Why?

[Neutrino4344]

Why do you guys waste your time with astrological physics and not doing anything more productive like some astral projection!, what is it going to prove and what do you have to prove by going through astral theories instead of having faith in it and just doing it.  How in the world could your soul get out of your body in the sense of it being matter and space as your physical body moves to point a to b,its beyond my comprehension! Your soul is intellect and will, you guys need to have energy and stop this projection that tires you down! that's not going to get you anywhere unless you like wasting energy.Is their any methods on projecting w/ less energy to save some?
I would like some feed back
Thanks!

[mactombs]

[delete]

[Selski]

If you're editing yours Neutrino, mine doesn't make sense, so I'm getting rid of it.

[Gandalf]

Excellent example of a flame, but as its so unintentially amusing, it's worth leaving here!

Selski is right: why should I bother watching what I like, reading what I like or even breathing for that matter... why whould I bother breathing?

Get a life yourself!

Doug

[Kazbadan]

Neutrino, it seems that one wastes lot of time with this, but not as much as you think. Besides, it is very funny. Some people waste time wit computers, others with book...and so on. Speaking about me, i have a social life, a very good one

Really, dont worry. I see your point, maybe you think that we are insane or guys that are wasting life, but we are not. After all, AP is just about 1 hour of our daily lifes (i dont project but is not more than that).

[James S]

Well, Neutrino, you're certainly not the only one who sees little point in astral projection. A number of my (psychic) friends and aquaintences, as well as my wife, see little to no point in it.

Mind you, most of them have come to that conclusion after having experienced it, and simply felt that it is of no benefit to them personally. However, it needs to be noted that many of them meditate deeply, and while they do they go into visions, which is actually a type of astral phasing. They just haven't made the connection yet.

At the very least AP is a bit of harmless expense free fun. Beyond that, it requires techniques that teach people how to calm their minds and bodies, which goes a very long way teaching people to cope with or remove stress form their lives. It also teaches people how to live "consciously", with greater knowledge and awareness of the "bigger picture" around them. Hardly a waste of time!

As to exactly how it affects our soul, I doubt you can really convince anyone of the possible effects AP has on our soul as I doubt you can convince anyone here that you actually know 100% exactly what the soul is and how it integrates with the rest of our being.

Right, so I'm off to go and play with my Xbox and kill something.  


James.

[Neutrino4344]

Well, Neutrino, you're certainly not the only one who sees little point in astral projection. A number of my (psychic) friends and acquaintances, as well as my wife, see little to no point in it.



James S, A.P. does have a point, it teaches self control and it teaches us our spiritual side of existence. This physical body is only a hollow existence that's not completely real, only vague and not the full existence.

[Heather B.]

Why do you guys waste your time with astrological physics and not doing anything more productive like some astral projection!, what is it going to prove and what do you have to prove by going through astral theories instead of having faith in it and just doing it. How in the world could your soul get out of your body in the sense of it being matter and space as your physical body moves to point a to b,its beyond my comprehension! Your soul is intellect and will, you guys need to have energy and stop this projection that tires you down! that's not going to get you anywhere unless you like wasting energy.Is their any methods on projecting w/ less energy to save some?
I would like some feed back
Thanks! Very Happy

What the--    

OK, I read this thread just 2 minutes ago, and this original question by Neutrino was completely different--and did indeed sound like a flame asserting that astral projection was a huge waste of time and why don't all of us get a life!

Just so that no one is confused by the seemingly unrelated replies.

Well, assuming that Neutrino really did intend to ask this latest version of the question (and not just try to make fools of us )...  Um, I'm still not exactly sure what the question is!  "Astrological physics"?  If I'm wasting my time on that, then I must not realize it, because I don't even know what it is.

But seriously, it sounds like the question is why we make efforts to study, understand, and theorize about astral projection---instead of just doing it.  I think that anyone who can just do it is very fortunate.  But for most of us, it takes a lot of effort.  In the course of life, our minds get so programmed against it, our attention so ensnared by the physical, the rational, the artificial.  

Sure, we can just "go with it" for the fun and enjoyment of it.  But it's only natural that we begin to consider it from a more objective perspective.  The hows and whys arise pretty naturally to inquisitive minds.  And it opens up entire new avenues and understanding not only about ourselves, but the entire universe.  Personally, I might not be so intrigued and inspired by this whole enterprise if it weren't for the profound work of people like Robert Monroe, and so many of the posters on these forums.  I love the fact that astral projection is evolving from something mystical and spiritual to something intellectual and scientific.  It makes it a whole lot more appealing to me.  The more we learn about it, the less we have to "have faith" in it, so to speak.  And the more people will come to understand that it's not some kind of occult hocus pocus, but rather a natural ability.

