Removing the Ten Commandments

[Allanon]

quote:We could ignore the whole religious issue and look at the other things this judge has done. He asked if he could put up this monument, he was told no yet he does it anyway. I wonder what kind of judge breaks the laws just to please himself. Next, did he get a building permit to erect this monument? hmm ... Then, this is public property not his own, so why is it that he gets to put whatever he wants on it reguardless of what those above him says? This is his place of work. If I should go to work and put up something that those above me have told me not too I might be lucky to have a job the next day, but you can be sure that whatever it is I put up would be gone.

The judge is trying to answer to a higher authority which is God. He will be rewarded for his testimony and action.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:The judge is trying to answer to a higher authority which is God. He will be rewarded for his testimony and action.

No one knows if there even is a God, Allanon, and you aren't anyone so special that you can tell us yourself, or else you would be known the world over.

What's going to happen is the coast guard for that state is going to be sent in to see to it that the monuments and commandments are removed without much fuss, and the judge probably won't be judging much longer. I don't think the government is going to be pushed around much longer.

[wisp]

This is a sensitive and hot button for me too.

The christian's word's and actions are put under a microscope. The foul things that can be said about the christian faith is awful.

Many outside of christianity are quick to call out hypocrocity about the faith and faithful. Hypocrocity is just as evil whether your a christian or not.

Those who choose to not recognize God is one thing. Those who prey upon the believers of God are something else. Allanon is correct about the wrath of God.  

The bible is a tool to teach one how to think for oneself. Believers are extremely underestimated. And....God will not be mocked.

If only more people can understand the awesome power of God!

A copcat action is taking place in my state by the ACLU regarding the removal of the ten commandments in the same manner. I feel the evil in this whole thing!

[WalkerInTheWoods]

According to the Christain Bible Jesus said to obey the government authorities that rule over you. So really this judge is going against the word of God that he claims to believe in and is not doing the right thing for anyone. In which case it seems that he is only after attention and nothing more, which from an article I read awhile back is not uncommon for this man. If this is something that he truly wishes to do, then he should work within the law to accomplish it.

I have read the Christain Bible many times. []

[Allanon]

quote:This is a sensitive and hot button for me too.

The christian's word's and actions are put under a microscope. The foul things that can be said about the christian faith is awful.

Many outside of christianity are quick to call out hypocrocity about the faith and faithful. Hypocrocity is just as evil whether your a christian or not.

Those who choose to not recognize God is one thing. Those who prey upon the believers of God are something else. Allanon is correct about the wrath of God.

The bible is a tool to teach one how to think for oneself. Believers are extremely underestimated. And....God will not be mocked.

If only more people can understand the awesome power of God!

A copcat action is taking place in my state by the ACLU regarding the removal of the ten commandments in the same manner. I feel the evil in this whole thing!

Nice Reply. The Lord keep you.

[Traveler]

goingslow,
If it were another religion it would not be an issue and it wouldn't be a news item.

There are biggots and hippocrites in all religions, it's not just a christian thing, it's human nature. You seem bent on blaming Christians for everything. I stay in church and follow christianity because the root of Christ's teaching is love. It's also the reason I'm interested in the astral. I don't let people get in the way of my spiritual growth. I understand people leave the church and christianity because someone treated them in a way they shouldn't have been. I've seen it, it's happened where I attend. You have to step back and realize their heart ain't right (the offender) and move on. Love them anyway.

[Novice]

Hmm, interesting turn here. I actually disagree with the last two posts. I personally would not want any icon from any religion within a courthouse. It doesn't matter to me if its the 10 commandments, the Gita, or some other religous text. I would hope that the government would do its best to treat all religions equally. And I do realize that this is a bit of an idealistic hope.

The fact is that we are all human, and thus are all fallable. And while the legal system is far from perfect, it does try to establish an unbiased justice system. However, the people involved in upholding as well as ruling on legal matters are all human as well. And their judgements, regardless of how hard they try (or don't try) to be unbiased, will to some extent be colored based on their own personality/beliefs/experiences. I don't see how you can get around that. (actually I think I may be reiterating what someone earlier posted -- sorry if I am).

But I also don't believe that the government, as a body, should encourage that this take place. My only suggestion here is that by allowing any specific religious icon (be it figure, text, whatever) within a government building gives the impression of favoritism towards that particular religion. Whether that impression is correct or not is a seperate question. In order for the judicial system to treat all people fairly and equally, the representatives of it (like this judge) should do their best to interpret the law without viewing it through 'christian glasses' (or any other religion).

Of course you can then bring up the whole "swearing on the bible" while in court. And barring saying its a remnant from the founding fathers, I have nothing else with which to support its presence there. ANd I think Gandalf mentioned this issue in the UK as well.

My ultimate hope is that in some future time individual religions will fall away and all of humanity will have one universal 'religion' (for lack of a better word). Whether you want to view it as no religion but rather individual spiritual practices or a unifying religion to which all the world belongs is irrelevant to me. So much of this bickering and fighting and segregation is focused on religion. Its a bit ironic if you were to look at the very core or bases of most religions. They all pretty much preach love. But people get so consumed with the differences between the practices, that they "can't see the forest for the trees." If we could just get past this point, imagine what the world would be like then.........

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by greatoutdoors


American politicians seem to be declaring war on Christianity and I can't figure out why. It's scary!

