them wishing on the other side of their face.

Maybe to discount demons as a reality automatically discounts all other biblical connotations.

But most people who do believe in demons tend to recount 3rd hand stories of possession and exorcism... 'there was this priest who..." "I heard of this time when..."

Whereas we (I mean those who are 'experienced' in nonphysical exploration) have first hand accounts... multiple times... running into thousands... that don't experience these things. I think that sometimes... maybe sometimes... belief can be overshadowed by experiential evidence. Is that an obtuse statement or does 'experience' not count for anything these days?

I am personally not wanting to get MY belief across and MAKE people see my point of view... I am basically trying to say 'look... just forget about demons... they are pointless to consider because there is so much MORE out/in there to experience" not that they are stupid for believing it. :-)

I went through some of the most vicious and horrendous Sleep Paralysis episodes when I was younger.. .I thought they were real. I spent months trying to come to terms with it. But after repeated exposure I realised that they can't be real or harmful... just by process of elimination. I then learned how to have OOBEs from SP and after that didn't experience the fear anymore.
I wish that every caller on Coast to Coast AM was told this exact thing. But then there wouldn't be a show!  :wink:
I can't tell you how many times I hear people talking about waking in the middle of the night with a Demon holding them down or some other fear based scenario. I sit here at home practically screaming inside, "It's SP and it's completely natural".
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bordmb on November 17, 2012, 00:42:19
Bedeekin, this will be my last reply to you, and quite possibly my last visit to AP.

You mentioned that you always hear 3rd person accounts and what not, well if you're so interested in why some have such strong beliefs, I'll share one of my experiences.

A friend of mine, whom I shall refer to as Dan, came to my home. Now Dan was the type of person that was always hooked on some new drug and was addicted to meth, as well as, heroin. Of course he had come to me in order to get money for more drugs. Anyways, he entered my living room and I suddenly became aware of another presence, probably due to the notable drop in temperature within the room that even caused my heat to kick on (set at 50 degrees for the cold nights when it was 65-70 degrees outside during the day.) After talking for a few minutes, I began to get upset for no apparent reason, which isn't uncommon considering I have fairly strong empathetic abilities. About this time, I noticed Dan seemed to be devoid of color, not unlike the white someone turns before they pass out, and he was mumbling incoherently. The room got dark, very dark, as if I were getting severe tunnel vision, until finally it disappeared from my view all together. Needless to say, this was frightening, but before I had time to rationalize, a light appeared behind, brighter than anything you can imagine. These beings brought with them an unearthly chill that penetrated Dan and me to the core. This light illuminated up to a point right behind Dan, at which point, I saw them... the "demons." They often hide themselves in their own, self made darkness, especially around beings of light. This, again, is a darkness beyond what we consider black, its close to the "3D blackness" we often refer to. Dan never remembered anything past the light showing up and feeling extreme heat and I don't remember anything after seeing the "demons." I "woke up" three days later laying 5 miles deep in the woods outside my house with no shirt, no shoes, and only gym shorts on. I had bruises and scrapes, most related to wandering in a forest for three days. However, completely unexplainable, even by the medical team at UAB (hospital), I had 4 deep slashes that looked as if they had been cauterized and the medical team said they were healed so much that it must have been at least two weeks old by the time I got to the hospital. Dan ended up going missing for a little over a week and just showed back up at his house one day like nothing had happened, except for the fact that he was missing part of his ear (Same deal as with my slash marks) and had 3 distinct bald patches that were bloody. He didn't want to talk about it, but about a month after he showed up, we had a deep conversation about everything. That was the last time I ever talked to Dan. He was found dead the next morning by his sister who was worried about him not showing up to their breakfast plans. Police said it was a natural, but undetermined death. No autopsy performed.

I dare you to try to say I willed those marks on my skin. Did I burn my wounds too? Did Dan will away part of his ear? What was I afraid of during a regular, waking day that caused me to go temporarily blind and over 72 hours of amnesia? Did I, completely sober and awake at the time, simply dream this all up?

No, and that's why I believe that demons are real. That's why I've done my research, and that's why, quite frankly, it pisses me off the way you try to discredit what others believe and belittle them.

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 17, 2012, 07:44:28
Fair enough.  :-)
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Mr.Flip on November 20, 2012, 23:41:33
Quote from: Bordmb on November 17, 2012, 00:42:19
I dare you to try to say I willed those marks on my skin. Did I burn my wounds too? Did Dan will away part of his ear? What was I afraid of during a regular, waking day that caused me to go temporarily blind and over 72 hours of amnesia? Did I, completely sober and awake at the time, simply dream this all up?