As for the energy concerns... I find that when I practice my phasing, it helps me to relax and sort of "let go" of energy in a way, at least the energy that I invest in the physical world every day.  And when that happens, my mind just sort of naturally drifts away.  I might not always experience a full, conscious projection, but it is a very marked shift in consciousness.  But back in the day, when I tried doing the Out-of-Body stuff, I did find that extremely tiring and frustrating and a waste of time.  But for some people, it's the best way.  There isn't just one way to experience astral projection.  You may just have to find the way that works best for you.  OBE and phasing are the two basic kinds.  You can find tons of information on both here at these forums!

Sorry if I'm not very coherent tonight... but I hope that helps some.  Feel free to ask questions--people here are great about trying to answer them! :mrgreen:

[mactombs]

In the course of life, our minds get so programmed against it, our attention so ensnared by the physical, the rational, the artificial.

This is so true. In fact, I believe this is the precise barrier I encountered in my dream last night (a good interpretation for a lot of the recent entries in my dream journal would be that helper(s) are teaching me to project through dreams).

It is difficult to project, and even if it weren't, there's only so much time in a day you can do it (unless you're a hermit). It's an exciting topic, so when you can't be projecting, what's the next best thing?

As far as wasting energy that could be used to project, I don't think that's really applicable.

[James S]

This physical body is only a hollow existence that's not completely real, only vague and not the full existence.

I'm not having a personal dig at you here Neutrino, as I think you may be saying something here to support your original point, but I have to admit, I'm starting to get a little peeved  with hearing this kind of philosophy.

Our physical body is NOT hollow and vague, just as this reality we're in is NOT an illusion or unreal in any way.

People who say these things need to remember that we are here in these bodies, in this physical world for a reason, and its not to find out how we can best learn ignore them or philosophise them away to some kind of second rate existance.

Our bodies are going to feel real pain if we walk into a real brick wall, no matter how philosophically illusory it is. We need to remember to honour those feelings, love our body and every pleasure and annoyance it gives us.

We chose this existance to live in and experience. We should all make the most of it, be fully aware of it, love and enjoy it!

I guess for that reason, people who choose to spend more time in the astral than the real world, or who become obsessed with it, really are wasting their time, and are missing the point of why we're here.


Ok, I'm happy now. I've had my little rant.  


James.

[Draege]

Whether this was your question or not (I couldn't interpret it that well), this is the question I'm assuming: Why do we waste time talking about APing and not just doing it?

The simple answer to that is this: I have found that your success with APing (or as I like to simply call it.. lucid dreaming) depends heavily upon how much time you spend thinking about it and desiring it. This is one of those create your reality / affirmation linked things. So thinking and talking about it greatly increases your chances of actually DOING IT. Hope that makes sense. Also apart from that, as APing can be so diffilcult to achieve, learning techniques from others gives you more things to try so you can find what personally works for you. Also as these can be such amazing and at the same time perplexing and complicated experiences we like to share them with each other to find common ground and discuss the potential truth to it all.

Also I'd like to share a recent conversation I had in a lucid dream that relates to other posts in this thread. Won't detail the whole dream or conversation, but basically I was told "if its not real why bother doing anything at all?" This struck me on a grand scale because for one thing it was one of the few times I've ever had a seemingly non-expected/non-affected conversation with a character in my dream with which I was even thrown off by what I was told. The wisdom in this is simply that we DO do everything we do when it really all is meaningless isn't it? I mean we don't know what truly is real or not, what truly matters or doesn't. We do things to fill personal needs etc and don't fret the "real" of any of it. APing is no different. All of life is no different. Stop worrying about what's "real". Or to make it simple, I simply say anything you can perceive to be, is real.

[mactombs]

Our physical body is NOT hollow and vague, just as this reality we're in is NOT an illusion or unreal in any way.

Here here, James!

I'd also like to add that I get a little peeved at people saying we're here for certain lessons. I don't think so. I came here to have fun in a certain way, to explore this world from a certain viewpoint.

[NickJW]

If gaining knowledge is a waste of time, then tell me what isn't.
Well, I guess we could be reading the Bible and praying to Jesus instead of astral projecting.
Jesus isn't a waste of time, is it Nuetrino?

[Gandalf]

could be THAT is his secret motive. To get us round to more productive, worthwhile activities, like analysing out of date religious texts, written for a completely different time period, world view and culture, but at the same time desperately trying to twist it and make it fit to today's world in the same way that we could thump a square peg to fit a round whole!



Doug