When I was a Christian I thought the same thing. Now that I am no longer one I see things differently. It has nothing to do with any hatred or dislike with Christianity. I just have a broader view now than I once did. I think this idea stems from what most are taught in church, that it is the world against the Christians. For some reason Christians (and I use this in general terms so no offense to anyone) seem to have this desire to have their symbols posted all over, as if they need to mark their territory or something. Any threat to those symbols they take personally as if the person, organization, etc is attacking Christianity and the person. I see now that this is not true. The government is not waging a war against any religion, but instead it is trying to keep equality between them. Some religions such as Christianity have a very out there approach while others are more laid back and do not practice "recruiting". This being the case, Christianity comes up more in the news and such. Christianity and Christians have a lot of freedoms, you just see the negative because that is what is put in the news because that is what sells.

[harlequin_star]

hmmmmm. This is all very interesting. I have friends not christian and they tell me none of this christian ten commandments bother them. One of my friends is polytheistic, so she just changes the pledge to accomodate that.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, even if they tear the statue of the commmandments down does that mean the judge will stop ruling by them? I'm not saying it's right to hold a bias; for a judge or anyone. I know that I would feel horribly hopeless if I was tried by a judge who held their religious beliefs against me.
I don't think it matters whether it's up or down, the judge or jury could still be influenced by it.
I don't think freedom of speech has anything to do with it. In the U.S. we still have it, but people tend not to abide by it because of society. Somewhere along our line of history society decided that, say, this group can say this, but that group can't.
Most of the reason is,yes, our country was founded on christianity. For instance in India their country is based on hindu and that religion is everywhere. I wouldn't will them to give it up lightly and I don't expect the U.S will either.
I say; let them stay up because they've been up for a while without a fuss. I think people just want attention so they bring up something like this. Just give it a few days and it'll probably simm down

[Allanon]

quote:When I was a Christian I thought the same thing. Now that I am no longer one I see things differently. It has nothing to do with any hatred or dislike with Christianity.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Just to let those who might want to know, I just saw on the news that they removed the monument today.

The news also showed how different the commandments can be between the religions that use it. Like for the Jews, they said that the first commandment says nothing about "having no other gods" only "I am your Lord God that brought you out of Egypt", or something like that. The Christian divisions they showed all had the "no other gods" clause.

quote:Why is it so easy to find things to argue about and so hard to find ways to get along with each other!?

Well on a message board opposing views tend to keep it alive with discussion. For me nothing I post is intended to be taken as arguing. So I hope no takes my posts as such. I like to discuss issues, and sometimes I will bring up things just to make people think. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and I respect everyone for that. I hope I come off as such.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Sorry to bring this up again. I read an article about this in the paper today, and then I started thinking about the irony of the situation.

In the Christian Bible where the Ten Commandments are listed it states:

quote:
Exodus 20

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  

This is part of the longer version of the second commandment, a part which is usually left off of displays. But it clearly states not to have idols, or in other places and translations graven images. What about this monument that has brought up such controversy. Is it not being made into an idol by placing such importants on the physical object instead of placing concern on keeping the commandments? Which do you think God felt was important when these were written, the people following the commanments or the tablets that they were written on. It just seems ironic to me when here and throughout the Bible it is made clear not to place importance upon physical objects but on the spiritual and your actions, yet the issue is over a rock, a phycial object.

[Allanon]

quote:This is part of the longer version of the second commandment, a part which is usually left off of displays. But it clearly states not to have idols, or in other places and translations graven images. What about this monument that has brought up such controversy. Is it not being made into an idol by placing such importants on the physical object instead of placing concern on keeping the commandments? Which do you think God felt was important when these were written, the people following the commanments or the tablets that they were written on. It just seems ironic to me when here and throughout the Bible it is made clear not to place importance upon physical objects but on the spiritual and your actions, yet the issue is over a rock, a phycial object.

EXCELLENT REPLY. VERY GOOD POINT!!!! I HAD NOT THOUGH OF THAT. IT REALLY IS PUTTING THE STONE IN IMPORTANCE OVER FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!

[Tisha]

Funny, every time my boyfriend tries to trump my arguments against mixing religion and state by announcing "The country was founded on Christian principles" (which is actually kind of an ingorant thing to say, sorry) I remind him that the founding fathers were Masons.  Yes, they were occult practitioners.  Look at the occult imagery on the dollar bill!  Does that mean, following such warped logic, that the rest of us have to be masons?  Occultists?

Shuts him right up.  But then again he never wins a political argument with me.

By the way, the masonic lodge in D.C. is beautiful.  Next time you visit you can learn all about the "founding fathers!"

[Allanon]

quote:Funny, every time my boyfriend tries to trump my arguments against mixing religion and state by announcing "The country was founded on Christian principles"

This country WAS founded by Christians and this IS a Christian country at heart. You may choose to follow idols and worship nature but the fact remains that our President and most Presidents of this country throw thier hat in with Christ. Whether they follow the principles of the Bible to the best of thier abilities I do not know.

The promotion of freedom to worship as you please is fine but sooner or later people are going to realize that WE ALL need Christ.

[no_leaf_clover]

I've been following that story from our local news station, and all I can say is.... [}:)][xx(]

Hasn't the controversy around the commandments in that court been around for a while? I think the judge in question should resign and join the 700 Club.. If he was truly meant to be a judge, he would understand not everyone in America is Christian and not everyone in America would be comfortable with those commandments. He shouldn't taken the hint when it first became and issue and just taken it down instead of decided to be a hero for the church. The United States, unfortunately enough for this judge, has to recognize everyone's constitutional freedom of religion and right not to be alienated. I just thought I should share.

Your thoughts on this situation?