No, and that's why I believe that demons are real. That's why I've done my research, and that's why, quite frankly, it pisses me off the way you try to discredit what others believe and belittle them.

belittle? honestly whether or not ur account is true or false, the truth is if some thing can be so good then what is the lack of good?

"demons" is the term we will use for these beings for now. For Trea Vibration u nailed it!
everything or almost everything has a vibration frequency to specfiy its self, like an adress for a house
although since ive never seen a demon, i cant say its a vibration, but! Light is also how a signature can project itself,
bordmb's right on the fact that some beings have less light than others but its really rare IRONICALLY, bedeekin has a point u usually see the living trying to idolize or romanticize, and it usual always ends up in a bar bathroom with ur pants off down and blood on ur shirt in bum frunk scottland or waking up drunk next to a fat guy in a who gives a squirt mississippi

like i said i havent encountered one and why would i want to?
Demons HA what about Greed, Vanity, Sloth, Jealousy, Lust, Envy, Pride
now these beings these will mess with you
bordmb's tale is just another example of why we must breaks our barriers, his friend more than likely had a complex relationship with these entities leading him to Negative Times and Spaces, eventually through probability and mathematical law, wrong place wrong time =/

you had a choice whether or not to keep associating yourself to him as a friend and yes sometimes what a friend should do is keep close and at others he should separate to show a signature of righteousness, which then leaves his friend in a pending desicion, whether or not to change his negative input in order to project a positive output

that is what you get when you deal with demons, i bet there are cases where the victims have done nothing wrong their whole lives and end up having to engage with beings, it happens all the time even in real life its called Crime!
just today on the radio here locally they were talking to a man who just recovered from being stabbed in chest by another man, who just got done robbing and stabbing another man seconds before him,
average young fellow no more past 30 late 20s just workin at the bar in a nice hotel in downtown chicago right by the john hanncock building, heres a cry for help! stop that man!, all he was doing was his job assisting the customer, victim 1 was just having dinner by the way when he went to the bathroom and bow it a robbery,
the young fellow hears the shout and sees a man walking out the door suspicious figure going out the revolving door passing guests and kids, he goes out to get him into the crowded street and catching up another shout from behind the young man and then the suspect turns, and lunges towards him knocking him down,

Arrested 69 times, more than 3 felonies, and homeless age 56, =/ life
and thats not mentioning the pending trial goin here of the lady who murdered her baby and another child whom she was babysitting for someone else

yes, i believe people can plague theirselves with thoughts and mis conconseption to decieve themselves, call it schizophrenia, possesion, delusion, or any other mental disorder, it starts with a state of being Evil and then its the Devil himself
the true definition of devil is to give up your own will to another external force
your god given right to have a choice, at times it is ignorance other stubborness, it's in many forms,

When you see them u will know it just how u will know when you see your Father

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 21, 2012, 02:06:12
Are you personifying crime and immoral deeds? Are you anthropomorphising bad decisions and actions?
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: ChopstickFox on November 22, 2012, 01:10:42
My opinion is that there is so much we don't understand out there... I just focus on the positive :3

But saying mental disorders are the presence of the devil? I dunno, maybe I read that post wrong, but to me that's sounding like we just back in history a few hundred years :/ *growl*
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Mr.Flip on November 22, 2012, 22:33:58
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 21, 2012, 02:06:12
Are you personifying crime and immoral deeds? Are you anthropomorphising bad decisions and actions?

o yes this is very thin ice, i know bedeekin where ur coming from on that response,
i'll admit at times i make the error of incarnating or yes personify certain words or phrases, i do so because almost everytime i explain myself i try to make it easy to understand that even a kidd can compute But! (I end up complicating it even more)

with the seven words of Greed, Vanity, Sloth, Jealousy, Lust, Envy, and Pride, we have concluded these forces exist
these are just forces of human nature that can have major and general influence over human behavior
i guess yeah i do like to give them a face or signature to be able to think about it more practically in the head, easier to remember, i mean what are they???? this is the question of this topic what are demons? well even demons at one point were angels and yes i am going by traditonal christian catholic opinion, lucifer himself was among the highest his name meaning most beautiful/brightest light

has anyone here ever seen hellraiser?
yes i know this is just another horror flick with your average blood and gore, but regardless it states something interesting
to the best of my knowledge when the well hellraiser gang pops out the box, they introduce them selves to the person whom opened the box,
"some have called us demons, some have called us angels, we are beings of further consciousness and experience, we know great Pleasure and great Pain, lol come we have many sites to show you"

Also about the Devil,
a great story and image, is the Tarot Card of the 15 Major arcana, symbolizing the devil
(http://www.spiritualitypathways.com/uploads/1/0/7/2/10722962/7364963.jpg?156)

the man and woman have been hooked to the chains of devil through their own demons of Greed, Vanity, Sloth, Jealousy, Lust, Envy, Pride
he sits their babysitting them, watching them, when ironically enough he has no real power over them
The chains themselves are weak enough to break and not only that the loop around their necks is big enough to slip right off
this card represents the true force itself of giving your own will away to an external force or being, anything you wanna name it, will, life, value, choice

its funny because there aren't actually beings like, jealousy, what is jealousy really?, ask me i'd say its a state of consciousness, something that is experienced,
bogusly enough that movie depicts these figures to be deadly and so does the rest of society, I say its just misunderstood
honestly its hard to understand thats why we have judges, and a whole justice system, (corrupt) anyway crime itself is just the proof that these souls exist.
you have a choice whether or not you want to experience those descions or consequences, whether they be good or bad is another story because we have problems actually defining good or badd, like i said we got a whole sytem for that but life is always news, and you have to use your own knowledge and logic to be able to find the greater good
It suits me personally easier to give these words, terms, some divine ID

honest opinion mental illness is truely tricky grounds when you literally have proof to show that your missing a part of your brain or, certain areas just arent doing their job or are doing something else, how does one experience this? Every feeling is a chemical reaction.. we know thiss for fact, so then could it be said that certain emotions, feelings like jealousy, lust, or greed are nothing but mere results of chemical reaction and if so doesnt that obviously state that there is some divine connection between those chemicals and that outcome? then wouldnt this be physical proof of evil?
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 23, 2012, 07:42:46
I am no longer interested in arguing about demons and religious significance. Nice description and reply... but these discussions are circular and looping.

You believe in a biblical explanation.

I don't.

It's really as simple as that.

I love religious stories... of most religions. The Hindu religion is so colourful.... and so much less sin and guilt ridden. The Mayan religion is amazing... full of spirits that are attributed to nearly every rock, plant, animal and weather-type... the same goes for pagan religions and wicca. Greek mythology... roman... Norse. All have their place within the nonphysical.

Anyway...

The outcome of this is that when exploring the nonphysical you can call on me and others like me to help because after-all... they obviously have no power over us. 
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: desert-rat on November 23, 2012, 11:07:12
I wanted to post this link .  Its by Robert Bruce , he believes in demons and that crossing water will stop them . http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?8549-Psychic-Security-(Robert-Bruce)    It is my understanding that his site got hacked creating some of the problems with the text .       desert rat
p.s. I think there all kind of critters out there ,ghosts , left over energy from humans ,      human made thought forms , demons , elementals , ect.  
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: majour ka on November 23, 2012, 19:17:30
Quote from: Bordmb on November 15, 2012, 23:18:55
Allow me to add another perspective to this, please, for all of the people that truly believe demons do not exist.

Have you ever had a conversation with someone who truly believed AP was completely false? They say things such as, "It's all in your head," or, "Ha, you just want attention," or even," It's only because you're tricking your brain."

They say this because they haven't experienced it and therefore they rely on what they have heard from others, and as this is their only source of information and, after all, we are human, they tend to lean more towards the ideas that clash the least with their own preconceived notions.

Apply this to negative entities and most of you are just as close minded as those people. I hope none of you ever have to deal with this, but yes, demons are real. I'll put it bluntly since I feel I've already explained my viewpoint in previous posts. You're naive to think otherwise and quite frankly, I'm getting fed up with the way this board treats those that believe or have experienced demons.

PS: Yeah, demons have caused deaths and disfigured people. Ask a priest with experience or research it yourself. There is even a case, as recorded by a skeptic, a bystander, and an exorcist, where a woman started speaking in multiple voices at the same time, broke both of her wrists because she was restrained, and then an object flew across the room and struck the priest performing the exorcism in the back of the head resulting in a concussion. Have you ever been into space? No. Does that mean that people going into space is just a load of BS? No.

I'm sorry for the rant, but I got myself worked up.

Not to mention that saying 'people that believe get attacked/pursued and the people that don't believe are fine' is simply logic. If someone doesn't believe, but then they get attacked or have an experience, of course they will believe then!
Possession is a myth.
Sitting to allow another consciousness to blend and share your space is difficult and takes a long time , since our minds automatic response is to reject it as it is opposing natural universal law. I have sat for trance mediumship to allow the spirit people that want to work with me for trance healing, speaking and evidential contact with their loved ones by speaking through and control my movements here for several years. Theres no demons or evil spirits. But there is the human imagination and psychological response to that fear and belief, which could potentially manifest as psychosis as an extreme that may seem like possession. I havent seen any evidance to make me think otherwise. If possessions where real where is the footage ? I sit alone in my house to develop my deeper blend with the spirit world. No problems at all  :-) Love and peace Majour.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Mr.Flip on November 23, 2012, 20:52:16
im not just trying to narrow it down to a specific entity coming from christian perspective (u dont even know if im christian or not), point is here and in china bad is bad and good is good , like i said if these feelings are merely chemical reactions then why is it these beings cant exist, in actual flesh and blood, majour ka's post is also nice because yes one's own mind is powerful enough to posses itself, its called a Lie, a majority of cases out there are just people so dellusional or extremely, well, in a bad state of mind that they become their own possesers

you throw the subject into an automatic conclusion of no, when everyday in life there are perfect exampls of real devils, real demons that need to be dealt with

you too have seen this everyday in the living world
some people are happy and grateful just because and others are angry and bitter, some dont care, and some care but aren't urged at all
others dont believe in such things and search everyday for proof to easy their thoughtful mind, and some believe but ignore it completely and forget about values and respect, morals, other don't and still deny
bible and qur'an stories, are nice stories but they talk about the same thing, if you've never encountered such thing then why cant another be living proof of its existence, some people go their whole lives never being in a conflict, and others just cant seem to get rid of it

its ironic but their is no religion at all they are just all fan clubs of the same force, different parties in a race for your vote!
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: desert-rat on November 23, 2012, 21:26:58
Alister Crowley is said to have summend up a being that he could not fully banish .  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alister_Crowley    He moved and left the being , why mess with them if there not real ?   desert rat
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on November 23, 2012, 23:23:34
Because some people think they are real and so they mess with them?
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Szaxx on December 01, 2012, 21:12:45
If you make a mess, make sure you know how to clean it up.
Wise words.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: desert-rat on December 02, 2012, 11:10:28
"Mess with " may of been a poor choice of words on my part .  It would imply doing something foolish . Crowley may of done a lot of wild things , but for the most part he knew what he was doing .  He summend a being that he could not full banish , so they are real and its best to know what you are doing .  Crowley moved leaving the being behind for some one else to deal with , or maby its still there .  desert rat
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on December 02, 2012, 20:25:21
Reminds me of a Tibetan Tulpa.

"In mysticism, a tulpa is the concept of a being or object which is created through sheer discipline alone. It is a materialized thought that has taken physical form and is usually regarded as synonymous to a thoughtform"
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: desert-rat on December 02, 2012, 20:40:52
All , or most of us create thought forms , or tulpas with out knowing .  I guess you would need to find that being that Crowley summoned , and see if it had a conscious .   It is possable that Crowley did just put some of his energy in to a thought form .  I would think that would be gone by now .   desert rat 
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on December 02, 2012, 20:45:29
They say that Bigfoot is a Tulpa.  Whoever they are.

Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: desert-rat on December 03, 2012, 11:10:49
On big foot http://www.bfro.net/   I have some other ideas .  Thoes that have had close encounters with him/her say he/she smells bad . I dont think a tulpa would have a smell to it . One idea of mine is that big foot is really shape shifting humans .  A few people that know how to shape shift get togher , go out in the woods and form a group of big foots .  desert rat  
p.s. A post started by me on Pavlina on big foot http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/psychic-paranormal/52003-big-foot.html   
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Bedeekin on December 03, 2012, 11:43:20
Haha

Maybe the Bigfoot/sasquatch/abominable snowmen are just an undiscovered species... that my be a little bit more likely than shape-shifting humans.

I'm out on the bigfoot thing. I don't believe nor disbelieve.
Title: Re: Question about lower astral beings and demons.
Post by: Mr.Flip on December 03, 2012, 22:40:04
my theory for that still stands, it was just UDM unidentified drunk man
large animals are living beings too, so that means they can get lost lol and wander off into the unfamiliar territories
Crowley? well not too much i can say there, my 2cents, this being was just another living form of hate, some ppl just never want to give up, consciousness must be weird at that state, mainly just override of angered passion and impulse